fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-04-06

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Last updated: Apr 06, 2010Version comment
41 min read

[17:07:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: ok, great
[17:07:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I'll get this wrapped up before I leave tonight
[17:07:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then send an email to the list
[17:08:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Tomorrow we can test this stuff and then hopefully cut a release
[17:08:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Maybe if we're lucky we can release Infusion and Decapod at exactly the same time (tongue)
[17:08:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: How are we looking in terms of test coverage? Nearly done?
[17:08:39 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: not nearly
[17:08:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[17:08:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I guess I can do some testing after this patch
[17:08:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Where should I dig in?
[17:08:59 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> we need faster testers than me and we need someone with windows
[17:09:22 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: the release page is up to date as i understand it
[17:09:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Release+Testing+Tasks
[17:09:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[17:09:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Testing fast isn't the key
[17:09:56 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: yeah, but testing undistracted is
[17:10:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:10:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That's my problem, too
[17:10:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, it looks like there's probably another full day of testing
[17:10:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I've got a number of these XP-based browsers in VMs, so I can try to do a few
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[17:24:27 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: i'm keeping notes, but I can't tell if something is a bug or if it's an implementation novelty
[17:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: lol
[17:24:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I like that term
[17:24:48 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> "implementation novelty" - love it
[17:24:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The King is really good at this stuff--send your list to the list
[17:25:01 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok
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[17:43:08 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok, y'all – more testing tomorrow for me – i'm off
[17:43:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> see yous
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[08:45:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: So, King, did you have a good holiday?
[08:45:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes..pretty good thanks...
[08:46:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool!
[08:46:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, we're moving forward with the CKEditor change?
[08:46:54 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: do you have time for some questions, either here or on skype, at some point today?
[08:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think so... provided the normalization stuff is all fixed up... i spoke with bosmon a bit today already and it seems that he has added a new patch that will do that
[08:47:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: sure
[08:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: So he says. I'll take a quick look at it.
[08:48:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[08:48:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sorry for the cruft in my patch. I can't believe I missed that!
[08:48:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: (smile) it happens
[08:49:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I suppose (tongue)
[08:49:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think you can go ahead and commit the patch if you think it is ready to go in
[08:49:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[08:49:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll do that in a second
[08:49:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thanks
[08:50:18 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: I think i actually might have asked this, but I'm not quite sure what the answer was, so here we go again: what are you using at the moment for test-automation for fluid?
[08:52:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: at the moment we really only have unit tests that are automated in any fashion, and these are manually triggered to run.
[08:52:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> you can see them here http://build.fluidproject.org/unit-tests.html
[08:55:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: we have plans for the future to make these unit tests fully automated through the use of something like testswarm http://testswarm.com/ http://vimeo.com/6281121
[08:56:16 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: ok
[08:56:45 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: what are these unit tests programmed in?
[08:57:31 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> as in; have you used a particular program/framework, or do you just program these as you implement the fluid functionality
[08:57:54 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: dont know if that made any sense at all (smile)
[08:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> they are all javascript... they use jquery's qunit testing framework (http://docs.jquery.com/Qunit)
[08:58:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o (and kasper): I've been meaning to tell you for awhile that OpenCast seems to have gotten to a point where they've largely automated the running of their JavaScript unit tests
[08:58:29 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: ok great
[08:58:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I haven't looked into exactly how they've done it. They've got some kind of a Java-based test runner framework
[08:58:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> JSDriver or something like that
[08:58:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> we have extended it with what we call jqUnit, which makes it more like the xunit style of unit tests
[08:58:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: interesting
[08:59:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is Test Swarm something that we could conceivably start using?
[08:59:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess we'd have to set up our own server?
[08:59:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes
[08:59:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hmm
[08:59:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It'd be awfully interesting
[08:59:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i did apply to get on to their alpha but i think every open source community in the world did as well (wink)
[08:59:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[08:59:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Are they out of alpha now?
