fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-10-01

[08:36:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anastasiac: working through the undo and inline edit tutorials now. Very well written!
[08:55:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung, thanks!
[09:08:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: have you comitted your changes to the SVN?
[09:13:28 CDT(-0500)] <golam> anastasiac: Jan is asking to send the URI for the progress demo, do you know which link is he referring to? I am assuming it's not the svn..
[09:14:00 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, right, we were trying to figure that out yesterday when the internet went down... hang on, golam...
[09:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <golam> thanks
[09:14:53 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> golam: http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/progress/FLUID-3751/src/webapp/demos/progress/demo.html
[09:15:11 CDT(-0500)] <golam> nice
[09:15:13 CDT(-0500)] <golam> thanks
[09:15:55 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> golam, is jan going to be testing it with the screen readers?
[09:16:21 CDT(-0500)] <golam> once I check in the new changes for progress demo, it should all be there or someone needs to build in order for the changes to take effect
[09:16:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right, golam, you'll need to trigger the continuum build for the changes to take effect - do you know how to do that?
[09:17:02 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I think he is going to add the links to his presentation
[09:17:16 CDT(-0500)] <golam> no
[09:17:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, when you're ready, ping me, and i'll come over and show you how
[09:17:37 CDT(-0500)] <golam> ok thanks
[09:36:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung, about your inlineEdit demo files...
[09:36:54 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I think the goal is for Jan to be able to run the demos from the incubator.
[09:36:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Would you be able to create a full branch of trunk into the incubator, and then put your inlineEdit demo files into their proper spot in the demo hierarchy?
[09:37:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Then, when the incubator is deployed, your demo will be fully functional.
[09:37:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> this is what golam has been doing with the progress demo
[09:38:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anastasiac: yep. The stuff I have been working will be merged with the inline edit branch that mlam and justin_o have been working on.
[09:38:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, ok - no problem, then. I just misunderstood...
[09:38:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anastasiac: it will be runnable from incubator once merged.
[09:38:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> excellent
[09:39:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks for clarifying!
[09:39:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> np
[10:04:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jamon: ping
[10:24:17 CDT(-0500)] <jamon> jessm: i'll be a couple more minutes
[10:24:37 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jamon: sure, ping me when you can – JT has something for us
[10:35:27 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, it's 11:35 – either we do a super speed standup or we skip it today and assume everyone is clear on priorities and is churning away
[10:45:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jamon: ping?
[10:54:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> hey jhung - i haven't yet. i will soon
[10:55:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: thanks! Sooner the better so I can see if there are any needed changes to behaviour etc.
[10:55:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Doesn't have to be perfect.
[10:55:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> yep i was just in a meeting so ill finish up now... gimme an hour or less?
[10:55:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k thanks h!
[11:27:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, do you have a minute to discuss the IoC deferredFetchExpander?
[11:28:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm trying to understand what it does/what it's for, but I think I'm only partway there
[11:29:10 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> It looks to me like it creates the necessary resourceSpecs and stores them, so that a later call to fetchReources will get them, but I'm really not clear what this "disposer" notion is
[11:31:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I can see that it augments the supplied success function with the disposer, but what is a disposer? what is it for?
[11:32:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> also, is it expected that users (i.e. implementors) will most likely use makeFetchExpander, instead of writing up the deferredFetchExpander config manually?
[11:37:21 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> jhung whats the svn src url to your progress demo
[11:37:45 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/incubator/progress/FLUID-3751/
[11:37:57 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Wait.
[11:38:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah that's right.
[11:38:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> tanks!
[11:38:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> how are you feeling btw?
[11:38:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> meh. Better after taking some Advil Cold & Flu.
[11:41:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> good good
[12:03:54 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: forgot to tell you. please update your code for progress. I have added few small changes
[12:04:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: thanks!
[12:23:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> hi folks - is anyone able to reset svn passwords?
