fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-10-19

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Last updated: Oct 19, 2010Version comment
7 min read

[08:58:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, are you there?
[09:40:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey jessm
[09:40:45 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: yes sir
[09:40:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o and I have been chatting a bit about release tasks, where we're at, etc.
[09:41:02 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yes, wednesday is soon!
[09:41:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Indeed it is
[09:41:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o had a nice chat with harriswong and cindy about Builder today and things are looking pretty good there
[09:41:46 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> great
[09:41:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> But he mentioned lots of t-crossing and i-dotting to do, some of which needs to happen prior to freeze.
[09:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Wondering if you want to hang out with us on Skype for a few minutes and share some opinions?
[09:42:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> absolutely
[09:45:42 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: now?
[09:46:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: works for me, if it does for you
[09:46:07 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yep
[09:46:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> justin_o: you ready, too?
[09:46:19 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> yep, i'm ready
[09:46:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm just firing up Skype now
[10:50:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> justin_o: so what would be the best way to get access to the various versions of Windows / Screen Readers etc?
[10:57:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, colinclark_, anastasiac - our discussion about file reorganisation petered out a bit yesterday, but I'm keen to see if we can get to some ideas for what we can do today before Freeze
[11:00:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, colinclark_ is on a call right now, and so likely distracted; we should also include justin_o in the discussion, I'd think
[11:00:58 CDT(-0500)] * anastasiac reviews yesterday's chat log
[11:01:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Bosmon: justin_o and I want to chat with you about framework and Reorderer plans for 1.3 anyway
[11:01:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> so it will dovetail into file renaming
[11:01:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Let's chat about that first
[11:01:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> and be sure not to let the naming decision slip past today
[11:01:26 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> jameswy: jhung1: Hey guys, what do you think the default size of the undo/redo images should be for the undo component?
[11:02:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok, cool
[11:02:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I will have a CATTTAPPOINTMENT at 1pm MST
[11:02:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> ok, that's 3 pm EDT?
[11:02:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> mlam: 64x64 is a fairly standard "large" size icon. Jameswy: thoughts?
[11:03:14 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> do you think that's too large for the undo component to ship by default?
[11:03:30 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> jhung1: 64x64 is freaking huge.
[11:03:34 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Haha.
[11:03:49 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I put up 32x32 on the JIRA, which is "largeish".
[11:04:14 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> But I suppose if we want to scale for UI options in the future, 64x64 or even 128x128 makes sense.
[11:04:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> That;'s what I was thinking.
[11:04:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> File size will be about the same anyway
[11:05:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> Unless there's a big performance hit with scaling 128x128 (I don't think there is though.... unlike decapod which does scaling for much larger images).
[11:05:34 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ok, so for the time being, just ship the undo component with a default of 32x32 images?
[11:06:21 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> mlam: my feeling is that if we're doing the work now, we should put in 64x64 or 128x128. Otherwise we'll have to do it again later.
[11:06:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Bosmon, justin_o: Shall we chat now, on Skype?
[11:07:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jameswy, mlam: just to confirm, we're generating these new graphics from original vector drawings and not upscaling the PNGs, right? (tongue)
[11:09:05 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> jhung1: Naaah, let's just upscale the pngs!
[11:10:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> +1 for giant pixels
[11:10:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> (tongue)
[11:10:45 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> colinclark_, Bosmon: I'm free whenever you guys are
[11:11:30 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> how about a nice 8bit fluid theme
[11:11:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> 8bit?
[11:11:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Like, "the microcomputers of the 1980s"? (tongue)
[11:11:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> yes!
[11:11:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Like that!
[11:11:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> (smile)
[11:12:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Show them a picture of your ZX81!
[11:12:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> I'm with 8-bit only if we have 8-bit sound too.
[11:12:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> The Fluid SID chip emulator component!
[11:12:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The ZX Spectrum had 1-bit sound
[11:12:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> 1-bit is the way of the future (tongue)
[11:15:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> So, Bosmon, are you ready?
[11:16:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok, just give me 2 mins
[11:16:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> ok
[11:16:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> water boiling
[11:18:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> If only I had an EVEN FASTRE KETTOL, these delays could be kept to a minimum (tongue)
[11:23:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok
[11:24:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Let's call
[11:24:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark_, justin_o
[11:24:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> ok, lemme find justin_o
[11:24:55 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> hello
[11:27:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I thought I would share this video about the dangers of trying to share new technology and new attitudes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ15vUjgqvw
[11:35:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Bosmon: I'm sorry to do this to you...
[11:35:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> Jacob has just arrived for a visit
[11:35:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark_> So we'll have to postpone a tiny bit
[11:35:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh wow
[11:35:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Give him my fondest regards
[11:36:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> If only we still had Jacob (tongue)
[12:47:19 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> Bosmon, colinclark: let me know when you guys want to meet again
[12:47:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I am here now
[12:47:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What is going on there?
