fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-01-28

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[11:57:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> colinclark needs a name
[11:58:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: What sort of name should I have?
[11:58:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> maybe quadratic-sail?
[11:58:39 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> or octoganal sail?
[11:58:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I have recently been called "O Triangular Sail," "DUAD," and of course "King Penguin."
[11:59:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000: Are octagonal sails aerodynamic?
[11:59:07 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> well..."Emperor Penguin" goes nice with your King
[11:59:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ha
[11:59:49 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 wonders how long an octagonal sail would last in the real world
[12:00:00 EST(-0500)] <athena7> my spouse is a sailor, i could inquire . . .
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[12:00:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: Me too. Hence somehow being dubbed "O Triangular Sail" by Bosmon the other day.
[12:00:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> He is so weird.
[12:00:44 EST(-0500)] <athena7> lol
[12:01:08 EST(-0500)] <athena7> it's ok, we like him anyway
[12:01:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: What sort of a boat does your spouse sail?
[12:01:23 EST(-0500)] <athena7> merchant mariner, so really big ones
[12:01:35 EST(-0500)] <athena7> less with the pleasure yachting
[12:02:34 EST(-0500)] <athena7> colin did you see my note in #uportal about the google APIs?
[12:14:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: I'll catch up, sorry I missed it.
[12:14:34 EST(-0500)] <athena7> not a big deal
[12:14:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm impressed by the merchant mariner thing, too.
[12:15:36 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah, it's cool, although it's hard being apart sometimes
[12:15:49 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i did mention it to him a while back, but that was before i did more testing to narrow it down
[12:15:54 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i don't know what's causing it
[12:16:09 EST(-0500)] <athena7> er, wrong chat window
[12:19:53 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> fj4000: hi, I'm just looking at the fss test page you committed... i'm not exactly sure how it works. would you be able to explain it to me
[12:19:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is there a ticket for this Google bug athena7 is encountering?
[12:20:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think we talked about it here the other week. She's got a test page that shows it.
[12:20:18 EST(-0500)] <athena7> there may not be because for a time it seemed i could just get around it by using the newer google api, but sadly there isn't one for maps
[12:20:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon should take a look at it.
[12:21:08 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yep.. i don't think i filed it because i thought it was a google bug...
[12:21:35 EST(-0500)] <athena7> right . . . didn't you find a specific error?
[12:22:20 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> yes... i'm trying to remember what it was now.. but something to do with google.. let me go double check the logs
[12:24:23 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> athena7: JScript runtime error: 'Google-exportSymbol' is underfined
[12:24:43 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> athena7: is it still only a problem in IE?
[12:24:46 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yep
[12:24:52 EST(-0500)] <athena7> and only when the channel is dragged
[12:25:02 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i think the google search itself works ok
[12:25:35 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay... thanks i'll post a link after i have finished filing the bug
[12:25:49 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> Justin_o: sure
[12:26:07 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I'll IM you the details
[12:26:14 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. thanks
[12:29:28 EST(-0500)] <athena7> thanks!
[12:31:03 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> athena7: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2171
[12:31:11 EST(-0500)] <athena7> thanks
[12:31:32 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i think it may be lacking in detail so feel free to comment as necessary of pass along info to me to add to it
[12:31:33 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> thanks
[12:32:58 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sure
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[14:11:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Do we have version numbers in JIRA for beyond 1.0?
[14:11:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ecochran and I are working on our Uploader 1.0 wishlist, and already we're identifying bugs and features we want to get to, but which will likely land in 1.2.
[14:12:13 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I'm not the one who adds the version numbers in, meaning I haven't done it before, but I can look into adding ones for you... would you like it to stretch to 2.0
[14:12:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: That makes sense.
[14:12:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think anastasiac has added version numbers in the past, but I don't see any reason why you can't just go ahead and do it.
[14:13:11 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, go ahead!
[14:13:25 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. will do
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[14:20:11 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I have added the versions up to 2.0... please let me know if you are unable to see them
[14:20:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Thanks!
[14:20:42 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: np.... also is the next release going to be 0.8 or 0.9 i'm wondering if I should remove one of those
[14:20:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Good question.
[14:21:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I dunno. Does anyone have a preference for this release being called 0.8 vs. 0.9?
[14:21:43 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> i would prefer 0.8 because items in jira are already marked with 0.8, but that's the only reason
[14:27:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I think that's reasonable.
[14:27:21 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. so i'll remove 0.9... thanks
[14:29:22 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> fj4000, do you have a sec?
[14:29:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> sure
[14:29:59 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm looking at a spacing issue in pager that's very odd
[14:30:10 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> FLUID-2124
[14:30:21 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://build.fluidproject.org/fluid/sample-code/pager/renderer/pager-render.html
[14:30:57 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> if you use firebug to inspect and edit the html, you'll see that the <li> elements that are too closely spaced together
[14:31:01 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> (that's the numbers)
[14:31:06 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ah
[14:31:09 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> have no line break between them
[14:31:16 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> if you add line breaks, the spacing is reasonable
[14:31:23 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> is this expected??
[14:32:03 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> is this a case of the line break being considered generic white space, and being converted into a space?
[14:32:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> well, since they're inline, they should have a single whitespace char between them, right?
[14:32:20 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes, but without the line break, they don't
[14:32:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> oh wait
[14:32:29 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I see they dont in the source
[14:32:34 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> thats why they're so close
[14:32:51 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> what's why they're so close? the lack of line break?
[14:32:54 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> if you want it like that in the source (with no whitespace) then you should just add a margin
[14:32:58 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> no
[14:33:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you dont want to put a \n necessarily
[14:33:13 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you just need a " "
[14:33:19 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> and that should do
[14:33:29 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> the source is being produced by the renderer, so I want to understand why the lack of line break causes this problem
[14:33:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> if its rendered out
[14:33:44 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm not sure if we want the renderer to be installing space characters
[14:33:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> abs. not
[14:33:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so in the css
[14:34:03 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I would just add a small margin
[14:34:12 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> on either side, but no extra markup needed
[14:34:28 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, so the solution should be in css, then. good
[14:34:33 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yup
[14:34:45 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> cool - thanks!
[14:35:11 EST(-0500)]

