/
fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-03-17

fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-03-17

Mar 17, 2009

[00:41:17 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 (n=Jacob@142.150.154.106) has joined #fluid-work
[01:51:20 EDT(-0400)] * jayshao_ (n=jayshao@ool-45731411.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #fluid-work
[01:51:20 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[02:05:12 EDT(-0400)] * jayshao_ (n=jayshao@ool-45731411.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #fluid-work
[02:05:12 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[08:14:06 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[08:20:17 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:24:31 EDT(-0400)] * laurelw (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[08:25:34 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'Bug Parade! Only commit against these issues ( http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10129 )' set by Justin_o on 2009-03-17 08:25:34 EDT(-0400)
[09:02:32 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac (n=stasia@142.150.154.189) has joined #fluid-work
[09:38:19 EDT(-0400)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-71-232-3-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[09:40:23 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 (n=Jacob@142.150.154.106) has joined #fluid-work
[09:49:50 EDT(-0400)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[10:29:16 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=team@142.150.154.193) has joined #fluid-work
[11:07:22 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Justin_o: Could you add this issue to bug parade? It's a linting issue specific to UI Options. http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2346
[11:07:59 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> sure...do you mind if i make it a subtask of the general one
[11:08:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: ^
[11:08:21 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> not at all
[11:08:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> that makes sense
[11:09:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay... thanks... i'll add it now and send an update to the mailing list
[11:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> also, I came across a few issues that I was surprised weren't on bug parade. 2347, 2356, 2299, 2055
[11:09:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> let me double check those
[11:09:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> they don't have to be on but I wanted to draw your attention to them in case they somehow squeaked in under the radar
[11:11:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> 2347 should be there thanks
[11:11:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> 2299 is good one too
[11:11:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'm not sure about the other too though... and the last one may not be an issue any more now that the buttons have been changed... i'll have to double check that one
[11:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> thanks
[11:19:51 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[11:39:39 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dhcp-169-229-212-50.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[11:54:15 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens (n=sgithens@in-143-221.dhcp-149-166.iupui.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[12:19:44 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[12:35:19 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran_ (n=ecochran@dwin-wlan-402.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[12:50:22 EDT(-0400)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[13:13:39 EDT(-0400)] * Bosmon (n=Bosmon@142.150.154.149) has joined #fluid-work
[13:13:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> So
[13:14:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> THE KING has asked me to look at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2304 with Shy-Hammer
[13:14:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But I am not quite convinced what the scope of the issue is
[13:14:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> When we say, "The Image Reorderer".....
[13:14:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it means, when we are reordering images
[13:15:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> other things, in grids, likely don't apply
[13:15:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I mean, this is still a sort of pre-renderer component
[13:15:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes
[13:15:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> So, we have this contents of the ilfe "ImageReorderer.js"
[13:15:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> likely it's as simple as a set of pre-baked configuration options
[13:15:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Which looks like the sort of point we are targetting
[13:15:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[13:15:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But it doesn't seem to have a clear idea of any of these subcomponents, of the cell
[13:15:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I mean, it believes that there is an "a" tag in there
[13:16:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The main thumbnail div, I guess, equals the overall reorderable cell
[13:16:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But even that I am not quite clear about
[13:16:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: clown can walk you through these details, I believe.
[13:17:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> He had a fairly good sense of the issue.
[13:17:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> ok
[13:17:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I mean, in most cases, ARIA roles need to live in the realm of the implementation context...
[13:17:39 EDT(-0400)] <clown> that got my attention. "Shy-Hammer" didn't.
[13:17:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It is interesting to see how shabby this component looks without the capability to render.....
[13:17:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> meaning the most we're going to do is bake some options to make life easier for the user
[13:17:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Image Reorderer is really a prime candidate for the renderer.
[13:18:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Always has been.
[13:18:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> So, every time this "component" is used, it is supplied essentially a cut'n'paste version of the same markup
[13:18:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> On which, if we want to resolve this issue, we are going to have to impose at least some semantics...
