fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-12-13

[08:33:09 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey justin_o just reviewing http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3283
[08:33:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks
[08:48:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung i'm not sure i understand the renderer demo, wanna skype?
[08:48:39 CST(-0600)] <jhung> sure
[08:58:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey anastasiac ! quick q for renderer instructions... right now says "The Model on the right is the data used to render the page. As controls are manipulated, the Renderer automatically updates the model to reflect the user's actions." ... i'm thinking we should add a line that describes the significance/usefulness of this. suggestions?
[08:59:31 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> heidi_, that might be helpful - what would you suggest?
[09:00:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> anastasiac i suppose a suggestion for how the model might be used after this form is completed?
[09:00:38 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> that might be food
[09:00:42 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> good (smile)
[09:00:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hehe
[09:01:07 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> why don't you draft something, heidi_?
[09:02:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> anastasiac i guess i'm not sure what the strengths are here vs the usual method of submitting a form
[09:03:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i guess the lack of having to submit...
[09:03:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hmm
[09:03:20 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> well, data is often submitted asynchronously, i.e. not using a traditional form submit
[09:03:50 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> the up-to-date model is present in memory, so the code just has to send the data to the server, it doesn't have to query the UI for the latest values
[09:05:55 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah. it's awesome. just trying to think of a good sentence that explains why...
[09:06:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ill check renderer doc
[09:06:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> it'd actually be nice to link to the doc page of each component from this demo page
[09:17:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Morning
[09:17:29 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: hello
[09:17:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Are you in the loop on what everyone's working on at the moment? We should all now be up to our knees in slush (smile)
[09:17:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm just preparing the last fix for my last blocker
[09:18:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> FLUID-3885, which is the issue for providing options backwards compatibility for Uploader
[09:18:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I just committed the new fluid.model.transformWithRules functionality to the framework
[09:18:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and now I'm getting it hooked up with the Uploader
[09:20:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> fluid-everyone: What's on your release plate at the moment?
[09:20:42 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I should be available for doing code reviews after standup
[09:20:57 CST(-0600)] <michelled> nothing else is on my plate right now
[09:21:09 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark: just reviewed 3892, about to close; the king has asked me to coordinate the identification of "unsupported" stuff; I'm available for anything else, as well
[09:21:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> reviewing FLUID-3283. should be done soon, then avail for more
[09:22:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: How about you?
[09:22:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: How about you?
[09:23:41 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: Just in the middle of filing some Renderer demo jiras, but otherwise free.
[09:25:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: Still doing some work to make sure i'm all caught up with where everything is at... then i'll probably take a look at some of the general tasks that i can help out with and making sure the test test plans are ready to go... Harris did most of this already so that shouldn't take long
[09:25:06 CST(-0600)] <jessm> has everyone read Justin's email to the list? Re: Bug Parade Countdown: The ice is coming, but not here yet
[09:25:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, great
[09:25:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, a couple of things emerged last night that we should take a look at...
[09:25:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. I think there may be a handful of ARIA/screen reader issues with Uploader.
[09:25:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a. The total progress bar doesn't seem to be announced while an upload is happening
[09:26:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> b. The live region that describes the state of the queue isn't being read after adding new files to the queue
[09:26:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think these are regressions
[09:26:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam has agreed to take a look at these
[09:26:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The other big thing is that Bosmon thinks he has a viable patch for the Reorderer and improved ARIA
[09:26:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> fluid-everyone: We need someone to apply this patch and do some testing with NVDA and JAWS
[09:27:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If it looks good, we'll consider including it in this release. If not, let's punt it for 1.4
[09:28:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: What your thinking in regards to wrapping Reorderer in an application role? Will it improve the experience of having to manually switch modes to interact with Reorderer?
[09:28:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_, jhung: either of you able to look at the patch with NVDA and JAWS?
[09:29:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: it should but we have other issues there.. namely the container is already being assigned a role, either list or grid
[09:29:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Anything other than that?
[09:29:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We should be able to wrap the Reorderer's container in something
[09:29:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's pretty unconventional, but I can't think of any immediate reason why it's actively hostile
[09:30:31 CST(-0600)] * colinclark is going to work at home today in order to focus on this last blocker and the stack of code reviews.
[09:30:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Can you see any reason why it's a terrible idea?
[09:30:54 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: the two things i was thinking are 1) what should we wrap it in.. a list could either be block or inline for example 2) it may mess up someones styles
[09:31:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think working from home shouldn't be a problem
[09:31:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o i'm borrowing my husband's windows laptop - can test nvda now .... my VM version is finicky
[09:31:14 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: I can take a look at that. What is the Jira?
[09:31:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks, and please than your husband too (smile)
[09:31:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: Next time you're in the office, let's hook you up with a working VM
[09:31:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: do you think that you could you also take a look at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3778
[09:32:12 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark my vm is fine, it's just not having an insert button makes the mode-switching a puzzle
[09:32:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: You can remap that
[09:32:27 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung, heidi_ the screen reader testing is for this jira i believe http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3711
[09:32:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Are you using VMWare or VirtualBox?
[09:32:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah i tried using the 'caps lock' setting but it didn't work
[09:32:57 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> virtualbox
[09:32:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung, heidi_: Be sure also to read the thread on the list about it, starting with Antranig's "Implementation for FLUID-3711" email
[09:33:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ok
[09:33:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: I've only done it in VMWare, but I'm sure there's a way to remap your insert key. I remapped it, at random, to the ` key
[09:33:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark - okay wicked ill check into that
[09:34:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Have you ever remapped keys in VirtualBox?
[09:34:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I haven't no.. sorry... have only used virtual box once or twice
[09:34:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[09:35:20 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: I can take a look at FLUID-3778.
[09:35:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> do we have a share-able serial for jaws? i'm guessing not
[09:35:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: We'll get some up-to-date licenses of JAWS when the IDI starts up
[09:36:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cool
[09:36:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in the meantime, the 30-minute demo is useful for quick testing
[09:36:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> oh nice, ok
[09:40:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks
[09:46:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: can http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3775 be closed now?
[09:47:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> ah, Justin_o, no - thanks for reminding me. I was testing harriswong's patch when I ran into that progressive enhancement issue. I'll finish the review and commit the changes now
[09:48:05 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[09:49:35 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: anastasiac: 3774 is still listed as an open blocker on the email – is that correct?
[09:50:58 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, I believe so. Docs blockers don't have to hold up code freeze, since they happen in the wiki. In fact, they kind of have to wait for code freeze, since until then, more functions might get added
[09:58:09 CST(-0600)] <jhung> fluid-everyone: I am working on http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3711. I have applied the patch. What should I be hearing in NVDA while using the Reorderer?
[09:59:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: i think you should be hearing an indication of location
[10:00:25 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: hmmm... let me double check to see the patch applied. I'm not hearing anything after moving an item.
[10:00:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, regarding 3775, and in particular the removal of the individual fss dependencies in favor of having just one: this should include the actual removal of the individual fssXXDependencies.json files, right? Just leave the one fssDependencies.json file?
[10:02:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes.. i believe so... harris mentioned that the removal of the files didn't get added into his patch... not sure why... i suppose we could also leave them in there for the future if we wanted to since they will have no effect, but i think it would be cleaner to get rid of them now and add them back in later if we need them
[10:02:49 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> ok, thanks - just wanted to double-check
[10:03:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> +1 on getting rid of them
[10:03:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: I have a tricky problem I need some advice on
[10:03:41 CST(-0600)] <michelled> sure
[10:03:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, for Uploader options backwards compatibility, I have created a new file
[10:04:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Currently named UploaderCompatibility-Infusion.js
[10:04:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry
[10:04:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> UploaderCompatibility-Infusion1.2.js
[10:04:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This means that a user can choose to add this file to get backwards compatibility
[10:05:14 CST(-0600)] <michelled> sounds good
[10:05:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Users of modern options don't have to pay the penalty of no-op options chewing as a result
[10:06:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It does mean that users who haven't updated their code to the latest form will have to add an extra file
[10:06:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So that seems good
[10:06:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Right now, I've got a quick and dirty and fairly nasty "monkey patching" solution
[10:06:56 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: regarding the Uploader's progress bar regression issue in the work list, I hear the progress bar beeps in the Uploader. I've compared both uploader versions from the Aegis Demo back in november with what's in trunk
[10:07:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> where I just grab fluid.uploader.multiFileUploader and replace it with a wrapper function that chews the options
[10:07:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So the tricky problem is that the compatibility file itself depends on another core framework file that the Uploader doesn't otherwise depend on
[10:07:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ModelTransformations.js
[10:07:54 CST(-0600)] <mlam> I'm running XP with NVDA 2010 2b2 and the beeps are fine. The live region is also being read properly by the screen reader
[10:07:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you think that's a reasonable expectation--just tell the users that they need to import these two extra files and it will magically work?
