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fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-02-10

fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-02-10

Feb 10, 2009

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[08:11:00 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:11:31 EST(-0500)] * Topic is '1 day to bug parade!' set by Justin_o on 2009-02-10 08:11:31 EST(-0500)
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[12:30:13 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I take it that the Pause bug is still present in b5?
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[13:46:08 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I'm back. I had to run to a meeting.
[13:46:32 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: would it make sense for me to set up b5 on my server for you to test or are you getting set up
[13:46:38 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: hi... i'm just having some trouble getting the server version running on my machine
[13:46:39 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure
[13:46:41 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> if you could
[13:46:56 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> OK, i think that it'll take me 15 min or so
[13:47:15 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I have to do a couple of other little things
[13:47:17 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay thanks... that's a lot faster than the 3 days it's been taking me
[13:49:38 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> eli.. when you set it up, could you please turn off the progressive enhancements for ie using flash 9... i want to make sure that it is in fact now working for ie on the server too
[13:49:44 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> using flash 9
[13:49:53 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I saw that mention on the list the other day
[13:50:30 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's a nice improvement if it works
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[13:53:31 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: there is a little chatter on the SWFUpload forum that b5 may have some configuration problems with Mac OS X. I'll check that quickly once I set up the server
[13:53:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: Configuration problems?
[13:54:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> interesting
[13:54:30 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> well.. saddening if it is true
[13:54:49 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark: well, the person posting says that the Flash component is having problems in the paths are relative
[13:55:04 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> this may be chatter from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about
[13:55:29 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> But giffy's response was telling: "Unfortunately we (the developers) don't have the equipment for testing on OS X."
[13:56:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> urg
[13:56:31 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark and Justin_o: OK, I'm going to go configure my server for b5
[13:57:13 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: thanks
[13:57:56 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark and Justin_o : here is the thread: http://swfupload.org/forum/generaldiscussion/1240
[13:58:14 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I could not run the b5 demos yesterday from demo.swfupload.org
[13:58:22 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> from my Mac
[13:58:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> didn't try Windows
[13:58:39 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> might do that after my server is running
[13:59:02 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i checked out the demos before but i don't have f10 on my mac
[14:00:13 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> just checked it with flash 10 using Win Vista and they work
[14:09:20 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: the demos worked for you using Flash 9? That was my set up and the demo would start uploading and never come back.
[14:09:50 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> what do you mean... start uploading and never come back
[14:10:36 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark: In a previous chat you said to comment out line 28 in SWFUploadManager.js. I did that but I'm still getting the Flash 9 code
[14:10:46 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> what am I doing wrong
[14:10:49 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> ?
[14:11:15 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: in uploader.js there is a check for the version of flash and ie
[14:11:17 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark: ignore... I see it
[14:11:55 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: this page is working for me http://demo.swfupload.org/v220beta5/applicationdemo/index.php
[14:12:16 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I'll look at it later... that was not the page that was failing for me
[14:12:33 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I was looking at the new timing code only so maybe this is a red herring
[14:12:52 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> don't spend any more time on it until I can get this server working
[14:13:14 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> yep...
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[14:17:38 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: almost there
[14:18:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: thanks
[14:22:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I'm slightly confused, maybe you can help.
[14:22:34 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac listens
[14:22:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'd like to take a look at the Pager site-setting-members.html file in my browser, preferably straight from the build server.
[14:23:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it lives inside sample-code/pager/sakai-site-setting
[14:23:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Is the whole sample-code directory deployed to tomcat?
[14:23:55 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes
[14:23:58 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm able to view it
[14:24:01 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/sample-code/pager/sakai-site-setting/site_setting_members.html
[14:24:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: urg
[14:24:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> typo
[14:24:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Thanks, dude.
[14:24:24 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac>
[14:24:26 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> np
[14:24:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm an idiot.
[14:24:43 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac>
[14:26:07 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o and colinclark : a bit of advice. I just updated the swf on my server and it passes a smoke test with FF3/Mac... but now I'm thinking that I should replace the swfupload.js file as well
[14:26:11 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> thoughts?
