fluid-work IRC Logs-2013-04-12

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Last updated: Apr 12, 2013Version comment

[00:04:31 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon!

[02:56:26 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: (big grin)

[02:56:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> NERDDD

[04:10:33 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: !!!!

[06:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> hello guys

[06:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> any mentors around here?

[06:48:40 CDT(-0500)] <Ra___> elyas_bhy which project are you looking for?

[06:52:06 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> Ra___: Tecla & tagin!

[06:54:57 CDT(-0500)] <Ra___> Ok! I dont know who coordinates for those projects however I knew coordinators for the Storyboarder project and they are not here currently...

[06:56:04 CDT(-0500)] <elyas_bhy> Ra___: alright, thanks anyway!

[08:11:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: which jira were you working on for the styling stuff again?

[08:12:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: never mind, i found it

[08:12:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> FLUID-4970

[08:12:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k

[08:12:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: I'm working on getting the last styling issues sorted out. Not sure if I will have much time to do font icon testing today.

[08:13:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: no problem

[08:20:39 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> avtar: ping

[08:24:13 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> jessm: hey

[08:24:30 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> would you like to start?

[08:25:13 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yeah, why don't you and i start and if colin shows up we'll include him

[08:25:43 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> sounds good

[08:50:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: do we have a document where we ar summarizing our font icon testing?

[08:51:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah, that wiki page Justin_o

[08:52:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay, thanks

[08:52:08 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Research+the+viability+of+using+icon+fonts+in+UI+Options

[10:58:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i have the link to the google doc on the wiki page, and have finished voiceover testing of the ligature fonts with safari

[10:58:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm going to try it with PUA fonts next

[10:58:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> great Justin_o

[11:18:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: wrapped up the voiceover testing.. PUA's aren't read by it..

[11:18:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> could be a good option for presentational font icons.. will continue with another platform

[11:18:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k

[11:25:28 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> hello jhung!

[11:27:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Hi Ra__

[11:27:59 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I thought if we could discuss the idea further.. what are your thoughts about the email?..

[11:28:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'm taking a look at your email now. (smile) Thanks for the reminder.

[11:29:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Ah. I see now. Very interesting concept Ra__!

[11:30:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I like how you would be able to see what was before and what is next.

[11:30:44 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Ohh Thanks! I thought you did not reply as you might have liked it!.. (tongue)

[11:31:10 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> not*

[11:31:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> It looks very promising. I'd love to see you explore different designs but with the same idea.

[11:32:35 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I thought maybe I could get some inputs from you so that the idea can be improved further..

[11:32:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> i.e. how will it look on a mobile device? How would it behave if the video player is embedded amoung other content (i.e. a wiki page or educational content).

[11:34:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Ra__ I'm happy to give feedback. At the same time, I'm interested in seeing your ideas since you may come up with ideas I wouldn't think of.

[11:34:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ^which is a good thing. (smile)

[11:36:27 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Yes jhung! I think that would be good... your feedback would really help me a lot..

[11:38:51 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> In the mean time while I improve my design, I would want to do some coding excercises related to this project since that is the main focus of Gsoc..

[11:39:16 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> can you point to the right direction here?..

[11:40:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sure Ra__. I think it's important that enough time be spent on exploring different design ideas and fleshing out what the user's interaction will be like. In the past, the most successful GSoC projects are the ones which had good designs.

[11:40:56 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> There will always be time for code. (big grin)

[11:42:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> If you've hit a point where you would like to start exploring code, I can send you some resources. At that point I think Justin_o would be able to give you more assistance regarding code (he's a developer, and I'm a designer).

[11:44:14 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Its great that you feel that way jhung! I believe in the same.. good design is a more important thing.. (smile)

[11:45:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Awesome! So I think next would be to come up with some other designs and then maybe we can chat about them.

[11:47:39 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> I think I should start exploring code... some atleast... since I have some exams before the application deadline... it would be better for me to manage my time during the exams..

[11:48:41 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> In the mean time I'll work on the design and will get back to you...

[11:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sure. If you want to look at some code, take a look at our implementation of the Fluid Video player. How we handle Transcripts will probably be relvant to this work.

[11:50:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: some things you might want to look at in some order would be 1) using the Fluid Infusion framework, since the application you create would be expected to use it. 2) determining how to obtain the screen grabs from the video in the browser

[11:53:18 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Sure jhung! that helps a lot... I'll take a look..

[11:53:59 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Justin_o, what do you mean by screen grabs exactly?..

[11:54:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: the stills from the video file

[11:54:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> not screen captures from the users system

[11:55:55 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Yes that would be necessary... apart from that can you tell me any specific examples I should see while looking at the Fluid Infusion Framework?

[12:14:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: you might want to take a look at this documentation http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Tutorial+-+Getting+started+with+Infusion

[12:16:37 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Hello colinclark!

[12:18:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey system64!

[12:19:39 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Would it be good time to trouble you with few queries related to WebRTC Project? (smile)

[12:19:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> sure

[12:20:45 CDT(-0500)] <Ra__> Justin_o Thanks! I'll go through that.. (smile)

[12:21:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Ra__: great, let us know if you have any questions about it

[12:31:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> system64: I've got time to answer questions whenever you want

[12:31:30 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I was thinking if we could use third party libraries for video conference part of the app?

