fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-04-23
- Fluid IRC Log Bot
[07:34:17 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[08:39:23 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[09:14:45 EDT(-0400)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-71-232-3-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[09:35:03 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac (n=stasia@142.150.154.189) has joined #fluid-work
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[09:41:12 EDT(-0400)] * laurelw (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[10:02:53 EDT(-0400)] * jsilvaa (n=jsilva@142.150.82.73) has joined #fluid-work
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[11:21:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Hello
[11:21:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Am I here?
[11:21:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Yes
[11:21:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> as much as any of us are, at least
[11:22:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> 
[11:22:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> How are you getting on with Pager API?
[11:22:16 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I probably have some time now to move that forward some more
[11:22:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm guessing you didn't mean in a metaphysical sense though
[11:22:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Did you get autoBind to do anything yet?
[11:22:23 EDT(-0400)] <athena> doing well
[11:23:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i haven't yet
[11:23:12 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'd just written around it previously
[11:23:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but at least i know how to do it now
[11:23:30 EDT(-0400)] <athena> which makes me happy, as i'm sure i'll run into that again in the future
[11:23:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Did you make any JIRAs yet for the stuf you want? 
[11:24:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena> heh
[11:24:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena> no
[11:24:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sorry!
[11:24:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> kind of overloaded these days
[11:24:46 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> no worries
[11:24:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Just... that only increases the danger you will forget what it was
[11:25:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes
[11:25:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> maybe friday evening
[11:27:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Bsomon - do you have some time to help finish off framework documentation?
[11:27:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> We really need some help
[11:27:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> shush
[11:27:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I was working on it all night
[11:27:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> excellent!
[11:27:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> is it on the wiki?
[11:28:20 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 (n=Jacob@142.150.154.106) has joined #fluid-work
[11:28:31 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> framework concepts - excellent!
[11:28:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> yes
[11:28:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Do you think you could work on a description of the Framework's use of Views?
[11:28:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[11:29:04 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and perhaps something about Component Lifecycle?
[11:29:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I was thinking about what should come next...
[11:29:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I have always been puzzled about that one
[11:29:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Since we don't really have a lifecycle...
[11:29:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, then, start with Views
[11:29:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Where did that one come from?
[11:29:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'll ask Colin where it came from
[11:43:07 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> Bosmon: do you know of any non-null functions in our components?
[11:43:22 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> im looking for "preventable" or "inu-cast" ones
[11:43:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> *uni-cast
[11:45:36 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran (n=elicochr@dhcp-169-229-212-84.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[11:46:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: I added a link to the progress stand alone demo to the daily build site...
[11:47:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: thanks
[11:47:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i did notice that it behaved differently on ie 7 than on my FF3 on my mac... not sure if this was intentional or not. It looked sort of interesting
[11:47:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'll be adding a Progress Tutorial over the next couple of days so it'll be nice to link to
[11:47:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> Bosmon: sorry, I meant events
[11:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> never mind about the whole thing
[11:48:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: I'll look at it in IE, it definitely should have a little graceful degradation on IE
[11:48:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but it shouldn't look strange
[11:48:51 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> basically it looked like it expanded out wards from the middle instead of moving across from left to right
[11:49:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> that's a bug!
[11:49:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> cool
[11:49:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> kind of a neat effect though
[11:49:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> it actually look really cool
[11:54:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: I just looked at it. Very interesting. I'll have to think of another example where that would make semantic sense.
[11:55:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep... just wondering how hard it is to create different types of progress bars... e.g. vertical or round or something
[11:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: ^
[11:57:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: right now the animation is set up for "width" which means that horizontal is it. However it would be very easy to make vertical an option. (one of us should write up a JIRA as a feature enhancement).
[11:57:28 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Round would be hard
[11:57:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> or I should say that round that filled like clock would be hard
[11:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Round that filled up or across would not be hard at all
[11:59:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: i see... because everything is pretty much defined on vertical and horizontal scales
[11:59:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thanks for the info...
[12:00:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: no, because round charty things need graphics either individual images or svg or canvas or some other vector primitive which isn't supported on all browser.
[12:00:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it is an interesting problem
[12:01:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> when all browsers support some of these more advanced vector languages consistently it would be worth coding
[12:01:19 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> 
too bad... so we are restricted by the browser
[12:01:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> kind of
[12:02:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> IE supports SVG is supported by IE, and Canvas is supported by Safari and FF
[12:02:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> either would work
[12:02:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> then there are some libraries which port Canvas to SVG
[12:02:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but it's all still a bother
[12:03:27 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> too much work, not enough reward at the moment?
