fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-02-16

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Last updated: Feb 16, 2010Version comment
20 min read

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[10:07:44 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: just to double check are we still in bug parade today or are we moving on to testing?
[10:07:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: (tongue)
[10:07:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I thought you were the King
[10:08:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Looks to me like we're still missing some fundamental integrations before testing can begin.
[10:08:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And we've still got a few outstanding issues that we're going to need to plan a bit before we can move forward
[10:08:48 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: thought so, but wasn't sure if i had missed something
[10:08:55 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: oh okay
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[10:09:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, off the top of my head, there's still the issue of My Collection, Guest book, and the new changes to the import to support Related Artifacts.
[10:09:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Then there's performance.
[10:09:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I'm hoping we can spend some time this morning updating our plan and deciding on next steps
[10:09:44 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: sounds good
[10:09:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In the meantime, we should Bug Parade away
[10:10:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: What is your sense of how long a full QA cycle will take?
[10:10:40 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: To run through all the tests we wrote, probably a few hours to a day for each platform.
[10:10:53 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jameswy: is that for 1 person
[10:11:06 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> justin_o: Yes, one person.
[10:11:32 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jameswy: okay... and when you say platform you mean iPhone vs iPod
[10:11:34 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> ?
[10:12:12 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> justin_o: Yes, iPhone VO, iPhone non-VO, iPod VO, iPod non-VO.
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[10:12:37 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jameswy: okay... not sure if we have access to any iPond w/ VO
[10:13:10 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> sorry.. iPod
[10:13:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: I totally can't wait to buy an iPond!
[10:13:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> They are so HOT!
[10:13:30 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> iPond is the new Apple water based computing device
[10:13:58 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> justin_o: right. I should add though that we haven't ever experienced a difference in Safari behavior between the iPod and iPhone.
[10:15:28 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jameswy: that's good to hear.. i imagine the only hardware difference relevant to us at this release may be the processor speed... but i could be mistaken
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[10:16:57 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> justin_o: Indeed. Should we be testing just two "platforms" then? One w/ VO on, and the other without?
[10:17:56 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> It's probably a good idea to make sure we test on iPod's if we can in at least one config, since that is what mccord will be using for the pilot...
[10:18:27 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> meaning we can do the with and without VO on the iPhone but we should also try to do something on the ipod if we can.
[10:25:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think we can probably manage with a QA phase that starts on Thursday
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[10:57:34 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'm rebuilding the nightly build now folks – heads up
[10:57:52 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: yura:colinclark: jameswy: ^
[10:58:01 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: thanks
[10:58:12 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: ah, good to know.
[10:58:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It should be about 5 min
[11:11:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hey jessm
[11:11:32 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: yes?
[11:11:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Should we do a bit of bug prioritization with jameswy, yura, and justin_o now?
[11:11:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It looks like they've pretty much fixed the media badge styling issue, which is wicked
[11:12:08 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Sure thing.
[11:12:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But it might make sense to go over the plan and then pick off the screaming P2s
[11:12:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, here's a sketch of what the week might look like:
[11:12:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Today: My Collection and Guest book integrating and fully working in trunk
[11:13:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Late today + tomorrow: yura starts working with Hugues on setting up his server environment. justin_o starts triaging our performance issues
[11:13:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Thursday: finish off performance tweaks. QA starts--all hands on deck for testing
[11:13:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Friday morning: finish QA
[11:13:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Friday afternoon: build a "release" artifact for Hugues and go have a good weekend
[11:14:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Seem sane?
[11:14:28 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'd add to that some styling shenanigans that perhaps jameswy should join me in?
[11:14:41 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> Yep. What if we run into big bugs on the way? Do we have next week to do fixes, or are we freezing Friday afternoon?
[11:14:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: That would be awesome
[11:15:03 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: i'm guessing that's an hugues question
[11:15:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: I think we can make fixes as we go, but there's the open question of blockers found during QA
[11:15:17 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'm going to try to arrange a call with hugues this afternoon with colinclark: and jameswy:
[11:15:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think our aim will be to do a very comprehensive QA phase with everyone involved on Thursday
[11:15:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> giving us friday morning to tweak and re-test
[11:15:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: sounds good
[11:15:54 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark, jessm: Alrighty.
