fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-06-02

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[10:35:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Just saw your note...
[10:35:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yes, I can review the ReadMe soon.
[10:35:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> great, colinclark - I'll let you know when it's ready
[10:35:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> thanks
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[10:54:26 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Justin_o: see you updated FLUID-2652 to release 1.2. Good motivation for me to fix it - I'm doing user testing in two weeks.
[10:54:33 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> !
[10:55:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alisonbenjamin: sounds good thanks
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[11:26:42 EDT(-0400)] * jessm is on high-alert for the read-me comin' my way...
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[11:37:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, jessm: The ReadMe is ripe for a review now
[11:38:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/trunk/README.txt
[11:38:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: hi, I just got in... I was just about to ask about that
[11:38:32 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> (smile)
[11:38:33 EDT(-0400)] * jessm reads
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[11:39:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: were there any changes for the framework?
[11:40:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: small changes - I added a link to a wiki page that I'm still working on
[11:40:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the actual changes are a bit too specific to be listing in the ReadMe, I think
[11:40:45 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> cool
[11:43:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac, elicochran: Couple of thoughts as I'm reading through it.
[11:44:12 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran is listening
[11:44:20 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is listening
[11:44:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. in the What's in this Release? section, I wonder if we should mention the ability to create your own builds. Just a quick sentence at the end.
[11:44:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> perhaps pointing to the wiki page that explains how it's done
[11:45:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. The first bullet in "This release includes," I think we could say something like this:
[11:45:03 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I wondered about that
[11:45:12 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it was in the last release, but not mentioned
[11:45:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Updated our graded browser support to include the latest from Yahoo's A-grade browser list." and include a link to Justin_o's browser support page
[11:46:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> actually, just "Updated our supported browsers to include the latest..."
[11:46:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yeah, for consistency we should have a verb in each bullet
[11:46:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think with our custom builds, we don't want to make a big deal about it, because it's still hard to build your own. But, on the other hand, we shouldn't hide the fact that it can be done.
[11:46:48 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> built
[11:46:50 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> added
[11:46:51 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> etc.
[11:48:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I wonder if we need that section where we first introduce the structure of our release bundles...
[11:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Both bundles have the following organization:"
[11:48:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Since immediately below that, we show the full structure of the release. Is it a bit redundant? I dunno; just thinking out loud.
[11:48:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> +1
[11:48:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> for removal
[11:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i like the examples and sampel code section
[11:49:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> +1 for removal, I think
[11:49:24 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is editing
[11:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> we've added a lot of great info to the ReadMe btw 1.1 and 1.2, it's getting a bit dense so a little pruning is good
[11:49:32 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> removal
[11:49:35 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> huh?
[11:49:40 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> isn't it showing different things?
[11:49:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> the both bundles org.
[11:49:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Down below in our Third Party Software section...
[11:49:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> there's a little typo
[11:50:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We say "Other third part software"
[11:50:04 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> is the whole bundle – the source code is just a subset
[11:50:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I also wonder if the CSS styling reset from YUI should actually go in that Other section...
[11:50:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> since, like our fast pull parser, we have only really used portions for our reset file.
[11:50:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: not sure about removing the bundle org. – it isn't redundant to the source code org.
[11:51:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: I think it is...
[11:51:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> jessm has a point, mostly because I've heard from at least two developers, who got confused as to where to find the InfusionAll.js file. They were looking for it inside one of the folders below the top leave
[11:51:28 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: combine the two?
[11:51:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The bundle organization shows the top level directories...
[11:51:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> hmm
[11:51:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but then if you scroll down, you'll see two other sections
[11:51:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Three other
[11:51:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Source code"
[11:51:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Examples and sample code"
[11:51:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and "Tests"
[11:52:05 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> yep
[11:52:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> These cover all the stuff in the bundle organization above.
[11:52:12 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ah
[11:52:13 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> true
[11:52:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I don't mind if you think it's still useful.
[11:52:24 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> well, i'm not sure i have a vote on removal
[11:52:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think the What's In could be streamlined to start with where InfusionAll is, and not duplicate the details further on
[11:52:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> still +1
[11:52:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'll draft something, and run it by you
[11:53:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k
[11:53:31 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark: +1 on moving the reset info
[11:53:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So for the YUI reset stuff, can we try this instead?
[11:54:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "fluid.layout.css is based on YUI's CSS reset styling [link]"
[11:54:32 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> better
[11:54:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> great
[11:55:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess it's actually fluid.reset or whatever.
[11:56:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm just checking with fj4000 once again to be really clear on this.
[11:57:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, that's just fine.
[11:58:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In short, we took bits of YUI's reset as a baseline, reworking things and expanding upon it.
[11:58:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So it fits within that "other" section pretty nicely.
[11:58:38 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yes, and it uses some ideas from here and there
[11:58:55 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> like Meyers recommended ppl change the outline for focused elementns
[11:59:01 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> we did that
[12:02:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is our Supported Browsers section in the readme up to date?
[12:04:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark: Justin_o's in a meeting - he did update the browser support section
[12:05:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[12:05:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, jessm, elicochran: I've committed edits based on your feedback - please have another look
[12:05:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So we're still offering "preliminary" support for IE 8?
[12:07:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o said it's been tested some, and seems to work, but he's not comfortable claiming it as "supported"
[12:07:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark: ^
[12:08:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, fair enough
[12:08:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i like that
[12:09:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I like the readme, too.
[12:09:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Nice work, dudes.
[12:09:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: edits look great
[12:09:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac was the ReadMe wrangler! Great work.
[12:10:01 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> lookin' good
[12:10:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> easier than herding CATTs
[12:10:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: one minor thing
[12:10:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we now say "Updates our supported browsers"
[12:10:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In that first bullet point
[12:10:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, i see
[12:10:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "This release... Updates our supported browsers"
[12:10:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes
[12:10:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes - slight change, based on jessm's suggestion for verbs
[12:11:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> verbs in the present tense, no less
[12:11:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> nice work
[12:11:35 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i like the verbs
[12:11:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I think that the ReadMe is closed!
[12:11:46 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yay!
[12:11:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> does that mean it's time to cut the tag??
[12:12:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I think so
[12:12:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Justin_o: what do you think? ^ Are we ready to cut the tag?
[12:12:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o's in a meeting
[12:12:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I don't like doing anything with out the Kings permission
[12:12:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> hmm
[12:13:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> you're the king now, elicochran (smile)
[12:13:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ooo, I feel tingly! (tongue)
[12:14:09 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> OK, anastasiac, I'm going to go for it. If this is anything like the last two builds, it will be the first tag but not the last.
[12:14:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> let's hope we do better this time
[12:16:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I sent the ReadMe
[12:19:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: I have one question from yesterday
[12:19:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I noticed the following new file
[12:20:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> "/opt/fluid-infusion/src/webapp/moduleGroups.json"
[12:20:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I don't know this file
[12:20:27 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: who takes care of the checkter.atrc.utoronto.ca .. it's a cool tool but the site is down alot, like now (tongue)
[12:20:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: lol
[12:21:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, you should probably be using the new Checker.
[12:21:08 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> ??
[12:21:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The old checker has a famous memory leak that causes it to disappear periodically.
[12:21:22 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> alisonbenjamin: the checker.atrc is often down - it's a known issue
[12:21:28 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> colinclark: do you know anything about the file "/opt/fluid-infusion/src/webapp/moduleGroups.json"
[12:21:31 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: I've never noticed that file
[12:21:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it's new
[12:21:37 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Bosmon wrote it?
[12:21:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: Let me grab you a link, one sec.
[12:21:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> maybe ask him?
[12:21:46 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> (smile)
[12:22:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> will do, new files can be trouble and since it's at the top level
[12:22:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Bosmon: ^
[12:22:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> Bosmon: what can you tell me about "/opt/fluid-infusion/src/webapp/moduleGroups.json"
[12:22:45 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> I guess the big question is whether it has been accounted for in the build scripts
[12:22:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> if it needs to be
[12:23:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: Try this one: http://www.atutor.ca/achecker/demo/checker/index.php
[12:23:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's a complete rewrite, and I think it's got its own set of strengths and weaknesses.
[12:23:23 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> hm... elicochran: Bosmon's commit log was "NOJIRA - attempting to dislodge SVN corruption"
[12:23:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But it at least tends to stay up.
