fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-05-20

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: May 20, 2009Version comment
20 min read

[05:55:39 EDT(-0400)] * JASIGLogBot2 (n=PircBot@jasig.Princeton.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[05:55:39 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'Bug Parade May 19 - 25 (http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10129)' set by Justin_o on 2009-05-19 08:20:34 EDT(-0400)
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[08:39:06 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
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[09:52:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm, michelled, anastasiac, and etc.
[09:52:40 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac listens
[09:52:44 EDT(-0400)] * jessm too
[09:52:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I'm working with Yura about removing tiny_mce from the repository and moving it to a cdn
[09:53:12 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> cdn?
[09:53:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Yura was able to get it working with the latest version of tiny_mce, however tiny_mce has a bug
[09:53:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: basically it allows us to store it offsite so that we can just reference it with a url
[09:53:54 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh - good idea (smile)
[09:54:20 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the bug in tiny mce is that if you have two different types of bulletes it seems to only display the second one
[09:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so we can either remove tiny_mce from the repository, use the cdn and have that bug
[09:54:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> or we can keep it as is
[09:55:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I believe that richtext is still in preview and users are free to use whichever editor they chose, so i would prefer to remove tiny_mce from the repository, but am open to suggestions
[09:55:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm inferring from what you're saying that you're not talking about actually moving the copy of tiny_mce that we have into a cdn, but referring to some other copy of tiny_mce that is already in a cdn?
[09:57:26 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, my understanding is that the rich text edit version of the inline edit is really a method of hooking up an external rich text editor
[09:57:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm thinking that the method is fine, and we don't have control over the external editor that people choose
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[09:58:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think the benefits of removing tiny_mce from our repository outweigh the downside of demoing with an editor that has a small bug
[09:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> michelled, what do you think?
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[09:58:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura just updated me on the bug, it actually doesn't show non-numeric bullets
[09:58:44 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> has the tiny_mce example moved out of the manual tests yet?
[09:59:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: no, but yura is creating an example that we hope to move to the standalone examples for 1.1
[09:59:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I image that richtext and dropdown will remain in sneak peek for this release
[10:00:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think it makes sense to remove it from our repository
[10:00:25 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> #msg NickServ INFO laurel
[10:00:39 EDT(-0400)] <yura> I agree with anastasiac in regards to no control over external editor
[10:00:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: actually yura has created a cdn
[10:01:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the version that we are using currently, doesn't work from a cdn though
[10:01:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ah
[10:03:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we may want to put some info about the cdn in a readme alongside the example.
[10:04:04 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: sure that's not a bad idea, maybe a wiki page about how to update it as well
[10:04:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> makes sense
[10:04:19 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay.. thanks
[10:04:20 EDT(-0400)] <yura> yes I can help with that
[10:04:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura thanks
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[10:13:59 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> just posted a patch to http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2741.
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[10:15:32 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: seems resolved?
[10:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <yura> i have no idea
[10:25:56 EDT(-0400)] <yura> ^ sorry wrong window
[10:26:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: yes... i believe it is, thanks
[10:27:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> hey all – keep your ears perked – i'm going to be working on clarifying the roadmap page today – it should give us more clarity
[10:27:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so, if you're confused or hear that someone is working on something you hadn't heard of before check the roadmapping page and check in with me
[10:27:42 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> just don't panic
[10:36:48 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> url jess?
[10:38:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it will be here http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fluid+Engage+Roadmap+Q2
[10:38:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i haven't updated it yet
[10:38:40 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jessm has been reading Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
[10:40:19 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> an update from me: after chatting with jess, am going to start working on the mobile extension to FSS. as the mccord museum seems to be our focus, it'd be good to chat with james, erin, michelle next week about their meeting with the museum and any mockups/ideas for a mobile friendly version - i think this would help direct my focus. does that make sense?
