fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-09-15

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Sept 15, 2009Version comment
8 min read

[07:18:25 EDT(-0400)] * heidi (n=thesumme@bas5-oshawa95-1176457717.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[08:25:06 EDT(-0400)] * laurel (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[08:57:05 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@128.104.17.46) has joined #fluid-work
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[10:34:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: ping
[10:39:26 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: pong
[10:39:40 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> can we skype for a minute?
[10:40:05 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> i don't have a headset with me at robarts, phone call?
[10:40:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> sure – give me your number
[10:41:07 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> 416-946-5626
[10:42:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> number isn't in service
[10:42:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> oh well
[10:42:44 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> want to postpone and chat later? i can get a mic at lunch
[10:49:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jamon - you can borrow a headset if you want
[10:49:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> there's a few over here
[11:11:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> michelled: doh, next time – i think he and i have just gotten things squared away
[11:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> but that phone number isn't live
[11:12:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's probably not supposed to be. We consolidated our phone numbers here
[11:12:34 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> actually i clarified the phone number
[11:12:51 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> the phone has the wrong number written on it.
[11:13:46 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> but I gave him the what I think is the right number - which I will probably write on the phone when I get the chance.
[11:13:52 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> once i've tested it.
[12:01:31 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@209.117.68.2) has joined #fluid-work
[12:02:44 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> have a form with multiple submit buttons. In the onsubmit handler for the form is there a way to determine which button was clicked?
[12:02:49 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> (using jQuery)
[12:26:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think when you use multiple submit buttons they submit themselves as parameters?
[12:33:01 EDT(-0400)] * jgarciavila (n=quassel@smtp.opentrends.net) has joined #fluid-work
[12:40:02 EDT(-0400)] <jgarciavila> michelle?
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[14:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Crockford is teaching that-ism to the whole room!
[14:34:42 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> whoo hoo!
[14:34:47 EDT(-0400)] * mackrauss (n=mackraus@142.150.154.196) has joined #fluid-work
[15:02:25 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@209.117.68.2) has joined #fluid-work
[15:02:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I chatted briefly with Crockford about the potential performance issues of Infusion's use of that-ism.
[15:03:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There was always the concern in the back of our mind that having a new copy of all methods be created with every new object instance would cause memory and performance bloat.
[15:03:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> His sense was that unless we're creating thousands of individual instances of a particular object, it's not going to be a factor.
[15:04:20 EDT(-0400)] * laurel (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[15:04:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And when asked about whether we'd be prevented from the benefits of V8's "shadow class" techniques for optimization, he also thought there would be no issues.
[15:05:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And in fact he argued that lexically scoped variables are potentially more optimizable than those defined prototypally, because you'd have less "prototype chain climbing" to do to resolve a particular reference to a method.
[15:08:16 EDT(-0400)] * mackrauss (n=mackraus@142.150.154.196) has joined #fluid-work
[15:09:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> that's great to hear
[15:25:48 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark_ (n=colin@209.117.69.2) has joined #fluid-work
[15:40:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> fj4000: fire away
[15:40:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> (i'm short on batteries so i may disappear suddenly)
[15:41:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled: colinclark was just talking to me re: the demos cleanup
[15:41:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> So the situation as fj4000 described it to me:
[15:41:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark_, fj4000: I'm concerned about shipping 1.2 with things like "inlineEditOld" in the repository
[15:41:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> * the new demos are little, self-contained things
[15:42:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> * the old demos have a bunch of things in one file
[15:42:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark_> * to be awesome, we need separate demos for each configuration
[15:42:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Yes, we should not ship anything labelled "old"
[15:43:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Jacob was suggesting we move the old demos into standalone-demos
[15:43:15 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so, I feel like there is a bunch of clean up that needs to be done
[15:43:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> They should be renamed descriptively, if nothing else
[15:43:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But the problem we've caused ourselves for 1.2 is that we've got three different folders with the name demos
[15:43:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> would the repetition be removed?
[15:43:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> michelled, colinclark
[15:43:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ideally that would be really good
[15:43:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> we could delete the "old"
[15:44:05 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and still keep whats in "standalone"
[15:44:14 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> is there overlap?
[15:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and nothing would be lost
[15:44:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> but yes
[15:44:22 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> there is lots of overlap
[15:44:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> how so, fj4000?
[15:45:10 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> demos/.../simple/inlineEditOld.html is the original file from standalone-demos/.../quickstart-examples/inlineEdit
[15:45:18 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> so the overlap in this case
[15:45:50 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> is that the new inline edit demo inside the portal showcases the simple inline edit functionality found in the quick start examples
[15:46:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah
[15:46:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so you're saying
[15:46:16 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think we'd be causing a lot of confusion for users
[15:46:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> demos/.../simple/inlineEditOld.html === standalone-demos/.../quickstart-examples/inlineEdit
[15:46:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yes, a fair bit
[15:46:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> is that right, fj4000 ?
[15:46:53 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sort of - the demo version is only 1 bit of the quickstart-examples page
[15:47:04 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the quickstart-examples page has 3 configs
[15:47:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> right
[15:47:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the demo has 1 of 3
[15:47:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but i'm saying
[15:47:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> old === quickstart?