[12:23:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> this isn't boz's file...
[12:24:05 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> jessm: is there a fluid monthly meeting tomorrow?
[12:24:27 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> doh!
[12:24:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If I remember correctly, it's used for the Builder, but check with fj4000 or michelled or laurel, maybe?
[12:24:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> michelled just left for lunch...
[12:25:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> ah, yes... looks like it
[12:25:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> alisonbenjamin: yes, we should
[12:25:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i'll send out a reminder
[12:25:27 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> 8)
[12:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> laurel, do you know anything about moduleGroups.json?
[12:25:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/trunk/src/webapp/moduleGroups.json
[12:25:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it parallels the build.properties file but in JSON
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[12:26:53 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> elichochran: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2732
[12:27:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> actually a monthly reminder will grow nicely out of thoughts i'm capturing for fluid-talk
[12:27:24 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: Can you please tell me how the best person to address iPhone concerns with would be. I.e., iPhone is completely inaccessible to blind users.
[12:27:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jessm: the monthly call is not in the calendar
[12:27:37 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> moduleGroups.json was created to group and describe the modules used for the build
[12:27:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: If I knew, I'd be talking to them right now. (tongue)
[12:27:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> anastasiac: i'm working on it (smile)
[12:27:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> laurel: I'm asking because new files have a tendency to be left out of the build ... so I'm just wondering if I need to worry about it while I'm tagging and bundling
[12:28:06 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: I meant within Fluid, not Apple
[12:28:07 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> fj4000 and I weren't sure where it should be put.
[12:28:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: I suspect this file is used in the build process, but shouldn't end up in the resulting files
[12:28:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: Hmm. In that case, here's always a good place to chat.
[12:28:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: OK, I'm going to go ahead and tag and we'll see what happens in testing.
[12:29:19 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> this was by the way the only file that raised a red-flag for me when I went through all the new files in 1.1
[12:29:41 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: the file is used for the new web-front-end to the custom build
[12:29:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: I'm going off to a meeting but I'll continue the process from there
[12:29:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> anastasiac: great, thanks
[12:30:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran> it pays to be just a little paranoid at this point in the process
[12:30:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh, yead
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[12:30:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yeah
[12:30:26 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> elichochran: I agree with Anastasia's observation - now that she's fully explained it to me (wink)
[12:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you (smile)
[12:33:50 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: I guess my major concern would be that Fluid, from what I can tell, is basing some work on the iPhone platform which is completely inaccessible to the blind. Whereas Windows Mobile and symbian are mostly accessible.
[12:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: Yeah, I remember that we had a chat about this when you were last in the office. And I mentioned that we are, first and foremost, going with a Web-based platform.
[12:34:31 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: or can be mostly accessivle. It is actually impossible to create a 3rd party screen-reader for the iPhone because of application security.
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[12:35:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: Our first implementation will be on the iPhone, but as I said before, we're going to make sure we've got a Nokia or perhaps Android version working asap so that we can continue to build great and accessible solutions.
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[12:35:53 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: well, if it is web-based then there really shouldn't be much versioning required, should there?
[12:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: That's the goal, yes.
[12:37:18 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: should be interesting to see how well the goal translates into reality. I'd love to take a look at anything mobile web from my Nokia when there is anything worth looking at.
[12:37:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: That'd be awesome!
[12:38:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> everettz: In general, I'm interested in chatting to you about how "grid-based" controls can be made accessible
[12:38:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I remember we started to chat about this a while back
[12:38:44 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: I'll be meeting with the accessibility manager from RIM next week. If anyone from the team has any questions that they'd liked asked I'll do my best to get the answer. Perhaps I'll post it to the list
[12:38:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Things like the Image Reorderer, and the Pager, etc. are things which could benefit from some kind of general solution
[12:39:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Hopefully we will be able to chat at All-hands a bit too, I saw that you will be attending there for 1 day at least?
[12:39:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: That'd be great. I know Jutta has been pretty closely in touch with RIM for our Engage and Aegis work, too. It'll be good for them to hear from a variety of people.
[12:40:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Do we have an engage SVN area yet?
[12:40:57 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: yes, I will be at the all hands meeting on the 22nd. Perhaps I'll take another look at some of the grid based controls and we can talk about some general solutions then.
[12:41:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> everettz: That would be cool - I'm interested in ways we could "coordinatise" these things in such a way that they can make sense verbally
[12:41:56 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: other than flat and mostly static tables grids aren't really commonly experienced (in an accessible format) by screen-reader users.
[12:42:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> When you say "aren't really commonly experienced"... you mean, that they tend not to encounter them, or that they tend not to encounter them in a way which makes any sense? (tongue)
[12:45:59 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: Well, any complicated grids that I have experienced haven't really made sense. There is an incredible limitation of serial access to information for screen-reader users in grids. there is a far lesser ability to intuitively "know" where you are and how that relates to other parts of he grid.
[12:47:59 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: But, let me take a look at the demos again, and maybe get a couple of others to look at them too, and I'll see what problems can be identified.
[12:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> jessm: http://www.vulab.ca/ is not an online pharmacy?
[12:48:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> where's that link?
[12:48:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> And how much of that do you think could be addressed by a kind of "coordinate" system, say announcing that "you are now at cell D10" etc.?
[12:49:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> alisonbenjamin: ^
[12:49:23 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> found it here: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Open+Virtual+Usability+Lab#OpenVirtualUsabilityLab-VULabDocumentation
[12:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> roger that
[12:49:52 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> but maybe we ought to give the vu lab people a call too.
[12:50:09 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> alisonbenjamin: they let their domain name registration lapse – I'll remove reference to that link – the only valid link is the page in the wiki: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Open+Virtual+Usability+Lab
[12:50:12 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> laurel: they know
[12:50:18 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> sheesh
[12:50:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> grief, indeed
[12:50:35 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: I think that D10 can be helpful in flat tables, although D10 only has meaning if it is a table with which the user is very familiar. I think that more helpful information can be presented if it can be determined how sighted grid users "know" where they are in the grid. And, this obviously will be similar, but different for each different type of grid.
[12:50:54 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it's enough to make me go to an online pharmacy (wink)
[12:51:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> alisonbenjamin: thanks
[12:51:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> everettz: It sounds like an interesting issue, I look forward to talking it over, perhaps with Clayton too
[12:51:39 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> now I know where to go if I need cialis!
[12:52:32 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> alisonbenjamin: are there any user testing patterns for the grid based demos / where would I find them?
[12:53:36 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: Do you mean user testing protocols? What grid-based demos do you mean?
[12:55:16 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> alisonbenjamin: yes, that is what I mean, couldn't think of the terminology. I guess for any component that is grid based, like the reorder, etc. Is there a list of the available protocols somewhere on the wiki?
[12:55:37 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: I see. just a sec I'll see what I can pull up.
[12:57:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz, alisonbenjamin, Bosmo1: I wonder if our Sakai site settings Pager example is workable? It's in a pretty early stage at the moment, but it might be useful.
[12:58:04 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> jessm: I actually think I am finally happy with the ui-options functionality on the website - but need you to remind me exactly what we were going to do with it.
[12:58:23 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> I recall the plan to add the ui-options page to the "demos"
[12:59:05 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> but then I'm drawing a bit of a blank
[13:00:14 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: Ok, there's this protocol: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Layout+Reorderer+User+Testing+-+Round+4+Protocol which you can use on this demo site http://build.fluidproject.org/uPortal/render.userLayoutRootNode.uP;jsessionid=DDB0FE29DD7C5739A8CB40B476DBAA34
[13:02:10 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: and here is image reorderer protocol - http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Image+Reorderer+User+Testing+-+Round+1+Protocol which you can use on this demo site http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/standalone-demos/reorderer/html/image-reorderer.html . I haven't looked at these in awhile they may be out of date.
[13:02:21 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> laurel: i think we were talking about just making it usable for transforming the demo page
[13:02:27 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> to showcase the component
[13:02:44 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> ah that was it!
[13:02:56 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> ok. I'm going to experiment with that right now then!!
[13:03:05 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> laurel: great
[13:04:07 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> alisonbenjamin, bosmo1 : I'll take a look at those later today and see if they will help. I'd just like to get an idea from other screen-reader users what they find challenging about complex grids.
