fluid-work IRC Logs-2013-04-12

[00:04:31 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon!

[02:56:26 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: (big grin)

[02:56:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> NERDDD

[04:10:33 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: !!!!

[06:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> hello guys

[06:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> any mentors around here?

[06:48:40 CDT(-0500)] <Ra___> elyas_bhy which project are you looking for?

[06:52:06 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> Ra___: Tecla & tagin!

[06:54:57 CDT(-0500)] <Ra___> Ok! I dont know who coordinates for those projects however I knew coordinators for the Storyboarder project and they are not here currently...

[06:56:04 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> Ra___: alright, thanks anyway!

[08:11:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: which jira were you working on for the styling stuff again?

[08:12:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: never mind, i found it

[08:12:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> FLUID-4970

[08:12:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k

[08:12:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: I'm working on getting the last styling issues sorted out. Not sure if I will have much time to do font icon testing today.

[08:13:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: no problem

[08:20:39 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> avtar: ping

[08:24:13 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> jessm: hey

[08:24:30 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> would you like to start?

[08:25:13 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yeah, why don't you and i start and if colin shows up we'll include him

[08:25:43 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> sounds good

[08:50:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: do we have a document where we ar summarizing our font icon testing?

[08:51:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah, that wiki page Justin_o

[08:52:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay, thanks

[08:52:08 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Research+the+viability+of+using+icon+fonts+in+UI+Options

[10:58:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i have the link to the google doc on the wiki page, and have finished voiceover testing of the ligature fonts with safari

[10:58:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm going to try it with PUA fonts next

[10:58:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> great Justin_o

[11:18:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: wrapped up the voiceover testing.. PUA's aren't read by it..

[11:18:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> could be a good option for presentational font icons.. will continue with another platform

[11:18:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k

[11:25:28 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> hello jhung!

[11:27:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Hi Ra__

[11:27:59 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I thought if we could discuss the idea further.. what are your thoughts about the email?..

[11:28:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'm taking a look at your email now. (smile) Thanks for the reminder.

[11:29:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Ah. I see now. Very interesting concept Ra__!

[11:30:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I like how you would be able to see what was before and what is next.

[11:30:44 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Ohh Thanks! I thought you did not reply as you might have liked it!.. (tongue)

[11:31:10 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> not*

[11:31:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> It looks very promising. I'd love to see you explore different designs but with the same idea.

[11:32:35 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I thought maybe I could get some inputs from you so that the idea can be improved further..

[11:32:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> i.e. how will it look on a mobile device? How would it behave if the video player is embedded amoung other content (i.e. a wiki page or educational content).

[11:34:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Ra__ I'm happy to give feedback. At the same time, I'm interested in seeing your ideas since you may come up with ideas I wouldn't think of.

[11:34:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ^which is a good thing. (smile)

[11:36:27 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Yes jhung! I think that would be good... your feedback would really help me a lot..

[11:38:51 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> In the mean time while I improve my design, I would want to do some coding excercises related to this project since that is the main focus of Gsoc..

[11:39:16 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> can you point to the right direction here?..

[11:40:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sure Ra__. I think it's important that enough time be spent on exploring different design ideas and fleshing out what the user's interaction will be like. In the past, the most successful GSoC projects are the ones which had good designs.

[11:40:56 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> There will always be time for code. (big grin)

[11:42:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> If you've hit a point where you would like to start exploring code, I can send you some resources. At that point I think Justin_o would be able to give you more assistance regarding code (he's a developer, and I'm a designer).

[11:44:14 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Its great that you feel that way jhung! I believe in the same.. good design is a more important thing.. (smile)

[11:45:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Awesome! So I think next would be to come up with some other designs and then maybe we can chat about them.

[11:47:39 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I think I should start exploring code... some atleast... since I have some exams before the application deadline... it would be better for me to manage my time during the exams..

[11:48:41 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> In the mean time I'll work on the design and will get back to you...

[11:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sure. If you want to look at some code, take a look at our implementation of the Fluid Video player. How we handle Transcripts will probably be relvant to this work.

[11:50:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: some things you might want to look at in some order would be 1) using the Fluid Infusion framework, since the application you create would be expected to use it. 2) determining how to obtain the screen grabs from the video in the browser

[11:53:18 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Sure jhung! that helps a lot... I'll take a look..

[11:53:59 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Justin_o, what do you mean by screen grabs exactly?..

[11:54:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: the stills from the video file

[11:54:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> not screen captures from the users system

[11:55:55 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Yes that would be necessary... apart from that can you tell me any specific examples I should see while looking at the Fluid Infusion Framework?

[12:14:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: you might want to take a look at this documentation http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Tutorial+-+Getting+started+with+Infusion

[12:16:37 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Hello colinclark!

