fluid-work IRC Logs-2008-11-14

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[11:08:23 EST(-0500)] * Topic is '#fluid-work Inappropriate use of the letter Q may prove injurious to your health' set by Bosmo1 on 2008-11-14 11:08:23 EST(-0500)
[11:11:09 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> This morning I have been browsing around for combox implementations for use with InlineEdit
[11:11:15 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> So far my preference is for this one:
[11:11:17 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://www.brainfault.com/2008/02/10/new-release-of-jquery-selectbox-replacement/
[11:11:31 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Initially since i) it doesn't just seethe around crazily, and ii) works reasonably under Opera
[11:11:47 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> iii) doesn't look like shit, iv) is built in JQuery
[11:11:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Any impressions, or alternatives?
[11:32:58 EST(-0500)] <phiggins_afk> what's the license there?
[11:33:06 EST(-0500)] <phiggins_afk> or does that not matter?
[11:33:40 EST(-0500)] <phiggins_afk> ah ic This software is based on a dual license GPL/MIT
[11:43:52 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[12:00:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: I'm not entirely certain that a combo box is quite what we're looking for. Have you looked closely at the wireframes in the wiki?
[12:01:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I find this one a bit awkward. It seems to support this combo-boxish behaviour of either being able to select or type in your selection, but I can't get it to work properly, at least in FF3.
[12:08:19 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: The wireframes look like exactly what we have here
[12:08:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Am I missing something?
[12:08:31 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Simple+Text+Inline+Edit+Wireframes
[12:09:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Also, I see no problems in FF3
[12:09:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Are you looking at this demo site?
[12:09:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://www.brainfault.com/demo/selectbox/0.5/
[12:10:05 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There are two fields in the demo, the first one is just a simple entry field
[12:10:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, that's the one I'm looking at.
[12:11:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The full storyboard, while a bit verbose, outlines the step-by-step interaction here:
[12:11:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Dropdown+Inline+Edit+Storyboard
[12:11:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> There's nothing about this being a combo box as opposed to a standard dropdown menu. Perhaps this is a platform distinction I am making.
[12:11:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> What do you mean?
[12:11:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In other words, we don't need to support the combo- part of the box.
[12:11:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> All the wireframes I see have a little triangle to the right
[12:11:56 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well ok
[12:11:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, right.
[12:12:01 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is not actually a combo at all
[12:12:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The triangle part is right.
[12:12:03 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The field is read-only
[12:12:17 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I have been misusing the term "combobox"
[12:12:20 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Being a clunker
[12:12:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:12:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I couldn't actually get the combo part of this widget to work...
[12:12:28 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There isn't one
[12:12:32 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The field is readonly
[12:12:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, it seems like there is, that's the thing.
[12:12:41 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> ??
[12:12:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> How do you know
[12:13:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This would be so much easier to show you. Should I try to share my screen in breeze?
[12:13:23 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> glarg
[12:13:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Do you have an alternative suggestion?
[12:13:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I would ordinarily use iChat screensharing, but, well... clunker.
[12:13:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:14:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I could try to take some screenshots if you'd prefer
[12:14:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well look
[12:14:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I can see the code here
[12:14:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> $input.attr("readonly", "readonly");
[12:14:56 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It performs this, which is never countermanded
[12:14:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yes, but that's the thing
[12:15:05 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> So there is no possibility for combobox behaviour
[12:15:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> it still lets me put a caret in the typing portion of the combo box
[12:15:18 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> ok
[12:15:27 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It does that for me too
[12:15:36 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:15:36 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I'm sure we can find a way round that
[12:15:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That would be cool.
[12:15:48 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> That is HTML's fault, not this component
[12:15:55 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Or rather, this component's insufficient attention to detail
[12:15:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyway, I'm sure it's fine to prototype with.
[12:15:57 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> As regards HTML
[12:16:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the latter is probably the case.
[12:16:34 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> We have caret problems in FF with InlineEdit in any case
[12:16:38 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> They may not all be soluble
[12:16:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure, but this makes it worse.
[12:16:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:16:56 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Shush
[12:17:03 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Get back into your pyjamas, Kent
[12:17:23 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-1641
[12:17:27 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> This is the issue I mean
[12:17:32 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I am fairly worried about it
[12:17:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I think this component is really appropriate
[12:17:47 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Compared to the others I have seen
[12:17:51 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The implementation is pretty minimal
[12:17:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And fairly commonsensical
[12:17:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, I've seen this issue.
[12:18:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It is odd for sure.
[12:18:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Ok, keep prototyping with this component.
[12:18:16 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1>
[12:18:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's combo-ishness is overkill, but hopefully we can address that.
[12:18:31 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Just to be clear again
[12:18:47 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> By its "combo-ishness", you are referring to the fact that under firefox, a text caret can appear in the box if you click there?