[13:04:52 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: thats cool. we could use this info to improve the protocols or demos.
[13:05:03 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> everettz: if needed
[13:06:15 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran (n=elicochr@dwin-wlan-328.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[13:06:46 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran_ (n=elicochr@dhcp-169-229-212-59.LIPS.Berkeley.EDU) has joined #fluid-work
[13:07:44 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Bosmo1: One example of a simple, yet somewhat complicated grid, is a menubar and it's menus. Essentially there is a single row, where each cell expands down and any one of those child cells may expand again as an additional sub-menu. For some reason screen-reader users have been navigating this type of grid for years with no problems. I wonder if anything can be learned about how...
[13:07:45 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> ...screen-readers present this information.
[13:10:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'm cutting the tag
[13:11:00 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: yay!
[13:16:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> 1.1 tag is created... building the bundle
[13:20:46 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I have the bundle zips. Shall I email them to you?
[13:22:02 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think Justin_o is out for lunch
[13:22:04 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I can test
[13:22:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: ^
[13:23:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> cool
[13:24:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'll email to both you and Justin_o, anyone else want to test?
[13:28:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: The release bundle QA plan is here: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Release+Package+QA+Test+Plan
[13:28:17 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> excellent, thanks!
[13:28:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'll take the first task
[13:29:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> k
[13:29:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Source (individual js files) - make sure structure matches trunk
[13:36:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'll run unit tests
[13:37:50 EDT(-0400)] * yura (n=yura@ has joined #fluid-work
[13:39:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm back - was someone asking me something?
[13:49:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: the source trees look good. As expected moduleGroups.json was not included in the build, but we decided that was OK, yes?
[13:51:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran, yes: my understanding is that that file is used by the web front-end. Probably fj4000 can confirm
[13:51:11 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is sometimes wrong (smile)
[13:51:28 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> rarely
[13:51:34 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> that file was only for the custom builder
[13:51:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I've run the unit tests in FF3 on Mac, and IE7 on WinXP, on the minified code
[13:51:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> it should go whereever you see fit
[13:51:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> fj4000: ?
[13:52:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> fj4000:should that file be included in the distributed bundles?
[13:52:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> just confirming moduleGroups.json doesnt matter
[13:52:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> no
[13:52:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> fj4000: thanks
[13:52:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_, anastasiac: am back and just finished getting caught up
[13:52:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> np - should it be moved into a less trafficed folder?
[13:53:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> what can I help you with
[13:53:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: we've just started testing the bundles
[13:53:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, we're running through the Package QA plan
[13:53:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I've done the first task
[13:53:48 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think I've done the second
[13:54:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: at 1:51, I described what I did - does that cover the second task on the list??
[13:54:18 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: the Unit Test task specifically says IE7 Vista. Justin_o: how important is the platform and browser in this case
[13:54:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ?
[13:54:54 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I think that's just what anastasiac asked (wink)
[13:55:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I was just more wordy
[13:55:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: not 100% important.. the idea is get a broad coverage across configurations
[13:55:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> k, I'm checking it off
[13:55:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[13:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: did you build the modified bundles for testing the InfusionAll.js file
[13:56:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: yes, I emailed the zips to you and anastasiac
[13:56:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'll take the next one, pager on F3
[13:56:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: oops... think i just broke the task list
[13:56:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> sorry, miss understood
[13:56:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> modified bundles?
[13:57:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: that's a new thing... you can build the bundles with the InfusionAll.js replacing the individual js references in all the files
[13:57:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: very cool! I didn't know we could do that
[13:57:32 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: are there instructions for this? and do we ship that version?
[13:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> wow
[13:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/URL+rewriting
[13:57:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> that's just for testing, right?
[13:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I missed that completely
[13:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: it doesn't ship, at least not yet...
[13:57:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep just for testing
[13:58:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so do we test both versions?
[13:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, I'll build you some modified bundles!
[13:58:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: good question
[13:58:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> how do we know that this build works
[13:58:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ?
[13:58:33 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac is trying to take it as a compliment to Fluid that we have so much stuff to test
[13:58:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> before we were modifying the files by and
[13:58:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> by hand
[13:58:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: ^
[13:59:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... the modified ones are only for the InfusionAll tests
[13:59:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> which incidentally is most of them
[13:59:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o and anastasiac: my suggestion is that we test the modified files first, and then if there are problems then we compare them with the unmodified files... does that fly?
[14:00:09 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> so I'm going to build now
[14:00:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: sounds good to me
[14:01:06 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> Hello michelled
[14:01:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> hi mackrauss
[14:01:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: this is why Justin_o is still King!
[14:01:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> (smile)
[14:01:54 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> and I am but a humble servant of the empire
[14:02:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o and anastasiac: I'll have files for you in a moment
[14:03:22 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: is there anyone else around who can help with testing today... I put out an email to fluid-work but so far there is just the sound of crickets chirpign
[14:03:25 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> chirping
[14:03:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: maybe michelled and laurel could help?
[14:04:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes I can help
[14:04:14 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> maybe mackrauss?
[14:04:41 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i can help.
[14:04:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: this script rocks! did you write it?
[14:04:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: yes... i wrote that one... thanks
[14:05:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> dude, take a bow!
[14:05:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (smile)
[14:05:27 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> elicochran_: can I help?
[14:05:31 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i have some time now
[14:05:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: what do you think the best way is to distribute this files?
[14:05:35 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i don't know how to make a bowing smilie
[14:05:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> woohoo! we're building an army of testers!
[14:05:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I don't want to post them since they are preliminary
[14:05:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hmm... yes... hmm
[14:05:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: do you want to coordinate or shall I?
[14:06:03 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think it's ok to post them just put a warning on the page
[14:06:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I can email them
[14:06:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> michelled: OK
[14:06:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm going to post them to the testing page
[14:06:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I was just going to suggest that
[14:07:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: you can coordinate, you seem to be doing a really good job of it, i'll take your lead
[14:07:25 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> I could help testing, but I have Mac OS X 10.4 and that is not on the list as to be tested, right?
[14:07:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> elicochran_: are you assigning bundles now?
[14:07:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> michelled, fj4000, laurel: the Testing page is at http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Release+Package+QA+Test+Plan
[14:07:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> mackrauss: thanks for the help... i'll modify one of the tasks for you
[14:08:26 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok, so i can just assign it to myself then
[14:08:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> mackrauss: if you refresh the page you should see one now
[14:08:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I think that works
[14:08:40 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> Justin_o Ok. You modify and I test (sad)
[14:09:19 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac, Justin_o, fj4000, michelled, mackrauss, laurel: the zips are posted in attachments... creating links and warnings now
[14:11:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: thanks
[14:13:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: thank you
[14:15:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac, Justin_o, fj4000, michelled, mackrauss, laurel: a bunch of the task were assigned to me... I don't know how or why
[14:15:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm going to remove myself so you can grab your own
[14:15:58 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i just rewrote your name to mine
[14:16:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> fj4000: that's what I love about you (wink)
[14:17:09 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> (smile) im at your service
[14:24:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: are there particular test plans for the integrated demos?
[14:24:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... the sakai mock-up is UI Options
[14:24:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the uPortal mock-up is really layout reorderer, there is also an inline edit on that page that can be tested
[14:25:02 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ah now I see it
[14:25:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> thanks
[14:25:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> np
[14:26:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I opened the bSpace demo for InlineEdit... erp... JS error... I think that this is a build problem... I'll take another look as soon as I test the UI Options in Sakai demo
[14:29:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay....
[14:29:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I just tried the sakai announcements example for inline edit
[14:29:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> all good
[14:29:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[14:29:27 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> odd
[14:29:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> pager is looking good in Sakai as well
[14:29:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes
[14:29:43 EDT(-0400)] * elicochran_ is listening to anastasiac
[14:30:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, I wonder if your error is a build error, elicochran_, since it works for me
[14:30:23 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> i.e. the sakai example has all the necessary files, etc
[14:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> are you testing minified, or source?
[14:30:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> hmm, I was looking that the bSpace example
[14:30:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> not the Sakai example
[14:30:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: ^
[14:30:48 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> source, or minified
[14:30:51 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ?
[14:31:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> minified
[14:31:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: are you getting a security restriction error
[14:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> you're getting jQuery not defined?
