fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-04-25

[08:34:45 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: how'r things?

[08:35:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jessm, good. I'm on a call right now, maybe cindyli can catch you up

[08:35:23 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> cindyli: how are things going?

[08:39:44 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> jessm: anastasiac and i are working on creating another UIO component to transform, get and set gpii preferences from the node server. in good progress. we have the first draft working that does part of the transformation, get and set. the left work is to finish up all the transformations, preserve the gpii preferences that are not UIO applicable and vice verses.

[08:40:55 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> sounds awesome

[08:41:13 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i'm not sure i understand the preserve the preferences that are not UIO applicable?

[08:41:38 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> are those just prefs for which we don't have transformations in UIO

[08:42:47 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes, those non-UIO prefs also need to be sent back to gpii server to avoid the loss of these data

[08:43:46 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> ah

[08:43:59 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, it all sounds good cindyli – anything that is causing problems?

[08:44:37 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> no, we just haven't implement this part yet. it's in today's plan.

[08:45:47 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> cindyli: excellent

[08:45:52 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i feel all caught up

[08:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> great

[09:14:38 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yura, i've modified the pull request that adds tests into uio-gpii-integration (https://github.com/fluid-project/uio-gpii-integration/pull/1), can you have another look? thanks

[09:20:40 CDT(-0500)] <yura> cindyli: i added a couple more comments there

[09:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <yura> for the test case

[09:42:06 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yura: done and pushed. another round? thanks

[09:43:28 CDT(-0500)] <yura> cindyli: thank you ill take a look

[09:43:44 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np, thanks, yura

[10:56:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, FYI, I've pushed the colour conversion code to my github repo. I've also refactored the code to place the actual rules in JSON files

[10:56:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, let me know when you're looking into that media panel problem, I'll come pair with you

[10:59:06 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> thanks, anastasiac, will merge in ur change. if you don't mind i'm eating lunch at the same time of coding, we can start the pair in 2 minutes.

[10:59:29 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, np, no rush! That's why I said "let me know"

[12:05:59 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: ping

[12:06:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hey asteig

[12:06:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Give me a sec

[12:07:23 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: Do you have skype?

[12:07:41 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Usually, but not at work unfortunately.

[12:08:04 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig, okay.

[12:09:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I guess we'll do this old school and type.

[12:09:42 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> So I sent you a document which I hope will get you started asteig.

[12:09:56 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Yep, reading it now!

[12:10:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Let me know when you're done reading it over and we can start top to bottom.

[12:11:43 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, finished reading through it.

[12:11:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> cool.

[12:12:11 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I like the game thing by the way! Sounds like a great way to wrap my head around inclusive design!

[12:12:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> wicked! I admit I was starting to think of ideas myself when I was typing up the doc.

[12:13:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> So to start, we have some common values in the Fluid community. We like to share and be open as much as possible. We like testing a lot which means we discover our failures sooner.

[12:14:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> This makes us nimble and address issues sooner than being surprised by a rats nest of issues weeks down the road.

[12:14:26 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> A question about the testing. Is there some documentation on testing I can read over?

[12:14:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Good question.

[12:14:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Let me dig it up...

[12:15:01 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Here it is: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Testing+Fluid+Components

[12:15:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's for QA testing… we also love unit testing

[12:15:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o is our QA king.

[12:15:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> got a link handy colinclark?

[12:15:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I was just wondering that myself

[12:16:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm sure we've got something

[12:16:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Here are a few things:

[12:16:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Writing+JavaScript+Unit+Tests

[12:16:45 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Thanks Colinclark.

[12:16:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess there are also lots of good examples of tests throughout Infusion

[12:17:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> And of course the Qunit docs: http://docs.jquery.com/Qunit

[12:18:06 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, cool. I will spend some time learning all of this test stuff!

[12:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> So for TDD I would write a test that I know is going to fail and then make it pass, correct?

[12:19:22 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> And I'd break into bits, so I'd start with the first part of the image editor, make it work, then write a test for the second feature, and keep going in that direction?

[12:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark, yura. Do you have experience to share? (I haven't done TDD, or at least probably not the way it's supposed to be done).

[12:20:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yura: Is Mr. TDD these days

[12:21:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> He just gave a workshop on the topic not too long ago

[12:21:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> asteig: But that is exactly the kind of approach you'd take, yes.

[12:21:36 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, cool.