[14:26:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: What do you mean?
[14:27:31 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I only updated the .swf on my server (which appears to work), I left the new swfupload.js at b3
[14:27:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> smoke test = it works but I haven't beaten on it
[14:29:34 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> for my local tests i only changed the swf file too... do we modify swfupload.js at all?
[14:30:07 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> we do, but mostly to work around some of the bugs that we've discovered
[14:30:49 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> hmm... so you're curious to know if those bugs have been fixed to, thus negating our need for the work arounds
[14:30:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> definitely worth testing with the b5 version of both the javascript and the swf
[14:31:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it's a fairly inaccurate test without doing so
[14:31:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> in that case you will definitely have to comment out line 28 of swfuploadmanager.js
[14:31:18 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Ok, I'm going to drop it in
[14:31:23 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> already commented out
[14:31:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> great
[14:35:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: http://169.229.212.23:8080/sakai-imagegallery2-web/site/BrowseImages/
[14:36:01 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> see if that works for you
[14:36:18 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay thanks
[14:40:18 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran, colinclark: looks like the pause bug is still there
[14:41:15 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: yeah, I'm seeing it too. I think that the behavior is a little different... I'm trying to tease it out. But this tells me what I need to do next.
[14:41:26 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: what configuration did you test?
[14:41:42 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> that was on vista wth f10 using ff3 and ie7
[14:41:49 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm going to test ie6 in f9 now
[14:43:01 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I just did IE6 WITH FLASH 10
[14:43:07 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> sorry didn't mean to shout
[14:43:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o>
[14:43:38 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's working in IE6 with flash 9... has the pause bug there too
[14:46:38 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I'm having a very hard time getting the Pause bug to happen in FF3 on Win XP
[14:46:46 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> But I may just not have hit it right
[14:47:05 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> usually I can get it everytime, but I haven't gotten it to happen once yet
[14:47:27 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i got it to happen with ff2... i'll try ff3 in a minute... trying to find some more images
[14:48:04 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> got it
[14:48:12 EST(-0500)] <ecochran>
[14:48:23 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> sigh!
[14:49:45 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's happening in opera too... i'm guessing it's still everywhere
[14:50:19 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> other than that it seems to be working okay though
[14:50:37 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I concur
[14:50:41 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: do you remember what the work arounds were for in the swfupload.js file
[14:52:00 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> yes,
[14:52:03 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> 1. we set the default name of the swf file since we renamed it so we could use f9 and f10
[14:52:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> 2. We made a minor change to the Stop Upload code so that it would accept only two args instead of 3 since the F9 code only passed 2
[14:53:02 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> ... one moment.. I want to consult the code
[14:55:53 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay thanks
[14:57:36 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: looks like we added in some other code to make sure that we could use the same file for f9 and f10 that also makes changes to how args are passed
[14:58:10 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> but since we're now using the same swf for both f9 and f10 with b5, these changes are moot
[14:58:35 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. so it was really only changes for naming
[14:58:49 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: no, not completely
[14:59:17 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> it was just as much that the 2.2.0 SWF had a different way of handling args
[14:59:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm trying to think if there is something in particular that we should test, to ensure that we don't need those changes anymore
[15:00:05 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I don't think so based on my perusal of the code but perhaps the eminent colinclark has another idea
[15:00:31 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I mean aside from the usual exhaustive test suite
[15:00:45 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Would you like me to leave my server up for a bit for you to do more testing?
[15:00:50 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: ^
[15:01:03 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I'm going off to a meeting for an hour
[15:01:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> one sec
[15:01:32 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> then I'll be back to write the Pause bug mitigation code
[15:01:38 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark: I'll wait
[15:01:38 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure.. thanks
[15:04:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: I should tell you that what I have on my server at the moment doesn't do any graceful enhancement... I was a bit cavalier to get this test up. (He says sheepishly)
[15:04:46 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> or I should say, it only does graceful enhancement
[15:05:04 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I'll put that back once we decide whether we're going to go with b5
[15:05:15 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> which at this point, I think looks really good
[15:05:40 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ecochran: i thought that's what you did... and it is good to test so that we can see if it works in places that it didn't before...
