fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-05-28

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: May 28, 2009Version comment
14 min read

[02:44:27 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.100.66) has joined #fluid-work
[08:15:08 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
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[10:01:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> come to Connect for the tech meeting
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[10:13:27 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jamon: you there?
[10:33:40 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> laurel: checking
[10:34:54 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[11:06:02 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> Justin_o: just noticed that this bug is still occuring IE8 WinXP http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2244
[11:06:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> laurel: on both pages or just the one?
[11:06:50 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> just the one. haven't tried the other
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[11:44:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark, everyone: do you think it would be useful to separate Infusion, Decapod and Engage in JIRA?
[11:44:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Justin_o ^
[11:45:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: you mean the way that fluid and vulab is seperated
[11:45:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ?
[11:45:07 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[11:45:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> essentially, rename "Fluid" to "Infusion" and create the other two
[11:45:44 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hmm.. what are we doing for Decapod?
[11:46:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There is a Google Code site for Decapod, but it's not clear that we'll use it much.
[11:46:21 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we are building the UI layer which will include several Infusion components
[11:46:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm slightly distracted at the moment, but I'm not totally sure about splitting things up too much.
[11:46:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's definitely an interesting idea.
[11:47:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm not sold on it either - I just wanted to pose it before I created a slew of Engage related JIRA issues.
[11:47:31 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> if it is for filing bugs, i'm thinking that many of those would likely end up being infusion bugs
[11:47:42 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I noticed there is a 'Decapod' component in JIRA which feels a bit strange.
[11:47:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> bug if it is for design tasks, it may be worth it
[11:48:16 EDT(-0400)] * jamon chimes in with a pitch for redmine as a bug/issue tracker
[11:48:22 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> i'll have to demo it for y'all sometime
[11:48:33 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: i see your point
[11:48:41 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jamon: is redmine accessible
[11:48:58 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> Justin_o: i checked with checker, about 5/6 issues
[11:49:04 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> easily themed as well
[11:49:11 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> redmine.atrc.utoronto.ca
[11:49:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jamon: thanks
[11:49:52 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> np, bug me if anyone is interested, i use it for a personal task manager since projects can be public/private
[11:51:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jamon: okay thanks
[11:51:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Right now, I don't think we're ready to make any major changes to our infrastructure.
[11:52:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Confluence and JIRA are really an established part of our community's flow.
[11:52:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I don't want to disrupt that.
[11:52:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Red mine is very cool, but we've got a big community to support, and Confluence + JIRA meet our needs quite nicely.
[11:52:42 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> for sure, not suggesting moving, but augmenting things in the future is a possibility
[11:52:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: Definitely.
[11:53:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: speaking of confluence, jira, and disruptions... what do you think about upgrading those some time between 1.1 and the all hands meeting
[11:53:38 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> i don't expect atlassian will change their foss licenses anytime soon either which is good
[11:56:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: upgrading jira and conf. were on our post 1.0 to-do
[11:56:32 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: i think bringing it back up is a great idea
[11:57:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: thanks... I'm hoping that they've made some improvements specifically with some of the macros in confluence
[11:59:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> perhaps I'll create these JIRA issues as part of the current "framework" component which I think they are and we can move them later if we decided to reorganize JIRA a bit
[12:01:26 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> or maybe I should create a 'services' component
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[12:05:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Maybe we'll create a few components...
[12:05:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Engage Services
[12:05:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Engage Components
[12:05:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Engage Mapping
[12:05:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Does that seem reasonable?
[12:05:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> what would be in Engage Components? wouldn't we rather create a new component for each?
[12:06:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Well, perhaps just as a starting point... we can change these as we get more specific.
[12:07:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok
[12:07:15 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I can create those
[12:31:53 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran (n=elicochr@dhcp-169-229-212-59.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[12:32:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> hello
[12:32:05 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jamon: are you there??
[12:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> I wondered what other sites on sirius do while mysql is down.
[12:35:30 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> laurel: the ones that use mysql are just down is all
[12:35:38 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> same with all the other servers
[12:36:03 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> so none of them do any graceful degradation - display a maintenance page or anything?
[12:36:37 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> that would be up to the cms to do
[12:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i assumed that
[12:37:02 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i was curious what techniques other sites were using
[12:37:08 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> I'll ask around
[12:40:22 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> it's the first i've heard about it, not being dismissive, but i wonder if anyone else has noticed
[12:43:27 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i wonder too
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[12:58:04 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> laurel: if you have any questions about my reasoning for the jiras I assigned to you just let me know. (smile)
[13:07:13 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: just having jacob run some tests on uploader in opera from 1.0 and the trunk version
[13:07:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: I have a question for you that is a little out of context, but I'm wondering if we should be taking Linux, and Linux browsers a little more seriously given the rise of the Netbook. (Not something that we need to do anything about right now, I just realized that I've been dismissing Linux a bit to handily)
[13:07:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> thanks, mr fj4000
[13:08:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ?
