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fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-05-07

fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-05-07

May 07, 2012

[08:21:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: want to chat after coffee walk?

[08:22:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: yes please, I was hoping we'd be able to. Still working through my backlog of e-mail, but should be done that by then.

[08:22:52 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k.

[09:24:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: did you want to chat now?

[09:24:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> sure

[09:25:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> skype justin_o?

[09:26:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: sure… just logging in now

[10:04:35 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon2, are you around?

[10:50:07 CDT(-0500)] <logiclord1> yura1 I was going through docs http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Set+up+your+environment and I was unable to find MyInfusion.js in latest source https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion/tree/infusion-1.4

[10:52:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hi logiclord1, the "Setting Up Your Environment" page seems to be missing a few details. You need to create a build of Infusion to get MyInfusion.js.

[10:52:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Good news is, it's easy.

[10:52:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> logiclord1: http://builder.fluidproject.org/

[10:53:13 CDT(-0500)] <logiclord1> thanks collinclark

[10:53:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> On this web interface, you can choose individual components, or build the whole package.

[10:54:19 CDT(-0500)] <logiclord1> I choose whole package aat the moment

[10:54:24 CDT(-0500)] <logiclord1> *at

[15:20:53 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon2, are you there?

[20:01:58 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Bosmon, when you get the chance I would like to skype with you or michelle this week. Feel free to add travis_love_84, I also posted an update on my blog.

[20:02:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Thanks, travis_84

[20:02:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Michelle will be back from tomorrow, so later in the week will work very well

[20:03:48 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Ok thanks, also how do you feel about CoffeeScript

[20:04:03 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I am loving it

[20:30:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I think it is the work of the devil

[20:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> But it is a good proof of concept about how easy it is to make a language which compiles down to JS

[20:30:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I mean, honestly.... what kind of language invented by people who think that "function" is too many keystrokes to type, and invent a JS-based language without the JSON syntax at its core : P

[20:31:55 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> ...the...disabled...: P

[20:32:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Well, the solution to that, as we know, is to get away from text-based programming entirely (smile)

[20:32:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Surely you have good range of keyboard macros in the meantime : P

[20:32:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> No need to pollute the structure of your language in the meantime....

[20:33:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Hey sgithens

[20:33:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> We were just inveighing against COFFFESCRIPT : P

[20:33:19 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> Bosmon2 DUADU

[20:33:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Or at least I was

[20:33:24 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> hahaha

[20:33:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> travis_84 says he is quite fond of it

[20:33:34 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> I like it

[20:33:36 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> it's python like

[20:33:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I've seen it

[20:33:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It's awful

[20:33:48 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I am new enough to be easily influenced

[20:33:58 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> and grow bad habits

[20:34:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I certainly wouldn't think it's worth my while to fuck up my build chain just for the pitiful benefits that COFFESCRIPT offers

[20:34:33 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> so I have yet to build what works for me

[20:34:42 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> it's not that hard to learn actually (tongue)

[20:34:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> If it offered any particularly powerful or interesting STATE-ORIENTED FEATURES it might be a different matter

[20:35:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Well, I'm sure it's easy to learn, since it is just basically JavaScript with a silly clown face painted on it

[20:35:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> But still, you need to run the transpiler every time you want to deploy anything

[20:35:13 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> i'd use it just to be able to have syntax for slicing arrays and stuff

[20:35:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It's like going back to the JAVER days

[20:35:17 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> that drives me nuts in js

[20:35:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Yes, that is fairly annoying

[20:35:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I was really wishing I could do array[-1] the other day

[20:35:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> But I just sucked it up

[20:35:43 CDT(-0500)] <sgithens> you've carried on!

[20:35:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Yes

[20:35:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I HAVE KEPT CALM AND CARRIED ON

[20:36:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> We have worse problems in this life than the syntax of JAVERSCRIPT

[20:37:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> The FINAL LANGUAGE we need to build is different enough from both JAVERSCRIPT and COFFESCRIPT that it hardly matters which one of them we use

[20:37:24 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> you should check out JLinq then for array slicing

[20:37:38 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I mention it in my post

[20:38:06 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> SQL like JSON querying

[20:38:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I'm happy enough to just refer to the array.slice documentation on MDN when I need to

[20:38:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> And we already have our own form of JSON querying as part of the RESOLVER system within Infusion....

[20:38:33 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Although I do need to rewrite it a bit...

[20:38:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> The big problem with all of these JSON querying systems is that they fail to recognise that the queries themselves need to be expressed as JSON too

[20:39:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> What's the point of liberating ourselves from writing code, only to have to write some other kind of code : P

[20:41:13 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I was saying the same thing about code navigation through speech to another person

[20:41:54 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> not sure if I want to navigate by speaking more words then necessary

[20:43:13 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I mean I am never gonna say "up three, left two divs, append blah"

[20:44:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Sure... we need a flexible vocabulary of CSS-like primitives for identifying things...

[20:44:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Of course, it will only encourage people to structure their markup better

[20:46:09 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> the new HTML5 tags make speaking and navigating easier

[20:47:09 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> you can always make specific calls to exactly what I need

[20:47:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Have you ever seen one of these coloured "time maps" that you can make of a page, to show how long an unsighted user might expect to take to navigate to a particular part of it?

[20:47:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> We can do the same, for "expected navigation distance" using whatever set of primitives we construct....

[20:47:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Creating a kind of "bidirectional criticism"

[20:48:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> We can criticise the page for failing to be properly navigable

[20:48:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> At the same time as criticising our primitives for not helping us get to the page

[20:52:45 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I can always count on Bosmon to drag me back to earth just when I think I am getting "it". (wink)

[20:53:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Well, being dragged somewhere at least

[20:53:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I'm not quite convinced it is earth : P

[20:55:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Dammit, I KNOW I have some more potatoes somewhere.....

[20:57:17 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> lol ??