fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-02-26

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Feb 26, 2009Version comment
8 min read

[08:02:05 EST(-0500)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[08:18:18 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:23:06 EST(-0500)] * laurelw (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[08:47:13 EST(-0500)] * justin_o (n=jmo@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[09:04:33 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176131712.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[09:05:53 EST(-0500)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-24-34-214-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[09:10:23 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[09:13:27 EST(-0500)] * justin_o_ (n=jmo@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[09:13:56 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has left #fluid-work
[09:48:55 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[10:18:55 EST(-0500)] * michelled (n=michelle@142.150.154.193) has joined #fluid-work
[10:57:43 EST(-0500)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[11:14:35 EST(-0500)] * michelled (n=team@142.150.154.193) has joined #fluid-work
[11:19:26 EST(-0500)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[11:31:34 EST(-0500)] * apetro (n=apetro@wsip-98-174-242-39.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #fluid-work
[11:40:02 EST(-0500)] <jessm> michelled: ping
[11:40:11 EST(-0500)] <michelled> hi jessm
[12:31:09 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 (n=Main@CPE00095bc35ea1-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[12:35:15 EST(-0500)] * fj40001 (n=Main@CPE00095bc35ea1-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[12:35:51 EST(-0500)] * fj40001 (n=Main@CPE00095bc35ea1-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[13:21:58 EST(-0500)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dhcp-169-229-212-17.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[13:28:18 EST(-0500)] * phiggins (n=dante@c-68-34-199-67.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[13:46:11 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 (n=Main@CPE00095bc35ea1-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[13:46:46 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> Does anyone know if our build process also makes a hosted version of Fluid-all.js?
[14:12:04 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[15:06:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> does anyone have a second to discuss Pager?
[15:43:58 EST(-0500)] <michelled> fj4000: in answer to your first question yes
[15:44:00 EST(-0500)] <michelled> http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/fluid-components/js/Fluid-all.js
[15:44:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> thanks a bunch
[15:44:22 EST(-0500)] <michelled> as far as pager goes - wouldn't Antranig be the best to talk to?
[15:44:26 EST(-0500)] <michelled> what did you need?
[15:44:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I could chat about Pager if it's something easy.
[15:44:45 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes, but he keeps appearnig/disappearing in my IM
[15:45:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Otherwise, Bosmon has apparently landed in Houston and will probably be available later today.
[15:45:07 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> colinclark: its easy, its just a question of goals
[15:45:09 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[15:45:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: I can do goals.
[15:45:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's my specialty. (wink)
[15:45:23 EST(-0500)] <michelled> CATT
[15:46:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I just want to know what is the Pager supposed to do to make my paging life easier? At first glance, it just seems to bind a function to pagination links (which I establish) and then creates the dynamic page numbers
[15:46:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> is there more going on that I cant see?
[15:47:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Yep.
[15:47:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> At this point, it provides you with a lot of help in rendering and managing data.
[15:47:54 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so what magic can Pager do?
[15:48:02 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ah, ok
[15:48:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So the idea is that, if you have a big blob of JSON data, you can tell the Pager how you want it to appear.
[15:48:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It will help you render the table, take care of state such as which items are selected, etc.
[15:48:26 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ok, so it can render grids then too?
[15:48:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Yep, exactly.
[15:48:35 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> thats excellent
[15:48:55 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> definitely need to discuss the tutorial more then with anastasiac
[15:49:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: If I had to guess, the Pager tutorial is probably out of date.
[15:49:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Pager has gone through a massive growth spurt in the past two releases.
[15:49:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> it really feels it, but I cant tell
[15:49:29 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I'm sure she'd be glad if someone updated it (wink)
[15:49:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Let me set you up with a good example...
[15:49:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> Im already on it
[15:49:59 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> michelled ^ , not colinclark
[15:50:08 EST(-0500)] <michelled> excellent (smile)
[15:50:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: This is the canonical example of the Pager at the moment...
[15:50:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/sample-code/pager/sakai-site-setting/site_setting_members.html
[15:51:25 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes, I worked on this with Bosmon
[15:51:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: And you can see how it's actually being used here:
[15:51:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/components/trunk/src/webapp/sample-code/pager/sakai-site-setting/js/site_setting_members.js
[15:51:38 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> but i couldnt tell where the Pager ended and custom events began
[15:51:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> awesome
[15:51:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Notice the columnDefs structure there in the code...