[08:59:49 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> we can just download their source from git
[08:59:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Interesting
[09:00:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i don't think so, but i'll double check
[09:00:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> nope still looks like it's in alpah
[09:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> alpha
[09:00:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It'd be interesting for both of us, kasper, too.
[09:00:26 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> yeah
[09:00:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Dunno how much work is it to get it set up, etc.
[09:00:52 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> I just looked at it earlier, it seemed quite interesting
[09:00:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: http://github.com/jeresig/testswarm
[09:01:25 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: maybe i should but jamon when he gets in to see what he thinks
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[09:01:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I think it's not a bad idea at all
[09:01:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's just a collection of PHP scripts
[09:02:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess the question is how ready is it to run other people's tests?
[09:02:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The installation instructions are pretty clear...
[09:02:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Create the MySQL database, setup the config, and start a cron job
[09:03:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Looks like Resig has even added mobile browsers into the mix
[09:03:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that's a good question... i guess we are in a good position since we are based on qunit
[09:03:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> mobile browsers too eh... that's handy
[09:03:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yep
[09:04:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Looking at Resig's stuff is a good example of how to create a polished experience
[09:04:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> He's done a good job, even in alpha, of ensuring that all the scripts and setup information is available to the user
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[09:05:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ack, Bosmon's -c patch for the CKEditor stuff changed every line!
[09:11:24 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: any chance you're here?
[09:12:49 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: So are you satisfied with 'only' using unit tests? Or are you planning to extend it with other types of testing?
[09:13:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Bosmon's fix for the HTML normalization issue is kind of funny, in that it's very specific. But it makes perfect sense--it's scoped to be used only by the CKEditor, which clearly has this very specific behaviour of adding an extra space before the first opening HTML tag.
[09:13:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I will go ahead and commit it
[09:14:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: okay... thanks...
[09:14:49 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: we would like to move into more test automation, it's just about finding a solution that is scalable, cross platform, and wouldn't take a lot of time to learn or use..
[09:16:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Wouldn't you say that we're not at all satisfied using only unit tests?
[09:16:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's just that we haven't had the resources to get over some of the systemic hurdles of automated acceptance testing
[09:16:41 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> ok
[09:17:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i was just about to say that
[09:17:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[09:17:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sorry, I'll stop interrupting you, then.
[09:17:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... definitely we would like to move as much as possible to automated testing, but the resource issue has been a barrier
[09:17:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: no, thanks for interjecting
[09:18:33 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> yeah ok
[09:19:28 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> I take it you have looked through some the options; like Selenium, Canoo webtest, doh.robot, etc.. The reason for not just going for one of them, is that due to not having the time to actually try them all out, that they seemed insufficient, or they seemed too much work to get into
[09:20:04 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> i guess missing resources is an answer to that question too actually
[09:20:25 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: (smile)
[09:21:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> a bit... we did go in and try out a few solutions, but where always faced with a barrier... for example with selenium their use of simulated events
[09:21:50 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> why was simulated events a problem (obviously, i can see the
[09:22:00 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> sorry.. only half the question there
[09:23:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: often these will be okay, but there are times when the browser will just ignore them. I'm trying to remember how this came up for us, but i think it had to do with our keyboard testing
[09:23:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> also not sure how it worked cross platform
[09:23:20 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> in all cases
[09:23:27 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> ok
[09:25:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: another issue with gui testing is finding the items of interest on the screen... there are several methods that I've seen for this and often you may run into problems when going cross browser... for example the xpath is different in different browsers... also the layout on the screen can be different even at the same resolution and window size... which can make using absolute positions a problem (not to mention that this is also brittle).
[09:27:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: i'm hoping that some of these issues have been addressed since i last looked at them, so the tools may be in a better position now.
[09:29:05 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: Yeah... I've been seeing people mentioning these issues on forums etc
[09:29:37 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: but one must assume that they haven't made it worse, since you last looked at it
[09:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: i hope not (smile)
[09:33:50 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: A final thing; It seems like there are webtest and selenium are the two most popular (free) options for webtesting.. Selenium runs it in the actual browsers, whereas webtest simulates the browsers. Depending on who you ask using actual browsers is more or less important. What's your take/experience on this?