[12:18:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey system64!

[12:19:39 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Would it be good time to trouble you with few queries related to WebRTC Project? (smile)

[12:19:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> sure

[12:20:45 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Justin_o Thanks! I'll go through that.. (smile)

[12:21:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: great, let us know if you have any questions about it

[12:31:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> system64: I've got time to answer questions whenever you want

[12:31:30 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I was thinking if we could use third party libraries for video conference part of the app?

[12:31:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure

[12:31:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which libraries are you considering?

[12:31:58 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I was looking into simplewebrtc.js

[12:32:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the biggest requirements, from my perspective are: 1. Make it accessible, and 2. Use Infusion

[12:32:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think simplewebrtc.js is a very good place to start

[12:32:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they also have a Node.js-based server to go with it

[12:32:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> seems like a reasonable approach to me

[12:32:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think you may find, over time, that you'll want to build something more sophisticated than simplewebrtc.js, but you can do that incrementally

[12:34:11 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I think with simplewebrtc it's going to be really easy to setup the video conference part of the app? What are the thing you think should be good for the app?

[12:34:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, I think agree, system64

[12:34:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "I think agree," that is

[12:34:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> simplewebrtc seems like a nice way to bootstrap the video conferencing part of the application

[12:35:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Beyond that, I imagine the focus will be to integrate other collaboration features (such as, perhaps, Etherpad) and to make sure it provides a really nice accessible experience

[12:35:20 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Sorry, I meant to ask about other features that should be good for the app?

[12:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In the best case scenario, it might be great to have 1) chat, 2) web site sharing and 3) document collaboration

[12:36:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You'd have to research whether there are decent HTML5-based accessible chat tools out there, or tools that can be made more accessible

[12:36:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> For #2, I imagine that people might want to share a URL with everyone in the group

[12:36:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and have it visible in a panel or iFrame alongside the chat

[12:37:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> #3 would involve integration with EtherPad or Google Docs or perhaps even a code editor

[12:37:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the key would be to create a pluggable architecture where it is relatively easy to integrate different collaboration tools with the core video conferencing application

[12:37:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Does that make sense?

[12:37:46 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I think with something like socket.io chat is going to be relatively easy to implement.

[12:37:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes, that's right

[12:38:01 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Yes, that should be good.

[12:38:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You'll need to familiarize yourself with ARIA live regions for an accessible chat UI

[12:38:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm happy to leave it open for you to decide exactly which features you think are most important, and you can articulate that in your project proposal

[12:38:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but this seems really exciting!

[12:39:17 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Yeah! I'm excited too, always loved working with cutting edge web technologies. This is going to be fun (smile)

[12:40:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: which branch of yours should I be pulling from to get the latest changes?

[12:41:32 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Would it be good idea to integrate with social networks? Maybe for getting user information and inviting other collaborators.

[12:41:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That sounds like a pretty cool idea to me, system64

[12:42:57 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I think going for Node.js might be a good option then. It would make sense to have just one backend for the application.

[12:43:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, definitely

[12:43:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We've been doing a lot of work with Node.js recently

[12:44:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and even have a growing server-side framework that we have dubbed "Kettle" for Node.js, which is complementary to Infusion

[12:49:22 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Is it ported to Node.js?

[12:49:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[12:49:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's being developed as part of our GPII project

[12:49:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen, who is often here, is leading that work along with Bosmon

[12:50:02 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Nice! Is it on Github?

[12:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yup

[12:50:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> At the moment it doesn't yet have it's own repository, and it's mostly undocumented

[12:50:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it's located here: https://github.com/GPII/universal/tree/master/gpii/node_modules/gpiiFramework

[12:50:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen has written a bit of documentation here: http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Configuration

[12:51:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It sounds as if it's specific to the GPII, but in fact it's mostly generally applicable to any app that uses Kettle

[12:51:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's built on top of Express

[12:51:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and, as you can imagine, is still very raw

[12:52:03 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I was about to ask how is it different from Express? (smile)

[12:52:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The idea is to make it easier to write loosely-coupled servers

[12:52:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> by creating Infusion components and using the Inversion of Control framework

[12:53:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So that it is easier to test, extend, and grow your server over time

[12:53:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen or Bosmon can tell you all about it whenever they're around (probably later in the afternoon)

[13:09:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: If you do get a few spare moments today, I'd appreciate it if you could look at the architecture document I wrote last night and share your thoughts: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Preferences+for+Global+Access+Architecture

[13:09:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> No pressure, since I know you're busy. But I'm curious to see if it resonates with your impression of the architectural work we're currently doing on UI Options.