[13:08:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: have you guys been talking about this, at all
[13:08:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> thanking you for your Uploader testing
[13:08:25 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> oh
[13:08:27 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> (smile)
[13:09:41 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: interesting point, i haven't really thought about that too much... currently we are going off of yahoo a-grade so a focus on linux would either have to come from them or a divergence from us
[13:10:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> but it may be an idea to do so less formally
[13:10:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: yeah, I've just been noticing a lot more Netbooks on campus, and I suddenly realized that some big portion of those are not running Windows
[13:10:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> also for uploader testing, it seems that Opera works fine locally on win xp,
[13:11:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> unless you switch between the html and flash version that is
[13:11:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: true, and dell is selling their notebooks with ubuntu preinstalled now too
[13:11:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ah so the problem is Mac specific... good touch point
[13:12:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> at least the variant that you discovered about running locally
[13:12:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yes
[13:13:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: we now have FLUID-2819 (Critical) to track the local demo/Opera problem
[13:14:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: thanks
[13:14:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: anyway, we don't need to solve this Linux question today, but it's worth talking about when we're not trying to do a release
[13:15:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (smile) yes very true... maybe we can talk about it again in a week or so
[13:15:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> thanks, I just wanted to put it on the radar
[13:15:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep good idea, please mention it to me again though... i'm afraid i may forget
[13:15:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> will do
[13:18:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: I have another Opera problem... but I'm not sure that we can call it a bug
[13:19:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> on the server version, the SWF will not completely load if you have the Opera developer tools open
[13:19:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> as soon as you close them, it completes it's initialization and displays the Browse button
[13:21:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: that's interesting, is it breaking on something ( a break point?)
[13:21:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> if so, it's not showing in the tool
[13:21:47 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (sad)
[13:21:54 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it just seems to hang... the odd thing is.. the button is there... it's just not displaying
[13:22:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I can click it, the file browser will show... but no files will get loaded into the queue
[13:22:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> then again, when I close the tools... bang... the queue populates
[13:23:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> interesting... i wonder if it is an opera bug, will it halt flash movies from loading as well?
[13:27:10 EDT(-0400)] * mackrauss (n=armin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[13:27:28 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> Good Afternoon everyone!
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[13:33:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled_> hi mackrauss!
[13:37:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Has everyone been introduced to mackrauss yet?
[13:39:26 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> My real name is Armin and I am an intern working over the summer at the ATRC on fluid engage. At the moment I am doing some testing for fluid infusion. I will then move on to get involved in the mobile application for fluid engage.
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[13:39:51 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> I will be at the stand up meeting today as I was the last two days
[13:40:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[13:45:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled_> colinclark, everyone: I'm going to create a space in svn for engage. here's a suggestion for the structure that I will create. I've put in part of infusion
[13:45:56 EDT(-0400)] <michelled_> structure for comparison
[13:45:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled_> http://fluid.pastebin.com/m22f6a272
[13:46:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled_: Looks great
[13:47:43 EDT(-0400)] <michelled_> cool - I'll go ahead then. we can always restructure if we need to in the future (smile)
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[13:55:04 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> alisonbenjamin: what sort of context for website breadcrumbs were you thinking.
[13:55:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, Bosmon, Bosmo1: I'm reviewing FLUID-2247 to see if anything needs to change in the docs
[13:56:08 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm not 100% sure I understand the issue, so I'm double-checking:
[13:56:19 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> no change is needed in the docs as a result of this, right?
[13:56:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> probably needs a change in the documentation, yes
[13:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark: ok, I'm obviously not understanding the issue and/or its fix
[13:57:36 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> what needs to change?