[11:15:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: I'm assuming we should be practicing our QA plans pretty much constantly at this point
[11:16:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So as soon as My Collection and Guest book are in, we'll do some QA today and tommorrow, too
[11:16:46 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Excellent. I'm excited to test My Collection. Guest book is faux-functionality, right?
[11:16:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We're a little behind schedule because we added extra functionality based on Hugues' feedback
[11:16:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Related Artifacts, etc.
[11:17:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: Guest book at the moment is looking pretty faux, but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually just works by today or early tomorrow. We'll just have to see
[11:17:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Interestingly, the gap between faux and real is pretty small
[11:18:32 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Sounds good.
[11:18:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, jameswy jessm justin_o and yura, I think our next step is really just to check in on bugs
[11:19:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The major remaining blockers are all My Collection and Guest book-related
[11:19:41 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'm going to take on styling in enter object code and guest book
[11:19:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Wicked, thanks
[11:20:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I guess we just need to identify a handful of the highest-priority P2s
[11:20:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: You want to compile a bit of a list for us, or should we talk through it here?
[11:20:32 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: i'm just about to commit the fix for the media badges
[11:20:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Awesome
[11:20:46 EST(-0500)] <jessm> a11y on object code is a firm #2, no?
[11:21:15 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Probably best to talk it through here. I'm not familiar with all the bugs in the parade yet (just the ones I filed)
[11:21:30 EST(-0500)] <jessm> http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&amp;requestId=10128
[11:21:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Got tickets for the a11y issues?
[11:21:50 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: strangely enough, I think it might not be for the pilot testing--afaik, we don't have VoiceOver on the iPods Apple provided no?
[11:22:21 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> But getting it cleaned up for 0.3 (independent of the pilot) would be awesome if we can do it.
[11:22:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: How do you know?
[11:23:39 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: can't find the jira yet
[11:23:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: A few housekeeping details... ENGAGE-371 got fixed last Friday. I think I had misplaced the JIRA for it and filed my commits against a more general one, ENGAGE-341
[11:23:52 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i think it was related to the images not text on object code
[11:23:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I will relate it and close it
[11:24:05 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: roger that
[11:24:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Sveto had a patch for that, right?
[11:24:17 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: I don't for certain (though Hugues should probably know by now--the devices are in his hands starting yesterday I believe), but I thought the devices were older gen iPod touches. Can someone correct me on this? (jessm ?)
[11:24:36 EST(-0500)] <jessm> they aren't the latest gen, i think i heard that
[11:24:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> but they are running the latest OS
[11:25:11 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: sveto has a new patch that addresses the invalid code icon for the warning message and i think he may have added in some fixes for the aria issue on the button
[11:25:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: I think he added aria-label attributes, though I don't know what impact they may have
[11:25:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm, jameswy: I guess we'll find out this afternoon
[11:26:11 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm, jameswy: If that's the case then they probably wont' have voice over since i think only the latest models have the necessary hardware for it.
[11:26:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I worry about the optics of shipping anything with blatant and easy-to-fix a11y issues
[11:26:33 EST(-0500)] <jessm> k, besides that, colinclark i think the bugs tagged major are pretty much the #2s
[11:26:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And our non-existent primary persona for this particular use case probably has their own iPhone/iPod touch set up with VO anyway
[11:26:42 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: yeah... i should try it on an actual phone
[11:26:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Critical, right?
[11:26:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Major is P3?
[11:27:10 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes
[11:27:14 EST(-0500)] <jessm> sorry, colinclark justin_o critical
[11:27:52 EST(-0500)] <jessm> how about i'll dig through the filter and ask here in teh channel if i think something should be a critical and isn't?
[11:27:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Just heard back from Hugues and he can't make it. You or I can outline the plan to him via email, and then 2 pm tomorrow sounds fine
[11:28:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: That sounds great. I'm just going through the filter myself.
[11:28:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: You should be trolling through JIRA looking for showstoppers on your list
[11:28:22 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: roger that
[11:28:26 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: i'll outline the plan and reply to him...
