fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-02-27

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Last updated: Feb 27, 2012Version comment
30 min read

[09:08:52 CST(-0600)] <michelled> alexn1, cindyli: I just pushed alexn1's FLUID-4619 branch into demo - it changes the markup so you will want to update

[09:13:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled: jameswy: I'm typing in two windows

[09:13:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> consolidating here

[09:13:12 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile)

[09:13:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: michelled says we can maybe have cindyli help with getting the wiki together today

[09:13:38 CST(-0600)] <jessm> or wait until tomorrow for AC and maybe get some of greggy if he's around

[09:13:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> what do you think?

[09:15:16 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: I'm looking into the branch FLUID-4616 which is going to be merged into the demo branch and I see that all files are of a format Filename.fr.json NOT Filename.transcripts.fr.json is it OK ?

[09:15:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: ^

[09:16:25 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: I think we can wait for AC, and get her started on it in the early morning. The only thing we need to do is have the following prepared:

[09:17:48 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> 1) Content (text, links, images), 2) Structure (title, headings, summary card/sections, etc.), 3) Links out to articles from the homepage, and 4) Decision on the left-hand TOC (if we're keeping that at all).

[09:25:41 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> yes, alexn1, i can convert them into transcript files after the merge.

[09:32:23 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: I pushed new French files.

[09:32:31 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> thanks, alexn1

[09:37:33 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: i'm going to use that list as my guide today

[09:39:22 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark is bringing up a good point

[09:39:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh hi

[09:39:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Here I was, talking off channel

[09:39:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy, jessm: I worry about technical snags

[09:39:50 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: michelled: colinclark: and cindyli let's get the wiki workin' today

[09:39:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> with the ILDH

[09:39:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> best to experience them today rather than tomorrow

[09:40:30 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> alexn1, michelled, colinclark, i just pushed into demo branch that simply renames the caption json files to transcript files.

[09:40:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Much as it kills me to distract from other work, I was thinking perhaps cindyli could help with any ILDH tweaks that need to be done. She spins PHP in her sleep.

[09:41:05 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> lol

[09:41:45 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> not a problem, let me know what i can help with

[09:42:58 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: we need to be able to add content

[09:43:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: that's priority #1

[09:43:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and as jameswy said above, we might need to adjust the left nav

[09:43:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Can you not add content now?

[09:43:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> this is our playbook: jameswy: 1) Content (text, links, images), 2) Structure (title, headings, summary card/sections, etc.), 3) Links out to articles from the homepage, and 4) Decision on the left-hand TOC (if we're keeping that at all).

[09:43:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: no

[09:43:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you elaborate, jessm?

[09:43:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> not new pages

[09:44:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: i believe that jameswy and i both have accts. that allow us to edit existing pages, but not create new ones

[09:44:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hmm

[09:44:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> odd

[09:44:07 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: We can create new ones.

[09:44:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> well, i'm just plain wrong then

[09:44:24 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> It's a bit gimmicky, but essentially:

[09:45:07 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> 1) From an existing page, create a link to a new page. Save page. Click on link. Brings you to a new editable page. OR 2) Just go to the address of the would-be page, and edit away.

[09:45:37 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> But, we have no means of editing the left-hand TOC (it's hard-coded, which is why we need to do it last, or whenever we've decided what our final content is going to be).

[09:45:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's gimmicky? Isn't that how boring old wikis work?

[09:45:58 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> And, we have no means of changing page titles (which is why I've been waiting to the very end to populate the wiki).

[09:46:15 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> colinclark: Haha, maybe... I rather like Confluence's affordance of "add page".

[09:46:18 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Maybe I'm just spoiled.

[09:46:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No

[09:46:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Boring old wikis suck

[09:47:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I imagine the only thing we might need cindyli for is the hard-coded PHP for the navigation

[09:47:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the table of contents or whatever it is

[09:47:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I remember Heidi couldn't figure out any way to dynamically generate a table of contents like this

[09:47:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so she whipped up some PHP

[09:47:50 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> which wiki r u talking about? wiki.fluidproject.org?

[09:48:08 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: http://handbook.floeproject.org

[09:48:21 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ah. cool

[09:50:12 CST(-0600)] <michelled> cindyli, alexn1: the french transcripts appear to be the old translation

[09:50:22 CST(-0600)] <michelled> from before charly fixed them

[09:50:43 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I just rebuilt the build and you'll notice that the french captions and transcripts don't match

[09:51:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> an easy way to check is the use of the word 'backbone'. Charly changed it to 'colonne vertebrale'

[09:53:29 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> looking into it

[09:53:47 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thanks (smile)

[09:54:04 CST(-0600)] * jessm has a new, clearer understanding of our wiki woes – just old style

[09:55:59 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> michelled: Where can I see the current build?