[14:31:27 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I don't think so... let me go back to it
[14:31:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: yes
[14:31:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I get that for the bspace example, with source dist
[14:31:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> is that the security restriction error?
[14:31:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> wait
[14:31:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it works fine with the non-URL-rewritten version
[14:32:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hmm... (sad)
[14:32:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so I think it might be a bug in the url rewriting for that particular file
[14:32:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thats what I suspect!
[14:32:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: ^
[14:32:27 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep... saw it
[14:32:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, InfusionAll.js works for the other inline edit sample
[14:33:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so it's not that
[14:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o and anastasiac: I know that code pretty well... if I can get through this Pager test then I can spend a little time with it
[14:35:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: Justin_o and I were just chatting verbally
[14:35:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it's a bug in the url rewriting - the bgi-frame file needs to be included separately from InfusionAll, but it's not there in the url-rewritten version
[14:35:46 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o is looking into it
[14:35:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: awesome, thanks!
[14:36:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but in the regular version, it works
[14:36:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and the other inline edit stuff works with InfusionAll
[14:36:19 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so I think the bundle is fine
[14:36:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> if you open the inner file alone, it works
[14:36:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_ ^
[14:37:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: that makes sense
[14:37:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> that outer file isn't really one of ours
[14:38:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> it doesn't use any Fluid features
[14:38:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yeah, so we're ok
[14:38:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I'm assuming that the Email column in the Sakai Pager example is not supposed to sort, yes?
[14:39:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: yes... that is correct
[14:39:04 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> elicochran_ I did the test and I works fine
[14:39:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I don't think that the outer file should error, it's still an issue... but perhaps one that we can live with
[14:39:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> mackrauss: thanks for your help!
[14:40:00 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> well, it only has the error when the url-rewriting script is run on it
[14:40:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> that will never happen in the real world
[14:40:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: yes
[14:40:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> of course
[14:40:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Justin_o should probably look into it, but I don't think its a showstopper for the release
[14:40:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> and it's not part of our official QA testing. I opened the file by accident (wink)
[14:41:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yep... we don't release those versions...
[14:41:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> oh... it's good to know though
[14:45:40 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> sakai example in winxp - ie8 looking fine.
[14:46:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: FF3/Mac Pager Sakai Example passes!
[14:47:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: nice... the uPortal and uploader examples also pass
[14:47:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> everyone: remember to check your tests off when you're done with them
[14:48:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> looks like all the tasks are complete or in progress
[14:52:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I haven't tested UI Options before, should the initial values be present when you first open the dialog?
[14:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> you mean for the sliders
[14:53:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the test plan says yes... but I'm not getting them
[14:53:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes
[14:53:22 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> and the type in boxes
[14:53:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> no they should not be
[14:53:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, great
[14:53:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the text fields should be empty
[14:53:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> and the sliders at the min
[14:53:39 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> np
[14:53:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> great
[14:55:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> dare I say it? Things seem to be going really well!
[14:55:09 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac knocks on wood
[15:00:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> apparently, particle-board doesn't count as wood
[15:02:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I'm seeing something very strange with UI Options in Sakai (FF3/Mac)
[15:03:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: what's that
[15:03:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes, I doubt a woodpecker would enjoy to batch of particle-board
[15:03:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> a
[15:03:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the first time I use the keyboard on the size slider, it goes to the max setting immediately
[15:03:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I could not reproduce in trunk
[15:03:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: does the value in the textfield end in a 1
[15:03:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> 91
[15:05:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep there is a bug for that... if it is what i'm thinking
[15:05:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: so I open the dialog (with the keyboard), tab to the textsize slider, (the field says 9), tap the right arrow, and it jumps to the end and shows 91 in the text field
[15:05:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK
[15:05:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I wonder why I couldn't repro in the trunk?
[15:05:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> if you edit the textfield and then increment the slider with the keyboard it concatenates the string instead of doing math
[15:05:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> cool
[15:06:05 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> as a bug :0
[15:06:09 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> (smile)
[15:11:17 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: is the flash movie added to the uploader programatically with a relative path to the js file?
[15:11:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: not sure that I understand the question
[15:12:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the path to the flash movie is not determined programatically
[15:12:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> it is added to the configuration unless it is the default
[15:12:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> broken?
[15:13:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> not seeing the flash movie in Flash 10
[15:13:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: ^
[15:13:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: oh, wait, the SWFUpload itself does some path translation
[15:13:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: hmm
[15:13:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, almost done with this test and I'll take a look
[15:14:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: thanks
[15:14:13 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: it is working though... but it is a white box
[15:14:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ah, so it's the path to the image that's failing
[15:14:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> tricky
[15:14:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: ^
[15:15:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: can't keyboard to the "Easier to find" pane
[15:15:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: what is wierd is that i can see the button in FF3 but not is IE
[15:15:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> but that looks like a "known"
[15:15:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> wierd
[15:15:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> very wierd
[15:15:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: yes... are you arrowing from the other accordion bar
[15:16:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> it is part of one component
[15:16:17 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so you can't tab to the "easier to find" title bar
[15:16:32 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: ah, got it
[15:16:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> thanks
[15:16:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> that was not intuitive
[15:16:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: can you compare with the Uploader in the trunk
[15:17:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: I can see the button in both IE and FF3 from the daily build site
[15:18:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll try running locally from my check out of trunk
[15:18:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: thxs
[15:18:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: UI Options looks good FF3/Mac
[15:19:17 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: so it looks like just this uploader stuff and then we are good
[15:19:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: I'm starting in on the Uploader issue right now
[15:21:00 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: platform?
[15:21:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: okay... running from my check out of trunk, it is the same issue when run locally
[15:21:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: vista for me
[15:21:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> FF3/Mac worked for me
[15:21:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> hmm
[15:21:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i think anastasiac saw it in winxp
[15:21:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> so it looks like Windows specific
[15:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: yes... FF works, just IE doesn't show the button, but it still uploads fine for me
[15:21:48 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, xp - IE7 and FF3
[15:21:50 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> trunks is the same though
[15:21:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> and Flash 10 by the awy
[15:21:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh, wait - what issue?
[15:22:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: yep trunk is the same
[15:22:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> missing button image for Browse button
[15:22:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: ^
[15:22:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK then, a real bug, but not a bug in the build.
[15:22:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh, ok - IE7 only
[15:23:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> my call would be that this is "Not a Show Stopper"
[15:23:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: i would tend to agree
[15:23:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> but does it rise to the level of being mentioned in the Readme (please answer no)
[15:23:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> but be honest (wink)
[15:23:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What's the issue, in summary?
[15:24:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> IE7, the image for the browse button does not display in the Uploader
[15:24:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> The browse files button displays as a white box in IE 7 when running off the local system in Flash 10
[15:24:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: better description
[15:24:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (smile)
[15:25:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is this a regression of the pathing issue with SWFUpload? Due perhaps to the upgrade to or whatever?
[15:25:25 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I suspect
[15:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: could be
[15:25:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we probably should have caught this in testing
[15:25:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Or perhaps during the upgrade itself.
[15:26:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So only IE 7 itself is affected?
[15:26:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> No other browsers?
[15:26:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the way paths work in the Uploader did change in 2.2.0
[15:26:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> that I've noticed...
[15:26:38 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll check some more
[15:26:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we haven't seen in it FF3 Mac and PC
[15:26:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: Have you already cut the tag?
[15:27:00 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: yes
[15:27:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Weren't we planning to move to a process where the tag gets cut last?
[15:27:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we're testing it now... this is the only bug
[15:27:41 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_, colinclark: IE 8 same problem
[15:27:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: yes, I think so... but I forgot
[15:27:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> My sense is that this is something we should document in the README if possible, but if it's too late...
[15:27:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> it didn't get into the docs
[15:28:20 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: it's not too late if we accept that we don't need to do a full retest
[15:28:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Thoughts?
[15:28:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I can cut a new tag, build a new bundle and then confirm that the only file that has changed is the ReadMe
[15:29:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark, elicochran_ : I think we can do a quick test, 1 make sure that all the files are still there
[15:29:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> King calls it.