[11:28:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> or, I guess at this point, near-showstoppers (smile)
[11:28:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: you rule
[11:28:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So yura you've got a guaranteed day to help squash bugs
[11:29:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Since Hugues won't be around for you to help him set up his server until tomorrow
[11:29:18 EST(-0500)] <yura> great
[11:29:18 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: just to let you know i've just marked ENGAGE-361 as resolved
[11:29:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So jessm, in terms of the "his server vs. ours" question, I think the bottom line is that we can do either. We'd love to pilot the process of getting it set up on his servers, plus it will be faster that way.
[11:29:48 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: cool
[11:30:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Let's let some reviews queue up and then we can do another blitz this aft, justin_o?
[11:30:30 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark, jessm: should I just start spitting out bugs I reported that I consider P2ish?
[11:30:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: gather, then spit
[11:30:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: ENGAGE-142...
[11:31:08 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: hahahaha... okay.
[11:31:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Is that the one you mentioned is outstanding because My Collection still needs to use the Nav Bar?
[11:31:15 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: yep
[11:31:24 EST(-0500)] <jessm> standup
[11:31:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, let's close it and I'll file a JIRA specifically for My Collection
[11:31:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Has ENGAGE-142 been reviewed, justin_o ?
[11:32:04 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: not yet no
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[11:32:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, so resolve it and jessm can add it to the "to review" queue
[11:32:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> ah, 142 has been patched, ok
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[11:45:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm, justin_o http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/ENGAGE-388
[11:46:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I've filed this so that we can resolve ENGAGE-142 (it still needs to be reviewed)
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[11:46:49 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: do you know if there is a jira filed for the issue with the navigationList that cause the scrollbars to be shown when there is a discription?
[11:47:07 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: i think so...
[11:47:13 EST(-0500)] * jessm checking
[11:47:51 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> thanks
[11:48:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: This one seems to have been fixed awhile ago... what do you think? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/ENGAGE-248
[11:48:04 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: perhaps not actually
[11:48:14 EST(-0500)] <jessm> all i know about is 363, but that seems different?
[11:48:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: I think justin_o is indeed talking about ENGAGE-363
[11:48:57 EST(-0500)] <jessm> ah, good
[11:49:00 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: i believe it has.
[11:49:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Ok, I'm gonna close it
[11:49:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't think any review is necessary, since it really has been covered by other tickets that have been reveiwed.
[11:49:50 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark, jessm: yes ENGAGE-363 is it... I was just chatting with Yura and he was wondering if that should be promoted to a critical
[11:50:04 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: makes sense
[11:51:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o, jessm: I'd like to punt this one from the bug parade: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/ENGAGE-264
[11:51:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> any -1s?
[11:52:42 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: how is hugues going to import his data? is he going to checkout the importer from the scratchpad and then make some adjustments to the code or will he replicate our database?
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[11:54:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Any reason he can't just replicate our database?
[11:55:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'd hate to have to make any mortal use our ad-hoc importer if it's at all avoidable
[11:55:31 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> (smile) i think that should be okay...
[11:55:42 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: I've gathered the high priorities among the JIRAs I reported. Where do I spit?
[11:56:08 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: so i would agree that we should punt ENGAGE-264
[11:56:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: done (smile)
[11:59:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ack, I filed ENGAGE-388 but there is already ENGAGE-154, which is identical, jessm
[11:59:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I will close 388
[11:59:54 EST(-0500)] <jessm> let's punt 264 and relocate it to the 0.3 full release
[12:00:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: I punted it as far back as 0.5 for now
[12:00:15 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: cool
[12:00:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'd rather see some of our museum-specific hacks cleaned up for 0.3, and then address things like import for 0.5
[12:00:41 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: i have a patch for 363 – needs major review
[12:01:27 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: we're looking for criticals that aren't labeled critical – is that what your list is?
[12:01:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm, jameswy: And even criticals that are particularly more critical than other criticals (wink)
[12:02:06 EST(-0500)] <jessm> critical criticals, if you will
[12:02:06 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: Yeah. I didn't change the default priorities on any of mine.