[15:47:21 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yup
[15:47:51 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i could throw a day at cleaning it all up, if possible
[15:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and new is a copy of 1/3 of quickstart
[15:48:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so at the moment, we've got copies of the same files? the standalone demos and and the "old" demos?
[15:48:05 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think so
[15:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> thats the way i remember it to be
[15:48:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so i guess step one is verifying that
[15:48:33 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i can do that
[15:48:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and then we can probably just toss the Old files
[15:48:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok
[15:49:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and then, as a plan for 1.3, replace all standalone and integration demos with awesome demos that have equivalent functionality
[15:49:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok, so postpone the huge cleanup for now, just get rid of anything labelled "old" if we can, right?
[15:49:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> well, can we afford a huge cleanup in time for bug parade next week?
[15:49:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I wonder if we shouldn't ship the standalone and integration demos then
[15:50:04 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> just remove them entirely?
[15:50:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: But then wouldn't we be taking away demos of real, supported stuff?
[15:50:18 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we could move them to the incubator
[15:50:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: yes, I guess we would be
[15:50:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> do you think that's a good idea?
[15:51:04 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> do you think it would be confusing to have the 3 demos areas?
[15:51:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i mean, for example, i think we didn't get a pager demo ready in time for the portal
[15:51:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think there is more loss with the confusion
[15:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so we'd suddenly have no demo for pager?
[15:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and one of the demo areas is a copy of part of the others?
[15:51:23 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> than with moving things to incubator
[15:51:45 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think we have Pager
[15:51:47 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> in the portal
[15:51:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it seems to me the real solution is clear now
[15:51:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> get awesome demos ready in time for 1.2
[15:52:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> in the meantime, we need to come up with a stopgap
[15:52:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i don't think taking out real demos is a good idea, but i'd be willing to be convinced
[15:52:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> completely agree that 3 different demos folder is confusing and evil
[15:52:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm not convinced that removing them is good either
[15:52:54 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if we could pull off an Uploader demo, we would be in a good place, I think
[15:53:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> an uploader demo is really easy
[15:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> just use the template
[15:53:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[15:53:48 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> in that case
[15:53:51 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the portal could show
[15:54:13 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> the entire reorderer family + simple inline edit + ui options + pager + uplaoder
[15:54:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so we would be missing rich text and drop down
[15:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i should double check this
[15:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> what else?
[15:55:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> drop down is in manual tests still
[15:55:16 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we'd also be missing table of contents
[15:55:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[15:55:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> step 1
[15:55:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> let's get a list of all the stuff we're missing
[15:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we'd be missing our 'integration' examples - real world use of components
[15:55:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> right
[15:55:51 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> but that's been confusing from the get go
[15:55:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> those are a bigger can of worms
[15:55:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> can't really delete them
[15:56:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but we can clearly label them, i think
[15:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> keyboard-a11y too
[15:56:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and renderer
[15:56:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> oh, and fss too
[15:57:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok, not I totally think it's a bad idea to delete them (my bad idea)
[15:57:09 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> renderer and fss both point to different things now in the portal
[15:57:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> now
[15:57:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so this is fascinating
[15:57:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> because in many cases, we've got good tutorials that would work
[15:57:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so, for example, our keyboard-a11y demos suck
[15:57:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but jacob's tutorial is quite good
[15:57:56 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> (albeit broken)
[15:58:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> broken?
[15:58:19 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i would like to take another pass.....its been sooooo long since i looked at it
[15:58:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we looked at it last release!
[15:58:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> how is it broken, fj4000?
[15:58:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i didnt look at it for a long time
[15:58:48 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> maybe everyone else did
[15:58:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> dude
[15:58:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> you and i sat down and paired on it
[15:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> and its been updated since i last saw it
[15:59:07 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> that was last release?
[15:59:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes
[15:59:12 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> feels like months ago
[15:59:26 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 goes back in time
[15:59:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> how's it broken?
[15:59:56 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i spoke too soon, colinclark
[16:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i think it's missing a link to the delegate plugin we depend on as of 1.1
[16:00:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but other than that, i used it as the basis for my presentations this weekend and it worked great (smile)
[16:00:51 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 gets needs serious caffeine
[16:09:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> fj4000: we should continue this when colinclark is back - I'm sure he's pretty busy this week. But I guess you can start by getting rid of the 'old' files if they are identical.
[16:12:14 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok
[16:12:17 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> will do
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[16:26:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled, fj4000, sorry my batteries died
[16:26:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> did we get anywhere with a plan for the demos?
[16:26:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> np colinclark
[16:27:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> no, we said we'd pick up the conversation when you had time
[16:27:23 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> right now fj4000 is cleaning up repeated files because that's a clear thing we must do
[16:28:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> are you planning on coming to standup? I assume you're in a session right now
[16:28:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> oh, i'm actually not
[16:29:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i'll put on my headphones
[16:29:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> the network is pretty unreliable, but i'll try
[16:29:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> if you're lucky, you can catch a glimpse of crock when i turn on my video (tongue)
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