[10:08:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Even when you add files from the queue, right after the dialog is dismissed?
[10:08:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm running the same version of NVDA and I heard no beep...
[10:08:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah but I may have been uploading a small file
[10:08:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> perhaps that's it
[10:09:49 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: that seems reasonable to me.
[10:10:00 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: right after the file dialog is closed, the live region for the current batch summary is not read by the screen reader.
[10:10:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Any thoughts on my question to michelled?
[10:10:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> but is only read AFTER the files have been uploaded.
[10:10:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: In both versions?
[10:10:22 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes, both versions
[10:10:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so you notice that we should be updating the live region after three events
[10:10:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> events.afterFileDialog.addListener(regionUpdater);
[10:10:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> events.afterFileRemoved.addListener(regionUpdater);
[10:10:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> in some ways I'd be happy to just make Model Transformations part of the core framework and always depend on it but of course it's much better to have more fined grained dependencies and not seen stuff down the wire that we don't need to
[10:10:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> events.afterUploadComplete.addListener(regionUpdater);
[10:11:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: For those three events, which ones are actually working?
[10:11:28 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes, that's right
[10:11:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: I guess because it's in the core framework module, users of InfusionAll.js or their own custom build will get it automatically
[10:12:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's only users who are linking against individual files
[10:12:02 CST(-0600)] <mlam> all events are updating the text in the live region, but i'm just not getting feedback from the screen reader on teh afterFileRemoved and afterFileDialog events
[10:12:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[10:12:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Can you figure out why?
[10:12:29 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes, i'll look into it
[10:12:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm thinking maybe NVDA is really busy trying to tell the user that focus moved back into the web page from the dialog
[10:12:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We may have to make our live region ruder
[10:12:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or delay it slightly
[10:12:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or something
[10:12:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'd be curious how JAWS sounds oto
[10:12:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but that's great news that the progress bar is firing for you
[10:13:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> fluid-everyone: Is anyone running NVDA 2010.2 (the final release, not a beta)?
[10:14:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: Okay, I'm going to go for it, then. Can you review what I've got quickly in a sec?
[10:14:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Not a big review--that can wait until this afternoon
[10:14:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but a cursory one
[10:15:08 CST(-0600)] <michelled> sure
[10:20:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: If you're doing DOS line endings, can you leave Uploader to the last? I'm just going to do one last pass through it with JSLint, etc.
[10:20:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: Okay, it's in trunk
[10:21:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok
[10:21:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> take a look at UploaderCompatibility-Infusion1.2.js in particular
[10:21:14 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: sure.
[10:21:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But have a glance through the ModelTransformations.js file and tests in the framework
[10:21:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: Thanks. I'll ping you in a sec when I'm done
[10:26:31 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: it's only the afterFileDialog event that isn't giving proper feedback . the afterFileRemoved event is working. i just needed to give the screen reader enough time to read through the aria elements
[10:27:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Can you elaborate?
[10:29:09 CST(-0600)] <mlam> when I was testing the afterFileRemoved event, I kept moving my mouse around which was causing some feedback to be interrupted . it lead me to believe the live region wasn't working properly with afterFileRemoved event.
[10:44:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey mlam, for rich text, the pointer indicates that the entire paragraph is clickable, but looks like it only works with the 'edit' link. is the entire paragraph supposed to be clickable?
[10:45:35 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi_: yes, that's what jhung pointed out on thursday. I think the tooltip text just needs to be changed for the rich text
[10:45:45 CST(-0600)] <mlam> and yes, only the edit link is clickable.
[10:46:06 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> mlam okay jhung is there a jira already ?
[10:46:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: If you need info about the dos line ending task you can check this page on the wiki http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Release+Process
[10:46:18 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: yep
[10:46:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> k cool
[10:46:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung is there also a jira for the tiny mce editor being really wide
[10:46:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: basically it just says "Run source tree through an utility like dos2unix to normalize line endings for Unix"
[10:47:11 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: thanks!
[10:47:21 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: nope.
[10:47:26 CST(-0600)] <jhung> no jira for that one.
[10:47:36 CST(-0600)] <jhung> (you may want to search thoiugh, I haven't come across it).
[10:47:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> k
[10:54:32 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: just double checking.. you've marked FLUID-3775 as resolved.. can it be closed?
[10:54:46 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, yes, I think so
[10:55:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[10:55:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'll do that now
[11:21:58 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: I applied and committed your patch. Good job on the Reorderer instructions. Nice and consistent now. (smile)
[11:22:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> thanks jhung !
[11:22:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung i think you can prob close that one now
[11:22:55 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: yep. Just going to do a once-over on it.
[11:23:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sweet
[11:29:12 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o, heidi_: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3283 has been resolved and closed.
[11:29:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> thanks
[11:33:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks... has it been code reviewed as well?
[11:33:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> Yes I did. 2 rounds of review between Heidi_ and I.
[11:34:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay.. thanks
[11:39:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark patch for http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3711 apply ok for you? fails on FluidView.js and FluidViewTests.js for me
[11:52:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: I haven't had a chance to look at FLUID-3711 patch yet, I'm afraid
[11:52:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What's the problem?
[11:52:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ah okay, thought ya did. those two files won't patch - hunk failed.
[11:52:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> the other two changed files do
[11:52:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you take a look and make sure thatyou
[11:53:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you're applying it from the right path, etc?
[11:53:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i am... and fresh checkout
[11:53:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> worked for jhung so i'm not sure
[11:53:48 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung tho something was weird about unchanged files?
[11:54:51 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark, heidi_: yes. When merging the patch, the process made it appear that I had made local changes to FluidView.js even though it was a clean checkout.
[11:55:08 CST(-0600)] <jhung> Otherwise it merged cleanly.
[11:55:13 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> there are a lot of changes to both files in the patch, but they added in?
[11:55:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I've got a 1 pm meeting, so you guys are going to be on your own for a bit... perhaps Justin_o can lend a hand if he has a free second
[11:55:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Otherwise, I can take a look after 2 pm
[11:55:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> np
[11:55:32 CST(-0600)] <jhung> However, the patch doesn't appear to do anything to the output of NVDA when reordering items. So I think I'm missing something...
[11:55:36 CST(-0600)] <jhung> k
[11:55:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung why would it do that do you think?
[11:56:47 CST(-0600)] <mlam> heidi_: i was able to apply 3711 properly
[11:57:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> strange... maybe eclipse is more forgiving or something? im using terminal. but thanks mlam
[11:57:34 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok..np
[11:57:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: does reordering items give feedback in NVDA?
[11:58:17 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i have no idea. want me to give it a whirl?
[11:58:51 CST(-0600)] <jhung> yeah can you?
[11:59:44 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yah ok
[12:00:29 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: which one? image/list/layout?
[12:01:09 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: any of them. The patch should be universal.
[12:01:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung what's left on http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3822 ?
[12:02:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> am also taking a look at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3811 again
[12:02:49 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: not much. I think it just needs a once-over in functionality testing just to make sure it's working as we expect. After that I think it can be closed.
[12:03:06 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung, the feedback for cell coordinates doesn't present itself every time
[12:03:43 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: yeah? Which demo did you try?
[12:04:40 CST(-0600)] <mlam> layout
[12:04:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> k
[12:23:03 CST(-0600)] <jhung> mlam: I just tried with layout reorderer. NVDA is silent during a move. I don't hear anything. Which version of NVDA are you using?