[12:02:27 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: Ah, well... I don't know that any of them are critical-criticals. Critical, certainly, though. I think.
[12:02:52 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: not suggesting you change them – what i'm hoping for in a list is those things that are critical that aren't labeled critical in JIRA – don't change their priority, just list them here
[12:02:57 EST(-0500)] <jessm> allatonce
[12:03:37 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: roger that.
[12:03:44 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> ENGAGE-331: On tap, tappables should highlight to indicate "touched" feedback
[12:03:44 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> ENGAGE-384: When entering an invalid code, the last digit never appears
[12:03:44 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> ENGAGE-385: When entering a valid code, the entered digits disappear while waiting for page load
[12:03:44 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> ENGAGE-324: Panel heading on Exhibitions Browse should read "Upcoming" and not "upcomingCategory"
[12:03:49 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: those four.
[12:03:57 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: killer, thanks
[12:03:58 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> (in order of priority)
[12:04:12 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: I've resolved ENGAGE-142
[12:04:25 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: nice!
[12:04:32 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: i can try to take a look at your patch for ENGAGE-363
[12:04:45 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: that'd be fantastic
[12:04:55 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'm here if it's really bad – i can handle the truth
[12:05:43 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: 324 for sure
[12:07:01 EST(-0500)] <jessm> eek, jameswy 331 looks big
[12:07:05 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: 331?
[12:07:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: I agree with jameswy's priorities
[12:07:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 331 is just plain weird
[12:07:34 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: cool
[12:07:35 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: It's a big usability issue. Zero feedback = really bad.
[12:07:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And made worse by how slow we are
[12:07:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In other words, fixing this might help a tiny bit with the perception of speed
[12:07:59 EST(-0500)] <jessm> gotcha
[12:08:03 EST(-0500)] * jessm updating priorities
[12:08:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: It's an odd an interesting one... perhaps something to team up with justin_o on
[12:08:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It'll involve some sleuthing... why do we see click feedback in ordinary Safari, but not similar tap feedback on the phone?
[12:08:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's probably a documented issue that we just need to find a tutorial about, but who knows?
[12:09:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: justin_o yura colinclark: refresh the bug list in JIRA, the priorities ahve been changed
[12:09:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> k
[12:14:56 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: actually yura was taking a look at that jira too... so i'll ask him to look at the patch
[12:15:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'm just looking at the JIRA tags "resolved" and constructing a TO REVIEW list from that
[12:15:29 EST(-0500)] <jessm> looks like: 142, 310, 309, 345, 361, 364, 387,
[12:15:37 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: justin_o yes definitely, I think in this case this styling should propagate to all places where nav list is used
[12:16:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: let me know if there's anything i can help with
[12:16:27 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: i'm no FJ
[12:16:31 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: sure (smile)
[12:24:39 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> this may be interesting to some people. Basically it's a demo from RIM of their webkit based browser http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/rim-demos-new-webkit-based-blackberry-browser-at-mwc-its-fas/
[12:27:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> "Built on Blackberry efficiency model for optimal experience"
[12:27:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This reminds me that I need to get back in touch with our RIM friends about hardware
[12:30:08 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: It's actually intersting, i imagine our designs will have to change a bit if we start supporting devices with a physcial keyboard and no touch screen (i'm thinking about the code entry screen). It would be annoying to have to scroll a mouse to all the buttons.
[12:30:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yep
[12:30:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The plan for Bb test hardware is to get one physical keyboard and one touch screen
[12:30:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That way we'll come face to face with these kinds of design changes
[12:31:07 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: that's great
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[13:00:12 EST(-0500)] <jessm> just added 389 to bug parade with a patch coming soon – it's just basic styling for the Goosebook
[13:01:34 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: was my patch terrible? anything you can help me with?
[13:03:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: I think justin_o has a secret he needs to tell you
[13:03:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[13:04:06 EST(-0500)] <jessm> uh oh
[13:04:22 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: ?? ^
[13:05:15 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: is it rtfm?