[13:18:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> So, clown - we need to try to map these three targets onto some kind of selectors
[13:19:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Firstly - "main thumbnail div" - exactly which of the divs do we mean here?
[13:19:27 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Bosmon: "three targets" == ?
[13:19:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> We have three subjiras
[13:19:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Each one appears to be talking about a different part of the markup...
[13:19:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The Three Subjiras of the Apocalypse
[13:20:06 EDT(-0400)] <clown> three jiras, not three attributes. okay
[13:20:28 EDT(-0400)] <clown> actually, they are pretty much 1-to-1
[13:20:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: cut and paste with imposed semantics: yes, unfortunately
[13:21:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> <div rsf:id="scr=ignore" class="float orderable-default" id="gallery:::gallery-thumbs:::lightbox-cell:1:">
[13:21:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon>
[13:21:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> This one?
[13:21:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> <div class="image-inner-container">
[13:21:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> or this one
[13:22:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> or..... worse still, the other div in between them with no class?
[13:22:33 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Bosmon: an approach might be to go by the class attribute. So, what counts as a thumbnail from the CSS point of view?
[13:23:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I really have no idea....
[13:24:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Didn't you draw up this JIRA?
[13:24:18 EDT(-0400)] <clown> the aria spec says to use the "img" role on the element (frequently a div) that contains all the stuff that stands for a graphic, where "stuff" is any number of <img> eleements, a text caption, etc.
[13:24:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I assume for FLUID-2301, you mean the overall reorderable div
[13:24:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Since, that is the one I believe, that is currently getting the "gridcell" role
[13:26:05 EDT(-0400)] <clown> yeah, that's probably it. I understand the aria more than the fluid markup – it's been a long time since I looked at the latter. Let me look over an example – is the one on the demo site adequate?
[13:30:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> clown: it should be, yes
[13:31:58 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Bosmon, colinclark , okay. I'm seeing a title attribute on the "main" div that I'm guessing was used for screen readers. I think it's that div that gets @role="img". I'm no pondering whether to keep the title or not.
[13:32:16 EDT(-0400)] <clown> s/no pondering/now pondering/
[13:36:46 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> What would we do, without the title
[13:37:12 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dwin-wlan-402.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[13:37:44 EDT(-0400)] <clown> use "aria-labelledby". there is a rough example of how to do this markup under the "presentation" role. see http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#presentation
[13:38:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i've added the sub-task for that issue here http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2373
[13:39:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Awesome, thanks.
[13:39:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> np
[13:48:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon, clown: Here's how ARIA in jQuery UI works:
[13:48:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's an extension to jQuery's .attr() method in ui.core.js
[13:48:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> ok
[13:48:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So you can just do this...
[13:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It is nice to know, but, out of interest, how do you come to know this?
[13:49:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> To set a role: $(myTab).attr("role", "tab");
[13:49:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> To set a property or state: $(myTab).attr("aria-selected", true);
[13:49:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> As for how I know this, I'm not really sure.
[13:49:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon>
[13:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think I asked michelled, who helped write it.
[13:49:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then I think I looked at ui.core.js
[13:49:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It was only today that Justin_o actually showed me I had been doing it slightly wrong in Flutter.
[13:50:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So the above is correct, and Justin_o has unit tests to prove it.
[13:52:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: there is a problem with the assert that i should show you later though
[13:52:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: ok
[13:53:02 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dhcp-169-229-212-37.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[14:06:06 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> would anyone like to review FLUID-2321 ?
[14:40:18 EDT(-0400)] * apetro (n=apetro@ip68-3-207-51.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #fluid-work
[14:44:07 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[14:51:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: hello... do you have time for a quick chat
[14:51:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena> hey justin - does like about 10 min from now sound good? i'm finishing up a conference call
[14:53:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> sure... thanks... just let me know when you are free
[14:54:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> will do
[14:57:01 EDT(-0400)] <clown> Justin_o: just filed http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2376
[14:57:19 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> what did we decide about the class names? I know the prefix for finding things is 'flc' then there is a type, and subtypes as required. If I'm trying to find the minimum text size control is this a reasonable name? 'flc-min-text-size' or should I use underscores within the type like 'flc-min_text_size'?