[12:23:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled or anastasiac ^
[12:24:22 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> checking if I have the pasword
[12:33:43 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> colinclark: i'm not sure if you just overheard, but Jan likes what he sees. I'm just going to simplify the aria-describedby text itself and then we should be good to go and i can work on the tooltip version
[12:33:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> No, I missed that!
[12:33:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Great
[12:34:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> sounds good
[12:34:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What about the element hiding issue?
[12:34:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> display: none, etc.
[12:34:45 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> no reports of the hiding, since he's using NVDA
[12:34:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[12:37:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> mlam: There's a class in FSS, I think, for hiding things offscreen without setting the display property to none
[12:37:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That should do the trick for Inline Edit, right?
[12:42:10 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Yes, Justin mentioned that to me earlier this week about the FSS offscreen functionality
[12:45:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> jhung how did it say we should give credit to the strawberry img?
[12:48:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: It was a creative commons v2.0 generic license allowing us to remix as long as we gave attribution.
[12:48:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> okay - what attr?
[12:48:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> can you send me the info about it
[12:48:52 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: so we just need to find a place to put the attribution. I think on the demo page where the image is displayed, and in the source code directory which the image resides.
[12:49:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> i was just going to put it as a comment in the css... is taht enough?
[12:49:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Heidi:Simon Koleznik
[12:49:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonkoleznik/396358600/
[12:49:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Modified under CC v2.0 generic license.
[12:50:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: I think the intent of the attribution is to have credit given in a visible way. So I don't think putting it into the CSS is enough.
[12:51:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> do we want that? or should we do without?
[12:51:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> it might be confusing to have his name and stuff on our demo?
[12:53:57 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hmmm yeah
[12:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> jessm: thoughts? The progress demo uses a creative commons attribution image in the background. Where should we put the attribution? Putting it into the demo may be confusing if read out by a screen reader.
[12:56:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> it looks fine w/o an img
[12:57:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> i think
[12:57:00 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: it's not critical. So don't worry about it for now.
[12:57:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> k ill remove for now
[12:57:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks
[12:58:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> golam i have a q for you, wanna come see?
[12:59:21 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> oh he's at lunch
[13:08:13 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> jhung update... gonna talk to golam about the last part where the success txt appears before the progress goes away
[13:08:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi: okay.
[13:09:12 CDT(-0500)] <golam> heidi: should I come over
[13:09:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> sure
[14:36:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi, golam: I'm checking out the progress demo. Looks good! Nice job at styling Heidi!
[14:37:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> thanks, np
[14:38:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Heidi: I find the font hard to read on my screen. Is it the same on your side?
[14:39:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> yeah the grey colour you mean?
[14:39:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> i took from your mockup but i think it could be darker
[14:39:46 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> is it grey? I can't tell if it's grey or it's just a thin font.
[14:40:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> do you need me to change it or can you?
[14:40:24 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I can change it.
[14:40:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> cool
[14:41:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam, heidi: It looks like the submit button doesn't disable while progress is on screen or at end of the demo. Do we have a disabled style for the submit button?
[14:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I took care of that
[14:42:17 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I will commit the changes soon
[14:51:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: cool.
[14:55:34 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung heidi: please update
[14:57:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidi> jhung i didn't get to vertically aligning the text in the green box - feel free
[14:58:43 CDT(-0500)] <golam> anastasiac: I have everything checked in for progress.. what do I need to do so Jan can have access to the progress demo
[14:59:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> coming over...
[15:29:23 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: sorry I missed your message. It looks fine to me. Good work!
[15:29:51 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: team effort
[15:30:02 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark, golam: are we frozen or can I still make a change to the font colour?
[15:30:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: Go for it
[15:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k
[15:31:42 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I have started the incubator build process and it's still going
[15:33:03 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, golam this url doesn't seem to work for me http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/progress/FLUID-3751/src/webapp/demos/progress/html/progress.html
[15:33:06 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> do i have the wrong url?
