fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-03-23

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Mar 23, 2009Version comment
13 min read

[06:57:23 EDT(-0400)] * fj40001 (n=Jacob@142.150.154.106) has joined #fluid-work
[08:29:16 EDT(-0400)] * laurelw (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[08:35:42 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
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[10:38:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fj4000: can you take a look at 2367?
[10:38:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I put a comment as to what's still required
[10:38:47 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sure
[10:38:51 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> thx
[10:39:22 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> then perhaps we can review each other's commits for it
[10:45:43 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176132440.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[10:52:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark: so, with Valeries help, I think we have some FSS themes extensions for jquery UI theme
[10:52:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sorry - for jquery UI
[10:52:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: that's great!
[10:53:05 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yeah, I made a few over the weekend and she made another 3 today
[10:53:23 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so, im going to test them and see if they're implementable
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[10:58:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> very cool
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[11:00:33 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Does anyone have thoughts on what we should call the interm period between bug parade and code freeze, that will be used for restructuring svn, creating build scripts, and making sure there is consistency in the code for class names and such
[11:01:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: "Code Slush"?
[11:01:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> some suggestions are "consistency parade", "release polishing" and preferences... or suggestions
[11:01:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks... not bad
[11:02:37 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, will we be coordinating tasks the way we do in Bug Parade, with lists of issues to address?
[11:03:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i believe so... i'm pretty sure that all the issues are actually on bug parade.... the svn restructuring would be part of the build scripts issue, but these could be broken out to finer detail if you would like
[11:04:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> for example having a consistency updates by component
[11:04:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, then keeping the "parade" metaphor might be appropriate, just a different parade
[11:04:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so then "consistency parade" might be good
[11:04:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: makes sense
[11:05:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: I'm reviewing FLUID-2369, but I'm not sure what the correct behaviour is
[11:05:20 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> can you clarify what the "min text size" setting is supposed to do?
[11:05:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> does it set the font size, or the minimum font size?
[11:05:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I find the term "consistency parade" a bit weird
[11:06:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i sort of imagine everyone lining up very straight during a consistency parade
[11:07:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> like a military march
[11:07:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[11:08:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> LOL
[11:08:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hmm i guess there are three things we are doing, ensuring consistency, creating new build scripts, and re-factoring svn ... not sure how to capture this in a short phrase though...
[11:13:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled: is it ok if I just add a patch updating UI Enhancer with the class names I think belong in the class name map?
[11:13:53 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> for 2367
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[11:15:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[11:24:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: michelled is on a jQuery UI a11y call right now, but she'll be back later.
[11:24:31 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> thanks
[12:04:19 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: I've reviewed FLUID-2369 and commented in JIRA - I think michelled should have a look at the comments when she's back
[12:05:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: sure... just read it over... i'll make sure i talk to her about it
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[12:10:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> fj4000: just wondering if you've had a chance to make the necessary updates for these two issues 2321 and 2258, per their code reviews
[12:22:40 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> anastasiac: I commented on 2369. Thanks for the review (smile)
[12:22:56 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> this is what I said:
[12:22:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> Justin_o: comments have been linted
[12:23:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> It's not actually a default that the fix sets - at least, that wasn't my intention. My intention was to read the saved settings of the user and show them on the user interface. I think it would be fine to set a default for line spacing since there is a natural default of 1. The problem with setting a default for minimum text size is that it has side effects that we may not want. Setting a minimum text size is the user saying "I can't see anything sm
[12:24:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: what are we to deduce from the growth of the NEEDS REVIEW list?
[12:25:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: optimistically.... bugs are getting fixed... pessimistically... people don't have time to review them
[12:25:59 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> doh!
[12:26:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm, Justin_o: My interpretation has been both of the above.
[12:26:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's a sign we're stretched a little too thin.
[12:26:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hence the extension of bug parade by a day.
[12:26:22 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac has been going through the needs review list
[12:28:26 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> michelled, got it (and read the rest of it on the JIRA)
[12:28:41 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I can see the argument for no default
[12:28:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but I'm still not clear on the concept of minimum font size
[12:29:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> The sakai demo doesn't seem to be behaving reasonabley, and I don't know if that's a bug in UI Options, or in the demo integration
[12:29:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> what is it doing?