[12:23:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> jhung: The strange thing that I found was that live regions appear to do nothing at all under W2k... also, that it seemed to be highly dependent on the Firefox version
[12:23:27 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jhung: 2010 2b2
[12:23:34 CST(-0600)] <mlam> it works sometimes, but not always
[12:23:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So, I used the "final release" of NVDA, 2010.2 and Firefox 3.6.13
[12:23:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Under Windows XP
[12:23:51 CST(-0600)] <mlam> but i forgot to mention that it only worked for me using the mouse
[12:23:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> With that combination, I seemed to hear the announcement every time
[12:24:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, the "mouse-only" result is one that I got under W2k
[12:24:15 CST(-0600)] <jhung> bosmon: okay. Using Win 7, 3.6.13. NVDA 2010.2
[12:24:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> With the combination I mentioned just there, it worked with the keyboard too
[12:24:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I see - I couldn't get NVDA to run under Win 7 AT ALL (tongue)
[12:24:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> There clearly seems to be a strong OS-dependency with getting live regions to work under NVDA.....
[12:25:09 CST(-0600)] <jhung> Seems like it.
[12:26:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> http://test.cita.illinois.edu/aria/live/live1.php
[12:26:05 CST(-0600)] <jhung> bosmon: going to try WinXP now...
[12:26:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For example - mlam, jhung - try this demo
[12:26:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Do you hear the number counting up?
[12:26:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I heard it under XP but not under 2k
[12:26:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ALSO I didn't hear the "log panel" speaking under any configuration at all
[12:26:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This stuff looks like it has a REALLY chancy implementation
[12:27:07 CST(-0600)] <jhung> bosmon: I can hear the counting in Win7
[12:27:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Interesting......
[12:28:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Oh, and I assume you enabled "focus mode"
[12:28:09 CST(-0600)] <jhung> yep.
[12:28:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'll make a new version of the patch that hacks the markup to put the application role on
[12:28:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I guess we will have to swallow our pride about not disturbing people's markup, faced with this level of incompetence in implementation....
[12:33:55 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Bosmon: I hear the counting as well, running XP
[12:34:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: you think this should be in this release, or do you think we should spend more time on it and get it in for 1.4
[12:38:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Justin_o, mlam: I tried wrapping the reorderer in a div with "role=application" but I find it still does not switch automatically into "focus mode"
[12:38:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Should I need to do any more for this?
[12:39:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i don't think so.. you tabbed through to a reorderable element and it was still in browse mode?
[12:40:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That's right
[12:40:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> (sad)
[12:40:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually it was even WORSE
[12:41:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Not only was it in browse mode, it would switch back into browse mode after every keypress
[12:41:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, wrapping the reorderer in an application role div breaks it completely
[12:42:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I removed it again and it seems to work correctly for me again
[12:42:29 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> this is sad enough for two (sad) (sad)
[12:43:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In any case I'll regenerate my patch since it looks like it is no longer applying cleanly for peoplpe
[12:44:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: thanks... i'll try it out on my virtual machine with the application role div and see what i get
[12:48:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, Justin_o, mlam - I've regenerated my 3711 patch as 3711-b
[12:49:08 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Bosmon: patch 3711 applied fine for me. I'll make sure it's the same for 3711-b
[12:51:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I just rechecked it and it is making the dynamic announcement correctly on my XP box
[12:52:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> assuming you manually enable "FOCUS MODE" (whatever that is)
[12:52:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Has anyone tried it with JAWS yet?
[12:52:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: mlam did, i'll try again now too
[12:53:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Did it work?
[12:53:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: no it didn't... can you confirm that mlam
[12:53:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> (sad)
[12:54:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This is outrageous
[12:54:23 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Bosmon: no, it didn't work on JAWS
[12:57:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> .............
[13:06:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey dudes
[13:06:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm just catching up now that I'm off my call
[13:06:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I see a lot of sad faces
[13:07:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> some of them in parallel
[13:07:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Parallel Deployment of Sad Faces
[13:07:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon or Justin_o: Can either of you summarize where we're at with the Reorerer?
[13:08:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: How's the Uploader testing going?
[13:08:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Any insights into why our live region is only selectively being read?
[13:09:09 CST(-0600)] <mlam> going. i was a bit distracted with reorderer testing
[13:09:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no worries
[13:09:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Also, could you confirm with the Image Gallery server that the stop button isn't working with the HTML 5 strategy?
[13:09:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And if so, file a JIRA about it and we can pass it by the King to determine whether or not it's a blocker
[13:10:21 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok
[13:10:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Thanks, I really appreciate it
[13:10:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think, aside from these issues, we've got all of our bug parade bug squared away
[13:12:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: If you have a chance, I'd be curious to hear how your experience of trying out the new Uploader with ATutor goes
[13:13:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You should be able to just link the UploaderCompatibility-Infusion1.2.js file into your page and it your old options will automatically be converted to the new format
[13:13:40 CST(-0600)] <mlam> np
[13:13:48 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> colinclark: haven't tried yet. seems there are lots of code review and commits going on today. i plan to try it tomorrow
[13:13:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (Assuming you're running a built version of Infusion. If not, you'll need to link also to the ModelTransformations.js file in the core framework)
[13:14:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: Sounds good
[13:14:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Let me know how it goes
[13:14:14 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> colinclark: sure
[13:14:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or if I can help in any way
[13:14:31 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> colinclark: thx
[13:15:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: My patch has been tested under JAWS and apparently it doesn't work at all
[13:15:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ok, totally silent in JAWS?
[13:16:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It has also been tested under Win 7 and it seems that it doesn't work, although the link to the "live region sampe page" I posted earlier does seem to, I don't know what's going on there
[13:16:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Maybe you can do me a favour...
[13:16:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> can you unpack all the features included in your patch?
[13:16:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What does the Reorderer attempt to do in 1.3 that it didn't do in 1.2?
[13:16:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Further, I attempted to revive FLUID-3707 and wrap the reorderer in an "application" role div so that it is not necessary to manually put the reader into "focus mode"
[13:16:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[13:16:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that didn't work, eh?
[13:16:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Unfortunately this breaks the component entirely since it causes the screenreader to drop back into browse mode with EVERY KEYPRESS
[13:17:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> only in nvda? or jaws too?
[13:17:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The 1.3 Reorderer does the following: i) Every cell comes attached with an aria-label which provides information on the coordinate position of the cell, as well as deriving part of the label from a nominated selector attached to the node
[13:18:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ii) On a move, the aria-label for the just-moved element is temporarily updated to report the fact that it moved and the coordinates it moved from (if you wave the mouse pointer over this without changing focus, you hear it)
[13:19:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> iii) In addition to ii), the same text attached to the "temporary label" is also issued into a live-region with priority "polite" which should then dynamically announce the fact of the move after the keypress
[13:20:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I can't test anything under JAWS myself, so I can't report
[13:20:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Not having the "modest fee" of $1000 necessary to install this piece of software essential to millions (tongue)
[13:20:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Have you tried the JAWS 30-minute demo in a VM?
[13:20:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That's pretty remarkable since this is now around 3x the cost of a cheap PC just by itself
[13:21:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[13:21:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's insane
[13:21:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I haven't
[13:21:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[13:21:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, out of those three things you so clearly outlined
[13:22:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So, I don't know if anyone has managed to reproduce my success of the component under NVDA 2010.2 and Windows XP
[13:22:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you give me a sense of if any of them work, and under what circumstances?
[13:22:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm installing the final release of 2010.2 now
[13:22:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and will help play around
[13:22:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> If anyone can, I think that might mean it would be worth committing this stuff since it would clearly make things better for SOMEBODY and presumably makes it worse for nobody
[13:22:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but my goal is to figure out how to wrap this up so we can ship
[13:22:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's they key question, Bosmon
[13:22:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Thanks for raising it
[13:22:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can we keep this stuff in--does it make life worse for anyone?
[13:23:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Certainly before the patch, the entire component was silent all the time
[13:23:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Or does it at least represent a theoretical improvement, which may become concretely useful if the ATs fix some bugs?
[13:23:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I assume that even if iii) breaks, we are still getting something out of i) and ii)
[13:24:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, colinclark: i've just returned from testing on our winxp machine here.. my vm totally locked up on me
[13:24:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ouch, Justin_o
[13:24:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> how did you fare?