[10:48:37 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: can we test with the website too? It displays horribly on Iphone and one of my tasks is to develop a css for mobile devices.
[10:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: so maybe we can cover some things together
[10:49:49 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: definitely sounds like it. by the website do you mean fluidproject.org? does it use FSS?
[10:50:22 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> speaking of testing, is there a server i can get access to/play on?
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[10:54:19 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: yes I mean www.fluidproject.org and yes it does use the fss...next time you are in I can give you a tour{color}
[10:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: am in tomorrow - would that work? how far along are you with mobilizing (new word?) the site?
[10:57:05 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> or will it be like mobile.fluidproject.org kinda thing
[10:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: I am 0% into that task!
[11:00:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> heidi_: you're working on an extension to the FSS, right?
[11:00:45 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> anastasiac: have just been assigned that task, yep
[11:01:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> are you able to just work locally for now? We don't generally have server-based development environments set up...
[11:01:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> we usually work locally, and we have the build server that serves up the latest code that's in SVN
[11:02:40 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> can work locally for sure. was just checking incase we want to collab somehow, but that's fine
[11:03:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ah, right. I guess the closest thing we have is SVN (smile)
[11:03:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> there are patches on JIRAs, for code that's not ready to commit
[11:03:40 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> okay, JIRA is new to me, will... figure out what it is (big grin)
[11:04:55 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: i guess just keep me posted about whatever work you're doing for mobile and FSS. i'll spend a bit of time playing with FSS.
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[11:06:48 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: want a jira orientation now?
[11:06:51 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> heidi_, laurel: I think there will be some work coming up soon that will determine what the device is and set the appropriate fss theme based on that. So I would say you are right on to start building the fss mobile theme
[11:07:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> device detection has been on the UI Options long term roadmap for quite a while now. It's exciting to be coming up to the actual work now (smile)
[11:07:50 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: look here: http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa
[11:07:58 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: yes please, michelled: right on. will that be part of FSS or a separate thing?
[11:08:29 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: basically, every task we do is layed out in the fluid issue tracker that I just sent a link to.
[11:08:40 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: cheers, thanks
[11:09:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it will likely be a separate thing that UI Enhancer works with. UI Enhancer is the engine behind UI Options that responds to personal preferences.
[11:09:23 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> cool
[11:09:33 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> UI Enhancer uses fss to accomplish many of the UI alterations.
[11:09:38 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: for instance, see the following task http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2625
[11:10:10 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> so will 'mobile' be a preference governed by UI enhancer
[11:10:30 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: so - you will want to create an account for yourself, and I think one of the jira admins needs to change your user type so that you can create issues yourself
[11:10:37 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> (and does that mean, switch to using the mobile stylesheets)
[11:10:48 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: great, will do.
[11:10:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> could anyone review my commits for FLUID-2500 and FLUID-2458?
[11:11:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> heidi_: that's the most likely route we'll take.
[11:12:05 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> great
[11:12:28 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: also, we actually try not to work on anything which isn't listed as a task in the issue tracker - so first thing you might want to do is create a task and then maybe some subtasks related to the fss mobile
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[11:13:02 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: gotcha, will do
[11:13:12 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: is that enough orientation for now - ask questions when you need anything !
[11:13:47 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> laurel: thank you!
[11:14:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> heidi_: let me know when you've created your account
[11:15:12 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> michelled: just did
[11:17:14 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> heidi_: I just changed your status on JIRA so you should be able to assign issues to yourself now.
[11:17:25 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> thanks m
[11:20:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> np
[11:23:35 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> laurelw, or anyone else: could you review my commit for FLUID-2388? (r7188)
[11:23:44 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> laurel : ^
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[11:36:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> alisonbenjamin: heya
[11:36:56 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think we need to rethink FLUID-2399
[11:37:10 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: yes
[11:37:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> adding that caused 2738
[11:37:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and its not quite valid stuff
[11:37:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> can we work together on this?
