fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-09-02

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Last updated: Sept 02, 2009Version comment
8 min read

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[14:38:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, for the screencasts, are we going to be standardizing on window size?
[14:38:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hmm, good question
[14:38:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess we probably should. Any recommendations?
[14:39:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the delivery medium will be the website? embedded in a web page?
[14:39:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, it's going to be a video embedded in a Web page.
[14:39:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Using HTML 5, no less. (smile)
[14:39:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if it's intended to basically consume the web page, then typical page guidelines, with room for header/footer...
[14:39:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> max 800x600?
[14:40:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Are you around?
[14:40:04 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> maybe keep it to 640x480?
[14:40:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess we're all using HD aspect ratio displays these days
[14:40:23 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac throws a brick at fj4000
[14:40:32 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac a foam brick
[14:40:39 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 smoothes over the big bump
[14:41:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ouch
[14:41:44 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if your using an HD 16:9 aspect ratio, yrou going to be squished for content
[14:42:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Anyone know of some good examples of developer-y screen casts?
[14:42:08 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> hey - I have an old iBook at home - not HD aspect ratio!
[14:42:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Got ideas/recommendations for these screen casts?
[14:42:17 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> http://www.slideshare.net/ has a nice template
[14:42:27 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark see ^^
[14:42:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I click the browse link and it throws an error. (tongue)
[14:43:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ah, the first video I get is from Stephen Downes!
[14:43:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How cool.
[14:43:29 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> exact size coming up....
[14:43:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so these screencasts are much smaller
[14:43:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> 520x 410px
[14:43:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: So you're thinking of a smallish thing that can be zoomed to full screen, maybe?
[14:44:00 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> around that
[14:44:07 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> there is some excess (tongue)
[14:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark - yup
[14:44:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Do you want to venture a recommendation for video size?
[14:45:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> for video? Prob. even smaller.....
[14:45:31 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i wonder what youtube's optimal settings call for.....
[14:45:35 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, we do want people to be able to see what we're showing...
[14:45:37 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 runs off
[14:45:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if you're showing the UI Options dialog, it'd help to be able to see the text..
[14:46:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok, so youtube recommends 320x 240 when not doing HD
[14:46:45 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> 30 fps max
[14:47:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I wonder if 320 x 240 is sufficient for an awesome screencast, though?
[14:47:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Youtube recommends: Resolution: 640x360 (16:9) or 480x360 (4:3) recommended
[14:47:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> anastasiac says their higher
[14:47:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> frame rate can certainly be lower for something like this, I imagine
[14:47:34 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> 480 x 360 is really nice
[14:47:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> cool
[14:47:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> should we do 16:9 so it will also look awesome on an iphone?
[14:48:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> in the end
[14:48:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess iPhone isn't even 16:9 anyway
[14:48:35 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> when looking on an iphone, your going to be cropped
[14:48:41 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> exactly
[14:48:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[14:48:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yeah, and some of us have older computers, you know...
[14:49:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so 480x360?
[14:49:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I'm sure your computer is perfectly capable of showing 640 x 360 movies (tongue)
[14:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Otherwise it really is old!
[14:49:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Like 1980s old!
[14:49:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> (smile)
[14:49:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So 480x360?
[14:49:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it's about 4 or 5 years old (don't remember)
[14:49:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> if you use a very efficient codec, you could pull off something that huge
[14:49:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but I found out that Snow Leopard won't work on it!
[14:50:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We'll do H.264 and Theora
[14:50:05 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> but anything less, and it might stutter
[14:50:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it's not Intel (sad)
[14:50:13 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> oh
[14:50:43 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> hi anastasiac do you have a minute, i have a question about collection space?
[14:50:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000, anastasiac: 480x360, ala YouTube, then?
[14:50:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yura1, shoot
[14:50:55 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> why not just use embedded you tube vids?
[14:50:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura1: wait, one sec
[14:51:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Because we want to show an Infused, accessible experience.
[14:51:18 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ah
[14:51:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Whereas YouTube + Flash isn't awesome.
[14:51:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> flash = nope ?
[14:51:29 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i see
[14:51:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> More like Flash = blah, rather than an outright "nope"
[14:51:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (wink)
[14:52:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, is 480x360 coolish? Do we figure text will be awesomely readable?
[14:52:09 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> with non html5 enabled browsers, would the QT player pop up?
[14:52:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: yep
[14:52:22 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> its a good size
[14:52:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Let's try a quick test at that resolution, and see how it looks
[14:52:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Seem reasonable?
[14:52:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, seems reasonable to me
[14:52:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: I can answer your keyboard a11y question in just a sec here.
[14:52:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, awesome
[14:53:17 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[14:53:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura1, fire away to anastasiac. Sorry to intrude. (smile)
[14:53:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o was asking privately if there's a way to simulate keyboard events for writing unit tests that test keyboard navigation.
[14:54:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: I'm gonna check what we did in Uploader (which might be nothing)
[14:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But I know there are fairly substantial unit tests for the keyboard-a11y plugin itself.
[14:54:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So it should be quite feasible.
[14:55:04 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: as an example I was looking into find-edit/spec/spec-procedures.json , where modelToResourceMap has the path to a json with data
[14:55:30 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: how would I point to data if it's just a object in my case?