[13:25:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so it was reading the positions with NVDA and FF
[13:25:54 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> in IE8 it would just say something like "dragging"
[13:26:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I tried Jaws 11... it didn't say anything
[13:26:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Justin_o: Did you get dynamic announcements when using the keyboard under NVDA and FF?
[13:26:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That is, when you pressed CTRL-arrow on an element, did a message read "moved to position xxxx"?
[13:26:57 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: yes.. it would say something like moved item 1 of 3 from column 3 of 3 to 2 of 3 of column 3 of 3
[13:27:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, that's great
[13:27:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This patch then certainly serves some kind of constituency of users (tongue)
[13:27:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ones using one version of one AT on one browser on one OS
[13:27:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Marvellous.....
[13:27:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This is great news
[13:27:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> (smile)
[13:28:18 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: as you say.. better than nothing on any browser, with any AT, on any OS
[13:28:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thankfully it is the most common browser for such users on the most common OS they might have and the version of the AT that costs nothing
[13:28:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: not sure it is the most common broswser
[13:28:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I imagine it is the most common browser for AT users
[13:29:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: You mean Firefox?
[13:29:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since they will be already used to everything breaking on all the others (smile)
[13:30:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes.. it works best on firefox
[13:30:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So Bosmon and Justin_o
[13:30:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can confirm that the final release of NVDA 2010.2 seems to have regressed on the progress bar
[13:30:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not getting anything from the Progress demo
[13:30:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "glarg"
[13:30:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: if you remove the ariabusytext string... does it work then?
[13:31:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Lemme find out
[13:32:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So Justin_o, back to the Reorderer
[13:32:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We should make a call on this
[13:32:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Should we let it into 1.3?
[13:33:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Running the risk that it regresses on something that we catch in QA
[13:33:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But with the benefit that it is a substantial improvement
[13:33:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> at least on one browser/AT combination
[13:34:02 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I'm waiting on some info from people for 3881 - how could I be most helpful in the meantime? pick off some code reviews? any in particular?
[13:34:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i'd say yes to the code reviews... the ones needing review are all on the latest bug parade.michelled do you know of any off the top of your head that would be good for anastasiac to dive into
[13:35:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: We haven't really split up the reviews appropriately yet
[13:35:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so can you run anything you pull off the stack by me first?
[13:36:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I am hoping michelled and I can coordinate the list here in a few moments
[13:36:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: So what do you think, King?
[13:36:15 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> sure - that's why I was asking - I don't want to just start reviewing something that someone else is already reviewing
[13:36:47 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, just looking at the list now - it's pretty long (smile)
[13:36:59 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o: has anything move to 'needs review' since Saturday?
[13:37:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: hmm... it's a tough one... i'm sort of leaning towards yes to committing it since this is supposed to be a big a11y fix release
[13:37:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: i don't think so
[13:37:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i think i've just removed stuff from there
[13:37:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: You made a list on Saturday, split up by component, right?
[13:37:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: maybe some of the uploader stuff
[13:37:47 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ya, it was easier for me to see what was what
[13:38:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Justin_o: I have reviewed FLUID-3288 and found it good - I was thinking we even need a further JIRA disposition, "Requires Review"
[13:38:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> in addition to the "Requires commit" that we created
[13:40:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Anything else the King should consider while deciding Reorderer?
[13:40:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You feel good about the state of the patch?
[13:40:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Obvious questions like, "green bars?" etc.
[13:40:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, I think the other thing which is "morally fixed" is that this patch uses the more correct strategy of applying "aria-label" rather than "aria-labelledby" which is in trunk
[13:41:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung the pager is lookin good i think for 1.3, do you want to look it over too before we close this one? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3822
[13:41:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> We had a private conversation at the weekend where I think we deduced that the latter is in appropriate in the case where we have the processing horsepower to render the label completely
[13:41:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> sorry, the latter is inappropriate
[13:41:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[13:41:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And therefore this is a much simpler implementation
[13:41:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll update Uploader accordingly in the next release
[13:41:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we'll have to look at others
[13:41:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And doesn't need to create "mouse droppings" all over the DOM for labels
[13:41:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[13:41:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: Didn't you say you were using my "little component" already?
[13:41:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[13:42:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In which case applying my patch will just shift you over to the new strategy
[13:42:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[13:42:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The API of the little component I believe is unchanged
[13:42:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: This is your call entirely
[13:42:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But I'm a +1 for including these fixes in 1.3
[13:42:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although some of the test cases needed to be adjusted
[13:42:43 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: okay
[13:42:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since they used to test physically for the presence of the label element in the document
[13:42:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Do they fail?
[13:42:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, I fixed them
[13:43:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung when you got time - not sure what else yr working on
[13:43:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Clearly the patch includes a working set of test cases (tongue)
[13:43:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[13:43:37 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_ getting rid of those pesky DOS line returns. I have something working, but wanted to double check the mods before committing.
[13:43:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Progress does beep nicely and ascendingly when aria-text is not included
[13:43:47 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> werd up
[13:43:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so it's our same old bug, back in the release version
[13:43:54 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: can you take a look at FLUID-3288
[13:43:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: That's very interesting
[13:43:57 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: did you want to try it in uploader first to make sure that your use of the little component still works
[13:44:04 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, will do
[13:44:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I will do that now
[13:44:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> also, anastasiac, can you figure out the status of 3862? It might have been committed or might not have
[13:44:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then we need to make a call here
[13:44:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> because I can predict that jhung might have a conflict once this patch goes in
[13:44:42 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, check on 3862 - I'll investigate
[13:44:49 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thx
[13:45:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: What do you mean by "aria-text"?
[13:45:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry, Bosmon, I mean aria-busytext
[13:45:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> for the progress bar
[13:45:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ah ok
[13:45:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's the same old bug
[13:45:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Bug in the AT?
[13:45:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they had partially addressed it in 2010.2b2
[13:45:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes, in NVDA
[13:45:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> JAWS does the right thing
[13:45:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think it was implemented this way so the integrator would at least have the option to make it work
[13:46:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[13:46:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> not that they will ever have a clue about it
[13:46:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I still don't see "aria-busytext" in the spec
[13:46:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry
[13:46:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> again
[13:46:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> aria-valuetext
[13:46:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm rushing
[13:46:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[13:46:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok, now I understand
[13:46:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So - with valuetext, does it at least announce the text which you supply?
[13:47:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Are we expected it to BOTH announce text, AND to beep?
[13:47:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: nvda won't do anything, at least that's the old bug
[13:47:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Anything at all?
[13:47:22 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o: 3844 has been reviewed already - yura_ made the patch and Bosmon reviewed and committed it
[13:47:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> michelled: thanks
[13:48:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I found that it will make the announcement if you update BOTH aria-valuenow and aria-valuetext
[13:48:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Is this what we are doing?
[13:49:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let me chcek
[13:49:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes, we're doing both
[13:49:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> hum (sad)
[13:50:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so let me apply Bosmon's patch, I'll retest the Uploader
[13:50:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then Justin_o can make his final decision on FLUID-3711
[13:51:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes.. let me know how it goes?
[13:51:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> will do
[13:54:32 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: next on your list, if you don't mind: FLUID-3842, FLUID-3448
[13:54:46 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, certainly
[13:55:02 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: those two might actually still need to be committed.
[13:55:10 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> k
[13:57:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, michelled: FYI 3862 checks out - the fix is in the code base. I've commented on the JIRA to that effect. On to 3842...
[13:58:34 CST(-0600)] <jhung> fluid-everyone: I'm about to strip CR/LFs from the infusion source code.
[13:58:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: Please don't
[13:58:46 CST(-0600)] <jhung> k
[13:58:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We need to wait to make a decision on Antranig's patch
[13:58:55 CST(-0600)] <jhung> ah. okay.
[13:58:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry dude
[13:59:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> shouldn't be too long
[13:59:11 CST(-0600)] <jhung> no worries.
[14:02:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Since when did Infusion get the name "fluid-trunk" for a project name in Eclipse?
[14:02:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And do we really want that?
[14:04:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: I think I can actually hear our live region being interrupted by NVDA reading out the fact that focus moved back onto the page
[14:05:01 CST(-0600)] <mlam> for the afterFileDialog?
[14:05:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[14:06:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Remind me again which version of NVDA you're running?
[14:06:39 CST(-0600)] <mlam> 2010 2b2
[14:07:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[14:07:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does that version read "application" every time you focus something in the Uploader?