[13:57:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o and colinclark: I managed to find a fix for the local Uploader bug (the more general bug) that I had high hopes for the server version but it doesn't work on the server version
[13:58:28 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the fix, which is a bit eh, is to not disable the Browse button during uploads
[13:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran: oh ... which bug was this one
[13:59:29 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I have no f-n idea why that works given my understanding of the bug (FLUID-2819)
[14:00:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... i wouldn't have thought that would have mattered
[14:01:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the reason why I thought that it might make a difference is that the error which is being reported in Opera is "Call to SetButtonDisabled failed"
[14:01:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but the underlying problem is that the SWF object is being refreshed in a loop
[14:01:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> oh... I know why it works locally
[14:01:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> because we're not touching the SWF locally, except to disable the button
[14:02:18 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but in the server version, we disable the button and upload files through the beast
[14:02:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> well... this is just not acceptable! (tongue)
[14:03:05 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> so as soon as we get in that loops, we're screwed
[14:03:18 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> so I have to figure out a way to not get in the loop
[14:04:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I also don't know why we get into the loop on component instantiation in the demo version but it takes a manualDegrade to get there on the server version
[14:04:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o and colinclark ^
[14:05:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> that is strange, are the uploadmanagers doing anything
[14:13:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> alisonbenjamin: can you check out the page breadcrumbs...You are here doesn't read very clearly, but then, I'm not usually trying to hear the page.
[14:13:51 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> laurel: Ok.
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[14:18:00 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> alisonbenjamin: also I did start out trying to put a title tag on every link. Do you think they belong only on the links you mentioned in JIRA 2815, or on all links
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[15:16:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: i think we're going to need one more day for testing
[15:16:55 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: that will push us to tomorrow or Monday?
[15:17:20 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> that will mean testing till the end of this week (tomorrow) and release on monday and tuesday
[15:17:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: how does that sit with you?
[15:21:44 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: we're still looking at a couple of blockers, have a bunch of testing tasks still to go. I think once we get the blockers and the high priority testing tasks cleared away we can move onto releasing
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[15:23:59 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: i follow you
[15:24:05 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> if you say go, I go
[15:24:09 EDT(-0400)] * jessm bows
[15:24:19 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: (smile) thanks
[15:24:31 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: so one more day?
[15:25:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... i'll send out a notice to the list and update the wiki and the calendar
[15:25:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> awesome
[15:26:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: I expect some of this is the pain points of diving into Engage work while we release – that's fine, we'll get better
[15:27:22 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: yes.. i think this is just part of the learning curve for us as we have multiple projects to focus on.
[15:27:33 EDT(-0400)] * jessm nods
[15:30:00 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: ping
[15:33:46 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: pong
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[15:46:24 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: hey, i'm wondering if you and I can have a skype chat sometime?
[15:46:26 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> tomrorow?
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[15:58:29 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: ah could do that, i'll be in after 2pm
[16:13:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh, King Justin_o: a question about the rich text editor quick-start example status, and the status of the component itself:
[16:13:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i believe it is still in sneak peek
[16:13:59 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> if that's what you meant
[16:14:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000, elicochran: We're bouncing ideas around for our Uploader Opera issue...
[16:14:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we can chat about it here.
[16:14:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> that's part of the question, Justin_o
[16:14:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sorry for having started an offline discussion about it (wink)
[16:14:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the quick-start example is dependent on fckeditor, which still lives in the tests folder - is this ok?
[16:14:32 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> to have a quick-start example referencing the tests folder?
[16:14:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ah forgot about that
[16:14:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> fj4000: I actually thought that you meant the whole Uploader from the start
[16:14:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> given that it's sneak-peek, it's probably ok
[16:14:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but why absolute position the swf?
[16:15:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but our tutorials, etc. might want to make explicit mention of that...
[16:15:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> by the way, I'm testing it right now
[16:15:19 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> fj4000: but I'm not quite there yet
[16:15:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> elicochran
[16:15:25 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yeah, i wasnt too clear
[16:15:28 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sorry about that
[16:15:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but if it's still in sneak-peek: should its quick-start be right in there with the production component's quick-start? << Justin_o
[16:15:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i was just yapping about ideas
[16:15:47 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think we could probably move it to the top level lib without it causing a problem... it just may be too late now
[16:16:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> argggh, I have to do this on my server
[16:16:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: 2:30p tomorrow?
[16:16:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the local version has deeper issues on Opera
[16:16:14 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> anastasiac: sneak-peek things do live right along side production things.
[16:17:02 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, let's leave it, but I'll make a note of it in the tuturials, just explaining that it's referring to the tests folder because it's still in sneak-peek
[16:17:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think it might be confusing otherwise
[16:18:32 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: sounds good
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[16:19:06 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: i'm jesshmitchell on skype
[16:19:37 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> ok, i'm jamonation
[16:20:22 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> elicochran: i think hidding/showing the uploader is working for me
[16:20:27 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> are you working on this issue?
[16:20:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I am
[16:21:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'm confused
[16:21:18 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> fj
[16:21:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> fj4000: what did you try, and what worked?