[15:33:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: See golam's comment above
[15:33:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> He's rebuilding
[15:33:28 CDT(-0500)] <golam> you have the right one
[15:33:30 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> ah, sorry!!
[15:33:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> golam: How long has it been rebuilding for?
[15:33:55 CDT(-0500)] <golam> over 20minutes
[15:35:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> golam: ?!?
[15:35:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> eek
[15:35:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> let me take a look
[15:36:15 CDT(-0500)] <golam> it's done
[15:36:25 CDT(-0500)] <golam> http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/progress/FLUID-3751/src/webapp/demos/progress/demo.html
[15:36:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> how on earth did it take 20 minutes to rebuild a whack of static resources?
[15:36:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I mean, there's no code there!
[15:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: and no instructions
[15:37:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: no instructions?
[15:37:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> next to "Instructions" it's blank
[15:38:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: if I mark a container with ARIA role=status, that should be enough to indicate its function?
[15:38:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> (as far as ATs are concerned).
[15:38:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: You're right!
[15:38:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hey jhung, should we write a little instructions block for this demo in the portal?
[15:38:58 CDT(-0500)] <clown> jhung: one moment, please... (BTW, what do you mean by "function")?
[15:39:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It won't impact Jan's demos, I don't think because he'll show just the iFrame's contents
[15:39:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> golam, heidi, jhung: The Progress demo looks really hot. Nice work!
[15:39:53 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> totes!
[15:40:25 CDT(-0500)] <golam> colinclark anastasiac: thanks to you guys as well for great pointers
[15:40:28 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: jhung: might it say "press 'Submit'"
[15:40:36 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> without the outside quotes?
[15:40:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: you mean put some instructions into the demo.html file or in the actual demo file (i.e. progress.html)
[15:40:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: That's awfully terse
[15:41:14 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: please press Submit?!!!!!!
[15:41:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: See above the demo iFrame, where it says "Instructions"
[15:41:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's just blank
[15:41:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's what we were thinking of
[15:41:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Very polite of you
[15:42:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: gotcha. I'll put something in there.
[15:43:36 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: the container we have in the progress demo is used to convey instructions, a progress bar, and then success feedback message. So I've marked this container as having a role "status". Just wondering if that's enough considering the dynamic nature of the div.
[15:44:59 CDT(-0500)] <clown> jhung, do you mean you have a div that contains instructions, progress, and feedback? Sounds like a composite, and you are marking that composite as "status"?
[15:46:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: only one of those are displayed at a time. Instructional text first, the progress bar replaces the instructions when the user has done an action, and after the progress is done, feedback is given to the user.
[15:47:17 CDT(-0500)] <clown> ah, okay. then why not mark the feedback alone as "status"?
[15:50:05 CDT(-0500)] <clown> jhung, just re-read the spec concerning "status" – it looks like what you propose is okay.
[15:51:25 CDT(-0500)] <clown> the status is implicitly a live region, with an (implicit) aria-live value of 'polite'
[15:51:38 CDT(-0500)] <clown> and, there is this caveat (that might apply to your case): If another part of the page controls what appears in the status, authors SHOULD make the relationship explicit with the aria-controls attribute.
[15:52:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: okay.
[15:53:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: I assume it's okay for multiple controls to control the same status area.
[15:53:46 CDT(-0500)] <clown> jhung, dunno offhand, sorry.
[15:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <clown> yes, that does sound about right (more than one control for the same controlled element).
[15:55:05 CDT(-0500)] <clown> jhung, sorry I've got to start packing up, if I'm going to make my train.
[15:55:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> clown: thanks!
[15:55:20 CDT(-0500)] <clown> wlcm
[16:05:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidi, golam, colinclark, others: I just make some changes to the progress. Changed font face and colour, added aria markup, and instructions in the demo.html file.
[16:05:43 CDT(-0500)] <golam> cool
[16:07:13 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: are you going to run the incubator build
[16:07:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: Why did you choose to add an ARIA role to the markup directly?
[16:08:27 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: Is there another way?