[09:56:13 CST(-0600)] <michelled> http://build.fluidproject.org/videodemo/videoPlayer/demos/Mammals.html

[09:57:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: This seems to be the key http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Moving_a_page

[09:58:03 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: Cindy could you please take a look into the issue michelled pointed out? It looks like Mammals.fr.json and Mammals.fr.vtt have the latest translation but the file Mammals.transcripts.fr.json has old text for some reason.

[09:58:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: Please don't cringe too much at the captions/transcripts buttons. They suck and I'm working on 'em as we speak. (wink)

[09:58:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: I haven't quite hit pixel perfection, but I do have some really hot linear gradients and inner glows

[09:59:06 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> alexn1: yes, i'm comparing the files but the new transcript file appears to have the new content

[09:59:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: GRADIENTS

[09:59:23 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: do we need Mammals.fr.json at all if we are using Mammals.transcripts.fr.json? Maybe we could remove the first one and keep the latter, after the changing to the new translations of course (smile)

[09:59:47 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Haha, awesome.

[10:00:01 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ah, i didn't really push. what the ...

[10:00:16 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> sorry, my fault. one sec

[10:01:23 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: no worries. (smile) big thanks michelled for finding this!

[10:01:24 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok, pushed. michelled, can you try again? sorry

[10:02:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So jessm: We have page renames (roughly) figured out, if you follow that tutorial I pasted in

[10:02:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Beyond that, if cindyli is will she can help with any really technical stuff

[10:02:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> My humble advice is to start getting new content in right away

[10:02:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since it will help Jutta see where we're going more concretely

[10:02:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and will allow us to address potential technical issues early

[10:03:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: ^

[10:03:16 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Yep.

[10:03:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: how can i help?

[10:04:14 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Either by writing content, or starting to populate the wiki with what we have.

[10:04:21 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok, jameswy & jessm, can someone create me an account on wiki and point me to the source code?

[10:04:34 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> avtar?

[10:04:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I believe any administrator can do it, cindyli

[10:05:01 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> cool

[10:05:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm and jameswy and I are admins

[10:05:05 CST(-0600)] <alexn1> cindyli: I skimmed through the transcripts and translations. It looks that captions and transcripts should be in sync now.

[10:05:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: i'm not sure i am

[10:05:36 CST(-0600)] <michelled> looks good cindyli

[10:05:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay, jessm and jameswy and cindyli

[10:05:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lets get this figured out (smile)

[10:05:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> once sec

[10:06:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Do me a quick favour: log in and go to "My Preferences"

[10:06:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and tell me if you're part of the Administrators group

[10:06:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> um, yes i am

[10:06:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay

[10:07:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i was sure i wasn't because i just created my acct. – sorry

[10:07:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let's figure out how to grant permissions in mediawiki

[10:07:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in the meantime, cindyli, can you sign up for an account?

[10:07:26 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> sure

[10:08:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It looks like doing anything interesting with user permissions may involve adjusting config files

[10:09:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can I just say that I think I hate MediaWiki, and get that part over with?

[10:09:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: Just to put it on your radar, we've got this instance of MediaWiki http://handbook.floeproject.org

[10:09:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And it's going to feature hugely in a presentation to Hewlett later this week

[10:09:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli might need a hand from you at some point

[10:10:25 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok, i've signed up

[10:10:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: The source code lives here: https://github.com/fluid-project/handbook.floeproject.org

[10:10:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This may or may not have been set up fully as one of our Git-backed websites

[10:11:02 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> cool. what the first thing to tackle? adding content or table of content?

[10:11:39 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> and i do need more details on what the problem was and what your guys want.

[10:12:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: When they need specific help, I think jameswy and jessm will get in touch

[10:12:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think they're still just getting ready to put in content

[10:12:16 CST(-0600)] <avtar> i just signed up for an account

[10:12:22 CST(-0600)] <avtar> could someone please make me an admin?

[10:12:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: If I can figure out how (smile)

[10:12:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: I think cindyli will need ssh access to that server if that's okay

[10:13:05 CST(-0600)] <avtar> yup that should be fine

[10:13:15 CST(-0600)] <avtar> cindyli: please email me your ssh public key

[10:13:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: Can I have shell access too, just in case?

[10:13:37 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok, avtar

[10:13:38 CST(-0600)] <avtar> sure

[10:13:42 CST(-0600)] <avtar> i think i have your key

[10:13:56 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> avtar: you have my key too

[10:13:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: Yep, you should

[10:14:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks so much

[10:14:03 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Do you think http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Considerations+for+using+and+designing+inclusive+technologies+for+the+educational+setting and http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/General+principles+and+guidelines+for+designing+for+teachers+as+consumers+and+producers+of+OER are pluggable into the ILDH?

