fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-08-17

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Last updated: Aug 17, 2012Version comment
7 min read

[10:37:33 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> can't get into standup

[10:37:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> so here's my update

[10:38:10 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> working on getting information together for a last minute grant to the Dept. of Ed with ISKME and IBM

[10:40:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Here's my update too: Heads-down on getting some styling changes done for the Decapod Exporter before heading off for vacation next week. Had good discussion with justin_o concerning Decapod 0.7 features and we have a better idea of our timeline.

[10:41:13 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung: is that timeline in the wiki?

[10:42:12 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> jessm: not yet. We did not get into detailed timline estimations, but we have a rough idea of the time frame.

[10:42:32 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung: does it differ from your update email to me and Colin?

[10:43:45 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Not different, just more detail wrt timing jessm. We would ideally like Sterep Dewarp + Calibration by end of September (or at least something we can start using to integrate). This gives us September to work on capture, server, and UI.

[10:44:01 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'll send email to you guys jessm.

[12:49:21 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> michelled: do we have a demo example of fluid slider anywhere on the fluidproject webpage ?

[12:57:53 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> michelled: nvm already found information I was looking for (smile)

[14:10:13 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: we need to take JIRA down for some maintenance

[14:10:20 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> it will only be down for about 15 minutes

[14:10:35 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: if you're working in JIRA right now, please save what you're doing

[14:10:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> sheesh

[14:10:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> there goes michelled DOING STUFF again

[14:10:59 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> (tongue)

[14:11:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> if you're not careful, you'll get an X-Men name, too

[14:11:34 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> lol

[14:11:43 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> what would the name be?

[14:11:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> FORGED IN THE SMOKE AND FLAMES OF THE SERVER ROOM

[14:15:20 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> quite a week: sparky gets spark'd and we just had a floe meeting about pussy riot and zebra mussels

[14:16:06 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> sounds like I missed a good floe meeting

[14:35:45 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: JIRA is back up (smile)

[14:36:00 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> michelled: yay! you sysadmin'ing?

[14:36:15 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> learning' anyway (wink)

[16:12:14 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: http://nowjs.com/

[16:12:17 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> you see this before?

[16:13:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it looks vaguely familiar

[16:13:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I find myself skeptical about the performance characteristics of these kinds of libraries, typically

[16:13:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> especially when they advertise "high performance versions" available from their sales department

[16:14:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Web sockets seem all the rage these days

[16:14:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it'd be fun for a collaborative Flocking jam

[16:14:38 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> phortran is talking about wanting to make a flocking jam app over in #monome

[16:14:54 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> now.js appears to be an abstraction over top of socket.io

[16:16:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[16:26:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4712 is in.

[16:35:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's great, thanks colinclark

[16:42:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> alexn: This is the WebVTT parser from the guy at Opera that completely lacks semicolons: https://bitbucket.org/annevk/webvtt/src/89955ae9a7c4/parser.js

[16:42:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Whenever michelled feels like it's a good time to hack on it a bit, I imagine the first step is to semicolon-ize it, lint it, and write some tests for it

[16:43:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'd recommend trying to fork it and contribute a request back to the author if that ends up happening

[16:43:56 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> colinclark: ok I will take a look into it. But it is pretty interesting to see no semicolons

[16:44:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "interesting"

[16:44:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> meaning terrifying?

[16:44:20 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> colinclark: he most likely was very inspired by python

[16:44:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess there's an important difference here

[16:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In Python, semicolons aren't part of the syntax

[16:44:42 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> yes "interesting" in quotes (smile)

[16:44:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In JavaScript, they are.