[15:30:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: can we confirm that this doesn't happen with the server version (I bet you already answered this ? and I missed it)
[15:30:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> and maybe a quick test of some of the pages... maybe also run the unit tests for the InfusionAll.js modified bundles and the the not modified builds
[15:30:49 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: we've been testing against the server version and it hasn't come up... it even works from the build site just fine so it seems to only happen if it is run locally
[15:31:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: OK, I breath easy!
[15:31:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[15:31:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ReadMe change, new tag, minimal testing
[15:31:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: when do you have to leave today?
[15:31:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: i'm going to be heading home now, but will be back online at about 4:30 for our standup meeting and can continue to help test now...
[15:32:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> 4:30 EDT that is
[15:32:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yep
[15:32:44 EDT(-0400)] * mackrauss (n=armin@ has joined #fluid-work
[15:33:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Justin_o: OK, great... I'll write up a JIRA so I have a number to put in the ReadMe
[15:33:25 EDT(-0400)] * laurel (n=Laurel@ has joined #fluid-work
[15:33:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> elicochran_: thanks... i didn't notice the problem in any other browser, but if you have a quick minute you may want to quickly double check opera and safari
[15:33:55 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll catch up with you in a bit
[15:34:21 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> elichochran_: let me know when the release tasks for the website come up...and if I can help
[15:34:27 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@ has left #fluid-work
[15:34:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> laurel: soon
[15:34:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I hope
[15:37:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I can also help with any website work, if laurel's left for the day
[15:38:06 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> i will stay until after standup
[15:38:19 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: awesome, the key item will be posting the releases which we're not ready for
[15:38:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> right, well - let me know what's next to do that I can help with!
[15:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we'll have a new tag momentarily
[15:41:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: I added the following line to the Uploader Known Issues
[15:41:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> FLUID-2895 blank Browse button in IE7 browser running Uploader locally
[15:41:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: Maybe use exactly what Justin said, since it was pretty smack on?
[15:41:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "The browse files button displays as a white box in IE 7 when running off the local system in Flash 10"
[15:42:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, done
[15:42:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome
[15:42:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> bit long but accurate
[15:46:09 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> mackrauss: I've just created the sandbox space where we can start sketching the artifact component.
[15:46:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's here: http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/sandbox/artifactSketch/
[15:46:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Quick question for you.
[15:46:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I've set up externals to pull in the fluid framework and third party libraries
[15:46:51 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, colinclark?
[15:46:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Does this space in the sandbox imply a change in procedure for our sandbox?
[15:47:04 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: cutting a new tag
[15:47:09 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> Thank you michelled
[15:47:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We've bounced the idea around of making the sandbox freely editable, in contrast to our fluid/ projects.
[15:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: I don't think it's so much a change in procedure so much as a statement about the artifact
[15:47:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Ok. So we'll go through the standard patch submission process, etc.?
[15:48:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> mackrauss was still going to work in patches in JIRA
[15:48:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes (smile)
[15:48:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> aha, ok
[15:48:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Good to know.
[15:48:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm not averse to the idea of potentially opening up the sandbox more broadly, but it was a conversation I wanted to have if you were heading that way. But it sounds like we can wait on that for awhile.
[15:48:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Thanks for clarifying.
[15:48:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> np
[15:48:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> the JIRA is question is http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2889
[15:49:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, great
[15:49:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> mackrauss, sounds like you'll get a good opportunity to learn Infusion and actually start building some interesting stuff with this one.
[15:50:48 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> colinclark, yes sounds like it. I am excited but also have a big respect of the learning curve
[15:53:23 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is learning git to get started with Jack, a promising option for server-side JavaScript for Engage.
[15:53:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> What is an artifact component?
[15:53:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> You will forgive me if I observe that this JIRA seems insufficiently described (tongue)
[15:55:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled, mackrauss: ^
[15:56:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Bosmon: yes, you can tell I created the JIRA (tongue)
[15:56:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> .....
[15:57:09 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> the idea is for Armin to start to get to know Infusion through building a sketch of a possible artifact component
[15:57:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[15:57:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I sort of grasped that much (tongue)
[15:57:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, well, that's about all there is now (tongue)
[15:57:59 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we are starting with Clayton's work
[15:58:04 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> I don't know much more either
[15:58:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and the McCord artifact page on the website
[15:58:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> You guys
[15:58:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> (tongue)
[15:58:40 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> from there we will build a tiny Infusion component that displays an artifact.
[15:58:46 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Have you established, to start with, that it makes sense to call such a thing a "component"?
[15:58:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Perhaps then we'll add some tagging
[15:59:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: This is one of these early JIRAs you'll see as we start to do a bit of exploration...
[15:59:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well
[15:59:44 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, exploration. sketching
[15:59:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it is in the sandbox for exactly this reason.
[16:00:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I would hope to see a bit more of a writeup of the expectations before that, perhaps on the wiki (tongue)
[16:00:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> You know... communication (tongue)
[16:00:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The point here is that mackrauss is going to learn Infusion and start digging into some experiments with Clayton's example and the user interfaces on McCord's site, seeing what comes out of it. This'll give him a change to get his immerse himself in the community and Infusion as the design team gets their feet with wireframes.
[16:01:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Undoubtedly you'll see him and michelled update the community on the mailing list, on the JIRA, and on the wiki with information as we go.
[16:02:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ya, we are just digging in here. we haven't actually started anything yet. We've in fact put on the mailing list exactly what we've talked about so far.
[16:03:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey mackrauss, on a totally unrelated topic, do you have a wiki account yet? And if so, what's your user name?
[16:03:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Perhaps the JIRA could have a link to the particular post in the mailing list? (tongue)
[16:03:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Great idea.
[16:03:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey, can we stop sticking our tongues out at each other?
[16:05:06 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> colinclark I have a user and the user name is mackrauss
[16:05:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, excellent
[16:06:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> OK... I will stop sticking my tongue out (tongue)
[16:06:18 EDT(-0400)] * michelled knows she doesn't put enough information in JIRA issues ... but she's trying really hard
[16:06:49 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark dodges spray from all the tongue-sticking.
[16:06:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I think, as a general principle, it should be obvious to any 3rd party looking at a JIRA what it is about... or where they can look for more information about it
[16:07:09 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> mackrauss: perhaps you can help me out and fill in more information on the JIRA and in the wiki?
[16:07:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think that's definitely the goal, yes.
[16:07:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'm emailing you the new non-modified bundles
[16:07:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And good idea, michelled.
[16:07:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Keep in mind that michelled is pretty busy collaborating with a lot of different people, so she often needs a hand in filling in the details.
[16:08:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: would you run all the unit tests in those?
[16:08:19 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> michelled I will help to fill some information in. Maybe after the standup or tomorrow Afternoon
[16:08:33 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> elicochran_: anastasiac has just stepped away from her machine but I'm sure she'll be back soon
[16:08:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> thanks mackrauss
[16:08:54 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> michelled: thanks! point her at IRC and email when she gets back, would you
[16:09:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> for sure (smile)
[16:09:22 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: (for when you return) I'm doing a file compare on bundles
[16:11:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: Is there some way we can mirror the jack git into SVN?
[16:11:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I expect so, yes. I'll do it once I'm set up.
[16:11:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 'twould be nice for people to be able to play around without having to build git, install it, and learn it.
[16:13:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[16:13:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> People tell me it is awful
[16:14:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So far, it's just making the switch...
[16:14:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I mean, do I clone the repo? Or check it out? But I'm reading an "SVN to git" tutorial now.
[16:14:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I guess it shouldn't be too bad, so long as you don't have to use it to commit anything
[16:15:11 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> colinclark: I'm looking for someone who can chat about problems on the website when url is http:www.fluidproject.org vs. http://fluidproject.org - are you a good person to ask, or who else might be able to help?
[16:15:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> laurel: I'm pretty focused on figuring out how we're going to build Engage's services layer at the moment.
[16:16:06 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> not a problem.
[16:16:24 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> when you have time (next year??)
[16:16:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark and anastasiac: I'll certify that the only thing that has changed btwn tags is the ReadMe (and the WAR which I assume is because it contains the ReadMe)
[16:17:20 EDT(-0400)] <laurel> anastasiac has stepped away from her desk.
[16:20:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I'm back - I'll run the unit tests on the new bundles
[16:20:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'll run them against the modified build
[16:27:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: all Unit tests run fine with the new tag and in the modified build
[16:30:43 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: unit tests run: src bundle in FF3 on Mac, minified bundle in IE7 on XP - all fine
[16:31:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: shall we stand?