[13:05:25 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: well... it's just that yura had already come up with the fix by the time i pointed him at your patch
[13:05:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yack
[13:05:49 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: yura: that patch has been sitting there for days
[13:05:55 EST(-0500)] <jessm> did i not label it properly?
[13:06:05 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: no it was there properly
[13:06:15 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> justin_o: just an oversite
[13:06:21 EST(-0500)] <jessm> oh, that's sad
[13:06:29 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> probably because we couldn't remember the jira number... sorry
[13:06:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> ok, not a baby in a hot car – soldier on we will! yura justin_o
[13:07:09 EST(-0500)] <jessm> so, yura justin_o I've got three JIRAs all assigned to me – I've got patches for all three – now it's two since Yura has patched 363
[13:07:17 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> (smile)
[13:07:20 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> which ones
[13:07:25 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: ^
[13:07:33 EST(-0500)] <jessm> 389
[13:07:42 EST(-0500)] <jessm> and 329
[13:08:25 EST(-0500)] <jessm> so, yura do you need your patch reviewed?
[13:08:32 EST(-0500)] <jessm> for 363?
[13:08:57 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: ya, that would be nice (smile)
[13:09:16 EST(-0500)] <yura> i showed it informally to justin_o
[13:09:17 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: better watch out! I'll elect you to be my code mentor...
[13:09:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> (smile)
[13:09:26 EST(-0500)] <yura> (smile)
[13:10:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> poor jessm got her patch ignored (sad)
[13:10:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm and yura, I'm really glad you guys are trading patch reviews.
[13:10:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Just feel free to ask justin_o or I to do a final review and commit whenever you need it
[13:11:23 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: are you sure it's 389... i don' t see a patch on that one
[13:11:58 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura, if you're into it, i'd love for you to review the patch on 329?
[13:12:08 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: i haven't attached it yet...
[13:12:12 EST(-0500)] <jessm> just added it
[13:12:25 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: thanks
[13:17:31 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: are you working on performance?
[13:17:33 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: ping?
[13:19:43 EST(-0500)] <yura> hey jessm
[13:19:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Shall we make some time today to continue debugging ENGAGE-356?
[13:19:56 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> It looks like somehow my fix attempt didn't do the trick...
[13:20:16 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> Bosmon: sure
[13:20:27 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: what are you working on now? do you want to review the patch on 329 or 389?
[13:20:30 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: just working on some code reviews at the moment
[13:20:44 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: yes, i will now (smile)
[13:34:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o, yura: Just so I'm in the loop...
[13:34:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> What are you guys actually working on right now?
[13:34:24 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> i'm looking through the patch for 363
[13:34:32 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> at the moment...
[13:34:34 EST(-0500)] <yura> colinclark: i m reviewing jessm's patch for engage-329
[13:34:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yura's patch for ENGAGE-363, justin_o?
[13:34:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Ok. After that, then what?
[13:34:48 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes
[13:34:55 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> giving feedback to sveto
[13:35:05 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> looking for the aria stuff in apple dev centre
[13:35:16 EST(-0500)] <yura> ill take a look at 389
[13:35:18 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> have to meet with Bosmon at some point to help him debug
[13:35:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: Ok, that's sounds like the rest of the day for you (wink)
[13:35:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> After that, justin_o, you'll dive into performance triage?
[13:35:51 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark: yep
[13:36:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yura: For you there are those key issues James mentioned...
[13:37:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ENGAGE-331, ENGAGE-384, ENGAGE-385, and ENGAGE-324
[13:37:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Those ones are hot
[13:40:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hey Bosmon, are you around?
[13:40:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes
[13:41:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I've found what looks like a bug in fluid.kettle.paramsToMap()... I don't see any existing unit tests, is that right?
[13:41:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I while whip something up if not
[13:41:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh, do go ahead
[13:41:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> What is the bug?
[13:41:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, it's an interesting one
[13:42:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Thinking about it more, it's probably my bug
[13:42:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Naturally, I wanted to pass it window.location.search
[13:42:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But I guess it's written to assume its argument is everything after the "?" in the URL
[13:42:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Whereas window.location.search includes it
[13:42:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> ah
[13:42:57 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> yes
[13:43:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This is code that is also used in Kettle, so I don't want to break anything
[13:43:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> But is it safe to extend it to strip off a leading ? if one is found?