[16:45:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's an unfortunate bug that the omission of semicolons isn't as impossible in JavaScript as the inclusion of them in Python is

[16:45:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (wink)

[16:45:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Occasionally I see postings from people who hotly berate the ignorance of people who from time to time claim that "JavaScript's rules regarding the insertion of semicolons are incredibly unclear"

[16:46:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But I think it's generally enough for there to be a widespread IMPRESSION that they are unclear for them to count as being unclear : P

[16:46:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's sad that this issue came up so bizarrely with the whole Twitter bootstrap

[16:47:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm not even sure that it is genuinely true that they are clear... since all of the language standards we have are incredibly vague, especially by the standards of something like the Java language spec

[16:47:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and entertained as if it were a legitimately interesting thing to consider

[16:47:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And even where the specs are reasonably clear, they are not always followed

[16:47:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but of course, it shows how caustic rhetoric actually tends to lend validity to silly arguments

[16:47:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> as in the case of Crockford

[16:47:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So I think it's hard to defend a point of view that doesn't defensively insert semicolons in all places they are reasonable

[16:47:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> indeed

[16:48:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Unlike Crockford's arguments about "var" I think it is a case where "what is structurally reasonable" coincides with "what is widely supported by implementations"

[16:48:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: This all-tests.html file scares me quite a bit

[16:48:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I assume it has to be updated with the addition of each new test file?

[16:48:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - because it includes an HTML comment with an embedded piece of shell scripting? : P

[16:48:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, right now it does

[16:49:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I should have put a "TODO" on it saying "implement this in grunt once we start using it"

[16:49:08 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I was thinking about just this issue in today's SHOWER TIME

[16:49:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[16:49:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> i'll do that when i get back, perhaps

[16:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Start us on GRUNT?

[16:49:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[16:49:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> THat would be awesome

[16:49:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What is the blob of commented shell script?

[16:49:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it looks like the hint of something that will find tests automatically

[16:49:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but clearly it is not

[16:50:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It is the script which automatically generates the block of configuration containing the test files

[16:50:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Why is it clearly not? (smile)

[16:50:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, it is not "automatic"...

[16:50:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since you have to paste it into the command line yourself : P

[16:50:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it is better than a poke in the eye

[16:50:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ugh

[16:51:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I might have made a wiki page

[16:51:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It seems you are not unconditionally prepared to accept that it may be better than a poke in the eye : P

[16:51:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What would be on the wiki page?

[16:52:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> A description of how to run tests all at once

[16:52:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> how it works

[16:52:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and how to update the page with new tests

[16:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah yes

[17:00:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark... which was that reasonable and free text editor for the Mac again?

[17:00:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I am going to have to do some editing on a Mac shortly (smile)

[17:00:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> it will no doubt bring back pungent memories of my HYPERCARD days.......

[17:02:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah well

[17:03:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> remember that "reasonable" is relative to one's taste, at least when it comes to text editors

[17:03:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The one I use is TextMate 2

[17:03:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> https://github.com/textmate/textmate

[17:03:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I built it from source, but it wasn't terribly fun

[17:03:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I assume there's a binary somewhere

[17:03:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> do you have a Mac?

[17:05:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Mike Eisenberg is bringing one round

[17:05:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> To look at a bug on

[17:05:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Nothing that I can just download and use?

[17:06:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> let me find the binary for it for you

[17:06:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, he's got them posted

[17:06:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> https://github.com/textmate/textmate/downloads

[17:07:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Alternatively, you could do what the King still does and use Eclipse

[17:09:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: So this fork of QUnit you sourced the version in Infusion from

[17:09:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Contains your change to except() that Jörn apparently just pushed?

[17:09:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anything else notable

[17:09:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ?

[17:10:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Also, do you foresee this pull request breaking our antiquated TestSwarm installation?

[17:32:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I can't see that it would break it

[17:32:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok

[17:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since all the test files themselves are in the same places with the same names

[17:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's in

[17:32:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[17:33:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and clearly the tests themselves link to the appropriate QUnit dependency

[17:33:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thanks for the binaries

[17:33:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> no problem. I hope TextMate turns out to be vaguely tolerable for you

[17:33:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I sent an email to the list reminding people to keep the all-tests.html file up to date

[17:33:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm also going to ping the list again about the maven change to our build scripts

[17:34:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Awesome

[17:34:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I was thinking I would actually support your changes in the form they are in already

[17:34:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Possibly, with the option to move "tests" out of "src"...

[17:35:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> makes sense, actually

[17:35:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it would simplify the new scripts a tiny bit

[23:02:43 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> couch tour!

[23:02:48 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> oops wrong chan

[23:02:49 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> eek