fluid-work IRC Logs-2008-10-16

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Last updated: Oct 16, 2008Version comment
7 min read

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[11:00:18 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> Hello everyone. I just got back from the hospital. If there are no objections I'm going to try to work from home today and tomorrow and maybe on the weekend as well...
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[12:02:33 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'Justin is back!' set by colinclark on 2008-10-16 12:02:33 EDT(-0400)
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[13:31:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey jacobfarber, got a sec?
[13:32:01 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yup
[13:32:13 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is sick, but writing a bit of code.
[13:32:18 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> (tongue)
[13:32:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, it's related to the things formerly known as "Springboards."
[13:33:57 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yes, our Functional Examples....
[13:35:24 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is slow, don't mind me.
[13:35:44 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> I'm a pretty slow reader, so we're a happy couple (tongue)
[13:36:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ha!
[13:37:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Okay, so.
[13:37:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I've been playing around with the Inline Edit component.
[13:38:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I created a new bit of markup for my custom inline editor.
[13:38:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It was easy.
[13:38:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But then I wanted some nice styling for free.
[13:39:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I thought, "hey, InlineEdit.css in the css directory should do the trick."
[13:39:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I linked it into my document. Nothing happened, which I guess is no surprise.
[13:39:49 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> (smile) that file is soooo old
[13:39:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But then I looked at the CSS file to see how I could use it.
[13:40:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And it's specific to the Springboard HTML. (sad)
[13:40:24 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yeah, the whole concept was the other way around
[13:40:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What do you mean?
[13:40:42 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> the themeing css files was your styling for free
[13:41:00 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> and the InlineEdit.css file was for example specific setup stuff
[13:41:07 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> to better illustrate other points
[13:41:16 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> so its a little backwards.....
[13:41:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So if I link fluid.themes.css into my document, I'll get pretty inline edit-related styles?
[13:41:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Like a nice hover invitation, for example?
[13:42:06 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> in theory
[13:42:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But I'm in practice.
[13:42:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[13:42:29 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> should you link all the css files, and add a theme class, you should get it all automagically
[13:42:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[13:42:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so when you say all, which ones do you mean?
[13:42:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> layout
[13:42:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> presentation
[13:42:53 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> now, reality is none of the theme css files are 100% complete
[13:42:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> reset
[13:42:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> states
[13:43:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and themes?
[13:43:10 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> the following files are required:
[13:43:40 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> layout.css
[13:43:40 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> states.css
[13:43:46 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> themes.css
[13:43:52 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> reset is entirely optional
[13:44:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If it's optional, why would I choose to use it?
[13:44:24 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> it helps sometimes to do some dirty jobs
[13:44:35 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is asking earnest questions. And thinks it's fun to learn more about our nascent skinning system.
[13:44:38 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> like getting fonts to look 100% exactly the same across every browser
[13:45:09 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> sometimes you really dont want to have to wonder why the kerning on one browser looks wider than another
[13:45:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> true that
[13:45:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So for simple cases, you'd advise me not to bother with the reset?
[13:46:19 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> its not something to worry about - but its very easy to add or remove
[13:48:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k
[13:49:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And does order matter for the CSS files?
[13:49:56 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> it shouldnt, but i would be curious to see what happens if states.css is placed in any order. It should still work just fine.
[13:50:22 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> since its littered with "!important" everywhere for that very reason (sad)
[13:51:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I will try it.
[13:54:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Wow!
[13:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It happened for free!
[13:54:50 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> (smile)
[13:54:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> A nice tooltip, and a nice hover effect.
[13:54:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And I didn't haven't to do anything!
[13:55:15 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> states.css has defaults right out of the bag
[13:55:24 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> are you using those?
[13:56:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I suppose so, yes.
[13:56:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, I must be.
[13:56:44 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> so I was having a very indepth discussion with michelled
[13:56:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm using all the default selectors and class names for the InlineEdit, so I seem to be getting the styles in states file.
[13:56:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool.
[13:57:00 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yes
[13:57:37 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> if the css files were closer to completion, you would get stronger visuals
[13:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> a more complete setup for free
[13:58:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Nice.
[14:02:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark, anastasiac: jacobfarber and I were talking about the UI Options customization work today. We realized that we were using different terminology.
[14:02:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And if I want to use theme's styles in my page, I just give the body a class of .fl-theme-mist?
[14:02:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Assuming I want to use Mist?