[12:19:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, the fact that it is an actual combo box, rather than a standard drop-down menu.
[12:19:21 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> OK
[12:19:24 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I still don't understand then
[12:19:40 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> You already explained that we didn't want something that was a standard drop-down menu
[12:19:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The whole point of a combo box is that it is two things in one (hence the "combo" part, afaik)...
[12:19:45 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Because of the activation concerns
[12:19:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Sorry, let me try to explain...
[12:20:05 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> But other than that, the visual appearance of this control is identical to something that is a standard drop-down menu
[12:20:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Combo boxes provide two simultaneous idioms for selection:
[12:20:15 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Apart from the anomalous caret
[12:20:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. You can click on the triangle and choose an option.
[12:20:20 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Ah
[12:20:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. You can type into the text field portion of it and type in your selection.
[12:20:35 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> You mean, you want the field to be obscured or removed, when the dropdown list appears
[12:20:38 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I see
[12:20:59 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> All the same, that is not actually what the wireframes show
[12:20:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Whereas a typical dropdown menu is simply something you can click on a select from a range of options.
[12:21:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> No text entry at all.
[12:21:24 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The wireframes show something visually identical with what we have here
[12:21:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So the point about a standard HTML dropdown menu stands... it can't be styled arbitrarily and it can be programmatically opened.
[12:21:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Yes, visually identical...
[12:21:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Save for the ability to type anything.
[12:21:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Which, you're saying can be turned off.
[12:21:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Which is cool.
[12:22:01 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> What?
[12:22:06 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There is no ability to type anything
[12:22:09 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> We just agreed that
[12:22:21 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There is just an occasionally anomalous appearance of a text caret, on one platform
[12:22:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hang on, let me look at this again. breeze has locked up my browser
[12:22:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1>
[12:23:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Paste me the URL again?
[12:23:43 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://www.brainfault.com/demo/selectbox/0.5/
[12:24:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah, okay. I think I see this.
[12:24:51 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> so are you making a combo box or a droplist?
[12:24:58 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> jacobfarber1: AARGH!
[12:25:16 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jacobfarber1: Read the chat logs.
[12:25:19 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> i did
[12:25:25 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> looks pretty crazy
[12:25:30 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> lots of confusion
[12:25:31 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Somehow, this discussion is very much more frustrating than I imagined
[12:25:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: I understand now. This thing does not actually purport to be a real combo box.
[12:26:04 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> No, it doesn't
[12:26:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It just has a bug in Firefox 3 that makes it appear as if it is trying to be a combo box.
[12:26:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Now we are clear.
[12:26:29 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[12:26:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jacobfarber1: So to answer your question, we are intending to use a "droplist."
[12:26:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Not a combo box.
[12:26:58 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> thanks
[12:27:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Sorry for my confusion.
[12:27:04 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> thats all
[12:27:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> You called it a combo box, so I assumed, given that bug in FF3, that it was actually a combo box that you could configure to be a drop list.
[12:27:25 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There's no reason we couldn't make a combo-box inline-edit too...
[12:27:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> But I was just doing it exactly like Mr. Zoblotnick said
[12:27:35 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Sure, if we needed one.
[12:28:26 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Are you making a David Lynch reference?
[12:28:30 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> YES!!
[12:28:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I hadn't realized you were a fan.
[12:28:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1>
[12:28:37 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Have we talked about this before?
[12:28:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I bet you don't have a copy of "On The Air"
[12:28:45 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I don't know
[12:28:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I have never seen this!
[12:29:02 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> it is pretty incredible
[12:29:06 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Only 7 episodes!
[12:29:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I am sort of in the dark about much of David Lynch beyond Twin Peaks and Mullholland Drive, both of which I loved.
[12:29:11 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Since it freaked out the public so much
[12:29:15 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Air_(TV_series)
[12:29:28 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The last two weren't even shown, in the original run
[12:29:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Since the ratings had tanked so much
[12:29:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I will have to get this! Exciting!
[12:29:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This must have been just post-Twin Peaks?
[12:30:07 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> wow
[12:30:12 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> it is still only available on VHS
[12:30:14 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> After all these years
[12:30:25 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Maybe I should rip it, for all-hands
[12:30:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:30:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well yes
[12:30:58 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> 92 would be the year just after Twin Peaks
[12:32:29 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> "But the true sign that this was a Lynch production is a set of conjoined twins that show up almost randomly each episode (like Kenny's deaths in the "South Park" series) and walk around the set saying nothing but "Hurry Up!" over and over again. "
[12:32:39 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It was a seriously fantastic show
[12:32:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Appreciated greatly by all the 218 people who have voted for it on IMDB
[12:35:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> "Hurry up!"
[12:45:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> This component is sadly not very "modellised"....