[16:08:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, typically we put ARIA in via JavaScript
[16:08:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So that we can gracefully degrade
[16:09:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The question you have to ask when you put roles into markup is, "without JavaScript, does this element still represent the same thing?"
[16:09:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, for something like a menu
[16:09:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yes. Makes sense.
[16:09:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> All its menu-ish-ness is gone without JavaScript
[16:09:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> for a status role, I'm not quite as sure
[16:10:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess there's the intention that this region should contain status information, even if JS is lacking
[16:10:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I just caught it because we very rarely add ARIA directly in the markup
[16:10:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyone else have any opinions about this?
[16:10:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Otherwise, I guess I'll argue to leave it the way it is so we can freeze, but change it later
[16:10:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How does it work with the screen reader?
[16:12:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> It works well with NVDA. The screen reader catches the change to the area and begins reading off the progress.
[16:13:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: I noticed that NVDA reads out "Price chopper grocery progress" after stating that there is a table.
[16:14:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: any idea what's causing that?
[16:14:27 CDT(-0500)] <golam> checking
[16:17:55 CDT(-0500)] <golam> which browser+mode you are using
[16:18:34 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: FF 3.6.10. Default NVDA mode (automatic?).
[16:18:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: I think it's reading off the smmary of the table.
[16:19:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: that should change anyway to be more descriptive.
[16:20:32 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I should add whats in the table
[16:22:36 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: should we change the summary?
[16:22:42 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: I can make that change. There are a few other small edits I need to do anyway.
[16:23:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: but not sure how to put the aira into the javascript file (see what colinclark was saying above).
[16:23:23 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: you think you can do that while I fix the html?
[16:23:27 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: I have added attributes using jquery for example liveRegion.attr
[16:24:17 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: I can do that so I add that attribute when the progress starts
[16:25:46 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: I guess that question I should be asking is does that stays all time
[16:26:27 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: does that role stays at all time?
[16:26:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: yes I think so, because even after the progress disappears, we display a different message.
[16:27:08 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: ok cool
[16:27:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> so the role should stay as status
[16:27:15 CDT(-0500)] <golam> let me make that changes
[16:27:21 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k
[16:27:29 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I will let you know once checked in
[16:27:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: thanks. I will remove the aria from the html file now. I also put aria-controls on the button too
[16:28:38 CDT(-0500)] <golam> let me know when I can update
[16:30:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: done. update
[16:43:04 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: everything okay?
[16:43:19 CDT(-0500)] <golam> just testing
[16:43:37 CDT(-0500)] <golam> give me few minutes
[16:48:05 CDT(-0500)] <golam> jhung: Just checked in
[16:51:30 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: just tested it. looks good!
[16:51:41 CDT(-0500)] <golam> cool
[16:51:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> golam: it will automatically rebuild, right?
[16:52:08 CDT(-0500)] <golam> I think every night it automatically rebuilds
[16:52:23 CDT(-0500)] <golam> but will confirm with colinclark
[16:52:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> golam: It does indeed rebuild every night
[16:52:49 CDT(-0500)] <golam> thanks
[16:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> cool.
[16:53:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Dare I say we're okay for Progress demo?
[16:53:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, golam and jhung...
[16:53:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You guys have been working like crazy
[16:53:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Are you both ready to have a weekend now?
[16:53:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: I can imagine some napping might be in your future?
[16:53:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: indeed.
[16:53:48 CDT(-0500)] <golam> ok sounds good
[16:54:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> See you guys on Monday
[16:54:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Thanks again
[16:54:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You have done amazing work with this demo
[16:54:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks everyone. I'm happy with how it turned out. There's a little quirk with the status region, but it isn't huge.
[16:54:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark>
[16:54:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thank you, jhung
[16:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> nice designs
[16:54:49 CDT(-0500)] <golam> same here...thanks for all the help
[16:55:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> see y'all monday!
[16:55:32 CDT(-0500)] <golam> have a great weekend everyone