[13:44:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I suppose it is...
[13:45:19 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, actually it has a further "possible bug" in that it does no URLdecoding....
[13:45:23 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess this hasn't been an issue so far
[13:45:34 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> This is always a bit unclear as to whether the container has to do it
[13:46:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Ah, interesting
[13:46:20 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> But why wouldn't you strip off the ? yourself? (tongue)
[13:46:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It would certainly be convenient to have it do URL decoding. Why not do it?
[13:46:40 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well I guess this is another lion fish-catching issue (tongue)
[13:47:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I certainly can easily strip off the ? myself, but the real question is whether we want our users to have to do this all the time?
[13:47:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> You mean, if they look at window.location.search?
[13:47:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I sort of assume that paramsToMap() is a great candidate for eventual promotion into Infusion
[13:48:02 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess that would tend to show the URLencoded variety of the params...
[13:48:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I'd have to check the docs, but I assume so.
[13:48:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Do you imagine users will, generally, use paramsToMap() on anything other than window.location.search? It seems like the primary use case.
[13:49:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I suppose that's true...
[13:49:30 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'd hope they would tend not to use it at all (tongue)
[13:50:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)
[13:51:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, you're right that anything returned from window.location will be URL encoded (with the exception of hash, which is a bug in Firefox)
[13:51:25 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok
[13:51:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Surely the # itself shouldn't be url-encoded?
[13:51:56 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: was my email 6 update blank for you? did it show the 'to review' at the top?
[13:51:59 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess you mean # characters which have happened to have got encoded?
[13:52:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: No, sorry. window.location.hash returns the everything after the #...
[13:52:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> oh
[13:52:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In Firefox, the documentation reports a bug where window.location.hash will not be URL encoded
[13:52:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> A minor detail (tongue)
[13:52:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh, I see
[14:42:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> yura - are you there?
[14:42:40 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> How are views currently got into Couch?
[14:42:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon> Do you just paste the text in SVN into Futon or do you have a "mini-app"?
[14:54:52 EST(-0500)] <yura> Bosmon: yes here
[14:55:31 EST(-0500)] <yura> Bosmon: no, no mini app at the moment
[15:00:07 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: justin_o colinclark: i just added 390 to parade – it's for basic styling work on Object Code Entry
[15:00:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> cool
[15:00:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Are you going to tackle it?
[15:00:26 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: i am
[15:00:32 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: what are you up to?
[15:00:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> awesome
[15:01:14 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: I m updating the patch for 329 a little bit
[15:01:33 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: okay... i'm trying to figure out how to get these buttons to be announced by voice over properly... I'm probably going to have to change the markup for the buttons for that.
[15:02:20 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: so, that one isn't as hot as James'
[15:02:28 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: are you going to dive into those?
[15:03:15 EST(-0500)] <yura> jessm: which one's exactly?
[15:03:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> To you?
[15:03:36 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: yura: For you there are those key issues James mentioned...
[15:03:37 EST(-0500)] <jessm> [1:37pm] colinclark: ENGAGE-331, ENGAGE-384, ENGAGE-385, and ENGAGE-324
[15:03:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks, jessm
[15:04:54 EST(-0500)] <yura> colinclark: jessm yes I will switch to 331 right now thne
[15:04:55 EST(-0500)] <yura> then
[15:10:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks dude
[15:14:11 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: wireframes for object code entry have the lower right button labeled DEL – is that what you want?
[15:14:18 EST(-0500)] <jessm> rather, is that what it should be?
[15:16:12 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: Good question--there was a discussion around this earlier. I think we decided to go for "X" (reverting to Draft 8 design) to be more internationally friendly.
[15:16:23 EST(-0500)] <jessm> jameswy: ok
[15:16:33 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> jessm: It's a minor issue to me as user testing will show if "x" isn't clear enough.
[15:16:42 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> Bosmon: let me know when you want to do that debugging... i'm trying to get the buttons working with voiceover on the object code entry screen and i'm starting to think i could spend all day with it...