[10:14:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: https://github.com/fluid-project/handbook.floeproject.org

[10:14:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: yes

[10:14:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> we can do some editing as needed

[10:17:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> eek, avtar, Administrators clearly aren't Sysops in MediaWiki

[10:18:14 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm, colinclark, michelled: "Fluid video player" or "Floe video player"?

[10:18:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Let's go with the latter

[10:20:07 CST(-0600)] <avtar> colinclark: i currently don't have permissions for this page http://handbook.floeproject.org/index.php/Special:UserRights

[10:20:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar: Yes, exactly

[10:20:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Neither do I!

[10:20:19 CST(-0600)] <avtar> ah

[10:20:20 CST(-0600)] <avtar> ok

[10:20:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> eek

[10:20:32 CST(-0600)] <avtar> i can make the required changes in the database then

[10:20:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We need to be "Bureaucrats," apparently

[10:20:57 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> colinclark, avtar: I have access to it.

[10:21:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: YAY

[10:21:06 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> What do you do you need done?

[10:21:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you make me a bureaucrat?

[10:21:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then I'll add everyone else?

[10:22:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: You're Cindy on the Handbook wiki, I guess?

[10:22:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> To ask the obvious question (smile)

[10:22:31 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> yes, colinclark

[10:22:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> great, you're now a Bureaucrat as well

[10:23:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: What's your account name?

[10:23:22 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> thanks

[10:23:38 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: username is jessmitchell

[10:23:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: You already were a bureaucrat

[10:23:56 CST(-0600)] <jessm> real name: jess mitchell

[10:23:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no work required

[10:24:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> roger that

[10:24:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Apparently AC made you one on Valentine's Day

[10:24:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> because she loves you

[10:24:20 CST(-0600)] <jessm> that's lovely

[10:24:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so, best as I can tell...

[10:24:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> avtar, jessm, cindyli, jameswy, me, and anastasiac are all Bureaucrats and can do lots of stuff

[10:25:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and now I added michelled, just for fun

[10:25:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Do you have everything you need for now to get started?

[10:25:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: i think i do, eys

[10:25:52 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yes

[10:26:18 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: no worries now about renaming pages too, right

[10:26:23 CST(-0600)] <jessm> that link you sent solves the day?

[10:26:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Yep, just follow that link

[10:26:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> k, got it

[10:26:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not 100% sure that it will change inbound links automatically

[10:26:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So keep an eye on that.

[10:26:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It will create a redirect page, which is great for external links

[10:27:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I hope it will change any references to that page within the wiki itself. We'll see.

[10:27:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: I'm going to dive in and create pages for the existing google docs – you ok with that?

[10:27:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: fingers crossed – it could be a mess otherwise

[10:28:19 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: I think so. If you give me a few minutes, I'm almost done with the biggest one (Video content & learning).

[10:28:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ok, jameswy i'll do it after standup

[10:28:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: actually why don't' i do it after lunch if you're still puttering

[10:29:15 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Let's coordinate tightly, otherwise the content won't be in sync (and I'll forget which ones I'm still working on but aren't up, which ones are currently up, etc.)

[10:29:20 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: Sounds good.

[10:29:50 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yes, this is why after lunch is a good idea methinks

[11:35:13 CST(-0600)] <michelled> alexn1, Bosmon, cindyli, colinclark: I updated our plan page on the wiki: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Floe+Demo+Plan

[11:35:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: Awesome!

[11:35:23 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> thanks, michelled

[11:35:26 CST(-0600)] <michelled> np

[11:35:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: I'd say hang out with alexn1 for fullscreen and then pair with me on the buttons

[11:35:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since, as you say, they're pretty critical

[12:28:05 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> michelle, alexn1, colinclark, I did a push into demo branch to fix the issue that closing the transcript leaves a grey background behind.

[12:28:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> cindyli - that's great

[12:28:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Does the video now expand back into the vacated space?

[12:29:40 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> expand? no, the video only adjusts its position to fill up the vacated space.

[12:29:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes

[12:29:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That is what I meant

[12:29:56 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> cool

[12:58:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: We've been talking privately, but I thought it was worth surfacing publicly

[12:58:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so...

[12:58:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I came to realize two problematic things:

[12:58:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. Despite giving them patches several years ago, the release version of the jQuery UI Slider doesn't include its own ARIA

[12:59:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. We appear to have handled the addition of the necessary ARIA in an ad-hoc way

[12:59:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Meaning, UIO's TextFieldSlider did it by itself

[12:59:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The VideoPlayer, equally, does it by itself

[12:59:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in two separate places

[13:00:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You mentioned that your UIO refactoring yesterday included the addition of ARIA directly to the Slider component used by the TextFieldSlider

[13:00:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So that's awesome

[13:00:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Do you see any reason why I can't make an Infusion build off your branch and commit it to the Video Player demo branch?

