fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-03-30

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Last updated: Mar 30, 2012Version comment
11 min read

[10:00:45 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> anastasiac, michelled, yura and i are thinking to branch off the UIO integration branch for the video player integration since we also need infusion lib and UIO. what do you think?

[10:00:55 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> where's the latest branch for UIO integration?

[10:01:31 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> btw, i'm talking about oer commons authoring tool

[10:01:42 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, the latest UIO integration branch would be the FLOE-1 branch in my github (at least, until Michelle merges it into authoring-a11y). Not sure what michelled things about you working off that branch, though...

[10:02:08 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> great. thanks, anastasiac, i will check in with michelled later

[10:02:48 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli1: yes, use anastasiac's branch

[10:02:59 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> cool. thanks, michelled

[10:03:12 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> it will go into the a11y branch soon - as soon as anastasiac gets the last few tweaks done

[10:08:57 CDT(-0500)] <yura> michelled: do we use trunk of vp?

[10:10:12 CDT(-0500)] <yura> anastasiac: maybe you know ? ^

[10:11:10 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yura: no - use demo

[10:11:20 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yura: you might want to use Bosmon's branch instead though

[10:11:26 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> it will probably go into demo soon

[10:11:40 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> but it hasn't been tested so use what you feel comfortable with

[10:11:43 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yura: ^

[10:13:05 CDT(-0500)] <yura> michelled: Bosmon's master or demo-integration-test

[10:13:05 CDT(-0500)] <yura> ?

[10:15:01 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> demo-integration-test

[10:15:18 CDT(-0500)] <yura> ok

[10:16:00 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yura: that's the one he did the pull request with, right?

[10:17:07 CDT(-0500)] <yura> ya

[11:32:16 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jvass: are you doing James-class things now or are you free?

[12:24:51 CDT(-0500)] <jvass> jessm: I was in James' class, I'm free now though (smile)

[12:25:37 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jvass: no worries

[12:25:41 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i think we're all going to touch base soon

[12:26:23 CDT(-0500)] <jvass> okay

[12:28:04 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> hello

[12:28:07 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> is Jon Hung dere?

[12:29:56 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> is Justin Obara dere?

[12:30:19 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anuja: unfortunately neither is right now

[12:30:27 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i think jon will be back soon

[12:30:46 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> actually i wanted to discuss the project HTML5 Image Editor

[12:31:06 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anuja: yep, they're the ones to talk to

[12:31:06 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> can you please tell me if any other student is working on this project?

[12:33:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anuja: if you can hang around for a few minutes i'm sure one of them will be able to tell you

[12:33:26 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> sure thankyou (smile)

[12:34:46 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> is there any mailing list for prospective students?

[12:40:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anuja: jhung is back, he'll be able to help you

[12:43:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anuja, is there something I can help with?

[12:46:04 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> sorry for delay

[12:46:06 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> hii

[12:46:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hi

[12:46:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anuja: hello

[12:46:26 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> I went through http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2011/pulkit110/17001

[12:46:35 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> the same project that I am interested in

[12:46:50 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> it was also selected last year as well

[12:47:02 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> I was hoping if you could tell me

[12:47:07 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> if it was completed

[12:47:09 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> ?

[12:47:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Anuja, they are different projects but on a similar theme.

[12:48:03 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> can you point me to the person who implemented this project

[12:48:04 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> This year's project is like an extension from last year's, but can stand on its own. There are different features and requirements.

[12:48:05 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> or the code

[12:48:19 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> so that I can get some taste

[12:48:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> pulkit is in this channel on occasion.

[12:49:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Anuja, you can send me your question for him and I will forward it.

[12:51:04 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> sure thanks (smile)

[12:51:11 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> no problem.

[12:51:23 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> just to be clear this project involves only keyboard and mouse

[12:51:34 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> or touch screen aswell?

[12:51:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anuja, that would be interesting if touch screens were designed for as well.

[12:52:30 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> so our main priority will be keyboard and mouse

[12:52:40 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> and then I will extend it to touch screen

[12:52:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> That sounds like a wise course of action anuja.

[12:53:22 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> I am not familiar with fluid infusion

[12:53:52 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> please point me to the right resource to get me started

[12:53:55 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> for my proposal

[12:54:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anuja, that is okay not to know infusion now, but if selected for the project it is expected that you use Fluid Infusion to develop.

[12:55:21 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> but I was hoping to include the design part in the proposal

[12:55:36 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> *nitial design

[12:55:42 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> that may need knowledge of infusion

[12:55:56 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> what exactly you expect

[12:56:00 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> in the proposal

[12:56:02 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> ?

[12:56:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Hi anuja, you can start here: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Infusion+Documentation

[12:57:26 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> thanku (smile)

[12:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I hope that will give you what you need. If not there are experienced Infusion users here in this channel.