[15:06:05 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> it does look like it is better... i used it in ie with flash 9 so that issue looks like its gone
[15:07:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, just catching up
[15:07:10 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Justin_o: yes, but it should still degrade correctly if the Flash version < 9 which right now it ignores
[15:07:26 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> ah yes...
[15:07:56 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I can only wait a couple more minutes before I will be missed
[15:08:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran, Justin_o: I think you've got it.
[15:08:48 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> thanks guys
[15:08:56 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> thank you
[15:09:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> If file removal doesn't freak out, and if selecting files is looking awesome in both Flash 9 and 10, we're good to toss our modifications to swfupload.js
[15:09:37 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark and Justin_o: oh, file removal... I haven't looked at that yet
[15:09:59 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i did a bit... but i'll do some more tests
[15:10:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> A nice side effect will be to significantly simplify our swfupload setup decorator, since there will be a bit less Flash 9-specific setup required.
[15:10:09 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> OK, I'm going to go to my meeting. I'll catch up on this thread when I get back
[15:10:19 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. talk to you later
[15:10:21 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> looks like as of now we're going to be going with b5
[15:11:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> that's good news
[15:12:27 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm going to do some more testing on the demo version with the swfupload.js file changed....
[15:12:59 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: does the swfupload.js change which type of button is used?
[15:13:26 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i.e. flash or html to call the OS File Open dialog
[15:14:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Nope, that's in our code.
[15:14:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's handled by the swfupload setup decorator I wrote
[15:14:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> which lives in swfuploadmanager.js
[15:14:41 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> oh okay.... that's good...
[15:15:10 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i was afraid we would lose keyboard accessibility in flash 9 if we changed swfupload.js...
[15:15:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> thankfully not
[15:16:35 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> yes
[15:26:14 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i'm trying to change the swfupload file... i'm getting this error though when i try to open the demo version of uploader uncaught exception: Could not find the placeholder element:
[15:26:32 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> "uncaught exception: Could not find the placeholder element:"
[15:26:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> one sec
[15:26:45 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure
[15:31:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Sorry about that.
[15:31:39 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> no problem...
[15:31:46 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> maybe i should tell you what i did
[15:31:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It looks to me like the component isn't getting set up properly.
[15:32:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> There is this property in the Uploader's options called "decorators"
[15:32:23 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay
[15:32:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> which is designed to offer a hook for any additional functionality that might be needed on the Uploader
[15:32:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Things that are very specific, for example that need to set up the DOM for a particular kind of upload manager.
[15:33:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So in our case, we've got the fluid.swfUploadSetupDecorator, which is responsible for setting up the DOM and the component correctly based on the version of Flash you are running.
[15:33:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah, wait
[15:33:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> As I explain this, I'm realizing the problem.
[15:33:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I hate SWFUpload, just in case you were ever wondering
[15:34:05 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> don't worry.. i'm sure you're not alone
[15:34:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The Flash movie is requiring us specify this placeholder element
[15:34:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> even though it is completely irrelevant for Flash 9
[15:34:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> lemme just take a look at the code
[15:34:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> tell me, in the meantime, what you did
[15:35:44 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure... so basically i grabbed the beta 5 release... replaced the swfupload.js and added swfupload.swf
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[15:36:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Ok.
[15:36:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Are you doing this on your mac?
[15:37:01 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> in SWFUploadManager i commented out line 28, and changed the flashURLs to both point to swfupload.swf
[15:37:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hmm
[15:37:08 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> yes... on the mac
[15:37:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> swfupload seems to be doing something strange
[15:37:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i just noticed a second place where swfupload_f9 is mentioned
[15:37:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> do you want to screen share real quick and i'll take a look?
[15:37:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> with ichat?
[15:37:44 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure... let me see if i have it set up...
[15:37:55 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i have a google talk account...that should work right?
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[17:03:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: Did you actually deploy the Uploader with the new swfupload.js?
[17:04:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin and I ran into a weird problem with it.