[15:52:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yuppers
[15:52:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> http://fluid.pastebin.com/f7e8546e4
[15:52:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's basically a little chunk of declarative stuff that sets up how the pager will render the table for you.
[15:53:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Each object inside that columnDefs array represents a column in the table.
[15:53:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And the valuebinding property defines a path into your data.
[15:53:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So for example, this line:
[15:53:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> valuebinding: "*.userDisplayName"
[15:54:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Says "for each row, render the userDisplayName property of my data into here."
[15:54:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The other options are pretty straightforward...
[15:54:28 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> right, but this is all relying on the renderer right?
[15:54:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Yep.
[15:54:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's what makes it awesome. (smile)
[15:54:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so, without it....
[15:54:58 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> its not the same
[15:56:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Well, it's a matter of expectation, I guess.
[15:57:02 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> So if I just have a very large table, and I want this to paginate it based on some options
[15:57:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The Pager certainly does work if you want to supply your own markup.
[15:57:18 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> its really not working all that Renderer magic
[15:57:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In that case though, you're agreeing to do more of the work.
[15:57:26 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> right
[15:57:35 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> which is what I was wondering, back to my original q
[15:57:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: I'm not sure I understand your point about "paginate it based on some options"
[15:57:50 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> i was following the tuts, and it seemed like I was doing the heavy lifitng
[15:57:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[15:58:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> tutorial is totally obsolete
[15:58:14 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ok, so re: the springboard for this
[15:58:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> the universal consensus on Pager was that it wouldn't be awesome until it did the rendering for you
[15:58:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so it does now
[15:58:28 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> does it make much sense to sell Pager without the Renderer?
[15:58:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Not really.
[15:58:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But that shouldn't have any impact on a Springboard, right?
[15:58:54 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> should the springboard, which is supposed to be super simple, show both?
[15:59:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It actually brings a Springboard closer to home... each Springboard is actually a valid template.
[15:59:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Hmm. Good question
[15:59:12 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> colinclark: it does, directly, I think
[15:59:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The Springboard undoubtedly should show the renderer version.
[15:59:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: What do you think?
[15:59:26 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes
[15:59:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> but both scenarios?
[15:59:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Is it worth showing a pure-markup version of Pager as a Springboard?
[15:59:42 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> or JUST pager + renederer
[15:59:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It seems unlikely that most people will care.
[15:59:51 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> exactly
[15:59:56 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I dont think it's worth it to show a pure markup version
[16:00:05 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ok, so this is what I was wondering
[16:00:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> and it should be a disclaimer
[16:00:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Fair enough. Let's just go with a renderer version.
[16:00:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Disclaimer?
[16:00:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> b/c I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out how this is doing heavy lifting for me
[16:00:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> when really, i wasnt using it properly
[16:00:55 EST(-0500)] <michelled> perhaps in the short term a warning on the tutorial is in order
[16:00:59 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> colinclark: ok, pager+renderer it is
[16:01:10 EST(-0500)] <michelled> colinclark, fj4000, Justin_o: I have a naming question for you. I'm turning 'Skin.js' into a fluid component and I really don't think that 'fluid.skin' says enough about what's going on here. It has so far only caused confusion so I really want to change it. The legacy name is StyleAble. How do you feel about 'fluid.styleAble'?
[16:01:15 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> warning seems strong - hence the caveat/disclaimer
[16:02:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled, fj4000: Yeah, let's put a comment at the top of the tutorial saying "Full renderer support has been added to the Pager. This tutorial describes a more complex scenario where you supply your own markup to the Pager. Look for a new tutorial in time for Infusion 1.0"
[16:02:37 EST(-0500)] <michelled> sounds good
[16:02:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: Wow, you've got the first case I've ever seen of natural CamelCase in a component name.
[16:02:45 EST(-0500)] <michelled> ha
[16:02:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Looks kind of funny as .styelAble(), doesn't it?
[16:02:50 EST(-0500)] <michelled> yes
[16:02:54 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> a little
[16:03:05 EST(-0500)] <michelled> fluid.styleable?
[16:03:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yet if I saw a method called fluid.styleable(), I'd think it was something totally different.
[16:03:19 EST(-0500)] <michelled> should it have a different name?
[16:03:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> perhaps
[16:03:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I always liked the name StyleAble a lot.
[16:03:37 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> fluid.style?
[16:03:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Again, I'd guess that it did something different.
[16:03:49 EST(-0500)] <michelled> to put this in context, integrators of UI Options would need to call it on every page they render with the user's preferences
[16:03:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> What does this component do?