[13:00:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then start using your Slider component in both the Scrubber and volume buttons for the Video Player?

[13:03:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - that's fine

[13:03:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> There are many aspects of this branch that are not suitable to go back into the core framework

[13:04:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I expect that the slider work is fine

[13:04:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As long as your use of it for the time being is scoped to the demo branch, it should be good

[13:04:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Yep

[13:05:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> We could do with some better tests for the TextfieldSlider... they still pass, but are incredibly thin

[13:06:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For example, they don't actually test the ARIA functionality

[13:06:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Oh wait, they do (smile)

[13:06:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Still, there could be more of them...

[13:16:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yura, Bosmon: in the proto style, how do you use messagekey for a link.. when I use it messagekey, the target isn't applied.. if i use linktext instead, the target works, but the text isn't correct

[13:17:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - messagekey needs to be nested inside text

[13:18:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Take a look at renderer test cases, line 427

[13:18:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: thanks

[13:24:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: have you ever heard the expression "Chatty Cathy?"

[13:24:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: oh yes

[13:24:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: cousin to Nosey Parker (wink)

[13:24:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol

[13:24:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: So, apparently it is a New World expression

[13:24:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> not strictly Canadian

[13:25:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatty_Cathy

[13:25:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "My name is Talky Tina, and I'm going to kill you."

[13:32:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey Bosmon

[13:32:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I thought you had mentioned something about splitting off the CSS for the media panel into a separate file

[13:32:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is that correct?

[13:32:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Which one is it? https://github.com/michelled/infusion/tree/FLUID-4607/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/css

[13:33:37 CST(-0600)] <athena1> i vouch for that as a common american phrase, too

[13:33:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol

[13:38:07 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: ping

[13:38:16 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> yes, jessm

[13:38:35 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: i'm wondering if you can help with the hard coded php navigation in the ILDH wiki we pointed to earlier?

[13:38:48 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> sure, jessm

[13:38:57 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> more detail pls (wink)

[13:39:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: we'd like to remove "who is this for?" and "techniques" from the navigation

[13:39:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and we'd like to add the following...

[13:40:11 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ILDH/Home

[13:40:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Introduction

[13:40:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Why is this important?

[13:40:12 CST(-0600)] <jessm> What is the approach?

[13:40:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Body/techniques/something?

[13:40:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Inclusive learning

[13:40:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Accessibility principles

[13:40:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Learner needs and preferences SKIP

[13:40:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Video content and learning SKIP

[13:40:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Audio content and learning SKIP

[13:40:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Authoring of content

[13:40:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Content simplification

[13:40:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oh, that might not have pasted well

[13:40:26 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> pretty well

[13:40:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: but Introduction and Body/Techniques/something aren't links

[13:40:46 CST(-0600)] <jessm> they're just headings

[13:40:57 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok

[13:40:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and the Introduction page now becomes the ILDH/Home

[13:41:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> make sense?

[13:41:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> indents mean sub-pages or at least represented that way

[13:41:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'm on skype if you need to talk through this

[13:42:55 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> understand. the new navigation should be hardcoded as well?

[13:43:05 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> or auto-generated based on something?

[13:43:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cindyli: It'd be awesome to auto-generate it somehow

[13:43:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not really sure what sort of facility MediaWiki might offer for this

[13:43:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Perhaps tags?

[13:44:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think, to start, it might make sense just to hardcode it

[13:44:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then we can look at the many tagging extension available for MW

[13:44:58 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> i guess each link on the navigation is pointing to a individual page, which makes the detection of certain tags perhaps impossible, unless there's an association gets defined somewhere

[13:45:09 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> i will look it up in mediaWiki features

[13:45:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> thanks cindyli!

[13:45:44 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> np

[13:46:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - thefile is called UIOptions-media.css

[13:46:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I don't see it there

[13:46:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Am I crazy?

[13:46:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can you send me a Github link?

[13:47:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Good grief

[13:47:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I can't believe I didn't commit it

[13:47:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What a n00b mistake

[13:48:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ah!

[13:48:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I did add it

[13:48:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And then I undid my commit

[13:48:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And then forgot to add it the 2nd time....

[13:49:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, it's added now

[13:54:41 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> michelled: the demo branch is broken with the merge of 4607

[13:57:50 CST(-0600)] <michelled> cindyli: try now - I hadn't modified the js links in the uio i frame

[14:00:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks Bosmon

[14:00:52 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> ok

[14:01:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> n00bmon

[14:01:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What merge just happened?

[14:02:11 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> michelled: working but with one error: "NetworkError: 404 Not Found - http://localhost/videoPlayer/lib/infusion/components/uiOptions/css/UIOptions-media.css"

[14:02:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> cindyli - merge again (smile)

[14:02:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled just added your FLUID-4607 Infusion to the Video Player demo branch, Bosmon

[14:02:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> MERGE AGAIN, DICK WHITTINGTON

[14:02:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: it isn't in the video player repo yet

[14:02:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> unless you added it?

