fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-07-28

[08:46:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark, michelled: I'm wondering about the way we are providing rhino for our build
[08:47:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> So i started thinking about this a bit yesterday when i was setting it up on my machine..
[08:47:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> what if someone wants to use our build system, but is using rhino for something else on their machien
[08:47:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> machine
[08:47:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> with any
[08:47:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> any
[08:47:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> ant
[08:47:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> since we are making them remove it, and then calling our own in the build script
[08:48:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I think this is a good time to talk about it, since it seems that I have to fix ant on our daily build server
[08:49:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> and I'm not sure if this will in turn break our current instance of the builder
[08:57:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure there is really a good way to handle this, Justin_o
[08:58:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Other than to say that Java sort of sucks for these kinds of problems without jumping through some serious classloading hoops
[08:58:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You're right that, to use the Infusion build, we're asking people to disable the version of Rhino that ships with Ant, which they may already be using for other builds
[08:58:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The alternative would be to have them manually upgrade that version of Ant
[08:58:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which might be better
[08:59:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but, given the issues between 1.6 and 1.7 of Rhino, might also cause some other problems
[08:59:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Did you have a particular proposal in mind, as an alternative?
[08:59:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess, whatever we do, we'll have to manually make sure Ant is the way it should be
[08:59:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: not yet.. wanted to talk about the options first
[08:59:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm trying to think of other options
[08:59:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> any suggestions?
[09:00:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: is there no way to tell ant to use the version of rhino we ship instead of the one in the lib directory.. without having to remove that one
[09:00:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's quite unlikely
[09:00:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ant will automatically load the jars in its lib folder
[09:01:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> since those are the jars it considers necessary to satisfy its own dependencies
[09:02:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Meaning, by the time we're in the land of Antish XML, everything in lib has been loaded
[09:02:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess I should triple check that
[09:02:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay.. thanks
[09:02:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it's sensible, anyway
[09:02:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess we should explore the other option
[09:03:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Do we just want to blast the Ant-installed version of Rhino and replace it with 1.7R3
[09:03:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ?
[09:03:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess the reverse is toxic...
[09:03:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in other words, Rhino 1.6 will actively cause some valid JS code to break
[09:03:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> whereas we probably don't know of anything where the reverse is the case
[09:03:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Do you think that's correct?
[09:03:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: seems so, yes
[09:04:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, do you think it's preferable to do the latter?
[09:04:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: what would the latter be... telling people to upgrade?
[09:04:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, having them replace the Ant-installed Rhino 1.6 with a downloaded copy of 1.7R3
[09:05:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think i'd lean to this option
[09:05:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What's your rationale, Justin_o?
[09:05:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (I think you're probably right, for the record )
[09:07:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah, we may have one other alternative, Justin_o...
[09:07:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> If I read the "Library Directories" section here correctly http://ant.apache.org/manual/running.html
[09:07:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ANT_HOME/lib is actually scanned last
[09:08:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which means we can position our Rhino to be victorious without overriding the one that ships with Ant
[09:08:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not that it makes any difference
[09:08:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> because it will still be global
[09:11:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Okay, so this works, if it's preferable to you
[09:12:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We could ask users to install the various Rhino-related dependencies into ~/.ant/lib
[09:12:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and our versions will be loaded first
[09:12:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the question then becomes, how do they get these jars?
[09:12:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Do we just give them URLs to download Rhino 1.7R3, the BSF, and Commons logging?
[09:17:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sorry.. was off working with harriswong for a minute.. just catching up
[09:20:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: so i guess we could do that.. it wouldn't be too much different than what we had been asking people to do
[09:20:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> although it's a bit more work
[09:25:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What do you think we should do, Justin_o?
[09:26:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I'd go with your last suggestion i think.. it would probably be the least likely to cause breakage for a users other builds
[09:27:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Okay, so I guess the second question..
[09:27:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How should the user get the requisite jars?
[09:27:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Keep them in the distro and ask them to move 'em around
[09:27:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or ask them to go download them
[09:27:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or write some Mavenism?
[09:28:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i figure since this is likely a do once operation that I'd rather not carry them around in the distribution
[09:29:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I suppose Mavenism would be the nicest solution, but i'm not sure it's worth the effort if we're aiming to switch off of ant/maven
[09:29:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, I'm pretty reticent to write more Maven
[09:29:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think, with our war distro deprecated, that we're on the cusp of just tossing it entirely
[09:29:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so adding a new dependency wouldnt be super wise
[09:30:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm going to hop on the subway but we can make a final call when I'm back in the channel
[09:30:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or you can make an executive decision
[10:05:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> hey huslage , jessm have we set up a mailing list for the IDI (to be linked on website) ?
[10:06:10 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Justin_o: do we have a 1.4 test plan page yet?
[10:08:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> mlam: you mean a testing task list?
[10:08:29 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> yah
[10:08:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i still have to make one
[10:08:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: we have an idi-work but nothing specific for IDI other than that
[10:09:00 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> oh ok. i'm ready for testing now
[10:09:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: speaking of idi-work.. i think i might have fallen off the list some how.. i haven't gotten any e-mails from there in a while, and I know that I missed a bunch that were going around
[10:10:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jessm the IDI mailing list for the site will be different than idi-work ?
[10:10:39 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: not sure just now
[10:10:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[10:12:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> mlam: i'll try to fill that out now
[10:20:44 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ok, cool thanks Justin_o
[10:28:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> gonna miss stand up - dry wall delivery happening. i'm working on finishing up the theming for the IDI wordpress site so next week we can focus on getting the content in / starting to get the wiki styled
[11:04:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hey, heidi_, is your drywall all unloaded yet?