[15:16:47 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: is 305 resolved then/
[15:16:49 EST(-0500)] <jessm> ?
[15:17:46 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: yep.. that one was just for the images
[15:17:58 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: so i can resolve it or outright close it?
[15:18:18 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> i think it can be closed
[15:18:19 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: ugh, it is closed
[15:18:22 EST(-0500)] <jessm> sorry
[15:19:12 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: would you mind addding http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/ENGAGE-380 to the bug parade
[15:19:50 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: done
[15:22:07 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: thanks
[15:42:47 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: I've close 363
[15:43:11 EST(-0500)] <jessm> k, great
[16:07:24 EST(-0500)] <yura> hey jessm, are you working on the object code entry styling right now?
[16:08:00 EST(-0500)] <jessm> yura: i'm not – not sure how to get rid of the lines – and i think that's all that i saw needed to be done on the CSS end?
[16:08:22 EST(-0500)] <yura> well I was going to make sure that page has the tap highlighting that i m working on
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[17:46:34 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: or jessm: Who do I need to speak with to get a wiki account that doesn't require a visual CAPTCHA to be solved?
[17:47:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: I'll make you an account. In desperation from massive spam attacks we had to switch to using the CAPTCHA. Confluence is awfully shoddy.
[17:47:26 EST(-0500)] <jessm> EverettZ: hm, jamon is helping out on the sysadmin end, but I'd be happy to help if i can
[17:47:35 EST(-0500)] <jessm> oops, too many offers!
[17:48:18 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: everett@zufelt.ca would be a good account to use EverettZ would be a good username, thanks
[17:49:33 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: The CAPTCHA isn't solvable with the firefox Webvisum plugin, which is particularly frustrating. A barrier to involvement if I wasn't already part of the community in another way.
[17:50:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Yep, we know. It's really, really awful.
[17:50:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Shall I phone you with a strong password, or just come up with something weakly secure and email it to you?
[17:50:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Given how problematic Confluence is, I have no idea how much luck you will have changing your password.
[17:53:03 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: e-mail is fine, thanks.
[17:54:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Done
[17:56:31 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: Thanks. Really a good case study of how difficult it is to run a project, or business, that is universally accessible. It's no one's fault, but barriers exist around every corner.
[17:57:02 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: Actually proposing an AccessU session talking about Open Source projects / communities and inclusivity.
[17:57:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Yep, for sure. And it also illustrates the cost of inaccessibility and closed formats. Confluence was a bad choice, but migrating off it will be a huge, insane task. It also shows the problem of accessible tools vs. general usability.
[17:58:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Confluence was really easy for a lot of people--way better than the alternatives. But Atlassian has done such a terrible job of making it inclusive.
[17:58:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: As for your session, that sounds really good.
[18:05:08 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: thanks, developing an inclusive technical community is a immense undertaking. I would have to say that for Fluid it is the accessibility of the human components that has always mitigated the inaccessibility of technology.
[18:06:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: We try our best. I'd like to use more accessible infrastructure, but it's so hard to find really viable options. Synchronous conferencing and wikis are probably the worst situation for us.
[18:07:57 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: well, media wiki is reasonably accessible out of the box. But, definitely the challenge is present everywhere, you can't implement accessible technology if it doesn't exist.
[18:08:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: Yeah, it's not bad. People have complained about it's ease of use. We've found a lot of our non-technical community members-designers, testers, and so on-want to be able to use really simple rich text editors and so on.
[18:09:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: The real challenge is being inclusive of non technical people alongside people who are using assistive technologies, etc. I guess these are the systemic problems we are trying to address.
[18:11:38 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: very true. However, and I am clearly biased here. For most projects where the human element doesn't mitigate the technical accessibility element, I would have to say that non-technical people can learn how to use systems with more challenging UX design, whereas users with disabilities cannot learn to be undisabled.
[18:14:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EverettZ: For sure. The bottom line is that no one should feel alienated by the barrier of entry into a community.
[18:16:23 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: Agreed.
[18:16:41 EST(-0500)] <EverettZ> colinclark: thanks for the wiki login and chat. later.
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