[14:16:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i read that this morning.. it looked good

[14:16:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: actually i think i understand things better now having read it (smile)

[14:29:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: I've pushed up my changed to FLUID-4970. I pulled down your 4728-b changes and I'm still having problems in IE8 and IE9

[14:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: what were the problems there?

[14:31:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> The hide/show panel button doesn't work in IE

[14:31:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hmm.. i don't know what's up with that

[14:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> there's an error. Let me get it...

[14:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that should be working in our FLUID-4927-b unless something just broke

[14:31:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay

[14:34:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: Expected identifier, string, or number

[14:34:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> FatPanelUIOptions.js, line 141, char 21

[14:34:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: hmm.. that's a bit vague sorry..

[14:34:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay i can check the line number, thanks

[14:34:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ty

[14:35:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i think my line numbers might be different from yours, can you let me know what shows up there for you

[14:35:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: ^

[14:36:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hold on...

[14:38:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: openetherpad.org/QGpBNHjGTB

[14:39:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: that's strange..

[14:40:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'd probably have to debug that.. don't know what's going on there

[14:41:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Does IE8 / IE9 work with your branch?

[14:41:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ^justin_o

[14:41:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i know cindy's was.. i'll try mine now

[14:41:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ok

[14:43:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: looks like my IE9 autoupdated to IE10, but it works

[14:43:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hey Justin_o

[14:43:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> How did you get on with your jquery binder?

[14:44:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: did you want to look at it in my branch.. it will make it's way into our pull request, but cindy isn't in today so can't be merged there

[14:44:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Sure, Justin_o

[14:44:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Where is it?

[14:44:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: https://github.com/jobara/infusion/commit/1303f387a78dbdf6ff146103e71d2229337ed63d

[14:44:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thanks

[14:45:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o: That seems like a very reasonable implementation, other than the name : P

[14:46:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i was thinking there might be some issues with the name..do you have a recommendation for something better?

[14:48:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i just realized i forgot to remove the console log (sad)

[14:48:17 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> eyo colinclark

[14:48:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i wonder if that console log is causing an issue for you in IE8

[14:48:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - that's a good question.... there's an interesting issue about whether it either does do, or should do, the same as jQuery.bind ....

[14:49:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As it stands, you could say that it is both more general and more comprehensible than jQuery.bind itself since it "does exactly what it says on the tin" as we apparently now say here in the UK

[14:49:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: that's a new term

[14:49:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> for me

[14:50:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Does_exactly_what_it_says_on_the_tin

[14:50:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Amazingly this phrase now has its own Wikipedia page : P

[14:50:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: (smile)

[14:52:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> The phrase is a registered trademark

[14:52:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, we should be careful how to use it

[14:52:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - what do you think about naming the function as "fluid.bind", putting it in Fluid.js, and removing the first line of its code

[14:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The IoC references system already manages the responsibility of ensuring that the first argument would be a jQuery

[14:53:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And the behaviour of this code is really more general - it will bind on to "any this-ist function"

[14:58:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> clown: Is this the latest version of the ARIA style guide? http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide/

[14:58:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey thealphanerd!

[14:58:50 CDT(-0500)] <clown> colinclark: yes and no. (smile)

[14:59:10 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> so David Zicarelli expressed some interest in flocking

[14:59:32 CDT(-0500)] <clown> yes: it is the latest version. no: all of that was absorbed into the ARIA Authoring Practices Guide a few years ago. That has been modified/improved since.

[14:59:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, good to know

[15:00:03 CDT(-0500)] <clown> cool

[15:00:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> do you have a link handy to that, clown

[15:00:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: Cool!

[15:00:19 CDT(-0500)] <clown> just a second colinclark

[15:01:12 CDT(-0500)] <clown> colinclark: start here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/Overview.html#aria_ex Thereafter, each pattern has a table, and in that table is the keystroke suggestions.

[15:02:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool, thanks!

[15:02:34 CDT(-0500)] <clown> poor grammar: "the table contains the keystroke suggestions".

[15:02:40 CDT(-0500)] <clown> colinclark: wlcm.

[15:06:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: What did Zicarelli say?

[15:06:24 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> well we talked about current max research

[15:06:47 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> and they are working on one project that will make max able to run in the browser

[15:07:03 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> so they are interested in technologies they could leverage to use web audio api

[15:07:21 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> OH

[15:07:29 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I also found an interested paper by miller puckette

[15:07:36 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> abotu how the scheduler was implemented in max

[15:07:41 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> if you want me to pass that along to you

[15:11:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes please

[15:11:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark, Justin_o - do either of you remember where the PHP package is for testing the Uploader live?

[15:11:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I don't seem to be finding it

[15:11:44 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: you have access to jstor right?

[15:11:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: http://build.fluidproject.org/uploader/hourly/image-gallery.php

[15:12:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah, the "image gallery"!