[12:21:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's a pretty satisfying way of developing, because you always know when things are working, and get much less tangled up in your own thoughts and code

[12:22:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig, if you look at November 9, 2011, you will see the presentation colinclark mentioned. yura thoughtfully put the slides up. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Community+workshops

[12:23:05 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Wow, that's very convenient.

[12:23:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Cool.

[12:24:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'm sure if you have any TDD questions, people here are more than willing to help you out.

[12:25:42 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Want to chat about accessibility and the game?

[12:26:32 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Sure.

[12:26:47 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> When you say design, do you mean code or just do mocks and plan it out?

[12:27:05 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I'm thinking maybe Sudoku would be fun to try, but not sure if that would be harder than something like tic tac toe.

[12:27:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: plan it out, draw some pictures. We're not looking for code.

[12:27:43 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay.

[12:27:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> the exercise is to help get us thinking about our audience, their ability, and designing something that works best for them.

[12:28:13 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> That sounds good.

[12:28:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Have you had much experience with accessibility?

[12:29:04 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I know your website was using access keys.

[12:29:23 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Somewhat. I've always been interested in it, and try and keep it in mind when coding, but haven't worked on any large projects or anything.

[12:30:36 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I might be doing it completely wrong, LOL, but there's a ton of little things that I can do when coding a new site to keep accessibility in mind, and I try to do those.

[12:31:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yes that's great!

[12:32:08 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'm going to try to find a presentation for you to get you a good overview of things to keep in mind. jameswy has done lectures on this topic, so I'll find relevent links to pass on to you.

[12:32:20 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Awesome!

[12:33:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> So say you're doing battleship as a game....

[12:34:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> You may want to think of how someone using a keyboard only would play. Or how would voice-over on an iPhone sound like if someone is playing with a broken screen. Or how would it look visually if someone is playing during a lecture with no audio?

[12:35:01 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> How does the navigation work? How does the game give feedback on a hit and miss?

[12:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> lots of interesting questions once you move away from traditional mouse and keyboard interaction.

[12:37:02 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, jotting this stuff down if I'm slow to respond. LOL

[12:37:39 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> So essentially just having lots of alternative ways to do things.

[12:38:34 CDT(-0500)] <boyan> Bosmon: ping

[12:38:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yes, as long as it makes sense to your audience. We like to think about these things early because it affects the way we design and develop something.

[12:39:15 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Makes sense. The design aspect is something I'm excited about. I usually just get mocks after the UI is all sorted out!

[12:39:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I think of it like Windows hot keys. They're always there and they're so natural to use and unobtrusive. It's useful to so many people, but it's not the only way to do an action.

[12:39:56 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Makes sense

[12:40:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Hopefully that gets your creative juices flowing on a killer sudoku.

[12:41:08 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> It definitely does!

[12:41:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> feel free to define your own scope and audience.

[12:42:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Maybe we can talk about project coordination next?

[12:43:05 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> or do you have questions about other things first?

[12:43:26 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Well, question I guess...

[12:43:43 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Pulkit had lots of diagrams and such for the design of the Image Editor last year.

[12:43:54 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Is that a good example of the design plan?

[12:44:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I really don't have a firm answer to that. I think it's worth looking at to see what was done and draw ideas from, but ultimately we want you to have to freedom to do something new or the way you want.

[12:45:28 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, so that answers my question in another way. There's no formal way to do the design mocks etc, as long as I get the point across?

[12:46:16 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> There is a process we go through when designing something... let me try to find it...

[12:46:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Design+Handbook

[12:47:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Those are tools you can use when doing design.

[12:47:15 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Oh wow! That's a lot! Awesome!

[12:47:46 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yeah. We don't use all of them all the time. We use what fits the context, application, budget, time etc.

[12:48:24 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Got it.

[12:48:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> For me, I like to start with research and competitive analysis. I like to see what already exists and see what they do well / poorly.

[12:49:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Then based on requirements, come up with a rough design and pass it around to some people to get their impressions. I do this a few times before settling in on a direction to pursue.

[12:51:07 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, sounds good.

[12:52:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I know there's a lot of info (we like to document a lot!), so don't feel like you need to know it all. Also the community is a good place to seek out answers, advice, etc.

[12:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Yeah, everyone here has already been super nice!

[12:53:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> It's the juice we have... there's something special about it...

[12:53:52 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> LOL

[12:54:16 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Maybe some day someone will document what goes into it and put it on the wiki.