[17:04:12 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> yep
[17:04:18 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> what's the problem
[17:04:19 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> ?
[17:04:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I still have it up and running if you guys want to compare
[17:05:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Were you hacking around with any of the code in swfuploadmanager.js?
[17:05:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In short, Gyphie seems to have changed how the code works.
[17:05:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It now insists on replacing a placeholder element, even in Flash 9.
[17:05:52 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I commented out line ... 28
[17:05:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's it?
[17:06:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Can you fire me that URL?
[17:06:48 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> and I commented out the code that does the setupForFlash9 conditional check... line 129
[17:07:06 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> http://169.229.212.23:8080/sakai-imagegallery2-web/site/AddImages/
[17:07:24 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I made some changes to Uploader.js too
[17:07:44 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> just to ignore the progressive enhancement stuff
[17:08:12 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> so that we could see if bugs were fixed
[17:10:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> can you do a diff on your copy of swfuploadmanager.js?
[17:10:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Something's up here.
[17:10:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm using Flash 9 on my machine, yet I'm getting the Flash 10 configuration...
[17:10:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> diff with what's checked in?
[17:10:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah, just double check what you changed
[17:11:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In Flash 9 I should get the pure DHTML button, but in your version I'm getting the image button.
[17:11:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Any chance you changed the option for flashButtonPeerId?
[17:12:41 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> as I said, commented out line 28, and removed the conditional on line 129 so that we only call setupForFlash10
[17:12:51 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> no other changes
[17:13:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Aha
[17:13:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> you didn't comment out line 129
[17:13:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> you removed this if statement?
[17:14:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Is it the case that your version is always falling into the setupForFlash10() method?
[17:14:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: ^
[17:15:18 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> yes
[17:15:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, that'll do it.
[17:16:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We still don't want to set up for Flash 10 if we're using Flash 9.
[17:16:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Not quite sure why you removed that conditional.
[17:16:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So that covered over the issue Justin and I saw.
[17:16:50 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I thought that's what I needed to do to only use one version of the swf
[17:17:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> All you have to do is change the flash9URL and flash10URLs to point to the same URL.
[17:17:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's why we offered those configuration options.
[17:17:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We still expect that Flash 9 users should get the same happy experience they always had...
[17:17:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> including proper accessibility support.
[17:18:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyway, Gyphie's now assuming that you're always going to replace some bit of DOM with the Flash movie itself.
[17:18:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> He removed all the Flash 9-friendly code that used to quietly drop the <object> tag for the movie into a hidden <div> at the bottom of the page.
[17:19:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It looks like we can pretty much reproduce that in our own code, but were seeing errors in FF3 with his cleanup code as a result.
[17:20:05 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> bummer
[17:20:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[17:21:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I can see how he would only want to support one behavior, makes coding and testing simpler
[17:22:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure, if he wants to drop support for Flash 9.
[17:22:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And any hope for accessibility while he's at it.
[17:22:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Which is totally fine. Just tell us!
[17:23:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> It's the accessibility issue that's really at the heart of it, doesn't the new code still work with Flash 9, it just works in the Flash 10 way
[17:24:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: Sure, but it's not really just the accessibility issue.
[17:24:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's that we were all quite content to use pure DHTML UIs in Flash 9.
[17:24:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But he removed that feature completely, requiring Flash 9 users to also use the graphical buttons
[17:24:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And all the associated lameness that this brings with it.
[17:25:05 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> colinclark: true but we can be pretty assured that Flash 9 will disappear pretty quickly
[17:25:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Not so sure about that. I haven't seen the numbers, but there's not a lot pushing people to upgrade.
[17:27:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran: As of December, Flash 10 market share was still hovering at around 50% according to Adobe.
[17:27:20 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> 50% is pretty good considering when it came out
[17:27:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure, but it probably reflects a sizable portion of the people who will upgrade.
[17:27:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Until they get new computers.
[17:28:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyway, it really doesn't matter very much.
[17:28:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's just good to know these things before you upgrade.
[17:28:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And now we do.
[17:28:49 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> yes
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