[14:56:05 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: thanks... i did try using the simulateKeyDown function from the keyboard-a11y-tests but didn't have much success
[14:56:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ah, ok, yura1, this is actually just coincidental naming confusion
[14:56:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: I did something fairly simple for Uploader. Take a look at line 154 of FileQueueViewTests.js.
[14:57:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In short, I was just using the programmatic API to ensure that it was working correctly, assuming that the keyboard-a11y unit tests will cover the underlying event handlers, etc.
[14:57:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the string in the modelToResourceMap is an URL
[14:57:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> or at least, part of an URL
[14:58:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the DataContext uses that string to build the URL that the ajax request goes to, in this case something like "http://collectionsace.org/find-edit/procedure-records
[14:58:20 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the servlet at that URL returns JSON in its response
[14:58:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but your ajax request could request anything, so long as the you and the server agree on the protocols
[14:59:03 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: I see, yep, i think it solves my case (smile)
[14:59:14 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: thanks
[14:59:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> np - keep the questions coming!
[14:59:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: I don't see any tests even in for the keyboard-a11y plugin that actually test the arrow keys, which suggests that event simulation doesn't quite work for these keys. But again, you probably don't need to test at that level.
[15:00:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If you know the keyboard-a11y code is working, think about what's specific to your application/component to test, and ensure that it is working.
[15:00:09 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: okay... thanks... how about activating via keyboard
[15:00:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: Activating is no problem
[15:00:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Lines 423 and 434 in keyboard-a11y-tests.js
[15:00:46 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: so I can have a complete URL specified in place ?
[15:01:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if you're using the DataContext as it is, not really
[15:01:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> The DataContext combines the text in the modelToResourceMap with its other options, the protocol and the baseurl
[15:01:48 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark:
[15:02:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if you provide the DataContext with a different urlFactory, one that just uses the text from the modelToResourceMap directly, that might work...
[15:02:20 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> or if you set the protocol and baseUrl to empty strings...
[15:02:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but that's not really the way it's supposed to be used (smile)
[15:02:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[15:02:44 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: hmm.. i tried that function, but it didn't seem to work... unless there is some other bug in my code (wink) anyways... it looks like all i need to pass in is the element and the keycode and it should simulate the press for me
[15:02:59 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: but i can specify my own protocal and baseUrl?
[15:03:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura1: The idea with the DataContext is that it represents a kind of CRUD-like interface for accessing RESTful services.
[15:03:12 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> The advantage of separating the baseurl from the portion in the modelToResourceMap is that it makes deployment on different servers much easier
[15:03:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yura1, yes: the protocol and baseUrl are options passed in the options block to...
[15:03:40 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac check which component
[15:03:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the urlFactory
[15:04:11 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> anastasiac: ok
[15:12:08 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> sorry anastasiac, one more question is it possible to specify options for the that ajax call such as data, or success
[15:13:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yura1, I'm not quite sure what you mean... currently, the data provided in the ajax call is the model (or part thereof) that the main component is working with - in your case, that would be the artifact data
[15:13:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I imagine your artifact component would decide what teh success callback would be
[15:14:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura1: I think what anastasiac means is "yes"
[15:14:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There are events for successful/failing ajax calls
[15:14:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Provided to you by the DataContext
[15:15:27 EDT(-0400)] <yura1> thanks ill look into that
[15:15:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If you need to provide arguments to the ajax call while fetching data, that'll be a bit more tricky...
[15:16:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I would have to double check the API, but I think there's a baked-in assumption that fetches generally don't require additional parameters
[15:16:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Does that sound about right?
[15:17:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, yes - the code constructs the ajax parameters for you, and currently, there's not too much ability to customize it
[15:18:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I wonder how easy that would be to extend, allowing for an argument to fetch() specifying additional URL params
[15:19:36 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, I imagine it would be pretty easy to accept an extra argument containing options that will be passed directly to the ajax call
[15:19:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I forget what the queryParameters argument is for.
[15:19:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It sounds like that's what it does, but I imagine perhaps not?
[15:19:52 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac reviews the code
[15:20:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah, it looks like fetch() never specifies a data member when calling ajax()
[15:20:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we could extend that very easily
[15:23:20 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> queryParams (iirc) is used to build the modelPath that is used to look up the url from the modelToResourceMap
[15:23:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah
[15:23:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i guess we should think about naming there
[15:23:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> memory is short
[15:23:44 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the modelPath might need data out of the model
[15:23:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, naming suggestions are highly encouraged!!!
[15:24:04 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac misses pair programming
[15:50:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, you recommended Snapz Pro for the screencasts - any thoughts on what would be used on Windows? Say, if we wanted to capture some JAWS output?
[15:51:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, good question
[15:52:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> is there a demo of camtasia that doesn't impose water marks?
[15:52:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> dunno, good question
[15:52:21 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Don't we have a copy of camtasia somewhere?
[15:52:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i guess JAWS would be fine in VMWare with Snapz Pro
[15:52:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> there's a copy of Camtasia on the testing machine beside Heidi's desk
[15:53:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes, there is
[15:53:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> with jaws on it as well
[15:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but I did forget about the virtual machine option
[15:53:44 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I was thinking about working on this at home, since I'd probably feel weird recording the script sitting here
[15:54:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but the video and audio captures could be done separately, anyway
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[16:11:26 EDT(-0400)] <heidi> my colloquy is bouncin but i can't find my name - am here if needed
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