[09:36:17 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: I'm more in the camp of trying to keep things as close to the real system as possible... so i would prefer to test in the browsers themselves
[09:37:20 EDT(-0400)] * jamon pokes head in
[09:37:48 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> yeah ok.. me too actually.. But i was afraid i was just being conservative (smile)
[09:38:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: (smile)
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[09:45:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I committed the CKEditor 3 support. Here's the JIRA: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3604
[09:46:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Can you take a quick look at it and close the issue if you're satisfied?
[09:46:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll now go ahead and remove FCKEditor from our repository.
[09:47:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks...
[09:47:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'll take a look
[09:49:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I also just noticed that our simple InlineEdit demo linked against FCK and TinyMCE
[09:49:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Some serious cut and paste there (tongue)
[09:49:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sounds like it... i think what it may have been is that they were both on the same page at one point... so i guess that probably led to it
[09:50:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep
[09:53:21 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: it looks good
[09:53:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> thanks
[09:53:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> just getting ready to delete
[09:56:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks...
[09:58:21 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: i found some things in my testing of the simple text inline edit that i wanted to ask you about
[09:58:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Today is a glorious day: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2664
[09:58:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Can you take a quick look and close if you're satisfied.
[09:58:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We should be ready to continue with QA now.
[10:00:41 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: great.. thanks... i'll do a quick test and then rebuild
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[10:17:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jameswy, yura, jessm, et al. you can now do all of the testing tasks as the changes to Rich Inline Edit have gone in this morning
[10:17:55 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: k, but i also want to chat with you about what i found yesterday ^^
[10:18:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: sure
[10:18:41 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i got some slightly different results on some of the testing on simple text inline edit and didnt know if it's an implementation difference or a bug
[10:19:07 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> on keyboard activation it isn't the case that all the text is selected, e.g. – in the different implemntations
[10:19:54 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> also, entering text or numbers with spaces isn't handled the same in all implementations – sometimes the spaces are represented and sometimes not
[10:20:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and in bspace on mouseover the pointer is a text pipe and not a hand
[10:20:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and hover text doesn't always show up
[10:20:32 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i could imagine all these things are toggle-able
[10:21:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: the selection and styling issues can be overridden... but the design was changed when undo/redo were introduced to have all the text selected... so this should be the case.. however this should already have been filed
[10:22:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the issue with the curser should be filed if it isn't already...
[10:22:42 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: but i think in the case of the curser it might have been intentional
[10:22:48 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> in bspace there are links under the editable text
[10:23:00 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> when you mouseover the links you get a hand, when you mouseover the text box you get a pipe
[10:23:55 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> the one with the text spacing... i think i should probably drop it from the test or do something about it as there was a jira filed already and it seems that it isn't something that will be easily fixed and possible shouldn't for this particular case... basically the browser handles white space... so if we were to force this it would be more like a rich text editor than a simple editor
[10:24:04 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: i see... okay.. then in that case don't worry about it
[10:24:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: the hover text doesn't work on our build demo site
[10:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> that seems a problem
[10:24:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> we really need to address our demos I think at some point and make them more in line with what we want to showcase
[10:24:57 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: hmm
[10:25:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> which page are you looking at exactly?
[10:25:13 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and i don't know what to say about the use of spaces
[10:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> and what configuration are you using
[10:25:29 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i ran through sakai, bspace, and demo on the inline edit simple text test page
[10:25:51 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ff3.6 and safari 4 whatever on mac osx blah - it's on the test page
[10:25:51 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> and the tooltips didn't work on any of them
[10:26:03 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it worked on all of them except the demo
[10:27:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: hmm.. you're right
[10:27:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: in the demo on safari all the text isn't highlighted on keyboard activation
[10:28:08 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i was just a very unsure tester – i don't know if these are bugs or something else
[10:28:44 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> there was enough variation that it made me pause
[10:28:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: so the problem with the demo is that the tooltip isn't turned on... so that's why it doesn't work
[10:28:54 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> see, that's what i figured
[10:29:01 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it's all nobs and dials
[10:29:12 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: but we should probably file it since we probably want to showcase it... so that was a good catch
[10:29:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so what i'm testing is actually more complex than the test shows
[10:29:29 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> maybe the test should just be on the demo site?