[12:48:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm on with jessm for a few minutes for FLOE planning
[12:49:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: you have an appt in an hour?
[12:49:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> yes
[12:50:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> i'll try to finish up quickly and we can talk
[13:41:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Hail, o KINGGG
[13:41:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I have just a little time now before my appointment
[13:42:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Do you want to discuss a few things?
[13:42:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Colin is still busy
[13:42:05 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> Bosmon: hello... sure
[13:42:14 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> okay.. would you like to skype or chat here
[13:42:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I don't mind
[13:43:23 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> maybe a quick call would be easier
[14:16:24 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> simple question: why, when i click on a "view demo" link in the portal and then click the back button do I NOT go back to the portal site?
[14:16:26 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> iframes?
[14:42:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Yes, evil iFrames
[14:42:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We could get rid of those in a future release by using Engage's ScreenNavigator
[14:43:31 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: cool
[14:43:46 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, channel of wonder we're finding some interesting things with Inline Edit
[14:45:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> justin's on his way
[14:45:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> he'll be keen to hear
[14:45:25 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> JenC: and I are going to document, but we've got questions
[14:45:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> great
[14:45:31 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: great, we'll ask the King
[14:45:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> let's wait briefly for the king, then go for it
[14:45:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ironically, the king is sitting beside me at the moment
[14:45:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but virtually, he is miles away
[14:46:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> O King!
[14:46:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: King, I hail thee
[14:46:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm and JenC have questions, justin_o
[14:47:03 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> (smile) hello...
[14:47:40 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm, JenC : what questions do you have
[14:47:48 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: we have a few questions about intended functionality for simple text inline edit
[14:48:00 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> on focus, should the keyboard user have a tooltip?
[14:48:53 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: not on focus of with the keyboard no... they should still get the focus styling though
[14:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: ok, so the intended interaction is to show the mouse-over the tooltip, but not the keyboard focus user?
[14:50:39 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: second question: no one should get a tooltip on undo/redo?
[14:51:12 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: there currently aren't any tooltips for the undo component
[14:51:24 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: should there be?
[14:53:04 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: ^
[14:53:17 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: probably in the future after we've updated the defaults for undo... currently it defaults to text links for undo/redo so a tooltip may not provide much more information. When we switch to have default icons for these actions we would likely add tooltips at that time
[14:54:08 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: i might have missed this, but why is our demo not using defaults?
[14:54:41 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i think that was probably discussed yesterday, perhaps while I wasn't there
[14:55:01 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: there are going to be new "better" defaults.
[14:55:30 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: will the new default include text undo/redo?
[14:55:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: currently the default is text links for "Undo" and "Redo". The demo uses a custom renderer for the icons and lacks tool tips
[14:55:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> new default will be iconic and will have approrpiate descriptions.
[14:56:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: why aren't we using the default in this case; i.e., the text 'undo' and 'redo'? is this in anticipation of the new icons?
[14:56:42 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: the work jameswy is putting into the styling of the demo will eventually inform (or even become?) the new default style for both inline edit and undo.
[14:57:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: The design of the demo didn't use text links for undo/redo
[14:58:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's really just an issue of time...
[14:58:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the outcome of our discussion yesterday was that, in every case, the styling in the demo should be the default styling
[14:58:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's just that doing it for undo/redo didn't fit into what we felt we could do in time for tomorrow's freeze
[14:58:53 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> ah ha
[14:59:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Now that justin_o and I are revisiting timelines, we could arguably bring that issue back up on our priority list
[14:59:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, eventually the default will be the arrows and will have tooltips, but it doesn't yet
[14:59:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yep, that's my understanding. justin_o and jhung1, is that your impression, too?
[14:59:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> colinclark: yep
[15:00:10 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so, to review the intended interactions for the red car new demo:
[15:00:56 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: justin_o: on focus the keyboard user should not get tooltips, but the mouse user should
[15:01:25 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: justin_o: and the redo/undo arrows should not have tooltips
[15:02:16 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: yes.
[15:02:22 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm: that would match the expectations for the current demo
[15:03:04 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung1: justin_o: schwoo – thanks!
[15:03:18 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> JenC has a ton of text feedback that she's going to send to list
[15:03:26 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> she made it awesomer!
[15:03:32 CDT(-0500)] <JenC> Haha, thanks, jessm
[15:03:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jessm: we're all about being more awesome.
[15:04:00 CDT(-0500)] <justin_o> jessm, JenC: that's great
[15:04:30 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> jenC: getting a good set of concise and clear instruction text is hard. We can always use help in our other demos! (big grin)
[15:06:06 CDT(-0500)] <JenC> I'm up for more, bring it on (smile)
[15:17:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ok, well, that was a bust....
[15:18:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> He just peed onto his towel in the crate at the last moment (tongue)