[11:38:02 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> sounds good
[11:38:54 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> just going to review 2738
[11:39:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> can I send you patches, and you can tell me how they play out?
[11:39:29 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alisonbenjamin, fj4000: after you are finished, could you please pass it by everett and make sure that it all works properly and then close the issue (also for FLUID-2741)
[11:39:43 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok
[11:40:17 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Justin_o: I will but I don't know if he's around. he hasn't responded to emails I sent him last week. but I can check with JAWS..
[11:40:32 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alisonbenjamin: okay.... thanks
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[11:41:55 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: so the checkboxes & labels weren't left justified before.
[11:42:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i have a patch coming with how they're supposed to line up
[11:42:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> its all supposed to meet in the center, a little like center alignment
[11:43:03 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> but not quite
[11:47:36 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: and in IE 8 I can see that the checkboxes themselves are right justified but the labels are left justified, is that what you saw?
[11:48:27 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: michelle mentioned that my patch is not valid html so I will look at the spec now.
[11:48:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> what saw (in FF3) was each set of inputs was on separate lines from the title
[11:48:48 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i havent tested on ie yet (tongue)
[11:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: right, and that is not consistent with how the table of contents label & radio buttons look
[11:49:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think so
[11:50:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> patch is almost ready for your testing
[11:52:05 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> alisonbenjamin: i dont see you as online in IM
[11:52:38 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> could you msg me so i can send you my patch?
[11:53:12 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: cool. Have you done anything to the legend or fieldset tags.
[11:53:36 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: my client says I am available :\
[11:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i kept them, just moved them slightly and used some css to "hide" them
[11:53:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> do you see me?
[11:54:41 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> no you are conspicuously absent. what's your icq/aim/ etc #
[11:54:53 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> hmm, so weird
[11:54:59 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> yeah
[11:55:23 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: so can you explain to me why my patch was not quite valid.
[11:55:37 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok, my icq # is 354577820
[11:55:38 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sure
[11:55:42 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> it was very subtle
[11:55:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> but it threw a few things a little off:
[11:56:09 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the use of legend has to be an immediate child of fieldset
[11:56:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the patch put it inside a label element
[11:56:50 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so 2 things happened
[11:56:59 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> oh I see.
[11:57:10 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the legend is very hard to control via css, b/c of browser flaws
[11:57:17 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so it throws the layout off
[11:58:09 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: ok. I'll have a look at your patch when it's up. or have you not changed the html file?
[11:58:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and the validator cried
[11:58:32 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if you apply the patch to your files, you should see 2 changes
[11:58:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> 1 in the html file, 1 in the css file
[11:58:50 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> all inside the uiOptions folder
[11:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: yes, I should have run it through a validator... the W3C I presume.
[11:59:08 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sure, i think any of them will do
[11:59:24 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> this isnt a big deal, its just sometimes one thing directly affects the other
[12:00:50 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: in aptana, when I have the patch, I right click on the file or folder I want to apply it to, then go team > apply patch?
[12:01:04 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> alisonbenjamin: i think i sent the patch to the wrong alison (tongue)
[12:01:10 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yup
[12:01:24 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: easy mistake to make
[12:01:41 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> can you ping me?
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[12:04:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: you can run HTML files through the w3 validator: http://validator.w3.org/
[12:04:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> unfortunately our use of 'rsf:id' makes the validator cry too.
[12:04:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so it's hard to notice at a glance what's actually wrong
[12:05:11 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> fj4000: do you still want me to review that 2388?
[12:05:17 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sure
[12:05:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> ok...sorry - working on the build script!
[12:06:03 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> no hurry, if anyone can review it i (and Justin) would be happy!
[12:08:42 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> fj4000: did you put in a second patch or is this still the same patch (reviewed by Anastasia)
[12:09:06 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i committed it, so no patch this time
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[12:09:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if you use the latest uiOptions css file from trunk, it should be there
[12:12:55 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> fyi, i've created an issue for adding mobile-friendliness to FSS: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2747
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[12:14:24 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> feel free to add/edit as i'm new to fluid's method, estimated on level of granularity...