[16:22:08 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so, instead of display:none/block to show and hide the uploader, i tried visibility:hidden/visible
[16:22:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> just to see if it would break the uplaoder still
[16:22:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> where did you make the change?
[16:22:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and what it seems is i can continue to work with the uploader after this, but Colin is showing me how to do this the right way
[16:22:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i only did this through DragonFly
[16:23:08 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so nothing solid yet (tongue)
[16:23:25 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ah, I can't even get DragonFly to work on my Mac with the Uploader so you're a step ahead of me
[16:23:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> by the way, something strange happens when I try to do this via code...
[16:48:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> fj4000 and colinclark: I can confirm that setting the visibility works... but it's a bear for a number of reasons... the biggest is that in order to display and show these elements using visibility we must make sure that we're not using hide() or show() on them anywhere or the display css setting will compete with the visibility setting
[16:48:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I could believe how many places I had to touch just to test this
[16:48:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> couldn't
[16:49:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> believe
[16:50:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> then there is additional CSS burden to position the elements and define their space on the page if they are absolute positioned.
[16:51:18 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ouch
[16:51:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That seems pretty problematic.
[16:52:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran: I looked at the code and talked with fj4000 briefly about it...
[16:52:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is it enough, in manuallyDegrade, to change the behaviour of toggleVisibility()
[16:52:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> At the moment, it simply calls show() and hide()
[16:52:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> whereas we might ensure that they both are shown, and then set the visibility accordingly?
[16:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I tried that, but I also need to remove the display:none settings in CSS
[16:53:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> since those are mutually exclusive of the visibility settings
[16:53:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran: Really. Should you be able to do something like this:
[16:54:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ah, don't worry about the initial state?
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[16:55:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://www.pastie.org/493254
[16:55:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> which is the same as ensuring that the element doesn't have a display style, then adding the visibility attribute
[16:55:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yes, that should work
[16:56:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> let me try it
[17:01:25 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: that works quite well... still has the positioning problem
[17:01:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[17:01:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> seems so hacky to have to suddenly absolutely position things
[17:03:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> let me try this size hack
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[17:12:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark and fj4000: the size hack works
[17:12:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000 bailed
[17:12:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> good to know it's working
[17:12:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> sad side effect, the objects are still in the tab order
[17:12:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ick
[17:12:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awful
[17:12:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I could combine visibility with size hack
[17:13:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I know that seems odd, but then they would be invisible but not take up any space
[17:13:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> this just seems like such a messy hack!
[17:17:05 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: visibility:hidden + height: 0px + width: 0px + padding: 0, works great (I'm adding and removing the class to do it, cleaner and the code doesn't have to remember the old state)
[17:17:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> makes sense
[17:17:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> visibility:hidden removes the elements from the tab order
[17:17:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> cool
[17:18:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I have a very bad taste in my mouth about this fix
[17:19:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: what do you think?
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[17:19:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran: Well, it seems awful. But what, concretely, are the consequences of it?
[17:20:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: none that I can see... I haven't tested it deeply
[17:21:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but it doesn't seem to change the behavior at all
[17:21:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> we're hiding the element but through something other than display: none
[17:21:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sounds like we should work through it with Justin...
[17:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> the king has left the building
[17:21:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and then perhaps we can special-case it for Opera-only
[17:21:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> that was my thought
[17:22:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> shall I submit a patch (perhaps two, one special-cased for Opera and one general
[17:22:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> )
[17:22:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ?
[17:22:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, I think I'd certainly submit the special cased patch
[17:22:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: ^
[17:22:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> that makes a lot of sense.
[17:22:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> OK
[17:23:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess we feel that this is hacky enough that there's no reason to do it broadly, right?
[17:24:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> if there was any functional downside, I would say we shouldn't but I don't see a downside except for wacky code that will confuse and puzzle anyone who looks closely
[17:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but then the special case code will be just as wacky but will at least make it clear that the wackiness is because of a bug
[17:24:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> so I guess I'm saying that we shouldn't special-case it
[17:25:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> just accept our wackiness
[17:25:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> of course I should test in IE6 first
[17:25:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> speaking of wack
[17:26:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: testing IE6 now
[17:27:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> really? but wouldn't we just want to do something less wacky for platforms that don't freak out at wackiness?
[17:27:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:27:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> but the wackiness is in the code, not in what the users see
[17:27:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I can see it either way
[17:29:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: IE6 and 7 sailed through with flying colors
[17:30:19 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I'll write it both ways and then we can decide tomorrow with the King
[17:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, great
[17:56:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sounds good