[12:55:17 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Haha!

[12:55:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Any more questions or are you ready to talk about project coordination?

[12:56:38 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> No more questions.

[12:56:43 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Let's talk project coordination!

[12:56:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Cool.

[12:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> So as you probably guessed, we like using this IRC channel to talk. but we also use Skype, jabber/gtalk, and the fluid-work mailing list.

[12:58:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> You should probably subscribe to the mailing list when you get a chance since some people don't use the IRC room.

[12:58:15 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, cool.

[12:59:22 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Subscribed.

[12:59:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> There's a wordpress blog site we have set up so you can blog your progress on the project. I'll get you set up with a username and password.

[12:59:35 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, that's actually really awesome!

[12:59:38 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I wanted to do that anyway.

[12:59:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Cool!

[12:59:47 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Can I cross post to a personal blog?

[13:00:00 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> (I don't have one but maybe someday!)

[13:00:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Of course! Or if you want, you can use your own blog if you want. The main intent to have the information public and accessible somewhere. Doesn't matter where as long as it exists.

[13:01:03 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay.

[13:02:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Also how often do you want to meet and sync up? I assume we'll be chatting here regularly, but it's always nice to have a set date and time to just talk.

[13:04:32 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> How about once a week?

[13:05:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yeah that works for me. We don't need to schedule this until we get started officially on the project. I know you have work and studies in between.

[13:05:58 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Okay, cool.

[13:07:01 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hmmm... I don't know if there's anything else.

[13:07:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Thoughts?

[13:07:40 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Just that there is a lot of documentation!

[13:08:11 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Haha, but I think we went over enough to get me started to a point where I can dive in, and I will make sure to ask any questions that arise.

[13:08:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> great! Yeah... we have no shortage of documentation.

[13:09:37 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Feel free to ask anyone here for help. If someone doesn't know they may be able to help point you to someone who can.

[13:09:55 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Sounds good! Definitely will do that.

[13:10:37 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Thanks asteig. Welcome to the community!

[13:10:50 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Thank you!

[13:11:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> no prob.

[15:00:30 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> Hello everyone

[15:34:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> afternoon, there, travis_84___

[15:34:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'll send a couple of links over this afternoon once I dig them up...

[15:35:01 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> hey Bosmon

[15:35:26 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> yes, thanks

[15:37:28 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> I haven't heard from michelled so i have been setting up github and reading pubs and ppt's from the Fluid Project

[15:37:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok - michelled is on holiday for the next couple of weeks

[15:38:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So here is one of the links Clayton dug up: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/#transformation_not_representation

[15:38:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The library may not be directly useful, but some of the ideas from it may be

[15:39:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It's basic idiom is jQuery-like

[15:40:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Cool, travis_84___ - say if there is any help you need or further info

[15:40:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess I should read up on the mentor docs to see what I should be doing too

[15:40:48 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> I have been following a JS feed on twitter and D3 has come up a few times

[15:43:21 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> ya thnx, I have been trying to wrap up the last week of class and gather all the necessary tools and documentation

[15:45:23 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> I guess one question is where or how would you (or michelle) prefer to be contacted, or discuss things about the project?

[15:46:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess I should ask whether people think this is an appropriate use of the #fluid-work list

[15:46:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Certainly you can turn up here, even if you don't see anyone around, the channel is logged and we can answer

[15:46:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I don't know if it's practical for you to leave yourself logged on here for long period

[15:46:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> s

[15:47:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> jhung had a chat with asteig, another of our students earlier today and most of his advice is good for you too, I think

[15:47:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/fluid-work+IRC+Logs-2012-04-25

[15:49:15 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> cool

[15:49:59 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> I was thinking I could use my cubedmedia blog to post updates about what I have been doing

[15:51:32 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> apart of me feels that migh confuse people

[16:01:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Sure, your blog is just as great a place as any : P

[16:02:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> If only our blog had been used in more than a year, it would at least be conceivable....

[16:04:52 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> hah, I also find the use of mailing lists by all these OS groups, kind of annoying. What happened to good 'ol forums?

[16:06:53 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> like I am getting all sorts of gsoc email from all over the place

[16:31:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> yes, the general "melange" list is pretty noisy

[16:31:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I put up with it since it was interesting to discover what my fellow mentours were like : P

[16:32:25 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84___> sneaky