[12:15:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> heidi_: as you're working on FLUID-2748 if you find places where documentation can be improved or corrected please feel free to make changes and/or ping the list or irc room about it
[12:15:49 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's always great to have fresh eyes on the docs (smile)
[12:16:03 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> will do!
[12:16:08 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> fj4000: This is going to take a bit of effort to review. Can I put it off until tomorrow and continue to slog on the build, or do you need it today
[12:16:23 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> no, dont feel like you have to review it
[12:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> anyone else can too
[12:16:37 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> its just i know the website was waiting on this
[12:17:23 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> It makes sense that I test it, and moving back to ui options was in the plan as soon as I get the build front end demo up and email about it.
[12:17:54 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> so tomorrow is right on track
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[12:44:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> alisonbenjamin, fj4000: I just tried applying your patch to a clean checkout of infusion trunk
[12:44:22 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Aptana didn't complain at all
[12:44:39 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> anastasiac: thanks,
[12:44:49 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> thank you
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[13:08:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Hi... I am having some trouble through what looks like a corruption in the SVN history of the file "moduleGroups.json"
[13:09:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> i thought it was just a local accident the first time, but now I have it on a 2nd machine (my laptop)
[13:09:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Whatever it is, I can't even run an "svn cleanup" any more....
[13:09:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> f:\workspace\fluid-components\src\webapp>svn cleanup
[13:09:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> svn: In directory '.'
[13:09:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> svn: Error processing command 'modify-wcprop' in '.'
[13:09:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> svn: 'moduleGroups.json' is not under version control
[13:09:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Through getting this problem
[13:09:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I guess the only answer is to nuke my working copy and get it out afresh
[13:09:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But I leave this note here in case anything occurs to someone (tongue)
[13:10:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I may try to "regenerate" the file at some point by deleting it and restoring it...
[13:17:16 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> Bosmon: yura and i have run into that a number of times
[13:17:34 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> and i think our solution was the same as yours unfortunately (sad)
[13:27:46 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jamon: your fix didn't solve the whole issue but did get us farther along. solved the problem later last night
[13:28:27 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jamon: the settings.xml file was part of it, but then the maven still didn't find the file...but there is a command line argument to point it at the right settings file.
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[13:39:04 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> hi Justin_o
[13:39:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hi davidb
[13:39:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> davidb: alison is working with us here and had some question about an a11y issue she is working on
[13:39:30 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> hi all
[13:39:37 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: hi
[13:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: ?
[13:39:42 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> hi
[13:39:55 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> hey davidb miss you in person here
[13:40:01 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> me too
[13:41:05 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> please nick me when you have the question ready (smile)
[13:41:05 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: sorry. be back in one sec.
[13:41:09 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> ok
[13:52:43 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: A demo we're running features sets of radio buttons (e.g. Background Images Yes[0] No[ ]). A problem was discovered: JAWS wasn't reading the label associated with the radio buttons (e.g."Background Images"). With Virtal Cursor on, it only read the button that is checked, and it is impossible to toggle between Yes and No. With Virtual Cursor off, JAWS read Yes and No buttons, and you can toggle between them.
[13:52:54 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: We submitted a patch that uses the legend and fieldset tags. Now, with Virtual Cursor mode on, JAWS gives context to the radio buttons by announcing "Background Images". But in this mode, it's impossible to toggle the options. Virutal Cursor has to be turned off to toggle between buttons. And when it is turned off, the legend "background images" isn't read.
[13:53:16 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> There is a page about known ARIA screen reader issues...
[13:53:22 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/aria-tests/user-input-widgets.html
[13:53:26 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> It is good to test with a couple to help understand if it is a screen reader bug...