[14:02:49 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I'm in the midst if you haven't

[14:02:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> who me?

[14:02:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i'm too busy making a mess

[14:04:18 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, yura: just saw a commit go into infusion that looks like yura committed and merged without review. Apparently Bosmon you looked at it, and commented on the commit, but the comment didn't make it over to our repo with the merge. It's probably best to stick to pull requests for merges to make sure everything is tracked.

[14:04:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> THE KING SPEAKS!

[14:04:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> OK King

[14:05:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The King would probably smite us for this Video Player schism

[14:05:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I had noticed that comments attached to pull requests had a slightly better treatment

[14:06:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You mean, having a branch of Infusion?

[14:06:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Surely that's perfectly acceptable....

[14:06:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: it's a shame they aren't all treated alike, but i guess they don't want to bring external comments into another repo.

[14:07:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I just meant more generally

[14:07:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> particularly the chaos of the Video Player demo branch

[14:07:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: from hearing all the work going on there, i'm afraid to look at it (wink)

[14:07:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well.... it's an EMERGENCY : P

[14:07:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But from what I can see, the chaos is actually pretty orderly

[14:07:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> YES!

[14:08:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I mean, we remember the UIOptions work prior to the 1.4 release

[14:08:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled will undoubtedly disagree

[14:08:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think that was much more chaotic

[14:08:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> We had numerous branches that we weren't even quite sure what was in them, or how they related to each other....

[14:09:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Anyway, michelled, do let me know when the big merge is done, and I will use it to base my integration work "off of"

[14:09:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> GOD I hate saying "off of" so much!

[14:12:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's an especially awesome statement with the added quotes

[14:12:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - shouldn't we actually fork the FatPanel html frame?

[14:12:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Rather than changing the one in infusion?

[14:13:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well

[14:13:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I guess we have, in effect

[14:13:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But perhaps we should give it a different name

[14:13:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ?

[14:13:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And not keep it in lib/infusion, perhaps

[14:14:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: this is related to the head material?

[14:14:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - yes

[14:14:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This is an outstanding bug in Infusion, ultimately

[14:14:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that we assume you're not using a concatenated build

[14:14:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Can we think of a way of fixing it?

[14:14:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> honestly, I don't really care where we make the change

[14:14:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Eventually, we'll have to do some head rewriting in the build

[14:14:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I believe it's a fairly major impediment for users of UIO

[14:15:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, it is

[14:15:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since every time we use it, we encounter it

[14:15:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> +1 for head rewriting

[14:15:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Definitely one for the King to add to the 1.5 blockers list

[14:15:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I believe we mention something about it in the tutorial

[14:15:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I'm concerned about having a lib/infusion file which differs from the one in the framework

[14:15:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Either way is non-ideal

[14:16:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if we copy the file and modify it elsewhere, we have to remember to keep it in sync

[14:16:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the other way involves remembering that we actually modified it in the first play

[14:16:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> place

[14:16:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Clearly the "infusion" directory in the VideoPlayer is "ours"

[14:16:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in the sense that we, as Infusion users, chose to put it there

[14:16:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes

[14:16:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Any ideas on how we can remind ourselves?

[14:17:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We have a README file in with Infusion

[14:17:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it wouldn't hurt to put a note about it in there as well

[14:17:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the README outlines the revision from which the build was made

[14:17:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and the commands required to reproduce it

[14:17:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Personally I worry more about the risk of "being surprised" than "having to remember"

[14:17:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, certainly a note in the README seems vital

[14:18:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess in some ways, it's less confusing to have outright errors than stuff just mysteriously missing

[14:18:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if you see what I mean

[14:18:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: While we're talking, I'm wondering if you could do a mini-review for me

[14:18:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm starting the process of getting the new menu buttons working

[14:18:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm doing it ultra-incrementally

[14:18:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I've started with this:

[14:18:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - would we get an outright error?

[14:18:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - sure, on review

[14:19:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: We get an outright error if we use the version of the iFrame HTML from Infusion directly

[14:19:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which at least reminds us to modify it

[14:19:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Don't all the files that the "old head" refers to actually exist in the demo?