[12:03:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> exactly
[12:03:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> even those rounded corners that you see in the Progress example in FF
[12:04:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> those work great in FF and Safari but are difficult in IE
[12:04:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> so that's my intended graceful degradation
[12:05:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i see... thanks for letting me know about all this
[12:06:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: the popularity of the iPhone will probably push Canvas out in front, especially when combined with great graphical languages like Processor.js
[12:07:31 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: that's good to hear, glad I'm supporting iPhone. Haven't heard of Processor.js before though
[12:08:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: it's a port of a JAVA graphics language into Javascript by John Resig. It has a big following.
[12:09:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> John Resig is all over the place...
[12:20:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I think you meant "Processing.js"
[12:24:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Bosmo1: yes, thanks
[12:24:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: ^
[12:25:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: oh i think i saw a demo that james made with that
[12:25:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: really, i'd love to see it, if you guys have it handy
[12:28:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll see if i can ask him
[12:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: i just spoke with him.. he only has it running locally and it is based off an older version so it won't compile if you have a newer version. He said he'd be willing to send you the source though. I guess you'd just have to find the older version to run it with
[12:31:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: what did the demo do?
[12:31:19 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: i don't remember... i just looked at it very briefly...
[12:31:46 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: np, I probably don't have time to really think about it anyway
[12:32:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I have a personal project that I really want to find time for that will use Processing.js to do a graphical representation of data coming from a solar array at my daughter's school
[12:32:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> it was part of his thesis, he used it for testing... it would generate tree maps and the users would run tasks on it.
[12:33:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: that sounds interesting
[12:58:37 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elicochran: are you particularly attached to the bolded font used for the parameters in http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Progress+API#ProgressAPI-Methods
[12:59:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> the wiki markup seems un-necessarily complicated to acheive this font
[13:00:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: I like it
[13:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it makes it clear that what we're talking about
[13:00:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the other choice would be italic
[13:01:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> what is the issue?
[13:02:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: actually the formatting is a little bit wrong on those. It should still have the code formatting as well.
[13:02:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'll clean it up
[13:03:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> italics might be better just it's more visually balanced with the code samples on the right
[13:05:06 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> labelValue: is pretty complicated rather than just using labelValue:
[13:05:39 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> which gives a clearer font for me reability-wise
[13:05:46 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> this is coming from the WYSWYG editor when you try to bold a code sample
[13:06:14 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> kinda thought it might be. I wasn't using the wyswyg
[13:07:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> laurelw, you can get bolded code by using {{ }}
[13:07:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> much simpler
[13:07:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yeah, that's better
[13:07:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the WYSWYG editor is problematic
[13:07:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> ok...that cleans it up somwhat
[13:07:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I don't usually use it but this was a case where I did
[13:08:02 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yeah, I never use the wywsiwyg editor - it can screw up stuff that is done in wiki markup
[13:08:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: so are you cleaning things up?
[13:08:59 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> well I'm checking links and adding links in the page as part of the review
[13:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: OK
[13:09:16 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> so if it is ok to clean up, I will - makes it easier for me to read
[13:09:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yes, I'd just rather not lose the formatting, I don't care how it's coded
[13:10:59 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> no problem...i'll do a few and check with you if that's ok
[13:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: that is good. Frees me up to work on Uploader docs and the Progress Tutorial
[13:17:52 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elichchran: ok..i did the first two rows - comment please
[13:25:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Does anyone know what our front-running idea currently is for dealing with Javascript doc comments?
[13:48:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Bosmon: as far as I know we don't have a workable strategy.
[13:51:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> OK
[13:51:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> here's another question
[13:51:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Where is the page where we explain the "general contract" on instantiating a Fluid Component?
[13:52:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I am having trouble finding it
[13:52:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> do you mean Fluid Component API ?
[13:52:23 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fluid+Component+API ?
[13:52:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[13:52:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> That one
[13:52:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It doesn't actually seem to be linked from any of the actual component pages
[13:53:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Does it just exist as a thing dangled off "Development"?
[13:55:36 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, we need a bit of Information Architecture on all of this stuff
[13:55:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it is actually linked to by a number of pages
[13:56:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but only as "side note" kind of things
[13:56:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> we need to decide where this fits into the Framework overview view of things
[13:56:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> any suggestions, Bosmon?