[13:53:31 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> Here is the nvda download: http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Download
[13:53:35 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> Generally, NVDA uses newer APIs, whereas Jaws, by definition a legacy app, also/instead scrapes the DOM...
[13:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> ... and since Jaws is not FOSS this can lead to hard-to-debug strangeness.
[13:53:44 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> but...
[13:53:46 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> hm
[13:54:50 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: i'm assuming these are ARIA radio buttons?
[13:55:05 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> or are they html <input type="radio"> ?
[13:55:11 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> laurel: good to hear
[13:55:17 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: let me look at the code
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[13:55:39 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> there goes the neighborhood
[13:55:46 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> err i mean hi jsilvaa!
[13:56:13 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> is davidb here spamming the channel?
[13:56:29 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> psh
[13:56:36 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> hi davidb
[13:56:43 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> quite a backlog (tongue)
[13:57:25 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> jamon: you haven't seen a backlog
[13:58:03 EDT(-0400)] * davidb looks up legend and fieldset
[13:58:11 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: yes, it's html.
[13:58:15 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> yeah ok
[13:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> then forget everything i said (almost)
[13:58:47 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: ok just googled http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=3
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[14:00:54 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: what version of jaws?
[14:01:11 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: 10
[14:01:13 EDT(-0400)] * davidb goes on to http://www.rnib.org.uk/wacblog/articles/too-much-accessibility/too-much-accessibility-fieldset-legends/
[14:01:59 EDT(-0400)] * davidb looks at firefox source code
[14:03:23 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> hmmm we have automated tests for this.
[14:03:41 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> in FF we expose an IAccessible2 relation... which i suspect Jaws doesn't pay attention to.
[14:04:05 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: do you use accprobe?
[14:04:13 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: no
[14:04:32 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> my gut tells me this is a jaws issue.
[14:04:50 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: is you goal to make this work with existing jaws versions? or future?
[14:05:04 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> good question davidb
[14:05:08 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> michelled: hi
[14:05:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> hi davidb (smile)
[14:05:13 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> accprobe is great btw
[14:05:14 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> http://www.eclipse.org/actf/downloads/tools/accprobe/index.php
[14:05:24 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> helps triage
[14:05:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm not sure we have specifically targeted screen reader versions
[14:05:49 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: I'm not sure what the goal is. usability by wide variety of ATs?
[14:06:27 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> in the end, i don't know why jaws 10 is not happy... but it seems really odd that the addition of fieldset and legend regresses a11y
[14:06:59 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> and i suspect it comes down to jaws looking at the DOM directly... as opposed to picking up the accessible relation
[14:07:28 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: always a good goal... to make things work with what people have already paid big money for.
[14:07:45 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: (this is the demo we've been working with. although it doesn't have the patch applied to it) http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/components/uiOptions/html/UIOptions.html
[14:08:38 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> oh the <label> doesn't have a for attribute?
[14:08:52 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> oh wait it does
[14:09:17 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> that is quite the id (smile)
[14:09:59 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: so that version works ok right?
[14:11:03 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: not exactly. there's no context for what the buttons do (when being read by JAWS)
[14:11:38 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> riiiight
[14:11:45 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> pita
[14:12:15 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: maybe it is label for, as michelle just pointed out.
[14:12:29 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> ?
[14:13:41 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sorry I gotta run (sad) I've love to hear about how this ends
[14:13:55 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> me too
[14:13:57 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: for example, there's a text spacing combo box. in the html for this there's a for. and jaws reads this.
[14:14:28 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> you mean a <label for="some_id">?
[14:14:35 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> yeah
[14:14:42 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> yeah those are pretty solid
[14:14:56 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> that's how the yes and no are hooked up to the radios
[14:15:48 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> i asked marcoz about this...
[14:15:50 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> "Well, I have only seen a few fieldset and legend combos in the wild, and those worked OK for me. But you only get this info spoken if you navigate the form controls with the F quick nav key or by tabbing, but not by arrowing. You pass it by of course, but it won't tell you when you hit an edit, all of the grouping info provided by fieldset/legend."