[14:19:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no

[14:19:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Or is it that they are all at the wrong paths

[14:19:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they've been pruned out

[14:19:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i assume, anyway

[14:19:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ah, interesting

[14:19:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that we just didn't commit the js/ folder

[14:19:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which is pretty sensible

[14:20:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ok, I didn't look around at the environment much

[14:20:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Given this is very obviously a completely slashed version of infusion, I'm less worried now

[14:21:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Is this the kind of thing that our builder currently knows how to produce? (minus the rewritten heads)

[14:21:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Not yet

[14:21:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's a big one that I'd like to also implement for 1.5

[14:21:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> There's an "Ian factor" here

[14:21:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "Infusion looks so big"

[14:21:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And you really, as a user, just have to do a lot of pruning yourself

[14:22:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> omitting the JS folder is no big deal

[14:22:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> b

[14:22:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes

[14:22:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the real mess is in choosing FSS themes that you want and don't want

[14:22:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In fact, in raw codesize, it is really relatively small

[14:22:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> for sure

[14:22:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> the jQuery + jquery UI codebase is much larger

[14:22:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It would still be amazing if we shipped a bundle that was just absolutely what you needed and nothing more

[14:22:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: https://github.com/colinbdclark/videoPlayer/commit/52db579167fbd773580a625a7ed2500fed9f906f

[14:22:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> core jquery just by itself is really pretty gigantic, my some measure - as we discovered during Engage

[14:23:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Once you measure how much code is in it by actually trying to EXECUTE it

[14:23:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Here I have just split out the toggle button and menu buttons into separate files

[14:23:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> They're still in the VP namespace, etc.

[14:23:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> one small step at a time

[14:23:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok

[14:23:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Given this is all ++++++ is there anything particular I should direct my attention to?

[14:25:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Hopefully the "controllers" name is going to go (smile)

[14:25:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon, cindyli: the css file is now in the video player demo branch

[14:26:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: indeed it will

[14:26:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think all you need to watch out for is anything insane

[14:26:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which, as you say, is hard to see :0

[14:26:57 CST(-0600)] <avtar> cindyli, colinclark: you should be able to log into the server hosting handbook.floeproject.org using your ssh keys

[14:27:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks avtar

[14:27:08 CST(-0600)] <avtar> using your first names as user names

[14:27:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As I skim through, the first sort of insane thing that leaps out is the continuation of this kind of "non-defaultism"....

[14:27:08 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> thanks, avtar

[14:27:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> + if (that.options.model.languages) {

[14:27:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> + if (that.options.model.activeLanguages[0] === undefined) {

[14:27:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> + that.options.model.activeLanguages[0] = 0;

[14:27:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> + }

[14:27:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> + }

[14:27:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I guess this isn't the kind of comment you're interested in right now

[14:28:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Nor the more general comment that it's puzzling that this (language component) exists at all, and why it is so large - surely it is an example of something more generic and reusable

[14:28:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But "it requires no ghost to come from the grave to tell us this"

[14:29:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I don't see anything particularly insane that it seems happened as a result of this commit

[14:29:27 CST(-0600)] <avtar> i'll need to set you both up with sudo access depending on what files you need to edit

[14:30:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A lot of the bulk seems to be in the very wasteful "setUpKeyboardA11y" function

[14:30:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> All of this stuff will be chiselled away slowly

[14:30:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I believe it will all fall out into two things

[14:31:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a menu and the toggle button

[14:31:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - is it ok to start using the demo branch for my integration work now?

[14:31:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What is its condition now

[14:32:11 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: we've been working in other branches and merging them in

[14:32:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm in the process now of moving to AC's version of the toggleButton--you reviewed it previously, right Bosmon?

[14:32:34 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: the demo branch is stable

[14:32:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I gave it one pass, yes

[14:32:55 CST(-0600)] <michelled> we've been treating it as a kind of master

[14:33:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - cool - I will get going then

[14:33:24 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: one thing I noticed is a typo in the language pull down

[14:33:34 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> michelled, alexn1, colinclark, I pushed another fix for the transcript event queuing-up issue. The solution is to apply a 100ms time delay to ignore the intervalChange that fired in such a short time slot. The UI result is, when you quickly slide thru the scrubber and stay at one spot more than 100ms, the transcript responds to the action. So, you may still see the transcript area scrolling up and down but not as frequent as it's used to be.

[14:33:34 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Engliah

[14:33:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - sorry, that was semi-deliberate (smile)

[14:33:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'll clear it in the next commit

[14:34:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I just put it there so I could ensure the menu was actually being rendered : P

[14:34:03 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: deliberate?

[14:34:07 CST(-0600)] <michelled> oh (smile)

[14:34:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm surprised you didn't write ENGLISSSSSHH

[14:34:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> hahahaha

[14:34:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I was in a hurry : P

[14:35:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled, cindyli... one thing I noticed yesterday was that the volume control was impossible to use

[14:35:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I assume this is well known

[14:35:50 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: if you click the volume button, the slider will stay on the screen

[14:36:12 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: here's the revised plan we are working off: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Floe+Demo+Plan

[14:36:21 CST(-0600)] <michelled> things in red are the top priorities

[14:37:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks

[14:37:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: It's on my list of todos

[14:37:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> shortly after making the other buttons suck less

[14:37:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I see I have a top priority task "change pull down to 'Learner Options'"

[14:37:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I assume that just means changing the text on the tab?