[14:07:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Like, for example, if you arrow around in the file queue
[14:07:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does it read "application" and then the associated aria-label?
[14:07:49 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'll double check for you now.
[14:10:00 CST(-0600)] <mlam> not always
[14:10:22 CST(-0600)] <mlam> it seems to only read out application when i first enter the file queue
[14:10:34 CST(-0600)] <mlam> but doesn't as i traverse through the file queue
[14:12:30 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: looking at FLUID-3822 now.
[14:12:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Seems like it's become annoyingly persistent in the final release of 2010.2
[14:13:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon, Justin_o I'd like to confirm what I'm hearing with you two
[14:13:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> First, Uploader still works fine with Bosmon's change to the ariaLabeller component
[14:13:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Secondly, I'm seeing various bits of confusing behaviour
[14:13:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> perhaps intentional, perhaps not
[14:13:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> First, the Layout Reorderer's user experience is exceptional in NVDA
[14:13:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Tells me lots
[14:14:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> including where I moved from
[14:14:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Image Reorderer seems great, too
[14:15:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Grid Reorderer, without having changed modes, seems weirdly "vaguely" keyboard controllable
[14:15:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but not in the ways I'd expect
[14:15:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In focus mode, it's great too
[14:16:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> All of our Reorderer demos now have wrapping disabled
[14:16:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is this by design?
[14:18:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: all but list i think
[14:18:24 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> and yes.. this was specifically implemented in the demos
[14:18:55 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: wrapping should be enabled for Image.
[14:19:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Yes, I can confirm that everything but list has wrapping disabled
[14:19:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so I'm now pretty happy with this patch
[14:20:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and can confirm that it doesn't have a negative impact on the Uploader
[14:20:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Your turn
[14:20:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay.. then i'd say... if it passes review.. we should commit it...
[14:20:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay
[14:21:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Do you want me to go ahead and commit it
[14:21:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> even if patch hates your patch?
[14:21:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks, please do
[14:21:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm sure it will stop hating it once it is committed (tongue)
[14:21:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o has any work been started on http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3879
[14:21:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> (read me)
[14:22:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: When you committed Harris' patch for version numbers, you also committed a change to the Eclipse project name
[14:22:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: anastasiac has started it
[14:22:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> at r10371
[14:22:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> but there is likely more needed by the end of it all
[14:23:23 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I've committed a first patch - did you have more info to add?
[14:23:28 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: what did you use to test FLUID-3822?
[14:23:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark: ack! whoops!
[14:23:36 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I'll fix that now...
[14:23:43 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> sorry about that
[14:24:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> anastasiac nope just looking to be of use
[14:24:23 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o: 3494 was reviewed and closed
[14:25:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: You have a bit of commented-out code in your patch, which we talked about the other day
[14:25:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a
[14:25:44 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung keyboard and mouse in FF, safari mac and FF, IE win. voice over and tried nvda again in my VM, but switching to testing on a real win machine. i think virtualbox has issues
[14:25:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> at the time, you suggested leaving it in as a record of work
[14:25:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> now that it is working, shall I remove it?
[14:26:13 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: perfect. Just need to document that before closing the issue.
[14:26:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung the sort is still weird with nvda , but i think it's the best we can do. one mode tells you the name of the col, the other tells you the sorting status
[14:26:39 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> so you kinda have to switch back and forth to get all the info
[14:26:40 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: yeah.
[14:27:09 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: it's a bit buggy. Hopefully we can improve that. We should make sure to put a jira in so we don't forget to revisit it later.
[14:27:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i think it's doc on the jira for the sort issue, but not sure
[14:28:12 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, I committed a fix to that renaming error - thanks for catching that!
[14:28:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: I think it should be different commented-out code this time (tongue)
[14:29:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, yes
[14:29:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> reasonable
[14:29:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> there is one other spot
[14:30:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> line 281 of Reorderer.js: //$(thatReorderer.activeItem).removeClass(options.styles.selected);
[14:30:14 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: re: pager sort. Yer right. It's here: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3850 and still Open.
[14:30:38 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: FLUID-3822 has been resolved. Close?
[14:31:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: if it's been tested and reviewed it can be closed
[14:31:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That's odd... that is probably a more ancestral comment
[14:31:49 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: k
[14:31:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I don't believe it is part of the patch
[14:32:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Okay
[14:34:26 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: how does the target/sakai-imagegallery2-web-SNAPSHOT directory get generated in the image gallery? the source in that directory is very out of date causing the image gallery to not pick up on the new framework changes
[14:35:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Okay, your patch is in
[14:35:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Congrats
[14:35:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll do a full code review once we do our review of Uploader together
[14:35:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: You're now free to update the line endings
[14:35:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And
[14:35:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And we should now consider trunk completely frozen except for issues emerging from code review
[14:35:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> (smile)
[14:36:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And those should be passed by the King before hand
[14:36:11 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, I've reviewed and committed FLUID-3842 and FLUID-3448. Justin_o, it would be great if you could test the fix for 3448 in Vista, since I don't have that OS, and that's where the bug was observed.
[14:36:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks, colinclark
[14:36:16 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, what's next? (wink)
[14:36:22 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: roger that.
[14:36:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Can you remind me of any particular issues that people are still free to commit against?
[14:36:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm thinking jhung's line endings fix, for example
[14:36:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I presume I can commit against 3881
[14:37:17 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, yes, please commit against 3881 (smile)
[14:38:18 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: should I generate a patch for FLUID-3778 or a commit is okay?
[14:39:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung for pager, how do you read the tool tip on nvda ?
[14:39:17 CST(-0600)] <jhung> It doesn't.
[14:39:32 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: nothing gets read. anything in voice over?
[14:39:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that would be the general issues, those uploader blockers you have, and any that were marked as for review but have patches that haven't gone in..
[14:40:08 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: any chance we can make a few tweaks to 3283? is it you or heidi_ i should talk to?
[14:40:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: To the best of my knowledge, the Uploader issues should be all done
[14:41:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Let's be more specific
[14:41:07 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: either of us. Heidi may be in a better position as I'm in the middle of a commit.
[14:41:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Name the general issues you're current awaiting commits against
[14:41:25 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: do you have a moment?
[14:41:42 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: 3829
[14:41:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> got it
[14:41:55 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm sure, what would you like to change?
[14:42:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: let me gather my ideas and then i'll send here, in the channel?
[14:42:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> give me a minute
[14:42:50 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm sure
[14:43:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: FLUID-3881, FLUID-3879, FLUID-3778
[14:43:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: It's generated by Maven
[14:44:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: In cases of doubt, chuck your .m2 repository and build from scratch
[14:44:21 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok
[14:45:16 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: FLUID-3828 is related and there may have been some commits for it already. I hope everything that was supposed to be committed was but there aren't enough comments on the JIRA to know for sure. can you look into it and straighten it out?
[14:45:30 CST(-0600)] <michelled> if there needs to be a commit we'd better vet it with the KING first
[14:45:57 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, will do
[14:48:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac, michelled: the first part to FLUID-3828 and FLUID-3829 should have gone in together in a single commit
[14:48:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: I'm seeing the same crustiness problem
[14:49:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Scares the hell out of me
[14:49:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> the second commit which was a fix from heidi to switch to label for the current page, instead of describedby should have been another commit
[14:49:30 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ditto (sad)
[14:50:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: have you committed FLUID-3778 yet?
[14:50:16 CST(-0600)] <jhung> going in now...
[14:50:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks
[14:50:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I have resolved http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3711 and made note of the fact that I need to code review it.
[14:51:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[14:51:05 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung yeah can't read tooltips with VO, but i thought i could... i wonder if something changed
[14:52:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_, jhung: you should have been able to read the tooltips at least with NVDA and FF
[14:53:06 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o trying now
[14:53:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: okay
[14:53:27 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o, colinclark: need a hand.
[14:54:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: do you have a copy of vista at home by any chance?
[14:54:05 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: can you look into FLUID-3850 and FLUID-3849? I think they were fixed by a commit to a different JIRA which already went through review
[14:54:19 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, I'll add them to the list
[14:54:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: ok
[14:54:26 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o fine in nvda/ff
[14:54:31 CST(-0600)] <jhung> I just committed the changes for line endings, but some images appear to have been touched. Can you confirm that they came through okay? (They seem fine in ubuntu, but appear broken in Windows. See Layout Reorderer demo for example).
