fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-06-10

[07:43:52 EDT(-0400)] * heidi_ (n=thesumme@bas5-oshawa95-1176457466.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
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[09:26:34 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon, are you there?
[09:32:16 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon, the Fluid svn is not working - checkouts are failing, and our nightly Continuum build is affected
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[09:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> anastasiac: hi, i don't have access to thor for svn unfortunately
[09:49:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon: ah!
[09:49:44 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok...
[09:49:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> thanks for letting me know
[09:50:43 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> that happened a couple weeks ago too didn't it anastasiac ?
[09:50:58 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon, not sure - sounds familiar
[09:51:09 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> but I wasn't involved in resolving it, so I don't know what was done
[09:51:10 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> hmm
[09:52:03 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> I have access to thor, but I don't know where to look for logs, etc
[09:53:28 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> hmm, well the repository is web enabled, so check the site's apache logs
[09:53:57 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> the web access itself seems to be fine
[09:54:34 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> only commits that don't? if the commit is still done via http then the error log for the website will have something i'd expect
[10:07:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon, sorry - I was called away from my desk. Don't know if commits are broken - no one has tried to commit yet. Checkouts and updates are broken
[10:07:26 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> do you know where to find apache error logs? (smile)
[10:08:35 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> wait, got 'em
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[10:22:00 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> anastasiac: sounds like thor is out of disk space, mike has asked about cvs not working
[10:22:06 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> df -h should confirm that
[10:28:37 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[10:28:37 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> udev 10M 88K 10M 1% /dev
[10:28:38 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> none 442M 0 442M 0% /dev/shm
[10:28:42 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon: ^
[10:29:35 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> got it anastasiac, might be your user doesn't have full access to other mount points and can't see them
[10:29:47 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> nakul/mike are checking though
[10:29:52 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, cool - thanks!
[10:35:21 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> jamon, svn is working now - thanks!
[10:35:36 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> didn't do much but, heh, anytime (smile)
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[10:47:46 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Justin_o: to mark something as an a11y issue in Jira, do you just add a "a11y issue" comment
[10:50:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alisonbenjamin: yes
[11:03:40 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Bosmo1: did you get the email i sent you about everett's informal jaws a11y review of the pager.
[11:20:43 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Justin_o: do you have a sec
[12:13:37 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@ has joined #fluid-work
[12:14:43 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> Justin_o: do you have another sec ...
[12:14:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alisonbenjamin: sure
[12:28:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Did you see tona's email this morning about Antenna Audio's new iPhone app solution?
[12:29:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes... i've downloaded it to my iphone
[12:30:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ah, excellent!
[12:30:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Tell me about it.
[12:30:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's really interesting. We have a competitor here.
[12:30:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think it's curious to see their Flash-based promo site.
[12:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> it seems pretty good.. you can watch videos and listen to audio files through it
[12:30:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Pentimento is a lasting trace, often hidden to the eye, of the process and the maker."
[12:31:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Umm...
[12:31:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> okay.
[12:31:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[12:31:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (smile)
[12:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Antenna Audio rules the audio tour business.
[12:34:00 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: hi
[12:34:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: Hey alisonbenjamin. How's it going?
[12:34:28 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> good how are you
[12:35:42 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: you wouldn't happen to have davide penny from the dia's direct # would you ? i'll call the general line if not
[12:35:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Lemme check.
[12:36:23 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> thx
[12:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: No luck, unfortunately.
[12:37:01 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: np. thanks anyway
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[13:45:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: question about the custom builder for the web site
[13:46:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so we are wondering about how to get the json string from php to javascript... one possible solution is to have php generate some sort of file that the the component would read from
[13:46:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Ok, fire away.
[13:46:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll try to respond, despite being slightly distracted.
[13:46:42 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> Justin_o: http://satoewarna.com/jqsajax/
[13:47:28 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> Not sure what colinclark was thinking but I did find that link
[13:48:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> These seems sort of odd.
[13:48:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This php/jQuery plugin thing.
[13:48:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, just to be sure I understand....
[13:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The JSON string you're talking about...
[13:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This is the list of all the modules?
[13:49:27 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> this is the string that results from concatinating all the json files into one big json file
[13:49:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Right.
[13:49:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I don't think you need any special magic here.
[13:49:54 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> each json file representing a module (except one which represents grouping of the modules)
[13:50:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You'll probably want to provide a URL that the client side can make a GET request to. The result of that request will be to load the files off the file system, concat them together, and return the file as the response.