[12:57:10 EST(-0500)] <jacobfarber1> Gotta love those committ logs where an entire app is comitted....
[12:58:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Gah
[12:58:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Kent has disappeared
[13:09:51 EST(-0500)] * ecochran (n=ecochran@dhcp-169-229-212-59.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[13:20:21 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> ....
[13:20:25 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Where is everyone
[13:20:44 EST(-0500)] * ecochran is here
[13:20:55 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> ok
[13:20:58 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> but /me is not everyone
[13:21:00 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Did we just decide to abandon standup?
[13:21:04 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I couldn't tell
[13:21:09 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> we were done
[13:21:13 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Ah
[13:21:20 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> did you not get a chance to speak?
[13:21:25 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> No
[13:21:28 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> berkeley was pathetically late
[13:21:30 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I'm sorry
[13:21:38 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I didn't hear practically anyone from Toronto either
[13:21:50 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> I assume that we just missed them
[13:21:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> since we were late
[13:22:03 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> When do you come into town?
[13:22:10 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> Bosmo1: ^
[13:22:17 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Wed. afternoon
[13:22:29 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> very cool
[13:24:37 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> So
[13:24:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I am in the middle of implementing inlineedit-dropdown
[13:24:53 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And have run into a really awkward problem
[13:24:57 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> On which I would like to take advice
[13:25:43 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The default behaviour of the component is to "submit on blur"
[13:26:05 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Where everything is tiny and atomic, like with a text field, this works just fine
[13:26:15 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Now, with the drop-down, it is a composite of a whole batch of elements
[13:26:29 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Which any attempt to manipulate them is naturally going to cause a blur on some of the others of them
[13:26:44 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> This of course makes it impossible to capture any event from them, if there is any kind of "submit on blur" handler attached anywhere
[13:27:17 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> For a start, does anyone have any suggestions
[13:27:34 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> My fear is that we have come dangerously close to the point where we will have to implement the "global focus manager"
[13:28:13 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> are you using a real select element or some collection of stuff that simulates a select?
[13:28:21 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is some collection of stuff
[13:28:25 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> ah
[13:28:26 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> A heap of li inside a ul
[13:28:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Now, when we get a "blur"
[13:29:09 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is critical to be able to work out, whether focus is moving onto one of these elements, or else outside them
[13:29:31 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And, to be able to do this "in time" to know whether we should handle the event or not
[13:29:39 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> it seems that the very first thing to be fired is the blur itself
[13:29:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Which would almost seem to be able to preclude being able to find out
[13:30:11 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> In reality, we would probably not get the essential info until some time later down the event pipelines
[13:30:30 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> There will be a blur, probably a click or other batch of "hard" events, and then a focus somewhere
[13:30:39 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> this is a case where you really want to do the update on the "select" action, not on the blur
[13:30:48 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well right
[13:30:54 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> a blur with out a select, would be a cancel
[13:31:03 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> But we still want to have the essential behaviouor of "dismissing" the control on blur
[13:31:09 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> yes
[13:31:10 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> We don't even know when to do that
[13:31:28 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> interesting
[13:31:47 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Since we can't "easily" distinguish the internal focus transfer events from external ones
[13:31:54 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac (n=team@142.150.154.160) has joined #fluid-work
[13:31:54 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Not until a final "focus" arrives
[13:31:59 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Hi anastasiac
[13:32:14 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> We are discussing an interesting issue with the new vestigial inline-edit-dropdown
[13:32:20 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Please scroll back
[13:34:14 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac fires up her browser to check the logs from earlier today
[13:34:28 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> So.... my current idea is for a kind of "dead man's switch"
[13:34:38 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Although I am not clear how it could be made reliable
[13:34:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> On receiving a blur, we set a flag
[13:35:00 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And sit tight, waiting to see whether a focus indeed "shortly" comes in destined for one of our elements
[13:35:10 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> For various definitions of "shortly"
[13:35:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> If it "shortly" comes in, then we fail to dismiss/cancel
[13:35:32 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> If it does not come in, say within 100 or 200ms, then we dismiss/cancel
[13:35:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> This should hopefully be within the browser's dispatching overhead, but not too long to create perceptual annoyance
[13:36:11 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Lots of crap in modern OS GUIs "dismisses slowly" anyway, although that generally annoys me
[13:37:01 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> could you remind me where to find the wireframes for this one? I can't remember what the behaviour is supposed to be from the user's point of view
[13:37:27 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well, we pasted a few links back there
[13:37:28 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I gave this one
[13:37:29 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Simple+Text+Inline+Edit+Wireframes
[13:37:41 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And Colin gave this one http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Dropdown+Inline+Edit+Storyboard
[13:38:31 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, right.