[14:17:13 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: is marcoz a JAWS user
[14:17:18 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> yep (smile)
[14:17:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> has anyone else noticed utoronto's email exchange has gone down?
[14:17:21 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> cool
[14:17:31 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> fj4000: it's the worst.
[14:17:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> this is insane
[14:17:43 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> alisonbenjamin: i have to go eyes off channel for a bit but i'll hang here and check the log later
[14:17:51 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> that's probably all my brain dump though
[14:17:53 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> on this
[14:18:00 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> alisonbenjamin: are you still getting email?
[14:18:12 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: thanks very much. i will ping with what happens..
[14:18:15 EDT(-0400)] * davidb shakes his fist at jamon
[14:18:24 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> anytime
[14:18:31 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> also... i tend to be logged into this server...
[14:18:49 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> you can always "/invite davidb"
[14:19:09 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: cool. i'll remember that..
[14:19:18 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> darn (smile)
[14:19:27 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> (with moderation)
[14:19:35 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> heehee no problem at all
[14:19:54 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> i learned something
[14:20:04 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> davidb: i may have too. we'll see..
[14:20:12 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> (smile)
[14:23:48 EDT(-0400)] * jamon is still shaken 5 minutes after the fact
[14:30:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> can someone take a look at my commit for FLUID-2553 ?
[14:31:02 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> alisonbenjamin: that url is really neat. UI enhancer looks way cool.
[14:37:05 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jsilvaa: hey are you there?
[14:37:17 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> yes
[14:38:12 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jsilvaa: I just notices a confusing thing in the UI Options tutorial that I'm going to alter to make less confusing
[14:38:17 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> noticed
[14:38:43 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> cool, which?
[14:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> heidi_: it is totally cool. But I can't take credit for that. Give your congrats to the Fluid Infusion team... !
[14:40:04 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> congrats team (smile)
[14:40:06 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> which link is this?
[14:40:26 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> jsilvaa: http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/components/uiOptions/html/UIOptions.html
[14:40:52 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> oh rite...
[14:41:43 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> the tutorial uses both .uiOptions and #uiOptions
[14:41:56 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> for different dom elements in different markup
[14:42:24 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i got confused...maybe others too?
[14:42:43 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> yes, I noticed that too
[14:44:12 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> when I went to change the #uiOptions I got confused as to which ones to change...so I'm going to alter that in the tutorial. and continue to try to re-do the tutorial tasks over and see if I can get the close, etc. working.
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[15:07:52 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> small typo on FSS quick guide "<p class="fl-tetx-align-justify fl-font-size-130">Text</p>"
[15:08:01 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> am guessing fl-text not tetx ?
[15:08:20 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> heidi_: change away!!
[15:08:25 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> can i edit this type of thing myself?
[15:08:27 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> okay!
[15:09:05 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> i'll sign up for a confluence account
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[15:11:27 EDT(-0400)] <davidb> drive by link https://wiki.mozilla.org/FreeSoftwareOnResumes:Writing (good for student volunteers)
[15:18:22 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> fj4000, Jusin_o: is anyone reviewing FLUID-2553?
[15:18:35 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i dont think so....
[15:18:36 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> me wants a break from cspace, and wants to help with bug parade
[15:18:38 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: not yet
[15:18:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, I'll have a look
[15:18:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[15:38:07 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> could someone have a look at my commit for FLUID-2478?
[15:38:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> fj4000, I'll add it to the list (smile)
[15:42:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I've reviewed FLUID-2417, and re-opened it. The newly defaulted class name should be programmatically added to the default template, not hard-coded.
[15:42:23 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I've also commented on FLUID-2553 - looks good!