[10:29:43 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and then there should be a test specific to sakai and bspace? i've no idea hwat i'm saying
[10:30:02 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> but the implementations seem to be specific to , well, the implementation
[10:35:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: (smile) the tests are supposed to be somewhat general so that you can use them in differing cases... but they can't handle every use case. You do raise a good point about what should be tested.
[10:36:22 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: i think it also reveals that i'm a pretty newbie tester
[10:37:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> (smile) no...
[10:37:27 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> But maybe we should rethink what actually undergoes the exhaustive testing and what just gets quickly checked to make sure it isn't broken
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[10:38:57 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: i actually think it's helpful to have the implementation pieces there – i reinforces that to implement these components you don't just drop them in as is – that there are design considerations and questions that need to be addressed – the sakai site is a good example. it has links under the text boxes – you wouldn't want to present them the same way
[10:39:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i could imagine that little bit of demonstration of the use of the component could help people understand how it can be customized
[10:39:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: that is a very good point...
[10:41:37 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: r.e. confluence, want me to schedule an upgrade time?
[10:42:49 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: i didn't know there was an upgrade needed
[10:42:58 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: i would suggest end of day if possible
[10:43:25 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: we're at 3.0.0_01, 3.2 is out, i'll read through release notes and erratum
[10:44:18 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: do you think it will help with the little issues we've been having? like the daily emails? they aren't being generated again – i think since Friday
[10:44:54 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: that's been happening a lot lately, and it hasn't been touched at all, that i'm sure of, so i can't see how it would hurt
[10:45:57 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: i've wanted to move the wiki and jira into virtual machine(s) as well, but that might be wishful thinking?
[10:46:16 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: if you have some time – now might be the magic moment
[10:46:39 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: we're a little bit slower lately and there might be a window with IDI slowing down a bit this week too?
[10:47:35 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: it would be nice, e.g. consolidate fluid things into a VM
[10:48:13 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: also, justin mentioned antranig was looking for me?
[10:48:58 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: yeah, not sure about antranig
[10:49:21 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: well, have a read through the release info on the new ver. of confluence and let me know what you think – VMs seems possible regardless, no?
[10:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: any idea what happened with alfresco yesterday?
[10:49:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: and third thing! we need to work with you to get the demo for decapod up today or tomorrow if you can
[10:52:34 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: 1) i think the upgrade is a good idea regardless, tons of issues have been fixed, and running a fresh .0 release (2.x.x cf 3.0.0) makes me a little wary, so I'd put money on 3.2 having matured a lot
[10:53:01 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> 2) no idea about alfresco, i've been trying to get it running in tomcat instead of as a standalone service, i think that will help
[10:53:41 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> 3) a VM for decapod shouldn't be a problem, i'd like to try running it in debian first though since that's what is being used for other stable VMs
[10:54:01 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> so i'll document what i find and/or setup an ubuntu 9.10 VM for decapod
[10:54:12 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: not sure the impact of that since we're having issues with fussiness on decapod with even slight changes to setup
[10:54:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: you here?
[10:54:23 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yep
[10:54:51 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: how will the debian setup inform the ubuntu?
[10:55:16 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: you're welcome to try Debian, but we have never tried it.
[10:55:25 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> unless there's a specific tool that has a dependency on a version specific -dev library, building from source should work
[10:55:38 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ah
[10:55:47 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: we are building from specific versions.
[10:56:09 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.3+Installation+Script
[10:56:11 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> in fact, the more library agnostic the better imho, since others will end up trying to run it on various *nixes anyways? or is it intended just for ubuntu at the moment?