[12:58:16 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> should I include mockups or wireframe in the propoal

[12:58:17 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> ?

[12:58:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anuja: you can also see some demos http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/

[12:58:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> these are built daily

[12:58:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> If you think it will help support your proposal, then include those.

[12:59:29 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> can you also give me link to the source of project http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2011/pulkit110/17001

[12:59:36 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> it seems very similar

[13:00:15 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> so I will study it and will try to prepare a better and improved version

[13:02:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anuja: you can find the code here https://github.com/pulkit110/ImageEditor

[13:04:27 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> I will send you an initial draft asap with my queries (smile)

[13:04:33 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> thankyou all

[13:05:22 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> just out of curiousity

[13:05:29 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> is there any other student as well

[13:05:34 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> working on this project

[13:05:34 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> ?

[13:07:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> We are accepting proposals on the project, so there is no official student working on it yet anuja. There have been a number of applications, so make sure you communicate your ideas well in your proposal.

[13:09:03 CDT(-0500)] <anuja> okk..

[15:41:50 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Hello, I'm Amanda. I'm spying on you guys for GSoC. (smile)

[16:08:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> asteig: Hey, nice to meet you

[16:08:43 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> (big grin)

[16:08:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Are you interested in a particular GSoC project?

[16:09:42 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I'm looking at Fluid right now. Kind of in alignment with what I do already.

[16:09:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, cool

[16:10:00 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Which project are you involved in, if you don't mind me asking?

[16:10:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Let me know if I can answer any questions

[16:10:15 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Sure! Just getting familiar with the code right now on github. (smile)

[16:10:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Me personally? I have a little project I proposed...

[16:10:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Inclusive Musical Instruments on the Web

[16:10:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Mostly I just try to help out with the other projects

[16:10:45 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I saw that! Looks pretty cool.

[16:11:13 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I know nothing about instruments or music though. Haha

[16:11:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[16:13:47 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> I'm trying to find where I saw that through my browsing but can't seem to locate it again. :-p

[16:14:40 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Ha, nevermind. (smile)

[16:15:33 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Is a background in music required for your project? From a user interface perspective the project seems really cool.

[17:09:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> asteig: Sorry, I missed your message earlier.

[17:09:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't think a background in music is necessarily necessary (smile)

[17:09:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Just creativity and a willingness to learn

[17:10:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I have to run, but I hope you have a great weekend and I'll be around next week to chat if you have more questions

[17:10:24 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Alright, thanks for answering my questions today and the warm welcome. (smile)

[17:10:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Next week you'll probably find a lot more people who can help answer questions, too

[17:10:50 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Sounds good. See you next week. (smile)

[17:10:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> about all the other projects--they're all really interesting

[17:10:55 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Yes!

[17:11:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled is a good one to talk to (smile)

[17:11:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> see you!

[18:11:42 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Bosmon - are you afk?

[18:11:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi there travis_84_

[18:12:27 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Hey, I had a question for you

[18:12:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What's the MADD HAPPS (smile)

[18:13:54 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Have been so lucky as to catch the real Basman from the project we discussed wed.?

[18:14:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, how many of us do you believe there are? : P

[18:14:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> "Don't you here, I come in sixpacks" : P

[18:15:20 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> hah, toute (sp?)

[18:16:01 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> that's spelt wrong

[18:16:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What can I do for you?

[18:16:16 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> but anyway, that is awesome

[18:16:53 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> I have been doing a lot of research on the area

[18:17:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's great

[18:17:27 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> and the prospect seems within reach

[18:17:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, parts of it are : P

[18:17:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We may need to push the parts which rely on 120 years work beyond the horizon of the GSoC project : P

[18:18:39 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> true

[18:20:05 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> I have been reading up on Sphinx alittle and thinking of its integration into something like this

[18:20:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah, interesting

[18:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Shame it is in Java...

[18:20:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It may be better to try to tie into some platform facilities for this

[18:21:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> If there are any : P

[18:21:24 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> such as?

[18:21:33 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> On the mobile platforms, there always are

[18:21:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And you can depend that they are pretty good

[18:21:59 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Like android

[18:22:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since it is quite a point of pride for Google to be able to outdo Apple in speech recognition

[18:22:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, exactly

[18:22:47 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Android is in java as far as i know

[18:22:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, it is not "real Java" : P

[18:23:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It uses the Java language but not the JVM

[18:23:56 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> ahh

[18:24:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And the product should probably be targeted at one or more mobile OS in any case, since that is precisely where people won't have access to traditional development affordances...