[14:54:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: okay..thanks
[14:56:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: I'm confused why any images were changed
[14:56:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> surely they're not in plain text
[14:56:15 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: same here.
[14:56:38 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: seems it's the PNGs?
[14:56:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's what the commit log says, yes
[14:57:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we need to back this commit out, just in principle
[14:57:12 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: weird, because my SVN diff reported it was ignoring those changes.
[14:57:25 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: yes.
[14:57:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you want me to do it?
[14:57:47 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: yes please.
[14:57:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you make me a patch with the DOS line ending changes in it?
[14:58:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> assuming such changes can even survive being transmitted in a patch?
[14:58:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: do you know why the keyboard cmds are in a different place (bottom) and in the demo on List reorderer?
[14:58:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> Colinclark: It appears the changes survive the patch. Although applying the patch in Windows does nothing.
[14:58:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[14:59:16 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and layout
[14:59:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: The images themselves are fine, but the fact that they all changed is in itself a problem
[14:59:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> s
[14:59:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So I'll go ahead and back out the change
[14:59:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then apply your patch
[15:00:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> strangeness all around
[15:00:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm jhung and jameswy moved them to the bottom (so not to confuse it's not keyboard only) ... but i think they should be on top (for screenreaders)
[15:00:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> not sure why some are bottom and some aren't
[15:00:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: they aren't consistently one way or the other so no one is happy
[15:00:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok, here goes – i'm going to go demo-by-demo
[15:00:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung was there a reason you guys only moved the keyboard commands to the bottom for some
[15:01:08 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm would email be easier?
[15:01:10 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: jhung: I think they should go to the top on all fwiw
[15:01:34 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: patch attached to http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3778
[15:01:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, jhung
[15:01:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: i'm not sure to be honest re: email
[15:02:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm maybe email me your list... easier to keep track/copy paste stuff. chat's busy today
[15:02:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm, heidi_: Better yet, stick it on the JIRA
[15:03:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> agreed
[15:03:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i don't understand why there are three different ways we show the keyboard commands
[15:03:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: Your patch has changes to all the binary files in it, too
[15:04:27 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm i'll make them consistently at the top, within frame.
[15:04:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: hold on a second
[15:04:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> just reorderer for now ?
[15:04:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ok
[15:04:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: i think they should all be like grid
[15:04:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: is that what you mean as within frame?
[15:05:14 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah
[15:05:40 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinclark: looking at it now. I see the binary files listed, but doesn't appear changes were made?
[15:05:51 CST(-0600)] <jhung> chrm
[15:07:32 CST(-0600)] <jhung> colinckar: Let's roll back and let someone else take this. I don't want to mess this up even more. :/
[15:08:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jhung: that's such a device looking smile
[15:08:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> devious
[15:08:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> not device (smile)
[15:09:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, I'll pick up the DOS line endings fix
[15:09:55 CST(-0600)] <jhung> justin_o: That's my "no business touching svn" smilie.
[15:10:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I need a favour from you, dude
[15:10:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you make me us a comprehensive list of issues we can still safely commit against
[15:10:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ?
[15:10:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sure
[15:11:03 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Here now.
[15:11:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: we have 3 ways by my count that we put the keyboard commands into the demos. I'm just looking at renderer, list, grid, image, and layout
[15:12:09 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: Justin_o and I are compiling the list now
[15:12:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> excellent
[15:12:16 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: i'm thinking we should make them consistent and the way they appear in grid
[15:12:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: thoughts?
[15:12:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Perhaps you can also put people's names beside each one, michelled and Justin_o
[15:12:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: any luck getting the gallery to build?
[15:12:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm stuck in Maven hell
[15:12:53 CST(-0600)] <mlam> no, i'm still working on it
[15:13:15 CST(-0600)] <mlam> i'm starting from scratch again.
[15:13:35 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: I think that's reasonable. No sense putting the keyboard commands in different places for each of the demos.
[15:14:16 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Is there any reason why we might want to customize the location of the instructions/commands per demo?
[15:14:26 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ok, there are 3 JIRAs which can be committed against.
[15:14:57 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jameswy, jessm: you want to do that for 1.3?
[15:14:57 CST(-0600)] <michelled> FLUID-3881 and FLUID-3879 are in anastasiac's hands. Other people can commit against them but only with her permissions
[15:15:13 CST(-0600)] <michelled> FLUID-3778 is in colinclark's hands
[15:15:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: we have to make changes to the text as it is
[15:15:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: which jira is that for?
[15:15:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> 3283
[15:15:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: for any other commits, please check with Justin_o here
[15:15:56 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Justin_o: I don't see why not--it wouldn't require much change to the code base and should be fairly straightforward?
[15:16:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o i can do it quickly, but would need someone to review/commit
[15:16:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm, jameswy: that jira was already closed... so what did you want to change
[15:17:18 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o location of keyboard command instructions
[15:17:30 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> to top of each demo, consistently
[15:17:45 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: heidi_: jameswy: hold on a sec
[15:17:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: we have grammar issues in the text – it's got to get changed
[15:18:16 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm yeah the "arrow keys moves" ?
[15:18:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: we also have inconsistency to the point of confusion with the location of the keyboard command text
[15:18:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: among others, unfortunately
[15:18:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay....
[15:19:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: so, i guess the question for you King is: 1. can we change the text for this release? and 2. can we change the location of the keyboard controls?
[15:19:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i've reopened the jira
[15:19:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: i think that's fine for both
[15:19:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> k, we're on it!
[15:19:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> do you already have an idea of what you want the text to say now
[15:20:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yes
[15:20:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm thanks
[15:20:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: i have the text now and am just going back through one more time and will attach my txt file to the jira then ping heidi_ and jameswy to have a look – sound ok?
[15:20:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> actually, jameswy heidi_ i guess it should be reviewed by you two first?
[15:21:36 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: I'd love to take a peek at it now, and I'm sure heidi_ would too, (smile)
[15:21:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: heidi_ i'll upload and then ping y'all
[15:22:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah just add to jira - cool
[15:22:12 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Sounds good.
[15:23:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jameswy , are you cool with it going up top? i think you and jhung were concerned it could feel like a keyboard-only component.
[15:24:23 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: by top you mean within the frame of the demo, right?
[15:24:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> within the frame, ya
[15:25:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> a la grid reorderer http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/reorderer/gridReorderer/demo.html
[15:25:38 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: if we move the instructions to the top, then we'll probably need to mention mouse instructions too.
[15:26:13 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> could do. might be nice
[15:26:15 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: so maybe "Use the mouse to reorder items, or use ..."
[15:26:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: pretty easy fix Drag and drop items with the mouse.
[15:27:04 CST(-0600)] <jhung> yea
[15:27:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm what do you think about some instructions being outside the frame, and others inside? i feel like both should be inside
[15:28:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> but that might be a larger issue for 1.4
[15:28:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: give me and jameswy 5 minutes – we're discussing
[15:28:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I just got a note from JURA explaining that a recent change in Infusion trunk is breaking a lot of CollectionSpace - I imagine that the best solution to this is to create a "new trunk branch" for CSpace to follow during this release process?
[15:28:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: we'll add you on skype?
[15:28:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What should we call this
[15:28:26 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sure jessm
[15:28:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: you too?
[15:28:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: what's breaking and why?
[15:28:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> wondering if this is a bigger issue that we need to address now or not?
[15:29:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, there is a fault in an implementation of part of IoC
[15:29:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I don't know
[15:29:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I assume it is too late to fix this now
[15:29:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: can't seem to add you
[15:29:27 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: I guess tht would depend on if it is a blocker or not...
[15:29:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, how could we tell (smile)
[15:29:41 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i mean i guess we are saying it is sneak peek so maybe it's okay
[15:29:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I believe that the implementation of a new function "primeCacheFromResources" will probably break for everyone
[15:30:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon, Justin_o: One of the ways we could tell is if it had any impact on anything shipping in Infusion
[15:30:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: (sad)
[15:30:06 CST(-0600)] <jhung> jessm: weird. I see you fine. Did you get my ping?