[14:02:38 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yes
[14:02:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> magical
[14:02:57 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> just put class="fl-theme-mist" somewhere on or above your container
[14:03:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so we were thinking it would be good to come to consensus around terms. how does "skin" and "aspect" sound to you? "aspect" would refer to a part of a skin that could be configured
[14:04:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> such as 'colour scheme'
[14:04:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hmm
[14:04:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> a "skin" would be composed of several aspects
[14:04:40 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> michelled I think we need to discuss terminilogy when we've got a stronger graps on how we're going to tackly the problems, no?
[14:04:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: always to the point. (tongue)
[14:04:52 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> *tackle
[14:04:58 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> sheesh...."tacky"
[14:05:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> well, no, I think we should figure out words that we all understand (smile)
[14:06:07 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I was just going to update the wiki page to reflect the words we were using this morning when I realized that I used different words with AC and CC yesterday
[14:06:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Do you have a particular aversion to the term "theme" as opposed to "skin?"
[14:06:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jacobfarber: I think we can come up with some rough terminology now and refine it as we grasp more.
[14:07:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> btw, I kinda like 'tacky' - it sounds cuter and less violent then 'tackle' (big grin)
[14:07:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> how about tickle?
[14:07:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> lol
[14:07:38 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> we can tickle tacky problems, sure!
[14:07:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "We need to figure out how we're going to tickle this problem."
[14:07:54 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is being a dork.
[14:08:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, yes. michelled, why "skin" instead of "theme?"
[14:09:17 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> well, when I was using the word 'theme' jacobfarber thought I meant colour scheme since that's how 'theme' has been used in the skinning system so far
[14:09:35 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so then I thought that perhaps that's a general understanding that I just didn't know
[14:10:12 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> michelled theme == colour taxonomy?
[14:10:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[14:10:47 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> umm... jacobfarber, isn't that what you understood this morning?
[14:11:14 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> yes, Im just trying to throw colinclarks original words into the mix
[14:11:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so you're all suggesting:
[14:12:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> skin: a collection of display settings for a page, including themes, fonts, and layouts
[14:12:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ?
[14:13:25 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is pleased to see actual instructions on how to use the skinning sysem
[14:13:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> theme: a colour scheme for the page
[14:13:38 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is wondering if these instructions are anywhere on the wiki (smile)
[14:13:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: It's even more fun when you try the instructions and they work. Which they do.
[14:13:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I don't think they are anywhere, no.
[14:14:43 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac listens to jacobfarber and michelled discuss whether or not this should be documented
[14:15:22 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> \jacobfarber is trying to reference himself
[14:15:33 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> of course it should be documented!
[14:15:42 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so colinclark, yes
[14:15:43 EDT(-0400)] * jacobfarber is trying to reference himself
[14:15:49 EDT(-0400)] * jacobfarber is happy!
[14:15:59 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> \me is happy too
[14:16:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> forward slash
[14:16:05 EDT(-0400)] * michelled is happy too
[14:16:15 EDT(-0400)] * jacobfarber thinks we've all been slashdotted
[14:16:16 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is sick.
[14:16:21 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> there was some misunderstanding between michelled and jacobfarber regarding the relationship between the skins and preferable
[14:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but I think it's cleared up now
[14:16:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k
[14:16:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anything worth clarifying here?
[14:16:53 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fluid+Skinning+System+(FSS)
[14:16:58 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> is VERY different
[14:17:11 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> than preferAble and styleAble, im reallising
[14:17:13 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> slowly
[14:17:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is it really?
[14:17:38 EDT(-0400)] * jacobfarber is very confused
[14:17:42 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> i thought so
[14:20:01 EDT(-0400)] * michelled is listening to jacobfarber and anastasiac talk about how functional examples will be used in tutoritals
[14:20:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> cool
[14:22:21 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> colinclark, how much of the whiteboard content have you et al. archived?
[14:22:27 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> can we wipe any of it out?
[14:22:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> umm
[14:22:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i forget what is on there
[14:22:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> the framework overview?
[14:22:46 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> lots
[14:22:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anything meaningful to you?
[14:23:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> since you weren't there (tongue)
[14:23:11 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> there is soo much here im not familiar with!
[14:23:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> that will come with time
[14:23:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (wink)
[14:23:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it's probably all erasable if you guys don't think it's needed
[14:23:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> otherwise sketch it on a napkin for me (tongue)
[14:23:38 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber> well, we're going to try to grab a camera
[14:24:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jacobfarber: Don't assume anyone here is familiar with everything in the project.
[14:24:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's lots going on, and always lots to learn.
[14:24:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Which is wicked.
[14:25:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ooh, it works!
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