[14:37:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes

[14:38:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> exciting stuff

[14:42:00 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark, cindyli, Bosmon: I just pushed alexn1's branch with an improvement on full screen. We've removed the very broken behaviour we used to have and now we use the full screen API if it exists.

[14:42:10 CST(-0600)] <michelled> this means we shouldn't demo on IE

[14:42:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - great

[14:42:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled, colinclark - I'm assuming that this comment is one of yours // TODO: There is repetition here when creating the video players - can it be refactored?

[14:42:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In Mammals.js

[14:42:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hmm

[14:42:37 CST(-0600)] <michelled> mine

[14:42:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Did you have any particular directions in mind?

[14:42:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> michelled: Not even IE9?

[14:42:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm sure JT won't demo in IE

[14:42:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can guarantee it

[14:43:06 CST(-0600)] <michelled> colinclark: no, we weren't able to find a full screen API for IE

[14:43:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok

[14:43:35 CST(-0600)] <michelled> full screen shouldn't really be demoed anyway - it's not doing what we actually want

[14:43:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Failing on IE is an increasingly acceptable option (smile) Given the wide range of highly desirable technologies that won't work on it, the public are abandoning it in droves

[14:43:50 CST(-0600)] <michelled> but at least now if it's clicked it doesn't look terribly broken

[14:44:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually I'm not sure that the defaults in Mammals.js are even correct....

[14:44:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Oh, how confusing

[14:44:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I thought we went away from using arrays in these structures

[14:45:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> wasn't the whole uber branch about going to arrays?

[14:45:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think that was the whole point of the model refactoring

[14:45:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> !!!

[14:45:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I thought the whole uber branch was about going away from arrays...

[14:45:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark>

!¡ANA¡!

[14:46:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ah yes... I often get confused about these binary decisions (smile)

[14:46:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Now I remember

[14:47:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - about the repetition comment

[14:47:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I see that the model defaults are repeated in each block, which presumably can be removed easily

[14:47:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Can you see some other targets for trimming?

[14:48:34 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Bosmon: one thought was to put the video sources into the markup instead. it might be a more natural place for it anyway

[14:48:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> michelled - how might that look?

[14:49:21 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it would look more like the markup that we end up rendering.

[14:50:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But how would we fit the video sources into the markup? As some kind of link target attributes?

[14:53:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: The <video> element has a <source> tag

[14:54:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The very earliest prototype of the Video Player attempted to modelize this...

[14:54:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since I wanted, at the time, to treat HTML5 sources as well as "degraded" sources similarly

[14:54:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Oh yes, I remember this now... let me find the spec again...

[14:54:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it never really actually played out that way, and we're finding that we may not be far from a world where we don't really ever "degrade" to, say a YouTube player

[14:55:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - what is driving that lack of need for degradation?

[14:55:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Since eventually we'll take a look at using MediaElement.js as a polyfill for non HTML5 browsers

[14:55:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> aha

[14:55:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Despite our moral hatred of all polyfills? : P

[14:55:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol

[14:55:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess my dictate for polyfills was never moral

[14:55:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but rather entirely pragmatic

[14:55:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "Never" say "never", as a wise chap once remarked recently : P

[14:56:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In principle, a polyfill is a wonderful thing

[14:56:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although his version may have had a few fewer scare quotes

[14:56:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in practice, everyone just whips them up in a rush

[14:56:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Right

[14:56:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Says the guy who wrote a sort of terrible DataView polyfill (tongue)

[14:56:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A polyfill should be that thing designed with yet far more scrupulous care than normal code

[14:56:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And preferably, should never be used at all....

[14:57:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For example, those shysters who will stick "forEach" methods into Array.prototype....

[14:57:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)

[14:58:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But still, what do you think about the idea of accepting "false markup" encoding source URLs?

[14:59:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: false markup?

[15:00:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think that was michelled's suggestion

[15:00:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Markup that would not be acted upon by the browser

[15:00:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ah, like...

[15:00:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> say...

[15:01:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a <source> tag with an H.264 URL in it

[15:01:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in Firefox?

[15:01:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is that what you mean by "false?"

[15:01:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or were you thinking of something more extreme

[15:01:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> like a <source> tag which represented a YouTube video?

[15:01:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, that is what I meant

[15:01:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> No, not more extreme

[15:01:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> At least, I think that is what michelled meant

[15:02:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yeah, that's really the way the <video> tag is supposed to work

[15:02:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you specify all the possible sources

[15:02:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and the browser picks its preferred source

[15:02:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm assuming that, for example, Firefox would choose a WebM video over a Theora one if it encountered both

[15:02:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess we're really saying that this is an issue between the user and the browser, not us

[15:03:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Captions and transcripts we can equally express using the <track> element, though we need to be ready for the cases where browsers suddenly start supporting it

[15:07:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Do you know off the top of your head why we chose to expose a "setTabindex()" method to the toggle button?