[15:30:24 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, colinclark: where do we use it?
[15:30:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or if it's an issue that our users have a high likelihood of hitting themselves
[15:30:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If I remember correctly, this is the thing that formerly and famously used to be named something incoherent...
[15:30:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> s
[15:31:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> something about proleptic join sets?
[15:31:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> maybe with some Ks or double consonants mixed in there as well
[15:31:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ?
[15:32:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Quick question?
[15:32:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Has someone updated the version number for Infusion in the Maven pom.xml file?
[15:32:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i believe they should be updated, yes
[15:33:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ah, yes, anastasiac and harris
[15:33:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes
[15:33:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, I have just checked the test cases and they are passing... I'm asking Yura to investigate
[15:33:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can I implore whoever updates the version number for Infusion to also remember to keep the Image Gallery POMs in sync?
[15:33:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Mike and I have been struggling for a bit trying to get gallery to build due to this
[15:33:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The issue might be a bit more subtle than I was thinking
[15:33:39 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, "proleptic joinsets"
[15:33:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which so far as I know have not yet received a "better" name (tongue)
[15:34:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I don't know if there's maybe some way to mention it in the JIRA or something
[15:34:49 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: we should update the release process page... the trick is that the image gallery sits outside of trunk which is why we always miss it
[15:35:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: so what does it do exactly
[15:35:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> this thing that may be broken
[15:36:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Any chance you'd be willing to quickly update the release process page to make mention of the Image Gallery when updating version numbers in Infusion?
[15:37:15 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, michelled: regarding FLUID-3828 and 3829: I've commented on the jira's to the effect that 3828 seems fine - working as expected with a screen reader, but 3829 doesn't seem to have successfully made it from the aegis branch to trunk: the current page is still reading "link"
[15:37:31 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> colinclark, will do
[15:38:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: really... i thought that was working now..
[15:38:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> hmm..
[15:38:37 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: you tested that part after you changed to label right?
[15:39:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o nvda/ff says current page
[15:39:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> it's in the build
[15:39:25 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I just tested the build site with both NVDA and Jaws, and both said "link" when you tabbed to the current page. It does say "current page" but it also says "link"
[15:39:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> but it's not a link
[15:39:49 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> 3829 was about getting it to not say "link"
[15:39:54 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: it is a link now, unfortunately...
[15:39:56 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> ah
[15:40:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> we had to make it a link again in order to preserver the tab order after changing the page
[15:40:14 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> {color}
[15:40:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> but it's disabled, isn't it, Justin_o? shouldn't it say something about that? or was that a decision to go ahead and let it say link?

[15:41:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: that might make more sense if it said disabled link.. although i think we tried this at one point and it didn't work
[15:42:10 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> that's why we added the information that it was the current page
[15:42:17 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> so do we consider this as fixed as it's going to get?
[15:42:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Justin_o: This "thing" allows a component to initiate some I/O that may or may not in the future become integrated into an upcoming joinset
[15:42:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is, though I say it, quite a clever feature (tongue)
[15:42:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think maybe we should leave it open, with a comment... i don't think we'll do any more work for this release though
[15:42:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The I/O may complete before the future joinset exists, in which case everything is fine
[15:43:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> or there may never be a joinset, in which case everything is also fine
[15:43:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> However, the I/O may not complete, and someone may issue a joinset which they want to block on the completion of the I/O
[15:43:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In which case the I/O request needs to be "grandfathered in" from its current process of incompletion, and added to the new set
[15:44:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It solves a lot of issues that we have in trying to figure out WHO exactly should be responsible for loading markup templates that are required by subcomponents
[15:44:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Really, by the time you come to actually construct the subcomponent itself, it is too late
[15:44:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: +1 for updating the to fix to 1.4 and leaving FLUID-3829 for this release
[15:44:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This route forces you into the really awful approach of writing a component that MAY NOT actually construct when you tell it to, but instead issue some I/O and wait for a template
[15:45:36 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: so you mean it will block forever potentially?
[15:45:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The concept of "proleptic joinsets" allows us to deal with this issue in a general kind of way without yet having to commit to any particular approach for 2-phase rendering
[15:47:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: thanks
[15:47:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Okay so probably nowhere in infusion would we use this at the moment
[15:49:31 CST(-0600)] <yura_> Justin_o, Bosmon, seems like 2 dead mans blur unit tests fail in IE8 as part of fluid view tests
[15:49:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: just noticed that the ModelTransformationsTests.html file's name breaks convention
[15:49:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> this means it won't be picked up by testswarm
[15:50:32 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Justin_o: yura_'s finding actually show a bug in deadMansBlur which has been opened as a blocker for the cspace release
[15:50:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: What's the convention?
[15:51:00 CST(-0600)] <michelled> do you think it would also be a blocker for the Infusion release?
[15:51:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> should end in "-test.html"
[15:51:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: ^
[15:51:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> urg
[15:51:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Would you like me to fix it?
[15:51:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Who knew naming had anything to do with anything?
[15:52:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is TestSwarm really that brittle?
[15:52:19 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: well.. the perl script is unfortunately
[15:52:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Resig and his weekend projects (tongue)
[15:52:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is this something you'd look kindly on me fixing?
[15:52:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Thanks for catching it, I'm really sorry
[15:53:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do the progressive enhancement tests have the same problem?
[15:53:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> where are those ones?
[15:54:11 CST(-0600)] <yura_> michelled: basically the blur triggers in cases when it isn't supposed to e.g. for exclusions
[15:54:36 CST(-0600)] <yura_> it might have something to do with the use of focusin instead of focus
[15:55:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: have they disappeared?
[15:56:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yura_, Bosmon: all of the tests fail in IE 6
[15:57:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: are they supposed to be in the framework tests
[15:57:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they were
[15:57:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> bloody bloody hell
[15:57:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Were those tests just a figment of my imagination?
[15:57:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I swear michelled even reviewed them
[15:58:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> They're all just gone
[15:59:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> this is just devastating
[16:00:23 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ya, I reviewed progressive enhancement tests
[16:00:42 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it was on Friday night
[16:00:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: What JIRA do you want me to commit the renaming of the ModelTransformationsTests.html under?
[16:01:32 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: either the unit test one or the code cleanup
[16:02:14 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, Justin_o: Regarding FLUID-3849/3850: These deal with the aria-sort property on Pager. The "proper" fix has been committed and looks good, but ATs don't' support the property yet, so the user experience problems described by the JIRAs remain. We would need to implement some other additional work-around, which I suspect won't happen. I'd suggest we punt it to 1.4, and make a note of it in the Known Issues in the README.
[16:02:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: So, I guess I need to beg your Kingly mercy
[16:02:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> My unit tests for ProgressiveEnhancement seem to be just gone
[16:02:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you had asked for them before we could close the relevant JIRA
[16:02:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not going to rewrite those tests today
[16:03:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Flat out
[16:04:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "gone"?
[16:04:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As in, somehow destroyed from SVN?
[16:04:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Gone as in "didn't get committed"
[16:04:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ouch
[16:04:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Working copy long deleted
[16:04:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's my own fault
[16:04:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> No chance of getting it from "Local history"?
[16:04:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what is local history?
[16:04:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I found the lifetime of that was longer than you'd think
[16:04:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> When I talked THER KINGG through it
[16:04:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You know, my one hope might be my own backups
[16:04:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that trick from bosmon worked well for me for the tooltip wrapper.. recovered from like 4 days past
[16:04:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm amazed how many people don't know about "Local History"
[16:05:06 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But..... actually you hate Eclipse don't you
[16:05:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what is it?
[16:05:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Perhaps you were editing all this stuff in vi or something? (tongue)
[16:05:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I not only hate Eclipse, I actively don't use it
[16:05:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is an Eclipse feature that snapshots all of your working files extremely regularly
[16:05:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It has been a lifesaver on many occasions
[16:07:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I wonder how michelled could ever have reviewed them if they were never committed
[16:08:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I was sitting beside him (tongue)
[16:08:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Could someone else please take this DOS line endings issue of my hands?
[16:08:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> hah!
[16:08:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm going to try to restore from Saturday's backup and see if anything's left
[16:08:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark, I will deal with it
[16:08:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then I need to debug something with the Image Gallery
[16:08:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks, Bosmon
[16:10:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Is there a JIRA number for line endings?