[12:29:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if you set the minimum font size to, say, 7pts, it actually reduces the size of everything
[12:30:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> even things that were larger than 7pts
[12:31:27 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, the implementation that fj4000 and I did, sets the base font to the minimum and then scales up from there where ever people have set an FSS class that uses a larger font
[12:31:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> do you have any ideas about a better implementation?
[12:31:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> not sure what's possible, technically
[12:32:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> is there any way in CSS to actually specify a minimum font size?
[12:32:40 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> no
[12:32:51 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> at least I don't know of a way
[12:32:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> forgive me if I don't know enough about how it works...
[12:32:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> do you fj4000?
[12:33:12 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm wondering: if we can't do something, perhaps we shouldn't be offering to do it?
[12:33:22 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 is just reading up
[12:33:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> well, this does do it for people who are using FSS
[12:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i feel like i should bring gatorade and towels to TO tomorrow...
[12:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Isn't the sakai demo using the FSS?
[12:34:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[12:34:14 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled anastasiac: no min font size rule, unfortunately
[12:34:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and there shouldn't be text on the page that is smaller then the minimum
[12:34:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> michelled, then why doesn't it do it for the sakai demo?
[12:34:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> is there text on the page that is smaller then the minimum?
[12:35:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> no - the problem I have is that text is being shrunk
[12:35:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> scaling, instead of clipping
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[12:35:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I thought anything that was already larger than the minimum is supposed to remain unchanged
[12:36:00 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> hmmm
[12:36:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> shall we meet in breeze?
[12:36:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fj4000?
[12:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> sure
[12:36:09 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> could I join you?
[12:36:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> please
[12:41:12 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Justin_o: On the bug parade, the fix for FLUID-2351, also includes fixes for FLUID-2324 and FLUID-1974, they all fell out of the same fix. I don't know if you want to list those as needing review or not. I'll make sure that I updated the JIRA's correctly.
[12:43:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ecochran: i think i marked them all together in the needs review section, just didn't put review beside the individual jira... i'll double check now
[12:43:54 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Justin_o: Oops, yep, you did. I just jumped right to my component! Human nature.
[12:45:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> totally understandable...
[12:45:40 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> fj4000 and Justin_o : I have reviewed fj4000 fix for FLUID-2359 and it looks good. I also propagated the same fix to the Image Gallery.
[12:46:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ecochran: that's great... thanks
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[14:11:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, FLUID-2369 is reviewed: +1
[14:13:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
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[14:41:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I have been talking to Bosmon about removing active descendent from the reorderer. I had been talking to the clown about the use of it and in what situations it is needed. Basically it seems that if we are moving focus from the container to the reordererable elements, then we should not be using active descendent.
[14:41:39 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Justin_o: that's correct. let me find a reference.
[14:41:47 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> clown: thanks
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[14:42:41 EDT(-0400)] <clown> this is a good overview: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#aria-activedescendant
[14:44:57 EDT(-0400)] <clown> this is a more complete description from the best practices guide. see, especially, the boxed text: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#focus_activedescendant
[14:46:22 EDT(-0400)] <clown> and...this says how to do the same thing without using active-descendant. I believe the lightbox/reorderer follows this latter technique: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#visualfocus
[14:47:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: ^
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[14:52:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Thanks for the pointers
[14:53:04 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Bosmon: my pleasure.
[14:53:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, clown, colinclark, and etc: I'm going to create a jira for this and add it to the bug parade
[14:53:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I am concerned that activedescendent would ever be viable.... since there seem to be no default semantics for mapping keyboard actions onto change of the descendent?
[14:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Why would a developer ever want to use this rather than genuine focus?
[14:54:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I've often wondered why this technique is recommended, and it's certainly one we avoid.
[14:54:36 EDT(-0400)] <clown> good question. I don't really see the reason (once you've thought about a long time and figured out all the ramifications).
[14:54:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[14:54:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Ah well
[14:54:52 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> There it is
[14:54:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> "These things are sent to try us"
[14:55:14 EDT(-0400)] <clown> anyone up to filing a "complaint" with "public-pfwg-comments"? This is the last call period, after all...