[16:33:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> indeed
[16:39:00 EDT(-0400)] * justin_o (n=jmo@CPE001b63f2cc0e-CM0011aec4b062.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[16:57:55 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> Hi elicochran_, anastasiac just getting caught up on the irc logs
[16:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac, colinclark, justin_o: hi
[16:58:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jessm: I'm channeling laurel: if you're happy with the UI options page, laurel will fix whatever was broken and send an email tomorrow
[16:58:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> justin_o: shall we pause a moment for you to catch up?
[16:58:43 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> um... i'm almost there
[16:58:54 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> maybe 1 minute
[16:59:14 EDT(-0400)] <mackrauss> To talk about the artifact component, I will be around tomorrow Afternoon (Toronto time)
[17:00:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Well to sum up: we've got a new tag, the files are all the same except for the WAR and the ReadMe, we've run unit tests o the modfied and non-mondified bundles, all the functional tests have been run against the previous tag but not this one
[17:01:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the functional tests in the bundle QA plan, not all functional tests
[17:02:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> the question on the table, when you're ready justin_o, is "do we want to test anything else, or do anything else, to certify this release?"
[17:03:49 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> I think we should be okay... I guess you checked to make sure there were no missing files too
[17:04:02 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> in the zip files
[17:04:23 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> elicochran_: ^
[17:04:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> justin_o: I unzipped the files and compared them with both the trunk and the last tag
[17:04:38 EDT(-0400)] * clown (n=clown@ has left #fluid-work
[17:04:45 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sounds good then
[17:05:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac, colinclark: anything to add?
[17:05:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm cool if the King is cool.
[17:05:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I am so cool
[17:05:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> you are so cool!
[17:05:58 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> well i'm not cool, but the release is (tongue)
[17:06:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> you're all cool!
[17:06:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> then if you're cool, I'm cool!
[17:06:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: so Laurel is gone?
[17:06:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: would you like to post the release?
[17:06:50 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yes, she's left for the day
[17:07:00 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I can post it, sure - the bundles you emailed, right?
[17:07:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes, the last ones
[17:07:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I did send them, didn't I
[17:07:24 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes, I did
[17:07:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> k, give me a minute
[17:07:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, then I'm going to work on reopening the trunk
[17:08:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I haven't written the release email yet, because I haven't had to wait for anyone during this release! Yeah, everyone!
[17:08:28 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> congratulations guys
[17:08:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> this one was by far the most seamless
[17:09:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac and justin_o: thanks particularly to the two of you. always a pleasure!
[17:09:30 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark and justin_o: do we have dates for the next release?
[17:09:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: Not yet.
[17:09:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> End of July or perhaps August is likely.
[17:09:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran, the releases are posted
[17:09:56 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'll put tbd on 1.2 release page
[17:09:59 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[17:10:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'd better get to reopening the trunk, Bosmo1 has probably rewritten the entire code base while we were frozen (wink)
[17:10:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_, what can I do next?
[17:11:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: would you like to update the wiki?
[17:12:12 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> k - a new Current Release page, right?
[17:12:50 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: yes
[17:13:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> i can help when I the trunk reopened
[17:13:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I have to change lineendings
[17:17:31 EDT(-0400)] * justin_o (n=jmo@CPE001b63f2cc0e-CM0011aec4b062.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[17:32:10 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fluid+Infusion+-+Current+Release now reflects what's in the ReadMe
[17:32:43 EDT(-0400)] * justin_o (n=jmo@CPE001b63f2cc0e-CM0011aec4b062.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has left #fluid-work
[17:32:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: awesome
[17:32:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well done, everyone
[17:33:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac and colinclark: I just found a bug. the version reported by Infusion 1.1 is "Infusion 1.0" Crap!
[17:34:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> arg
[17:34:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we don't have a test or step in the process for that!
[17:34:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> looks like we're cutting a new release
[17:34:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> seems like we may want to leave it until tomorrow
[17:35:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: when are you here until?
[17:35:30 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'm here till we decide to call it quits for the day
[17:35:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: sorry dude, I didn't notice it until I went to update everything to 1.2
[17:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 'sokay
[17:36:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> these things happen
[17:36:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'm OK continuing
[17:36:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> let's keep going
[17:36:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark and anastasiac: we need to pull the release from the web site ASAP
[17:36:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> np, I'm on it
[17:37:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> done
[17:37:08 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran: ^
[17:37:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'll roll back my changes for reopening the trunk...
[17:37:14 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[17:37:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> change that one string and start new bundles
[17:39:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ellicochran_: also have to change build.properties
[17:39:58 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176406828.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[17:40:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it has a version of "1.1-SNAPSHOT"
[17:40:13 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> or did you get that?
[17:40:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i'm back
[17:40:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> no rest for the wicked
[17:40:41 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, you got that... sorry...
[17:40:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I need to roll back all those files
[17:40:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yeah
[17:42:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: not sure how to do a rollback in SVN, any ponters?
[17:42:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What are you trying to do, exactly?
[17:42:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I wouldn't do a rollback if I were you
[17:42:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> generally you do a "backwards" merge on your working copy, then check that in
[17:42:54 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I had already checked in the files preparing for 1.2
[17:43:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> in trunk
[17:43:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Just destroy the tag, make a branch from an earlier revision, modify it, and then retag it
[17:43:25 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> we could just overwrite the trunk with 1.1 tag
[17:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Bosmon: is that what you're suggesting?
[17:43:59 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_, no I don't think we want to overwrite trunk...
[17:44:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: No, just branch at the revision before you made the 1.2-related changes.
[17:44:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Call it 1.1.x or whatever.
[17:44:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Then make all your changes there.
[17:44:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Then cut the tag off that branch.
[17:44:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: ah, that makes sense
[17:45:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So... what was the revision you cut the 1.1 tag at?
[17:45:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> r7296
[17:45:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> does that sound right?
[17:45:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> checking
[17:45:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If so, you should be able to make a branch at that revision like this:
[17:46:00 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> 7299 is the revision of the tag
[17:46:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> svn copy https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/trunk/@7299 https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/branches/infusion-1.1.x/
[17:47:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena and Bosmon, stop me if I'm being an idiot.
[17:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena> if that's the rversion you want to be tagged, i think that sounds reasonable
[17:47:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: I think what you have said sounds correct
[17:47:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> From then on, you can treat that 1.1.x branch as the definitive place for changes that need to be done for 1.1.
[17:47:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ok, it looks like 7294 was the last check in before the 1.1 tag
[17:47:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I mean, if we were willing to "violate religion", we could even just modify the tag
[17:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> When all is cool, you can cut the 1.1 tag from that brnach.
[17:47:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I never quite understood all the reasons against that
[17:48:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmon: mostly just because it confuses people
[17:48:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The moralist advocating a violation of religion! (wink)
[17:48:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and also to make the CVS converts happy, most likely
[17:48:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> lol
[17:48:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well right, but who would ever look at ths history of a tag?
[17:49:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I vaguely remember Eric saying that there was a slight difference in how tags and branches are handled in SVN.
[17:49:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But I could be mistaken.
[17:49:12 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm going to bow out for 2 minutes, I'll come back thinking a little more clearly
[17:49:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: There is no difference
[17:49:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah there shouldn't be
[17:49:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's really just a semantic violation, as you both are saying.
[17:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes
[17:49:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think some of the reason for the convention is so that people don't have to worry about whether their tag is up to date
[17:49:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's not much work to create the branch and then re-tag. Though it is tempting to change the tag.
[17:50:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But athena's point is good. Less confusion.
[17:50:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I did it occasionally with a few RSF releases.... but I somehow felt bad about it
[17:50:08 EDT(-0400)] <athena> it would be annoying if you thought you had the tagged 1.1 release, but then it got changed, and what you had was no longer actually 1.1
[17:50:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> like when i do a sneaky checkout of the tag before you guys ever announce it
[17:50:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well.... clearly you would never change it at a time when it was possible anyone could see you (tongue)
[17:50:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The bigger a project gets, the greater that risk becomes
[17:50:42 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and then you find some issue, delete it, and re-create it
[17:50:49 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i know that i should check it out again
[17:50:49 EDT(-0400)] <athena> (tongue)
[17:50:58 EDT(-0400)] * athena has actually done this a few times
[17:50:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Perhaps I'll just go ahead and make the branch while we're waiting for elicochran_ ?