[18:24:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Like.... a keyboard : P

[18:24:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So an interesting area to look at might be the status of the various efforts to expose the "Platform speech API" to HTML

[18:25:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> There may be some very early parts of the HTML5 spec, or failing that, you could certainly do it with something like "Phonegap"

[18:26:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The authors of Sphinx seem to have very properly given up... doesn't seem like there has been a release in more than a year

[18:26:51 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> phonegap...ok

[18:27:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> They could never dream of throwing the kind of resources that Google have at this problem : P

[18:28:04 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> it is tough too because audio models for speech recognition has been tough to find in the OSP world till recently

[18:28:23 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Still, an open source speech processing engine would be very worthwhile in the long term... but it would most likely be better written in a wacky combination of JS and WebGL (smile)

[18:29:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You could certainly experiment with trying to compile Sphinx for Android-Java, but I suspect it will be a pretty rocky road

[18:29:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As well as being a method that would only work on one platform...

[18:29:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> On iOS, all your bets would be off

[18:30:14 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Do you think that a mobile device has the power to handle SR along with all that will be needed to convert to program code?

[18:30:28 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> maybe developing as a service?

[18:30:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Absolutely it does.. Apple's "Siri" works just fine already

[18:30:47 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> to access through the web?

[18:30:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I wouldn't underestimate the horsepower there is on mobiles even today, let alone what there will be by next summer : P

[18:31:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Remember that today's devices already have fully fledged GPUs

[18:31:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which its possible to offload a huge amount of the legwork for SR if you know how to prod the properly

[18:31:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> prod it

[18:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> yes, there should be some kind of "cloud aspect"... but probably most usefully just to facilitate collaboration

[18:32:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You certainly want the system to keep working when it is offline

[18:32:29 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Especially given the "writing code in a crowded underground train" use case : P

[18:33:36 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> voice distinction might be tough in a train (tongue)

[18:33:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, and probably disturbing for the other passengers...

[18:34:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> A big other vehicle for input will be touch...

[18:34:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Like the Ramanist system I talked about before, which lets you run a finger over the surface and give little "bumps" when you reach significant points

[18:34:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But I agree that speech is probably the most appropriate model to explore first for this project

[18:35:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But whatever architecture you come up with should be at least somewhat appropriate for touch as well as speech.... or indeed anything else : P

[18:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess one would mostly have to rely on speech output from the device as one of the big means of feedback

[18:37:25 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> Ya if i had a program that I talked to, I wouldnt think of touching it too

[18:37:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Personally I hate the idea of talking to things : P

[18:37:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But then I try to even have a keyboard on my phone...

[18:39:18 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> ahh ya I love thought of talking to it and having it program lol

[18:39:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think that is what Clayton is most interested in too

[18:40:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> (speech input mode)

[18:42:26 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> hmm Google says WAMI is an OS project for SR in javascript

[18:42:46 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> but it uses flash? yuk

[18:42:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Pretend you never heard of it (smile)

[18:44:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> https://wiki.mozilla.org/HTML5_Speech_API - this is where the money will be, in time...

[18:44:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In the meantime, you may have to mock up something yourself using something like PhoneGap

[18:44:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it might be a very useful project outcome if you made some effort to conform the API you make to the upcoming HTML5 standard

[18:45:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Lots of people would probably pick up whatever integration you made

[18:45:43 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> that is my plan

[18:45:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This guy has a crazy approach for output - https://github.com/kripken/speak.js

[18:45:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it is probably workable

[18:46:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think it would stress the CPU in a mobile device too much though

[18:47:09 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> I plan to reduce the hiorrid <div> over use of most wysiwyg's by using html 5 tags

[18:47:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, here it is.... a couple of Google guys - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Feb/att-0020/api-draft.html

[18:49:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Wow

[18:49:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/XGR-htmlspeech-20111206/

[18:49:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Pretty well worked-out, for something which has no implementation (smile)

[18:51:50 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> wow ya that last one will be vital

[18:53:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://simonmacdonald.blogspot.com/2011/05/text-to-speech-plugin-for-phonegap.html

[18:54:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This guy has a bit of code that you may be able to springboard off

[18:55:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Pretty good!

[18:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> it looks quite active

[18:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> https://github.com/phonegap/phonegap-plugins/tree/master/Android/TTS

[18:55:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Here is its current house

[18:56:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And there's a vestigial kind of speech recogniser too

[18:56:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> https://github.com/phonegap/phonegap-plugins/tree/master/Android/SpeechRecognizer

[19:05:34 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> alright, thanks for the added resources and direction. Here I was headed down the Java path...

[19:07:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's ok .... it's a path which we all loved once : P

[19:07:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Back in the 90s, when Java was still cool....

[19:08:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And you will still get to write a little Java (smile)

[19:08:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> At least... you will write a couple of files with a .java extension (smile)

[19:08:40 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> we'll see

[19:09:08 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> I'd rather use js so I don't have to compile all the time

[19:11:01 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84_> thanks again for the feedback and have a good evening

[19:23:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thanks for popping by, travis_84_

[19:24:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Great to talk to you as usual

[19:24:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Don't hesitate to appear again here or on the mailing lists if you have any other questions or ideas