[15:12:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In another of its million incarnations : P

[15:12:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I currently have an article open by Puckette in Preview right now, but haven't had a chance to read it, thealphanerd

[15:12:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thanks, Justin_o

[15:12:39 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> http://www.jstor.org/stable/3680766

[15:12:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - I had a naming suggestion above

[15:12:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "Combining event and signal processing in the MAX Graphical Programming Environment"

[15:13:04 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> This is from the same issue of computer music journal

[15:13:05 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> LOL

[15:13:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The Flocking scheduler is going to kick ass

[15:13:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> as soon as I get this writing done and can go back to working on code

[15:13:27 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> the article you have open is about how max works

[15:13:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: also i'll try to move the function to fluid.bind, but will have to do it monday probably

[15:13:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm going to do a big sprint to get a Flocking 0.1 release out prior to the SuperCollider conference

[15:13:36 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> the article I just linekd you is specifically about the scheduler

[15:13:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool, thanks so much, thealphanerd!

[15:13:51 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> no prob

[15:13:54 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> its from 1991

[15:14:04 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> so it may not be the most useful

[15:14:33 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> but considering his inspirations came from RTSKED who knows

[15:14:54 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> which was from 81

[15:17:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that's great

[15:17:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> tell Zicarelli that I'm happy to chat with him if has any questions or thoughts

[15:21:36 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> awesome

[15:21:51 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> looks like cycling might be interested in having me work with them this summer

[15:21:58 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> in which case I would 100% be in for GSOC as well

[15:22:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[15:22:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you know the procedure in terms of applying and all that

[15:22:27 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, can I double-check something with you regarding context names in a demands block? Can a context name be a component member name (as opposed to the fully-namespaced component type name)?

[15:23:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> anastasiac - yes, that was always possible, and is still possible

[15:23:32 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, thanks Bosmon

[15:24:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: removed the console log, you can try it again now maybe that was the problem

[15:25:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm heading out now though, have a good weekend

[16:08:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Urgh

[16:08:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I found it

[16:08:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark, this is pretty funny : P

[16:08:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I found this in the image-gallery.js driving code:

[16:08:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> oh oh

[16:08:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> onUploadStart: {

[16:08:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> event: "onUploadStart"

[16:08:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> }

[16:08:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> oh dear

[16:08:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, it's fine... just unexpectedly perverse : P

[16:09:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, I guess it's not really fine

[16:09:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In general I think we prohibit boiling an event to itself.... for our reasons of "referential transparency"

[16:10:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Either the event has already been instantiated or it hasn't

[16:10:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> why did I boil it like this?

[16:10:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Did you write it?

[16:10:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It was probably a typo

[16:10:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, I'd guess that the comment at the top of the block is mine, yes

[16:11:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The earlier two boilings are reasonable, and as described by the comment

[16:11:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> actually, maybe not

[16:11:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This must be just some stray material

[16:11:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which the previous framework didn't object to, since it had no gingerness

[16:12:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, I got to improve our diagnostics a bit further in any case

[16:12:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> There will now be a new log level named TRACE which will dump every "activity record" to the console as it is reached

[16:13:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This is generally detailed enough to catch even these cases of circular recursion

[16:13:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it might be that the best answer to this is already implement circularity detection for the ginger algorithm

[16:13:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That so far was left as a "future exercise", but I guess will start tripping on these cases more and more

[16:14:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But I wonder if you have any ideas about what algorithm we should actually use, in order to determine which flavour of Uploader to instantiate?

[16:15:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks for adding the additional logging

[16:16:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I still don't understand your question

[16:16:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I mean, there was some kind of algorithm to determine this

[16:16:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> And I believe the process is something to the effect of

[16:16:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, but as you suggested in the private chat, it was essentially operating "randomly" : P

[16:16:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I was being flippant

[16:16:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. If we find FormData, use the HTML5 flavour

[16:16:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, I think it wasn't wholly inaccurate (smile)

[16:16:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but how is that possible?

[16:17:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I know that at some point I built this algorithm into it

[16:17:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well right now the only basis that the IoC system has for resolving between demands blocks is by counting them

[16:17:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. If we find Flash, use the Flash flavour

[16:17:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> otherwise, fall back

[16:17:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah no, you're right

[16:18:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The progressiveCheckerForComponent is ORDERED....

[16:18:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[16:18:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok, phew

[16:18:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So assuming I can fix this recursion bug, it should just "start working"....

[16:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[16:19:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, i need to run to help darcie get ready for Fish's birthday dinner

[16:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh yes!

[16:19:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Have a great time, "you all"

[16:19:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks!

[16:19:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> have a good weekend, dude