[10:56:20 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> shows all the depndencies etc.
[10:56:39 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: the grant says we'll package it up for ubuntu only
[10:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> those specific versions listed seem to be code that isn't in a repository though, i won't waste time on it, but if it works, running a stable version on debian would make me happy (wink)
[10:57:47 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> (smile)
[10:58:41 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: let us know how 1, 2. and 3 are all going – we'll be excited to know – and if i were to prioritize them i'd put decapod in first, then confluence, then whatever needs to be done to alfresco to keep it humming (wink) i feel bad that the list is so long!
[10:59:00 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Thanks jamon! Let us know when you have something running and we'll test it to make sure it's functioning as expected.
[10:59:32 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung: yeah that's the part i can't do. likely it will compile, but working properly, that's another matter entirely (tongue)
[11:00:34 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: "working properly" is a relative term these days. (big grin)
[11:03:20 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> haha, we'll see i guess
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[11:05:36 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: fyi, I'll be away wed - fri. So ping the channel and I'm sure someone from the Deca team can help with testing.
[11:06:23 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung: k
[11:06:30 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: is michelled around today?
[11:06:42 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: did you and jameswy get the cameras yesterday?
[11:07:01 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> jessm: Nope.
[11:07:07 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: no sign of michelled. Didn't see an email. No cameras.
[11:17:11 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o, you around?
[11:17:22 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: hello
[11:19:25 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> When you have the time, I'd appreciate if you could take a look at my drafted testplan for the login page of collectionspace, and give me some feedback on whether its has too much/little detail, etc
[11:19:38 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> http://wiki.collectionspace.org/x/8wL2AQ
[11:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: no rush at all! With you being the King and all, I figured feedback from you would be nice (smile)
[11:22:55 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> kasper: (smile) sure i'll take a look at it... i'm a bit pressed for time at the moment... but i'll try to get to it asap... please remind me if i don't get back to you though.
[11:23:58 EDT(-0400)] <kasper> Justin_o: Great thanks, but as I said, no rush.. I got other stuff to keep my busy meanwhile
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[11:30:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I've just opened http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3607 as a blocker
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[11:54:27 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm, jameswy, yura, and anyone else testing... i'm going to rebuild the daily build site now... please retest at least one of the reorderer examples if you have tested already.
[12:00:41 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay... the build site should be back up now
[12:41:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm, jameswy, yura1: Adding another blocker related to reorderer. It seems that there is a problem with the uPortal integrations demo
[12:41:02 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3609
[12:45:41 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Justin_o: how awful would it be if i didn't have time for testing today?
[12:45:48 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> now that the day is 1/2 over
[12:47:39 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jessm: not too awful
[12:47:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i don't think we would be able to finish today either way to be honest
[12:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> that's too bad
[12:49:08 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes... a bit unfortunate... but i guess i'm not totally surprised considering the jQuery upgrade and all ...
[12:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> we are running into a few problems here and there that
[12:59:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jameswy notified me that FLUID-3609 is actually a duplicate of FLUID-3592 and FLUID-3593
[12:59:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I've updated these to blockers
[13:02:54 EDT(-0400)] * denbuzze (~anonymous@ginger.caret.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fluid-work
[13:07:49 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> jessm, yura1, Justin_o: The reorderer is also pretty inconsistent when it comes to tabbing behavior--see FLUID-3590 for details on at least three different kinds of tabbing behavior, all three of which are unintuitive.
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[13:11:08 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon, jessm: there may be an issue with the Decapod demo server.
[13:11:53 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: jameswy has spotted a few bugs in the reorderer... i've set bosmon off on one... He's also noticed one at FLUID-3590
[13:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> maon, jessm: the demo server only has one instance. So if multiple users access it at the same time, unpredictable results will likely happen.
[13:12:08 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ^jamon
[13:12:33 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon, jessm: we don't know this for sure until the demo server is up, but michelled and I anticipate this being an issue.
[13:12:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Isn't Decapod a single-user application? What were you thinking a solution might be?