[17:51:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well, what we are doing with the tag now actually carries just that risk
[17:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> If we delete and recreate the tag, there is just the same untowards possibilities as if we modified it
[17:51:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmon: i thought last time i did that i got an error
[17:51:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Although I guess anyone trying to do an "update" from the defunct tag would get a fierce warning
[17:51:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Right
[17:51:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is that really the case, though? I would assume an error.
[17:51:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, you guys beat me to it (wink)
[17:53:26 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ?
[17:54:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: Just making your branch here.
[17:54:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You're right that r7294 was the last change to trunk
[17:54:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: thanks
[17:54:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Do we have a JIRA for this?
[17:54:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> nope, I'll write one right now
[17:54:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Or shall I file one?
[17:54:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, grewat
[17:55:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> great
[17:56:35 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: FLUID-2899
[17:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, here it is: https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/branches/infusion-1.1.x/
[17:58:21 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: I'm thinking that the string change should be done at the beginning of a release, or perhaps it should follow the build versions 1.1, 1.1-SNAPSHOT, 1.2, 1.2-SNAPSHOT
[17:58:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: You can think about this a parallel universe.
[17:58:29 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> cool
[17:58:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Trunk is now in the future, full of 1.2 stuff
[17:58:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm good with Parallel Universes
[17:58:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The branch is slightly in the past, allowing us to fix 1.1 issues.
[17:59:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: it's not completely 1.2 yet... I was in the middle of prepping it when I noticed the evil string
[17:59:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: Yep, definitely
[17:59:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> As soon as we re-open trunk, we should update all versions...
[17:59:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ok, I'm on this new tag
[17:59:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Our namespace versions, our maven versions, and this fluid.version property
[18:00:16 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is glad athena and Bosmon were around to give advice.
[18:00:42 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm glad the release is happening (smile)
[18:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i should really update uportal
[18:01:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> After this one, we're going to slow down a bit.
[18:01:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1.2 will probably come out in late July or August.
[18:02:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Featuring those Pager improvements I'm sure you've been wanting, athena. As well as the new IoC container we have planned.
[18:02:36 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sounds reasonable
[18:02:41 EDT(-0400)] <athena> awesome
[18:02:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> (smile)
[18:02:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark and anastasiac: so this will replace the current 1.1 tag when I'm done, yes?
[18:03:00 EDT(-0400)] <athena> pager seems to be working well for now
[18:03:07 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> or are we doing a 1.1.1?
[18:03:08 EDT(-0400)] <athena> was playing w/ the renderer today
[18:03:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: just replace 1.1
[18:03:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> thanks, that's what I though
[18:03:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I can just imagine it:
[18:03:33 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm going to delete the current 1.1 tag now
[18:03:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "New Feature in 1.1.1: We actually report our version correctly. That's it!"
[18:03:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> what a marketing story.
[18:04:13 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> lol
[18:04:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> narwhal is sort of an odd name for a product, I think.
[18:08:49 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/branches/infusion-1.1.x/src/webapp/framework/core/js/Fluid.js
[18:08:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: just FYI
[18:09:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> that looks good
[18:09:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: It works! I have jack running now. Not much to it, I suppose.
[18:10:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess the next step is to write a little app to run your benchmarks, just to see it all work.
[18:15:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: That's awesome!
[18:15:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> What have you made Jack to do
[18:15:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Run it's own examples, nothing more so far.
[18:15:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but, let's see what we can do with it.
[18:15:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> this will be fun
[18:16:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I wonder if the examples can be Run using Run Run Shaw....
[18:16:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sir Run Run Shaw?
[18:16:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes!
[18:17:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> He must be so good at Running things...
[18:17:29 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac and colinclark: I'm ready to cut the 3rd version of the 1.1 tag
[18:17:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Apparently he's very good at it
[18:17:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: excellent
[18:17:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: go to it!
[18:21:01 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> making bundles
[18:25:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I guess I had forgotten that there was this early version of the Renderer way back when you wrote these performance tests.
[18:26:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: Is it making a problem?
[18:27:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> No, it was just a surprise.
[18:27:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I have learned since then, for example, you just can't doo that kind of stuff with tables in IE
[18:27:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well.... it was mainly the reason I was writing them (tongue)
[18:27:16 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I just sent you the new bundles for the new tag
[18:27:23 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> excellent!
[18:27:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> do I need to test them before posting them?
[18:27:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: are you good with the same drill as last time. you = unit tests, me = directory/file diffs
[18:27:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes
[18:27:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> just to be sure
[18:27:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> sure
[18:27:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> don't you think?
[18:28:15 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> perhaps we're being to obsessive/compulsive
[18:28:26 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> no, o/c is good
[18:29:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I don't think it's o/c, it's a good idea, just to make sure.
[18:31:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Hopefully this will eventually distil down to some kind of repeatable procedure...
[18:31:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> ALthough I have to say, I never really got there with RSF releases
[18:32:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Every one was still a lot like this one... no matter how many I did (tongue)
[18:32:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Although few of them had even a fraction the testing of a Fluid release...
[18:33:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: We're pretty close to a fully repeatable process. There are still just a few snags we hit along the way.
[18:33:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Dunno if you've seen this: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Release+Process
[18:34:29 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> my diff tool does not like minimized files
[18:34:39 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> it assumes that lines are fairly short
[18:36:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Wow, we're not the first app framework built on jQuery: http://claypooljs.com/
[18:36:22 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: all the files are the same as the previous tag, except for InfusionAll.js and Fluid.js
[18:36:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I really have seen it, yes (tongue)
[18:37:03 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> "something strangely, beautifully in the middle" from the Claypool site
[18:37:26 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens342f (n=sgithens@149-166-143-211.dhcp-in.iupui.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[18:37:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It looks pretty bizarre
[18:37:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> indeed
[18:38:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It has 11 documented methods...
[18:38:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I noticed.
[18:38:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's this Chris Thatcher guy, who I have heard of in the past.
[18:38:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: unit tests all pass
[18:39:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> .router( "hijax:button",{
[18:39:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> selector : ':button',
[18:39:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> event : 'click',
[18:39:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> strategy : 'all',
[18:39:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> routerKeys : 'urls',
[18:39:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> hijaxKey : 'button',
[18:39:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> eventNamespace : "Claypool:MVC:HijaxButtonController",
[18:39:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> target : function(event){
[18:39:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> return event.target.value;
[18:39:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> }
[18:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> You write stuff like this...
[18:40:20 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: are we confident? should I post the bundles?
[18:40:44 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I'm thinking... feeling just a little spooked... one moment
[18:41:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Those Cool X-Ray Glasses are making me dizzy, Bosmon .
[18:41:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: I don't think that we've forgotten anything
[18:41:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yeah, best get some Ray-Bans(TM) (tongue)
[18:41:43 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I just wanted to reread the release process documentation one more time
[18:42:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: we think that we're done... can you think of anything that we should double/triple check?
[18:42:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: If you've run through the basic tests, and you've eyeballed it, we're probably good.
[18:42:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It seems it just takes us three attempts before we quite get all the t's crossed.
[18:42:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I can't think of anything else.
[18:43:06 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> well, that last one really snuck up on me
[18:43:28 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark and anastasiac: OK, we're good
[18:43:40 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: do we keep that branch around?
[18:43:44 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I'll uploaded the new bundles
[18:43:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The branch is not necessary
[18:43:53 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks! you're a peach
[18:44:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It can be inspected in history if anyone is interested
[18:44:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But in general branches get cleaned up once they have given rise to their "mature products"
[18:44:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: so this fluid.version string? what do you think that it should say while we're in development?
[18:44:40 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: done
[18:44:47 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thx
[18:44:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: I think it can be the same as when it's released.
[18:44:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So it should always just reflect the current version.
[18:45:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid.version = "1.2" for example
[18:45:34 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> OK, so it should reflect the version that we're working on, not the version that it came from?
[18:45:38 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> that makes sense
[18:46:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: should I start updating the examples at http://www.fluidproject.org/products/infusion/infusion-demos/ to reference the new release?