[15:07:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I can't think of a good reason for that

[15:07:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> My guess is that it was in order to support setting the tab index of individual buttons in the controller

[15:07:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I would like to say "it wasn't done on my watch" : P

[15:07:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes

[15:07:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which we know a widget can't do safely

[15:07:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I saw a branch that worked that way

[15:07:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm going to toss it

[15:08:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Which sparked a lot of discussion that day

[15:08:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Cool

[15:08:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's the sort of method we've never had on a component

[15:08:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a

[15:08:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and, as you say, we verified that it is for a good reason during that discussion

[15:09:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yura: Off the top of your head, what is the URL to Fluid's fork of JSLint?

[15:09:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I've been using the real one for so long with Flocking

[15:09:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and coding so little for Fluid (sad)

[15:09:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You mean, the running version of it on the web?

[15:09:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes

[15:10:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> There is my one at http://ponder.org.uk/fluid/fulljslint.html

[15:10:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And the KINGG always remembers where our hosted one is, but I don't : P

[15:10:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Isn't there an official one?

[15:10:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I thought our newest committer might know

[15:10:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> (smile)

[15:10:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I doubt the IRC alerts are sufficiently clever to figure that one out : P

[15:11:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Embarrassingly, I had an app tab pinned in my browser for i t(sad)

[15:11:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://swarm.fluidproject.org/jslint/

[15:16:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so, Bosmon, another question if you have a sec

[15:16:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm merging stuff from Anastasia's branches by hand

[15:16:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> bit by bit

[15:16:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - sure

[15:16:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I realize that this will cut off any real history

[15:17:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you think it's sufficient to mention in my commit logs where these changes are coming from?

[15:17:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Or is there a more sensible way to approach this?

[15:17:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think the reference is fine

[15:17:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> git is heroic, but sometimes you can't always expect to preserve all history

[15:18:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Especially when files are split and merged

[15:19:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And in this case, I'm really selecting things bit by bit

[15:20:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> refactoring here and there

[15:20:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> cindyli - I see global typos in the transcripts component

[15:20:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then committing

[15:20:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "langaugeDropdown"

[15:20:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Is this known?

[15:21:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Could you have a quick look at this one? https://github.com/colinbdclark/videoPlayer/commit/e0f7538eadf9aae8e9326b446e39b95f228e19d6

[15:21:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm thinking I should probably push to demo soon

[15:22:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We don't have to review code going into demo, but I do prefer to have someone at least take a quick look

[15:22:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Here we have the latest version of anastasiac's ToggleButton component

[15:22:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - looks cool to me

[15:22:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and I've moved it directly into the fluid namespace, since I think it is probably a useful component

[15:22:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The only thing lingering here that is bothering me is the onPress event

[15:22:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which is still preventable and still passes a DOM event as its only argument

[15:23:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I will leave that for now, I think

[15:23:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok

[15:23:15 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> right. thanks, Bosmon. fixing

[15:24:53 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> fixed and pushed

[15:25:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks, cindyli

[15:26:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> cindyli, alexn1... I see some odd material in the main VideoPlayer.js file

[15:26:21 CST(-0600)]

<Bosmon> Around line 234, there is a block of 3, like onTranscriptShow: "

Unknown macro: {videoPlayer}

.fullscreen",

[15:26:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ordinarily this would be an admirable use of "direct event relay"

[15:26:30 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> that was me

[15:26:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I'm wondering why there is a direct linkage between these events and moving to fullscreen mode?

[15:26:45 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> what is "direct event relay"

[15:26:54 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> oh, as it is now?

[15:26:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is what you have written now (smile)

[15:26:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes

[15:27:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As it is written, on receiving any of these 3 events, it will call to the fullscreen() method

[15:27:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But why?

[15:27:26 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And why isn't this making a serious problem already?

[15:28:41 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> because fullscreen() method is the only one that re-calculates and re-sizes various of video player containers

[15:29:06 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> needs a proper separate method

[15:29:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> cindyli - ok, I see

[15:29:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Given we don't have time to look in to this before the demo, this at least needs a huge implementation comment

[15:30:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I see there is a big "This must be fixed" comment in the centre, but it is quite stale and not very clear about what needs to be fixed (smile)

[15:31:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon, cindyli, alexn1: I just pushed up some button-related changes to the demo branch. Nothing major, but you may want to update nonetheless

[15:32:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I believe alexn1 has been working on this with michelled today

[15:32:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the problem will fullscreen() containing various useful sideffects

[15:32:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> side effects

[15:32:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - cool, thanks