[15:43:22 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm going to review FLUID-2500 now
[16:07:15 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> i just thought of a reason to upload stuff to a test/play server: to access it via a mobile device. can use heidi.atrc site if there isn't a fluid dev server
[16:07:58 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> jsilvaa: do you have a server i could play with FSS mobile on?
[16:09:15 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> by "server" you mean?
[16:09:35 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> something where i could set up a directory and FTP some files
[16:09:47 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> and access on the web
[16:10:08 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> I don't have access to that... jamon might be able to help you though
[16:10:16 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> ooh wait
[16:10:21 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> the scyp server I do
[16:10:30 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> "server"
[16:10:41 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> anything is fine
[16:10:42 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> more like domain
[16:11:04 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> i'm guessing you have ftp access and there is a dev area?
[16:11:24 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> is a dev area = dev folder?
[16:11:39 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> cause I can create one
[16:11:47 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> yeah, something that won't interfere w/ the live site(s)
[16:11:54 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> sure
[16:12:21 EDT(-0400)] <heidi_> thanks, i can call you tomorrow for the login info - cool?
[16:12:28 EDT(-0400)] <jsilvaa> cool
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[16:30:24 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> justin_o: hey justin_o I've finalized the wiki page I was working on, I was wondering if you could take a look http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/External+Editor+Controls+(CDN)
[16:30:44 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> yura1: sure, will do
[16:36:04 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: I was just looking at your comments on the FLUID-2417
[16:37:46 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: do you have time to quickly chat about it
[16:54:04 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> justin_o, sorry I missed you - I was at stand-up (wink)
[16:54:32 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> yes.... after waiting a bit i finally clued into where everyone was (sad)
[16:55:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> thoughts on FLUID-2417, justin_o?
[16:56:25 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> yes, i was just going to tell you that I had spoken to bosmon about some of that stuff... basically he was saying that changing the selector in the template would in essence be the same as passing in a new template, and that's why it is left hard coded in the defaults. Not sure about the style one though, so I've made the change and can commit it now if you like
[16:57:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I guess I'm thinking the idea is to leave the selector out of the template
[16:57:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it's a template, that's all
[16:57:20 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: hey
[16:57:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and we programmatically add the style class later, to whatever it is, whether it came from a template, or the user, or something else
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[16:57:45 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: yes
[16:59:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> justin_o, if we want to leave the selectors hard-coded in the default template, then we really need to be clear in the docs that if you change the class name, you can't use the default tempalte
[16:59:40 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: what bosmon was saying is that we have essentially placed the responsibility of adding the selector into the hands of the developer. I'm not quite getting his wording correctly here, but I believe he is basically saying is that it would be like an api change
[17:00:19 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> hm... well, maybe I should chat with Bos about it. I'm not clear what he means
[17:00:28 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: re http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2383, I've looked into aria slider and think it could help with the bug. i had a look at the code today, and would like to be apart of fixing it but i'm not sure how to add aria support programattically. it would be good to team with someone (question) to work on this, if there's time.
[17:00:39 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: yes... we probably do need to document that... Basically what bosmon was saying is that if someone is going to change the default class name, they would be passing in a different template
[17:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but he's not in the channel now, and I'm going to have to leave very soon, so I'll have to catch him tomorrow
[17:01:20 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: good idea, so i won't commit anything against it and we can rethink it tomorrow
[17:01:32 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, that's best, I think
[17:02:31 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[17:02:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> np - hope I'm not opening a can of worms (smile)
[17:03:09 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: that sounds like a good idea...
[17:03:30 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i'm not sure who we could get to pair with you at the moment, but we'll try to work something out
[17:05:29 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> ok. i'll bring it up tomorrow afternoon. i'm going to spend the morning @ home doing DIA related tasks.
[17:06:29 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> bye
[17:07:42 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> anastasiac: no, i think it would be good to discuss
[17:08:12 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> not sure bosmon will be around tomorrow though
[17:08:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh?
[17:09:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and I'm not around Friday...
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