[12:31:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure

[12:31:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which libraries are you considering?

[12:31:58 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I was looking into simplewebrtc.js

[12:32:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the biggest requirements, from my perspective are: 1. Make it accessible, and 2. Use Infusion

[12:32:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think simplewebrtc.js is a very good place to start

[12:32:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they also have a Node.js-based server to go with it

[12:32:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> seems like a reasonable approach to me

[12:32:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think you may find, over time, that you'll want to build something more sophisticated than simplewebrtc.js, but you can do that incrementally

[12:34:11 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: I think with simplewebrtc it's going to be really easy to setup the video conference part of the app? What are the thing you think should be good for the app?

[12:34:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, I think agree, system64

[12:34:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "I think agree," that is

[12:34:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> simplewebrtc seems like a nice way to bootstrap the video conferencing part of the application

[12:35:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Beyond that, I imagine the focus will be to integrate other collaboration features (such as, perhaps, Etherpad) and to make sure it provides a really nice accessible experience

[12:35:20 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Sorry, I meant to ask about other features that should be good for the app?

[12:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In the best case scenario, it might be great to have 1) chat, 2) web site sharing and 3) document collaboration

[12:36:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You'd have to research whether there are decent HTML5-based accessible chat tools out there, or tools that can be made more accessible

[12:36:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> For #2, I imagine that people might want to share a URL with everyone in the group

[12:36:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and have it visible in a panel or iFrame alongside the chat

[12:37:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> #3 would involve integration with EtherPad or Google Docs or perhaps even a code editor

[12:37:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the key would be to create a pluggable architecture where it is relatively easy to integrate different collaboration tools with the core video conferencing application

[12:37:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Does that make sense?

[12:37:46 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I think with something like socket.io chat is going to be relatively easy to implement.

[12:37:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes, that's right

[12:38:01 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Yes, that should be good.

[12:38:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You'll need to familiarize yourself with ARIA live regions for an accessible chat UI

[12:38:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm happy to leave it open for you to decide exactly which features you think are most important, and you can articulate that in your project proposal

[12:38:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but this seems really exciting!

[12:39:17 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Yeah! I'm excited too, always loved working with cutting edge web technologies. This is going to be fun (smile)

[12:40:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: which branch of yours should I be pulling from to get the latest changes?

[12:41:32 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Would it be good idea to integrate with social networks? Maybe for getting user information and inviting other collaborators.

[12:41:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That sounds like a pretty cool idea to me, system64

[12:42:57 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I think going for Node.js might be a good option then. It would make sense to have just one backend for the application.

[12:43:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, definitely

[12:43:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We've been doing a lot of work with Node.js recently

[12:44:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and even have a growing server-side framework that we have dubbed "Kettle" for Node.js, which is complementary to Infusion

[12:49:22 CDT(-0500)] <system64> colinclark: Is it ported to Node.js?

[12:49:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[12:49:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's being developed as part of our GPII project

[12:49:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen, who is often here, is leading that work along with Bosmon

[12:50:02 CDT(-0500)] <system64> Nice! Is it on Github?

[12:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yup

[12:50:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> At the moment it doesn't yet have it's own repository, and it's mostly undocumented

[12:50:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it's located here: https://github.com/GPII/universal/tree/master/gpii/node_modules/gpiiFramework

[12:50:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen has written a bit of documentation here: http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Configuration

[12:51:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It sounds as if it's specific to the GPII, but in fact it's mostly generally applicable to any app that uses Kettle

[12:51:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's built on top of Express

[12:51:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and, as you can imagine, is still very raw

[12:52:03 CDT(-0500)] <system64> I was about to ask how is it different from Express? (smile)

[12:52:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The idea is to make it easier to write loosely-coupled servers

[12:52:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> by creating Infusion components and using the Inversion of Control framework

[12:53:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So that it is easier to test, extend, and grow your server over time

[12:53:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen or Bosmon can tell you all about it whenever they're around (probably later in the afternoon)

[13:09:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: If you do get a few spare moments today, I'd appreciate it if you could look at the architecture document I wrote last night and share your thoughts: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Preferences+for+Global+Access+Architecture

[13:09:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> No pressure, since I know you're busy. But I'm curious to see if it resonates with your impression of the architectural work we're currently doing on UI Options.

[14:16:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i read that this morning.. it looked good

[14:16:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: actually i think i understand things better now having read it (smile)

[14:29:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: I've pushed up my changed to FLUID-4970. I pulled down your 4728-b changes and I'm still having problems in IE8 and IE9

[14:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: what were the problems there?

[14:31:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> The hide/show panel button doesn't work in IE

[14:31:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hmm.. i don't know what's up with that

[14:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> there's an error. Let me get it...

[14:31:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that should be working in our FLUID-4927-b unless something just broke

[14:31:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay

[14:34:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: Expected identifier, string, or number

[14:34:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> FatPanelUIOptions.js, line 141, char 21

[14:34:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: hmm.. that's a bit vague sorry..

[14:34:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay i can check the line number, thanks

[14:34:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ty

[14:35:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i think my line numbers might be different from yours, can you let me know what shows up there for you

[14:35:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: ^

[14:36:19 CDT(-0500)]