[14:35:20 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> excellent!
[14:35:32 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> oops
[14:35:38 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I meant .page-link
[14:35:48 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> the other selector refs. the UL
[14:36:14 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> cool
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[15:52:29 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> a question for everyone....
[15:52:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> re: FSS containers: does it make sense to explicitly set container widths and positions
[15:53:09 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> when it's going to requires 2 bad things
[15:53:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> at the cost of 1 very good thing
[15:53:45 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> cons: explicitly setting things mean it's not going to work for everyone out of the box
[15:54:00 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> con: its a LOT of maintenance
[15:54:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> pro: it does SOMETHING right out of the box, even if its not perfect
[15:54:42 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> pro: the numbers will be good enough for 75% of the use cases
[15:54:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> any thoughts?
[15:55:04 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> maybe a concrete example?
[15:56:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> fj4000: not quite sure what you mean by "explicitly set container widths and positions", so not sure how to process the rest of your thoughts
[15:56:48 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> do you mean styles like "fl-fixed-750" being 750 wide??
[15:57:00 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> are you considering getting rid of those styles?
[15:57:02 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> Yes.
[15:57:02 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> A concrete example:
[15:57:10 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> I have a setup for columns
[15:57:22 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you can do many different setups at the moment
[15:57:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> which makes for a lot of css code to maintain, like so:
[15:58:37 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you can have mixed columns like what you can do with "fl-col-mixed", which allow for both flexable and fixed width columns together
[15:58:39 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> the thing is
[15:58:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> at the moment, the widths and margins are hardcoded
[15:59:01 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> was there supposed to be something after the "like so" above?
[15:59:02 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> some css?
[15:59:05 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> sure
[15:59:16 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> didn't see anything
[15:59:26 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> im going to paste it in
[15:59:36 EST(-0500)]