[14:55:19 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> clown mentioned to me that dojo doesn't use it either
[14:55:35 EDT(-0400)] <clown> that's correct, michelled
[14:56:00 EDT(-0400)] <clown> but, going through these specs/bpg, I noticed that they claim that dojo does use it...
[14:56:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Here's an interesting YUI blog post about the whole issue:
[14:56:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://yuiblog.com/blog/2009/02/23/managing-focus/
[14:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> glarg
[14:56:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Oh dear
[14:56:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The "Roaming Tabindex Technique"
[14:56:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Even the YUI guys recommend avoiding active descendent.
[14:56:46 EDT(-0400)] <clown> I can think of the reason that spawned it originally – I'm being very speculative – but it's way too much to type.
[14:56:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes
[14:57:35 EDT(-0400)] <clown> and, I'm off to a pfwg call in three minutes... ttfn
[14:57:49 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Here's another question... fj4000 just mentioned to me that IE 8 has gone final....
[14:58:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anyone have thoughts on supporting it for 1.0
[14:58:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> We could try it "opportunistically"
[14:58:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Have you been testing against the betas at all?
[14:58:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> meaning we support it if everything works
[14:59:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> not much... briefly a couple of times... but that was a month or so ago
[14:59:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[14:59:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> We support it if everything works (tongue)
[15:00:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i should make that a tag line on our browser support page... "If it works, we support it" (tongue)
[15:00:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> (smile)
[15:01:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ha
[15:01:19 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sounds good to me Justin_o
[15:01:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=75e6626d6eee4d44d3f5e4f9a26316b7
[15:01:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Perhaps we could buy a tagline from this guy
[15:01:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> 'You'd be "sane" to use our framework'
[15:01:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> (tongue)
[15:01:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: I've reviewed and commented on FLUID-2389: +1
[15:02:13 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[15:03:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "if you bought a human organ here, please bring it back"
[15:03:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we have one hour to gather a bag of live ants
[15:04:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[15:06:46 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> (smile)
[15:12:57 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran_> ?
[15:18:18 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> Just to continue a previous conversation about IE8's "accelerators" http://techie-buzz.com/ie8/ie8-web-accelerators.html
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[15:18:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> I think they're supposed to be like Office's smart tags
[15:33:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> "That functionality is clearly the product of a properly functioning mind!"
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[15:38:43 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o (and fj4000): I've reviewed FLUID-2380 (and commented in JIRA) and it looks good, but there are some commented lines that should probably be removed.
[15:39:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thanks... i'll reopen it
[15:41:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: did you have a chance to re-look at the two jiras from last week that needed updates about the comments... fj4000 has made the changes you were asking for
[15:41:48 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> uh, no, probably not, Justin_o, sorry - what were the numbers, again?
[15:42:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... i should probably have mentioned the numbers...
[15:42:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll go look them up now
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[16:00:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: 2321, 2258, and 2380 are ready for re-review
[16:02:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, thanks, I'll have a look
[16:03:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thank you
[16:07:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: FLUID-2321 looks good
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[16:09:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fj4000: I just committed a fix that included a few additions to the classname map in UI Enhancer. I needed to add them for a test I was writing. So you may want to update before working on 2367
[16:10:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[16:13:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled: sorry, got sidetracked! I will merge the two sets
[16:13:42 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> oh, did you already make a patch for this?
[16:13:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sorry - I can merge and commit if you'd like
[16:14:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled: Im not sure - I applied my patch locally, yet never committed it
[16:14:38 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so I will update after your commit
[16:14:44 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and then apply mine and commit that
[16:14:50 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if that sounds reasonable
[16:14:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I've already committed so you can go ahead
[16:14:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> thanks!
[16:16:51 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> cool
[16:16:59 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> looks like I only have a tiny amount to add
[16:17:16 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> your strategy for the wide wider widest is better than mine (tongue)
[16:17:24 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> widest super widest ultra widest
[16:17:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> just doesnt sound as good!
[16:22:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The Starbucks of width selection...