[13:57:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but you have a good point - the component pages themselves should mention it
[13:59:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I think each page which is about a specific component API should link upwards to this page, yes
[14:01:22 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elicochran: you there???
[14:01:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yep
[14:01:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: ^
[14:02:10 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> the options section of the progress api includes paragraphs about the uploader
[14:02:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> those are just typos
[14:02:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> copy and paste
[14:02:45 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> easy to fix
[14:02:46 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> is it simply a matter of substituting "progress" for "uploader"?
[14:02:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> exactly
[14:03:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> actually no, now that I look at it
[14:03:16 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> or is the whole 3 paragraphs about uploader and should be removed
[14:03:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: let me clean up ^
[14:03:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yes
[14:03:39 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> ok...have at it and let me know when I should continue review. I'm here another 2 hrs
[14:13:45 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: done
[14:19:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> fj4000: ping
[14:36:10 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> is there a page on building from source?
[14:36:24 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> I'm getting this:
[14:36:25 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> BUILD FAILED
[14:36:54 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> Unable to load a script engine manager (org.apache.bsf.BSFManager or javax.script.ScriptEngineManager)
[14:38:49 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> this is just with:> cd build-scripts; ant
[14:41:44 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sgithens342f: i think you need to use ant 1.7.0+ and download the optional jars
[14:42:01 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Custom+Build
[14:42:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> there should be instruction there
[14:42:32 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens342f> ah cool thanks
[14:42:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> np - let me know if there's missing or confusing information please
[15:31:42 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elicochran: you there?
[15:35:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> now I am
[15:36:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: ^
[15:39:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elichochran: same page - not clearn on meaning of 2nd sentence under heading selectors
[15:40:27 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> stuck on the word Option
[15:41:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: probably an unnecessary line
[15:42:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> taken verbatim from the Uploader API document
[15:42:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I should ask colin what his intention was
[15:44:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: I've noticed a few places in documentation where a page is made up of a number of sub-pages. Is this only for reuse or can it be done for ease of editing. (The Uploader API page is killing me)
[15:46:35 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> elicochran: I'm also not sure what is meant by "required" under selectors (since there is a default, doesn't that mean it isn't required)?
[15:47:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: most of the selectors require a DOM element or Progress will fail
[15:48:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> however two do not and Progress will hum along just fine
[15:49:00 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> ok...but the code will look for selector of flc-progress if you don't specify displayElement (yes?)
[15:49:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the code will look for it but if it doesn't find it it will not fail
[15:49:51 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> got it
[15:49:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> wait, displayElement... I think that one is required
[15:50:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'm not sure that it needs to be though
[15:50:35 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> ok...i'm going to ask around here too.
[15:51:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: there is some subtlety to the Progress component which is not currently expressed in the docs
[15:51:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'm hoping that we can build some samples and express the subtleties in the Tutorial
[15:53:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: interesting. displayElement right now is required, but that's a bug. If you have a progress element which is never hidden, like a status element, you don't need a display element.
[15:53:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but for now the docs are right
[15:54:08 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> ok...so i'll just leave it alone technically - we can always change it if it is wrong
[15:54:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> well, right now it is correct, when I fix the bug (if I fix the bug) it'll be wrong
[15:55:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> you should be able to create the simplest of Progress with just a bar and an indicator
[15:55:09 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> and I will make it so in the future
[15:55:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurelw: is anastasiac around?
[15:55:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I have a question for her about 10 lines back
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[16:03:01 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> she has gone for a walk but will be back
[16:04:53 EDT(-0400)] <laurelw> i'm gone...unfortunately didn't quite finish the review
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[16:09:08 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: sorry I missed your ping, I was away from my desk
[16:09:11 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac reads the question
[16:09:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: the
[16:10:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but if your page is really long, maybe actually breaking it up into sub-pages officially might be a good idea
[16:10:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I was wondering that myself for the Pager API page
[16:10:50 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: cool, because it would be so much easier to manage each section as a different page... I may play around with it. I'm almost done though with Uploader
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[16:46:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: I've added the more "obscure" options to the Uploader as discussed yesterday
[16:46:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> however, I'm wondering if they should be broken out separately
[16:46:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> kind of a "commonly edited options" and "advanced options" ... wording needs something
[16:46:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it doesn't hurt to put the base, expected options in a table, then have an intro to another table saying "there are some more obscure options..."
[16:46:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, exactly
[16:47:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ok, great
[16:47:18 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I think that it'll make it easier to understand
[16:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: thanks!
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