<fj4000> .fl-col-mixed-300 .fl-col-fixed

Unknown macro: {width}

[15:59:37 EST(-0500)]

<fj4000> .fl-col-mixed-300 .fl-col-flex

Unknown macro: {margin-left}

[15:59:45 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> what Im wondering
[16:00:06 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> is should I remove all these #s
[16:00:17 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> and ask ppl to add their own
[16:00:31 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so I dont need to maintain a ton of #s
[16:00:37 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I was wondering about that kind of thing (if I understand you correctly) when I was working with it
[16:00:41 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes
[16:00:51 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> what would you like to see?
[16:01:00 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I was thinking I wanted a fixed width, but not any of the fixed widths that were currently available
[16:01:13 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so here's what I was thinking when I made this
[16:01:18 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I was wondering if we could have some way of a fixed width that I get to set somehow
[16:01:28 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes, so you can right now
[16:01:29 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> BUT
[16:01:35 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you need to know how to do it in CSS
[16:01:39 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so thats the only cathc
[16:01:42 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> *catch
[16:02:00 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> can we make styles, etc. enough that we can add a simple instruction of what to do?
[16:02:20 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> e.g. "use class xxx, and in your css, create a line that does y, and you're good to go"
[16:02:34 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> hand-hold them through the single step needed to specify the actual width they want
[16:02:46 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> in the docs?
[16:02:50 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes
[16:02:53 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ok
[16:02:58 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> in the 'here's how to use these styles'
[16:02:58 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so, what your saying is
[16:03:04 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> ok
[16:03:34 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'd be happy to user test anything you come up with
[16:03:42 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> that would be great!
[16:04:02 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> oh - also:
[16:04:07 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> since you're in there mucking about:
[16:04:21 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 stops mucking and looks up innocently
[16:04:34 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> what about the notion of not fixed-width exacly, but fixed-min-width, or fixed-max-width
[16:04:42 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> am I making sense?
[16:04:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> not supported in IE6
[16:04:56 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you need a nasty work around to accomplish it at the moment
[16:05:00 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> very very nast
[16:05:03 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> *nasty
[16:05:16 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> but supported in everything else?
[16:05:19 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yup
[16:05:31 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> blech
[16:05:32 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> its a beautiful thing, when it works
[16:05:46 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> and a necessary thing, really
[16:05:58 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> for IE6, you either need some crazy css expressions (which are like JS but 10x slower)
[16:06:08 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> or real JS, which is out of the scope of FSS
[16:06:13 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> or css for that matter
[16:06:14 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> blech
[16:06:22 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> indeed
[16:06:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes, js is out of the scope of css
[16:07:01 EST(-0500)] <fj4000>
[16:07:15 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, if you come up with something that let's me have fixed width where I can specify the width, let me know!
[16:07:37 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I just discovered your text fss stuff, and am going to look at it
[16:08:09 EST(-0500)] * fj4000 scratches his head
[16:08:15 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you could always change the width
[16:08:24 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> of anything - fixed of flexible
[16:08:27 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac scratches her head
[16:08:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> how?
[16:08:36 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> so
[16:08:45 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> if I pick fl-fixed-750, won't it be 750?
[16:08:47 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> lets say you use the fl-container-500 class
[16:08:55 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> and yo uwant 575px width instead
[16:09:12 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you simply do one of 2 things
[16:09:42 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> change fl-container-750 to just fl-container and write your own width class on top
[16:09:44 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> OR
[16:10:01 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> you simply override fl-container-750 with a new width declaration
[16:10:12 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> i dont recommend the latter though
[16:10:33 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> since it will have the same adverse effects like modifying js prototypes
[16:11:07 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> so maybe an addendum to the walkthrough describing how to "change fl-container-750 to just fl-container and write your own width class on top" ?
[16:11:18 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac>
[16:11:20 EST(-0500)] <fj4000> yes, i realize its sorely missing from the docs
[16:11:38 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> if you write it, I'll user test it
[16:11:46 EST(-0500)] <fj4000>
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