[13:38:54 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I remember being a bit confused about how this would differ from a regular html drop-down
[13:41:02 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[13:41:14 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Anyway, I think at least that part of the confusion is dispelled
[13:41:40 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The core reason we are not making it a real drop-down is that we cannot programmatically cause such a thing to activate
[13:41:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> At least, that is our current learning
[13:42:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok. sorry I'm slow catching up
[13:42:36 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> still reading the log
[13:48:21 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, thinking about blur
[13:49:21 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> what we want is 'submit on blur' behaviour, but really what that means is 'submit when focus leaves the component'
[13:49:41 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[13:49:53 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Which is actually a remarkably hard thing to determine
[13:49:56 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> since there will be lots and lots of blurs as the user arrows up and down the list...
[13:50:20 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> maybe blur on the individual list items is not the indicator we should be watching for
[13:50:33 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> there will be a container element, no?
[13:50:41 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> can we try to look for blur on that?
[13:51:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Yeah
[13:51:57 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> We are faced with this awful annoyance that "blur and focus do not bubble"
[13:52:00 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> At least not portably
[13:52:04 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> agh
[13:52:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I believe the rule is that they bubble on the Mozilla family, and not on IE
[14:07:21 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> ok
[14:07:25 EST(-0500)] <michelled> are we certain that we can't programmatically activate? I assume the robot manages but perhaps it's it using a specific location click
[14:07:27 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> The "dead man's hand" seems to be working.....
[14:07:37 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well, Colin says he couldn't make it happen on FF Mac
[14:07:49 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is well the sort of thing that might be impossible
[14:08:01 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Although my recent discoveries about FF keyboard handling might be relevant
[14:08:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled> what discoveries are those?
[14:10:52 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It will not handle non-alphanumeric keypresses if simulated just via "keypress"
[14:11:08 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It requires a precise sequence of "keydown" followed by "keypress" for the relevant keycode
[14:11:49 EST(-0500)] <michelled> yes, I think that was why the original implementation of reorderer listened for keydown. It's annoying.
[14:11:58 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is what I used to finally resolve FLUID-992
[14:12:06 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> By a completely disgraceful strategy
[14:12:47 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well, why would reorderer be simulating keypresses?
[14:13:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Anyway, check out the new InlineEdit-selectbox action
[14:13:29 EST(-0500)] <michelled> it wasn't simulating them, but it wasn't getting a keypress for non alphanumeric chars
[14:13:29 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I am interested in reports from different platforms....
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[14:13:44 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Oh I see, that is interesting
[14:13:56 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> But a sort of inverse problem
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[14:14:17 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I'm aware of the issue that on FF2 that the selectbox is improperly positioned
[14:14:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Which I am hoping a CSS wizard can help with
[14:14:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And Colin has observed that on FF3, the cursor is inappropriately appearing
[14:15:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled> going back to the 'dead man's hand' presuming markup agnostisism is there any concern that focus may go to something inside the element rather then the element itself? perhaps the correct behaviour would be blur anyway
[14:15:44 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Well, the problem is that focus is going to something inside the element
[14:17:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I don't think I was clear - I meant inside one of the possible selections in the drop down
[14:19:13 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[14:19:22 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Those are exactly the things which are firing the blur events
[14:27:54 EST(-0500)] <jessm> so, how come no toronto folks spoke up at standup about antranig not having given his update?!
[14:28:30 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: I thought his audio stuff wasn't working
[14:30:55 EST(-0500)] <jessm> well, we have no idea what he's up to!
[14:30:57 EST(-0500)] <jessm>
[14:31:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Ah well
[14:31:58 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> You will have to wait till Monday
[14:32:00 EST(-0500)] <jessm> at least we know he's not sleeping
[14:32:29 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: that's very true
[14:32:50 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> OK, well, for now, I'm off down the pub
[14:33:04 EST(-0500)] <michelled> some have said that he is actually a chat bot and therefore doesn't require sleep
[14:33:05 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Please do experiment with the various varieties of InlineEdit we now have in manual test
[14:33:16 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And report any issues/observations
[14:33:22 EST(-0500)] <michelled> ok
[14:33:42 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> I have made a general utility fluid.deadMansBlur = function (control, exclusions, handler) {
[14:33:43 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1>
[14:33:48 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: i'll try to check it out
[14:34:00 EST(-0500)] <michelled> nice function name
[14:34:16 EST(-0500)] <jessm> god help the pub
[14:34:33 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> It is a very fine pub
[14:34:37 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> And needs no help from God
[14:34:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> have a pint for me
[14:34:46 EST(-0500)] <Bosmo1> Although it is almost as old as God...
[14:34:50 EST(-0500)] <jessm> lol
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[15:54:50 EST(-0500)] <ecochran> just a reminder from me to the world, when something isn't working in FF, try restarting... I just spent half an hour trying to debug what ended up being Firebug on one of it's all too frequent freakouts!
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