[13:51:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So you might have something like http://myserver.org/builder/modules
[13:51:23 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> so returning a "file" as a response or a string?
[13:51:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The component just makes an Ajax GET request to this URL, and PHP responds to it accordingly.
[13:51:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, a response body is just a string.
[13:52:12 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> ok..given - but we were discussing here if we needed to save the string in a file on the server.
[13:52:21 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> and then retrieve it from the server
[13:52:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> I see there is no need for that.{color}
[13:52:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm not quite sure what you mean.

[13:52:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Are you asking whether you should cache the concatenated file?
[13:53:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If so, yes. Building up that file is essentially static--you only need to do it when a new version of Infusion is released.
[13:54:57 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> is there any reason why we wouldn't just embed the php onto the actual custom build page?
[13:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> other than the advantage of caching - which I'm already aware of
[13:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> laurel1: I'm not sure what you're asking.
[13:59:10 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> well, rather than having a javascript call a different url, just put the php on the same page as the javascript - I'm assuming there must be some way to access a php variable from the javascript
[13:59:23 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> could be wrong
[14:04:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> laurel1: http://docs.jquery.com/Ajax/jQuery.getJSON#urldatacallback
[14:05:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> laurel1: Ah, I think I see what you're saying.
[14:05:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think it's not a good idea to mix up our JavaScript code with PHP instructions. That makes the hardest coupling possible between two different pieces of code.
[14:06:21 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> understood
[14:06:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It means our JavaScript could would never be just plain old JavaScript--it would be invalid without first going through the PHP interpreter.
[14:07:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: That's a good link as a starting point.
[14:07:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I've typically advised people to avoid using jQuery's Ajax convenience methods like these, for one small reason.
[14:07:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> They don't provide a way to register an error handler.
[14:07:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The callback argument of getJSON() is a success callback.
[14:08:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Whereas .ajax() allows you to register different callbacks for success and failure.
[14:08:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Good news is that ajax() is pretty easy to use.
[14:09:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay... i'll take a look at that
[14:09:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think Flutter uses ajax() to make GET calls for JSON data, so that can serve as an example.
[14:10:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: ah....
[14:11:24 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> any idea how php outputs straight json rather than a html page containing json data?
[14:11:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> i'm searching but not finding.
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[14:17:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> laurel1: I assume PHP can output anything as a response.
[14:17:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Thinking about it, I'd suggest the workflow look something like this:
[14:17:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. Application starts up.
[14:18:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. At startup, the php app loads the module files off the file system, mashes them together, and saves the concatenated file back to the file system.
[14:18:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. Upon request for the modules, PHP goes and loads that file, returning it as the body of the response.
[14:18:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Seem reasonable?
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[14:21:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: do you mind if i copy your ajax convenience function from Twitter.js
[14:21:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ha!
[14:22:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sure.
[14:22:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Remember we were talking earlier today, Justin_o, about my idea for a more general design for data access?
[14:22:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[14:22:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes
[14:22:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You'll probably find yourself wanting a few chunks of that code from Flutter.
[14:23:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll have to whip something up, and then you can just use the EntityContext or whatever I'll call it. (smile)
[14:23:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But in the meantime, go for it.
[14:23:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks...
[14:23:48 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> not sure what you mean by application starts up?
[14:25:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess stock PHP is pretty ridiculous for these sorts of things.
[14:25:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I wonder why we're even using it sometimes.
[14:25:19 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> so basically here's what I'm thinking.
[14:26:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There must be some point at which you can register code that gets run once. I guess you could just cache things yourself... go look for the file, return it if it's there. Otherwise, concat it, save it, and return it.
[14:26:12 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> client accesses build web page. http request retrieves json data - this data could be generated (if you are the unlucky person to be the first to access it after the cache is cleared)
[14:26:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[14:26:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we're thinking the same here
[14:26:36 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> json data could be retrieved from a file if you are not the first retriever
[14:26:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Honestly, given our success so far with server-side JavaScript, I start to have doubts about why we are bothering with PHP.
[14:26:56 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> i have found some simple php caching techniques that will work for that.
[14:27:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But for now, I don't want to get in the way.
[14:27:21 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> jason and I will experiment with the ajax call to retrieve the json data
[14:27:33 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> from a cached file or the php directly...
[14:27:37 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> i think we're getting it.
[14:27:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Gotta run, but it sounds like you're on the right track here. I'll be back soon.
[14:27:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool. Good luck with it.
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