[16:10:47 CST(-0600)] <michelled> 3778
[16:11:59 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_, jessm: I got to get the kids. I can help with patching the instructions if needed.
[16:13:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: i think the issue with the DMB is a blocker...
[16:14:01 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> the test just don't work in IE
[16:14:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> glurh
[16:14:24 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm not sure about the other IoC one since the IoC is just sneak peek right now
[16:15:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I've committed the unit test HTML file name change
[16:15:20 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[16:16:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Now I will enter the slow, overly fancy black hole they call Time Machine and see what I can recover
[16:18:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok... ready to commit for 3778
[16:18:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I guess it is fairly clear it is working since it is mainly hitting files created by ME (tongue)
[16:18:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[16:18:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I must change that default setting in Eclipse...
[16:18:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Go ahead and commit, Bosmon
[16:18:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hurray, the tests are here!
[16:19:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hopefully it recovered the ones that actually worked (smile)
[16:20:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I guess we can't have ever normalised this efore
[16:20:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> before
[16:20:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since it is catching "FluidDebugging.js"
[16:20:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which I guess I created nearly a year ago
[16:20:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That seems odd
[16:20:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> During the Engage era....
[16:20:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since we are supposed to do this every release
[16:21:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Also "JavaProperties.js"
[16:21:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which I made even longer ago (tongue)
[16:22:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is it possible they crept back in when you last edited those files?
[16:22:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I don't think so, no
[16:22:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> My feeling is that we didn't actually do this for the 1.2 release
[16:23:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I mean, I've made edits to all kinds of files in the framework, but it is only the ones that I remember originating that have the DOS-style
[16:24:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> how sad, is is an older version of my tests
[16:24:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the ones that pass accidentally
[16:25:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok everyone, line endings are in
[16:25:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: Any chance you remember any of the substance of your review the other day?
[16:25:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Please update immediately or you will get massive conflicts
[16:26:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As I just did wrt. anastasiac's recent commit (tongue)
[16:26:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: there was one test I asked you to write - an edge case
[16:27:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled> but I can't remember the details
[16:27:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> fluid-everyone: Please update your working copies of trunk. Bosmon changed line endings, which has a high likelihood of causing conflicts
[16:27:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, who needs edge case tests?
[16:37:49 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, Bosmon, and fluid-everyone: we should talk about those issues that yura brought up
[16:38:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> what your thoughts..
[16:38:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I wasn't really following
[16:38:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: You and I both have the same problem
[16:39:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we forget question marks
[16:39:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you quickly summarize the issues?
[16:39:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay.. 1) DMB is itself dead in IE
[16:39:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> 2) IoC is breaking in cspace for that caching thing that i don't think i could describe
[16:40:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> insert some bozian language about IoC here
[16:40:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: You're saying for #1 that DMB doesn't work at all in IE? Does this manifest itself in any particular components?
[16:40:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: well the unit tests are failing...
[16:40:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: lol, that's more than sufficiently descriptive
[16:40:55 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cspace is breaking
[16:41:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> the only place that i know that uses it is inline edit for the selectbox
[16:41:26 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'll go try them now
[16:49:42 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, colinclark: so the dropdown inline edit manual test page is broken... 1 it wasn't updated after the DMB was moved and two you can no longer select items with the mouse
[17:06:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: how long do you think it might take to address the DMB problem
[17:07:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: so i think you missed my previous coment.. basically the dropdown inline edit no longer works with the mouse
[17:07:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> in I.E 8
[17:07:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[17:07:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That sounds like a blocker in my books
[17:07:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: You think it's fixable?
[17:08:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, Bosmon actually it doesn't work in FF either
[17:08:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Okay, that's about as blocker-ish as we can get
[17:09:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so there was another problem, which was the dependencey was missing... which i added back in manually... i wonder if a missed another one.. but there are no errors
[17:11:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[17:12:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I just committed against FLUID-3872, which was the progressive enhancement JIRA
[17:12:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> added my missing unit tests
[17:13:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[17:13:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry i lost those
[17:13:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so you were able to recover them all
[17:13:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they must have just slipped when I restructured the directories
[17:14:05 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: we've been pretty busy...
[17:14:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> They were about an hour out of date
[17:14:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> unfortunately it was a productive hour
[17:14:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so they're not quite as good as they used to be, but they are green and reasonably comprehensive
[17:14:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that's a lot better than completely lost
[17:15:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[17:15:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> can i help with filing any jiras or sending any emails?
[17:16:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> my first priority, at this point, is help you get home (wink)
[17:16:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: heidi_ and i just made a master file for demo text edits
[17:16:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: we've uploaded it to FLUID-3283
[17:17:16 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: is it ok if she and I split it and bang it out tomorrow a.m.?
[17:17:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o i can work on it tonight too if that's better
[17:17:38 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: i broke protocol and patched a patch w/o knowing it or looking at it
[17:18:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: that's alright.. okay.. how long do you think it will take you tomorrow to get it all done?
[17:18:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: ^
[17:18:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: The King's pretty nice, eh?
[17:18:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "member:jessm: that's alright"
[17:19:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: remind him to be very wary of me doing "patching"
[17:19:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> weird cut and paste
[17:19:30 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: i think heidi_ has stepped away to eat curry; i estimate it will take 2 hrs.
[17:19:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: be wary of doing patches
[17:19:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and Greeks!
[17:20:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay.. that is including commit time
[17:20:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> and review
[17:20:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3898 is a blocker for 1.3
[17:20:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: i was considering it time for me to add the patch properly and time to make the edits
[17:20:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay... i don't think the commit will take too long anyways
[17:21:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: but just to be sure i'll up it to 3hrs. and i think that's very generous
[17:21:10 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: sp we
[17:21:21 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so we're looking at 12 tomorrow?
[17:21:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Okay, I just committed against image gallery to get it all working nicely tomorrow with Uploader
[17:21:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that's the last of my blockers
[17:21:33 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: or heidi_ said she could do it tonight
[17:21:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i have to run for pho
[17:21:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> phone my on my cell if there's anything else you need
[17:21:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> tomorrow, we review!
[17:21:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay.. have a good dinner
[17:21:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and Bosmon fixes his blocker (smile)
[17:21:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> (smile)
[17:22:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i'll be sending out an e-mail to the list shortly
[17:22:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> that should cover everything that needs to be done still
[17:22:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: are all of the demos being touched
[17:22:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: yes
[17:23:05 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: and heidi_ said there might be some styling changes to moving the keyboard stuff up
[17:23:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: can you work on some of it tonight
[17:23:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay... well i don't think we should make heidi_ work all night... we have a bunch of stuff to still do tomorrow so i think tomorrow morning should be fine
[17:23:17 CST(-0600)] <jessm> so we don't hold up the release
[17:23:24 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ah, ok
[17:23:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i think that we can bang it out
[17:23:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay...
[17:23:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i would imagine she can get some help too? do you think?
[17:23:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> we're going to have to be super efficient for our testing
[17:24:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: i guess so..
[17:24:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> how about i just do it tonight?
[17:24:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> prob take me an hour or less
[17:24:25 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oh wow
[17:24:27 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ill add a patch to the jira and someone can review in the morn
[17:24:31 CST(-0600)] <jessm> my estimates were way off
[17:25:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm off to eat curry ill be back soon to get it up - cool?
[17:25:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ^justin_o
[17:25:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: go home, dude (wink)
[17:25:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks..
[17:26:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> go home
[17:26:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay.. I'm going to head off soon.. i'm just about to send out an e-mail with what's left for the release
[17:26:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'm off to walk the dog
[17:26:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: is the weather there okay
[17:26:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: you're my hero
[17:26:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: it's horrible! barely habitable!
[17:27:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yah... pretty cold here.. did you see the Metrodome collapse?
[17:27:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: insanity – the video was way-cool
[17:27:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yes.. it really was.. watching it fall i sort of wondered how it's stayed up this long
[17:28:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: it's fallen 4 times now – in something like 23 years
[17:28:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> not a good trend
[17:28:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok, gotta walk dog – she's doing the peepee dance
[17:29:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: get outta there soon man
[17:29:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jessm: okay.. talk to you tomorrow..