[11:04:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac yep!
[11:04:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yay!
[11:05:17 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, maybe you can help me: I'm trying to use the Myriad Pro font, and my machine doesn't seem to have it. Is that normal? Have you ever used that font?
[11:06:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac i believe the handbook site and the inclusivedesign.ca site both use it
[11:06:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i was looking at both yesterday to see if they were doing that font file thing, but didn't notice anything special
[11:07:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> interesting, heidi_... on my machine, inclusivedesign.ca reverts to one of the other specified fonts
[11:07:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah
[11:08:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, does your computer have that font already? are you on a mac?
[11:09:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac it works for me so maybe? i am on a mac. looking at the css more closely...
[11:09:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i thought i remembered adding font files. jameswy do you remember how we did that?
[11:09:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I tested it by using Firebug to modify the font face style to replace all of the "fallback" styles with monospace - and the page turned to monospace
[11:11:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac yeah that makes sense. i wonder why i have myriad and you don't... hmm
[11:11:55 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> odd...
[11:12:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac i thought jameswy and i did a site where we did something like this: http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/fdc-varia/font-embedding.htm
[11:13:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> can't recall tho... maybe we didn't end up doing that
[11:13:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> but sounds like maybe we should add the font file for myriad
[11:13:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> for these sites
[11:13:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I'm using that technique for some other fonts jameswy has given me, but I was expecting Myriad Pro to be included. I'll check with jameswy
[11:14:13 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[11:21:15 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: hi I need your opinion on something have you got a few secs?
[11:21:27 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana, sure
[11:21:52 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> thx I have a scrubber in my controller to change the time of a video
[11:22:13 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> this is slightly more complicated than the other elements so I created a subcomponent
[11:22:35 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> however I'm hesitating on how I should do it
[11:23:20 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I mean should I create the element in the main component and then turn it into a jquery slider in the subComponent
[11:24:02 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> or keep the main container (for the controller and create it inside)
[11:24:18 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: I'm not sure I'm really comprehensible....
[11:25:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "create the element", but... it sounds like your controller is actually a collection of controls (e.g. play, pause), one of which is the scrubber. If so, then the scrubber would be a subcomponent of the controller, and be within the controller container.
[11:25:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> does that make any sense? am I understanding your question correctly, lahabana?
[11:26:18 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> hmm yes partly
[11:27:08 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> my question is more where should I create the "<div>" (for eg) in the component or the subcomponent
[11:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> here's my code if that can help
[11:28:02 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> https://github.com/lahabana/videoPlayer/blob/FLUID-4297/js/VideoPlayer_controllers.js#L1-183
[11:28:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, ok, hm... Well, if it's the scrubber itself that has particular markup, the scrubber itself should create it. Imagine if you some day wanted to replace your scrubber subcomponent with a completely different subcomponent - you want it to be "self-contained"
[11:28:20 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> (even if it doesn't work ftm)
[11:28:51 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: ho yes that's true
[11:29:43 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> so I have another question then how will I control where to put the scrubber in the html of the controller
[11:29:55 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I mean for the rest I've got a template
[11:30:32 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> in the markup for the controller, you just put a single element (such as an empty div) that will be the container where the scrubber is inserted - conceptually, it's a marker saying "Insert Scrubber Here"
[11:31:11 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> does that make sense, lahabana?
[11:31:37 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> hmm yes I think with as a class the selector for the scrubber?
[11:31:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right
[11:32:27 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: ok thx other question about a thing that happened to me several times and never understood why
[11:33:03 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> when using the renderer sometimes 2 elements that are simblings become parent and child...
[11:33:05 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> why that?
[11:33:24 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I guess I did something wrong but I never understood what was wrong
[11:33:39 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana: hm. I don't know. What kind of elements does this happen with?
[11:33:58 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> div mainly
[11:34:17 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> for eg I had playButton and then captionButton
[11:34:24 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hm
[11:34:36 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> sounds like there might be something slightly off in your component tree? I don't know
[11:34:39 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and after rendered it was captionButton who became child of playButton
[11:34:43 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> odd
[11:34:56 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I have to go right now, lahabana, but I can have a look later today or tomorrow
[11:35:01 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: ok doesn't matter I solved the problem by accident
[11:35:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> oh, good
[11:35:15 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: ok see you later
[11:35:18 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> bye
[11:35:23 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and thx for your help
[11:35:27 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> np
[12:01:58 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> cindyli: Hi can you help me a little bit with the renderer?
[12:02:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> sure, lahabana
[12:02:33 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> well It's still what I was talking with anastasiac earlier
[12:02:45 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> let me catch up
[12:02:57 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I'll explain you briefly
[12:03:19 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I've got a rendererComponent that makes some controllers
[12:03:29 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and one of them is a scrubber (slider)
[12:03:46 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> this is not dealt by the renderer but by a subComponent
[12:04:12 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> my problem is that the scrubber is well created etc
[12:04:47 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> but when I launch the video (and consequently make some modelChange and refreshView) my scrubber is just removed
[12:04:54 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> from the html mark up
[12:05:02 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and I don't really understand why
[12:05:16 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> cause it's not part of my prototree
[12:05:28 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> https://github.com/lahabana/videoPlayer/blob/FLUID-4297/js/VideoPlayer_controllers.js#L20-183 here is the code if you want to have a look
[12:05:50 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and my template https://github.com/lahabana/videoPlayer/blob/FLUID-4297/html/controller_template.html
[12:11:12 CDT(-0500)]