[14:57:21 EDT(-0400)] <athena> ok, Justin_o, i'm all yours ):
[14:57:23 EDT(-0400)] <athena>
[14:57:25 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> clown: thanks
[14:57:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: thanks
[14:57:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark, fj4000 ^
[14:57:35 EDT(-0400)] <clown> wlcm
[14:57:49 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: i was just looking at that google bug with Bosmon
[14:57:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> irc makes my head spin
[14:58:00 EDT(-0400)] <athena> oh ok
[14:58:01 EDT(-0400)] <athena> awesome
[14:58:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena> for the record, i think we've managed to get around it now by going w/ the more recent google APIs
[14:58:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and i found the similar new API for the google maps a couple days ago
[14:58:28 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled: im not sure about the underscores
[14:58:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep... we have upgraded to jquery ui 1.7, and jquery 1.3.2 and it may be working
[14:58:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena> so if it turns out to be a huge pain to debug / fix, we'll live
[14:58:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> maybe we should just stick to dashes
[14:58:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> definitely dashes
[14:58:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: okay... glad to hear that things are getting better
[14:59:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: But you were asking more than that, weren't you?
[14:59:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> flc-min-text-size sounds reasonable
[14:59:21 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah - i don't know if it's a google-specific thing, or an error that could crop up with other content
[14:59:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: ok, cool
[14:59:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> would you not want to scope it a little more, maybe?
[14:59:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> no, it was basically a question of whether a type can have a dash
[14:59:59 EDT(-0400)] <athena> do you know much about what's going on there?
[15:00:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: oh
[15:00:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> why would I scope it more?
[15:00:14 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> wouldn't it get unweildy?
[15:00:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so you could recycle it more
[15:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> in my illustrious aesthetic opinion, dashes rule
[15:00:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yes, a little
[15:00:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> underscores suck
[15:00:25 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and their not valid
[15:00:28 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think
[15:00:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ruby will be so painful if we go with it for engage's services
[15:00:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> why
[15:00:48 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ?
[15:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> underscores everywhere
[15:00:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ohh
[15:01:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it_is_a_convention_to_name_methods_like_this(evil)
[15:01:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: not totally sure...
[15:01:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> eek
[15:01:41 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Justin_o: ok, well, keep me in the loop but i think we're doing ok for now at least
[15:01:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: okay... thanks
[15:01:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena> thank you!
[15:05:19 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fj4000, thanks for pointing me at the JIRA 2372
[15:05:42 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I will use flc-uioptions-text-min-size
[15:05:45 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if we adhere to this, I think ambiguity should be a non-issue
[15:05:54 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> very cool
[15:06:00 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> I can read that very easily
[16:19:20 EDT(-0400)] * apetro (n=apetro@ip68-3-207-51.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #fluid-work
[16:28:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Commit log quote of the day:
[16:28:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "AT LAST, it's the 1825 show"
[16:44:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: I can review 1825...
[16:45:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thank you
[16:45:11 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Bosmon has resolved it
[16:45:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i was just going to send an update on the bug parade asking for a review.. thanks
[17:00:00 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[17:07:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: I've reviewed 1825 and commented on the JIRA: looks good to me.
[17:12:38 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[17:29:01 EDT(-0400)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has left #fluid-work
[17:31:06 EDT(-0400)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-71-232-3-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[19:15:25 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[19:49:48 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dhcp-169-229-212-37.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has left #fluid-work
[20:26:02 EDT(-0400)] * JASIGLogBot2 (n=PircBot@jasig.Princeton.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[20:26:02 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'Bug Parade! Only commit against these issues ( http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&amp;requestId=10129 )' set by Justin_o on 2009-03-17 08:25:34 EDT(-0400)
[20:34:28 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[21:44:34 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[21:51:43 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work