[16:03:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: ^
[16:04:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> (I mean, I know what it does, but it's good to hear it articulated succinctly)
[16:05:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled> it takes the preferences that were set in UI Options and alters the page according to the preferences. But it does go beyond styling as it can also insert a table of contents.
[16:05:18 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ohh
[16:06:21 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has left #fluid-work
[16:10:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So far fluid.uiTransformer() is my vote.
[16:10:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Since it's job is to transform UIs.
[16:10:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: I really wanted to call it fluid.optimusPrime()
[16:10:59 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I like that because it's clear and it also links to fluid.uiOptions
[16:11:01 EST(-0500)] * phiggins (n=dante@c-68-34-199-67.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[16:11:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Any other suggestions?
[16:11:36 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> fluid.autoBot()?
[16:11:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[16:12:03 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 is very much looking forward to Transformers 2
[16:12:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: got anything better than fluid.uiTransformer()
[16:12:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> >
[16:12:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ?
[16:12:25 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> fluid.uiEnhance()?
[16:12:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's a thing, rather than single function
[16:12:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> uiEnhancer(), I guess?
[16:12:48 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> right right
[16:12:56 EST(-0500)] <michelled> that could work
[16:12:58 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> poor grammer on my part
[16:13:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> both make sense, although "transformer" is a little ambiguous
[16:13:46 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> it sounds like it could do anything (which could be technically true)
[16:14:18 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> they both seem adequate
[16:14:42 EST(-0500)] * laurelw (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has left #fluid-work
[16:17:29 EST(-0500)] <michelled> enhancer is shorter
[16:17:45 EST(-0500)] <michelled> colinclark - you good with 'fluid.uiEnhancer'?
[16:18:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it seems a bit...
[16:18:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> wimpy?
[16:18:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> i dunno
[16:18:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think it's cool.
[16:18:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)
[16:18:50 EST(-0500)] <michelled> well all robots don't have to be violent (tongue)
[16:22:56 EST(-0500)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-24-34-214-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[16:28:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Hey fj4000...
[16:28:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Does FSS do right/left-aligned forms out of the box?
[16:28:31 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ya
[16:28:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> form nodes?
[16:28:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> or form controls?
[16:29:03 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> b/c it does both (tongue)
[16:29:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I think I need some clarification ....
[16:29:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> form labels with controls
[16:29:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so where you have the labels aligned right
[16:29:38 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes - Im not sure if it 0.8 thought
[16:29:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> lemme see
[16:29:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> and the form controls aligned left beside them
[16:29:51 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ^^
[16:30:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so, there is a mechanism to nicely align form controls: .fl-controls-XXXX
[16:31:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> needs to be used on a list container
[16:31:38 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> there is the control, and its label. The alignment happens on the label, forcing the control to move too
[16:31:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so each form element should be nested inside an <li>?
[16:31:47 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> i think so, yes
[16:31:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so you end up with a list of controls
[16:31:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> or label-form pair inside an <li>?
[16:32:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> eg.
[16:32:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> <li><label>Foo</label> <input type="text" /></li>
[16:32:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ?
[16:32:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> or two different lists, one with the labels and one with the forms?
[16:32:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> <ul class="fl-controls-right"><li><thing class="fl-label"><input /> </li>
[16:33:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> and the labels in a separate list?
[16:33:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> no wait
[16:33:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> <thing> is the label?
[16:33:20 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> no, the labels behave similarly to classic <labels>
[16:33:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes
[16:33:33 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> but not necessarilly a <label> el
[16:33:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> can <thing> actually be a label tag?
[16:33:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> it could be a span, etc
[16:33:45 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> sure
[16:33:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> great
[16:33:47 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> it should
[16:33:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> sweet
[16:33:55 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> unless you have a reason not to
[16:34:18 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so in the end, an example looks like:
[16:34:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> <ul class="fl-controls-center">
[16:34:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> <li><label class="fl-label"><input type="" /></li>
[16:35:12 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> and that pattern should have a center aligned set of labels and controls
[16:36:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I love the FSS
[16:45:22 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> (smile)
[17:18:44 EST(-0500)] * michelled (n=team@142.150.154.193) has left #fluid-work
[17:52:11 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@142.150.154.101) has left #fluid-work
[20:26:13 EST(-0500)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-69-153.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fluid-work
[20:35:01 EST(-0500)] * phiggins (n=dante@c-68-34-199-67.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work