[16:35:21 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: FLUID-2258 has been reviewed: +1, but fj4000 should probably open a new JIRA about the issue that is still to be looked into eventually
[16:36:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay... i'll close this current one
[16:39:54 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, 2380 looks good
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[16:53:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: I finally resolved my magic bug 2223
[16:54:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> After reading through my commit messages I realize that I should have opened a few subissues while working on it
[16:54:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> by bad (sad)
[16:54:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I compared the files from before I started working on the issue to now and added a comment on the JIRA with a summary
[16:55:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'd really like it if you could code review this one.
[17:01:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Bosmo1: I'd like to add a 'for' attribute to my labels that are being rendered by the renderer. How do I get the id of the control I want to label?
[17:02:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> michelled: Don't worry about it - I will take care of that issue shortly
[17:02:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But the bottom line is you don't need to do it, it is taken care of by the renderer automatically
[17:02:20 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok, thx
[17:02:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it will be good to know how to do this.
[17:11:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon1: How is it done?
[17:11:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Ok, I'll try to review it tomorrow morning if that is ok.
[17:12:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fine - it might be easier if I'm there in person anyway.
[17:14:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[17:14:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: When will the renderer errors in UI Options come out of the build?
[17:14:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That bright pink, you know.
[17:14:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:15:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> those aren't errors. (smile)
[17:15:58 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> at least that's what I've been told
[17:16:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, they are suggestions at least
[17:16:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> All the same, they should probably come out (tongue)
[17:16:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[17:16:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: You just make sure the relations are correct in the template
[17:16:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> but probably when we're just about done everything for the release.
[17:16:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Ok, great.
[17:16:41 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> kinda like the change we make to fluid.fail
[17:16:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> right
[17:16:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: How does that happen?
[17:17:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Now I do wish that Javascript had "destructuring assignment"
[17:17:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Or maybe it is just a brain fever...
[17:17:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[17:17:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> How does what happen?
[17:17:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Making sure the relations are correct in the template.
[17:18:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well... you just write the template so it is correct?
[17:18:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That is, correctly labelled
[17:20:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Perhaps I will get used to writing Ruby...
[17:21:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I mean, if you can convince our partners it is what they want, I guess I am unlikely to object (tongue)
[17:21:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We will have to have some pretty ferocious coding guidelines though
[17:21:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> well, we have those now for javascript
[17:21:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It is very true
[17:21:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But I think it will be if anything, even harder to assemble those for Ruby
[17:22:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: I guess I'm asking for a concrete sense of what should be done. What is correctly labelled?
[17:22:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> can you paste me a slight bit of markup
[17:22:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ?
[17:22:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Looking at the language, it is less easy to tell good features from bad
[17:22:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I hope it won't take us 18 months like last time (tongue)
[17:22:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You exaggerate signficantly.
[17:22:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> OK
[17:22:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I think it was 15 months? (tongue)
[17:23:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[17:23:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we went with that-ism over a year ago!
[17:23:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> No, I don't think so
[17:24:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> You didn't come here till June
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[17:26:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, ok
[17:26:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i guess we didn't quite have that-ism for the first fearless javascript
[17:27:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We had proto-that-ism
[17:29:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> As for what Engage's users want, my sense is that they want something that works and is excellent.
[17:29:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We had decided that function scopes were a good idea, and that namespaces were a good idea... but we hadn't the "neo-Darwinian synthesis" (tongue)
[17:29:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:29:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> You CATT
[17:29:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, really.
[17:29:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Many of the museums we work with have limited, non-programmer IT staff in house.
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[17:30:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> People who are well served at the Infusion layer, so to speak.
[17:30:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In many cases, they'll hire contractors to help integrate our service layer with their content or collection management systems.
[17:30:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I guess we would generally by lying to them, if we told them they could continue to use any traditional PHP knowledge
[17:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'd like to think that our tendency towards declarative configuration will satisfy tinkerers without having to immerse themselves in lots of code and a framework, etc.
[17:32:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yes
[17:33:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> When you talk about "integrating our service layer", do you imagine that in many cases, we might simply point at their database layer?
[17:33:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Our Catalonian partners seem to be able to program in any language, so that's good.
[17:33:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That is good
[17:34:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: I'm sort of assuming that there's some process of adapting data from their database into a more "standard" form.
[17:35:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, I believe Dan has some kind of "gidgets" approach (tongue)
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