[18:46:41 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[18:46:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I'm going to continue to get the trunk ready
[18:47:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> thanks, guys
[18:49:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: You still around?
[18:49:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Hi
[18:50:18 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> what ever happened to our rich text inline edit test file?
[18:50:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> anastasiac: That ... got moved
[18:50:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: it was promoted to a springboard.
[18:50:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Ah yes
[18:50:37 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> to?
[18:50:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> That is what happened to it (tongue)
[18:50:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Or, as John Norman likes to call them, a Quick Start Example.
[18:50:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (wink)
[18:51:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Ok, sorry, I got distracted. Had a question for you.
[18:51:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ah, ok... hm...
[18:51:39 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> what to do with the demo page, then?
[18:51:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> which categorizes links by status?
[18:51:46 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> hm...
[18:52:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So fluid.renderTemplates() will render me a String blob ready to be html()'ed into the DOM, correct?
[18:52:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> colinclark: That's right
[18:52:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> It misses off the stages of the workflow that are DOM-specific
[18:52:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So if I were using the Renderer outside of the context of the DOM, it looks like I could basically parseTemplates()
[18:52:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Such as some decorator processing, etc.
[18:53:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> then renderTemplates()
[18:53:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[18:53:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> That is the idea
[18:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> then return that blog in a response, for example.
[18:53:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Those two methods are DOM-independent
[18:53:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> blob
[18:53:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> not blog
[18:53:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k. the code is very clear.
[18:53:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Well, semi-clear (tongue)
[18:53:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess the first step will be to port your old perf tests to the modern Renderer.
[18:53:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> The "fetchTemplates" malarky clearly won't work on the server
[18:53:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hopefully it will Just Work.
[18:54:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> But it is easy enough to throw together the correct structure
[18:54:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[18:54:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll take a look.
[18:54:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> That is one of the things that got documented in our last purge...
[18:54:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Sorry, fetchResources
[18:55:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Renderer+API#RendererAPI-fetchResources
[18:55:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I guess "fetching files on the server" is one of the responsibilities of what they would call "a standard Javascript library"
[18:55:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So as long as I source the template myself, I needn't even worry about fetchResources, right?
[18:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Right
[18:55:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[18:55:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> excellent
[18:55:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> You just need to put together a list of structures in this format
[18:56:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Basically you just need "resourceText" to hold the template text
[18:56:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I can use selfRender's implementation as I guide, I assume?
[18:56:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Yes
[18:56:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hokay, let's see how this goes
[18:57:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> So... you are going to make an app... just that when you request a URL, it runs these performance tests... and then uses the renderer to report the results as an HTML page?
[18:57:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> var thing = " The String is a Thing, My Lord";
[18:57:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> (tongue)
[18:57:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: That's what I was thinking, yes.
[18:57:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Wow
[18:57:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> That will be really cool
[18:58:06 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: the demos page on the website has been updated to reference the 1.1 released examples
[18:58:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Stick the template on the file system. Load it. Run the perf tests. Render it all and send it back as the response.
[18:58:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> but..... what will we do.... for BWAINS?
[18:58:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Sorry, I had better get some soup....
[18:58:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[18:58:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Your sex is all washed up.
[18:59:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Before I start quoting all the rest of the script
[18:59:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I feel it in my BWEAST
[18:59:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ha
[18:59:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac actually has a clue what we are talking about.
[18:59:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> She and "Scott" hosted a very nice movie night for Bullshot.
[18:59:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: what's next?
[18:59:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> "ROSEMARY! That's TRENCH-LANGUAGE!"
[18:59:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> (smile)
[18:59:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[19:01:47 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: there are various pages on the website that quote the latest version number (not including the actual News posting)
[19:02:02 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and then there's the actual downloads page itself
[19:04:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I'm going to start working on the downloads page, since it will be the most time-consuming (with all the known issue links...)
[19:05:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: thanks
[19:05:36 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: that sounds great
[19:05:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Since it's getting late...
[19:05:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This is one of those things we could pick up tomorrow, too.
[19:05:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> definitely
[19:05:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Now that the fiddly stuff is out of the way.
[19:06:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Bosmon: can I ask you a simple question?
[19:06:42 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> to reenable fluid.fail, all I need to do is uncomment the following line
[19:06:46 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> line 33: message.fail(); // Intentionally cause a browser error by invoking a nonexistent function.
[19:07:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: I think he's away, but let me double check.
[19:07:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> elicochran_: If I remember correctly, you need to swap the throw line for the commented out line.
[19:07:48 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> colinclark: he has disappeared from IM, so yes, he's probably gone to sleep
[19:07:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In other words, comment out line 32 and uncomment 33
[19:07:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ah, that is good
[19:08:10 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> almost screwed that one up
[19:08:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The reason we do this is that Firebug doesn't stop when Errors are thrown in code.
[19:08:31 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yep
[19:08:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Whereas it will stop when errors are thrown by the runtime.
[19:08:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So we actually cause a known error to occur, just so our debuggers will actually stop in development.
[19:09:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> let me update the task with that info
[19:10:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> I am here
[19:10:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon> Who says I disappeared (tongue)
[19:10:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I added a lot more tasks to JIRA for this release... perhaps a bit micro-manager-y but Clone works so well in JIRA, it makes it very easy to get all the tasks out there
[19:11:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> makes sense
[19:11:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> nice to have all the details set out for people
[19:11:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ooh, window cat
[19:11:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> actually, he's standing on the chair, looking in the window
[19:15:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Okay, I'm going to put these Infused performance tests into the Fluid sandbox.
[19:17:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I think http://www.fluidproject.org/products/infusion/download-infusion/ is fully updated to 1.1
[19:18:11 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> should I start changing the numbers on http://www.fluidproject.org/ and http://www.fluidproject.org/products/infusion/ ?
[19:18:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: reviewing
[19:18:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: that looks great
[19:18:51 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: yes, please
[19:19:37 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: trunk almost open
[19:19:41 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: done
[19:19:49 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I think the only thing left on the site is the announcement
[19:19:53 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> i.e. the news posting
[19:20:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: would you like to do this one?
[19:20:15 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I'll start drafting it
[19:20:17 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> cool
[19:20:31 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> do you want to send the email?
[19:20:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: One minor thing... I can do it if you'd prefer...
[19:20:52 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> I want to update the Release Process documentation before I go home so I don't forget... I have a few things like that versions string
[19:20:55 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yse
[19:20:57 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> yes
[19:20:58 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> ?
[19:21:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Maybe we should also link to the "Upgrading to Infusion 1.0 page" on the downloads page.
[19:21:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I know we link to the new Upgrading to 1.1
[19:21:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But perhaps some people will be coming from a pre-1.0 version
[19:21:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Thoughts?
[19:21:23 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> +1
[19:21:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> there are links to the upgrading page ont he downloads page
[19:21:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: right, that's what I mean.
[19:21:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I'll work on the News article for the site, you work on the email message
[19:22:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Should we also link to the 1.0 upgrading page there?
[19:22:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I can make this change if it helps.
[19:22:11 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> anastasiac: sounds good
[19:22:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark: since I'm not sure what you mean, go for it (smile)
[19:22:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[19:22:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[19:24:08 EDT(-0400)] <elicochran_> Trunk is Open!
[19:29:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, I've added a section to the downloads page called "Upgrading From Previous Versions"
[19:30:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://www.fluidproject.org/products/infusion/download-infusion/
[19:30:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> nice job
[19:30:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> this has been the best release process yet
[19:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> !
[19:30:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[19:31:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> elicochran_: I've got a news item drafted and ready to go.
[19:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, do you want to suggest a catchy 1-2 line into to the news?
[19:31:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ooh
[19:31:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i dunno
[19:31:51 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> what I've got is basically a copy of the 1.0 item
[19:31:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> what does it say now? should i check the cms and see?
[19:32:07 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> The Fluid team is pleased to announce the release of Fluid Infusion 1.1. In this release, you'll find updates to the Infusion components, helpful sample code, and thorough documentation. With accessibility and usability baked in from the start, we���ve got you covered. <a href="http://www.fluidproject.org/products/infusion/download-infusion/">Download the release</a>, check out the <a href="http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Infusion+Docume
[19:32:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hmm, yes
[19:32:29 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> forgive the pasted mark-up
[19:32:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> no worries
[19:33:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lemme think