[13:13:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Gimme one second. I'm going to take a look at the SVN issue Bosmon just mentioned related to the FLUID-3527 branch merge
[13:13:25 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: michelled is looking into a solution right now. But we're all learning this stuff for the first time.
[13:13:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then I'll take a look at 3590
[13:13:53 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (~michelled@142.150.154.141) has joined #fluid-work
[13:14:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung, michelled: Off the top of my head, I don't see any really sensible solution to this issue.
[13:14:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I mean, so far, we've built Decapod as a single-user application.
[13:14:50 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: yes.
[13:15:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You could do something sort of odd, like have multiple instances of the application running at the same time, but what sense would this make to a user?
[13:15:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How would you route them to a particular instance, and how would you deal with "accumulating server state?"
[13:15:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Am I mistaken in assuming that deploying a Decapod demo server will be like a collaborative book project?
[13:15:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Everyone is working on the same book?
[13:16:09 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, but without the collaboration supports
[13:16:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Can you elaborate?
[13:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so imagine two users reordering pages without knowing the other person exists
[13:16:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> they are going to think the UI is insane
[13:16:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Indeed, that's exactly the sort of thing we can't prevent without scoping projects to users
[13:16:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And we have no concept of users
[13:17:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is it possible to create new book projects in Decapod 0.3?
[13:17:46 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> no
[13:18:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so there is just one Global Book
[13:18:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> THE Book
[13:18:35 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ^Yes for now... until we add multiple book support in the future.
[13:18:35 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yep
[13:18:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How do you persist state about a particular book?
[13:18:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> For example, the order of pages?
[13:19:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> funny you should ask that - there is no real persistence right now. We have global state saved in the cherry py server
[13:20:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Saved where, specifically?
[13:20:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Feel free to point me at code if it's easier
[13:20:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let the code do the talking (tongue)
[13:21:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/decapod/trunk/components/server/dserver.py
[13:21:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> see the 'images' array in the ImageController
[13:22:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, let me take a look
[13:22:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ControllerSchmontroller
[13:22:48 EDT(-0400)] * michelled hates showing code she knows should be fixed - especially when she knows how to fix it but time constraints don't allow her to
[13:23:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so it's application-wide state, as you say
[13:23:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I distinctly remember us talking about this, and how it needed to be taken care of before too long
[13:23:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: the post 0.3 plan was to move to a persistence strategy likely using CouchDB
[13:23:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Don't be embarrassed about the code, michelled. Well get it.
[13:24:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, for the record, app and session state are both tremendously problematic, and these issues show why
[13:24:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Our next naive step would be to come up with a "clever" solution
[13:24:30 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> colinclark, michelled, jhung: I'm confused. In the end, Decapod is a laptop running a single instance of the application (locally) with a single book. Where do multiple users even come into play?
[13:24:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Oh, well this must be what session state was made for."
[13:24:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> for one, it's in the demos jameswy
[13:25:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Boy, HTTP sure is broken, it can't remember anything about a user"
[13:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jameswy: A website where people can go and see an example of Decapod in action
[13:25:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Without having to download it and install a bajillion third-party dependencies onto their wicked Linux box
[13:25:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so michelled
[13:25:48 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> Ahhh, roger that.
[13:26:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We could hack this tremendously by introducing session state, but I'm not sure what good it would do us
[13:26:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We'd just be taking a step backward
[13:27:35 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yes. And the mock server is something we don't really want to be supporting.
[13:27:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes - which is how I've been feeling about the past month unfortunately. But I'm being a bit dramatic here - in the last month we got end to end integration which is nothing to be sneezed at
[13:27:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, I suspect it's actually something we want to be supporting with gusto
[13:28:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In that it will grow to be thing that allows us to test whole subsystems of our application without requiring the rest, jhung.
[13:28:35 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: the main reason I was considering this particular step back was so that jessm could show decapod to the 30 odd folks waiting to see something
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[13:29:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Sure, that makes sense
[13:29:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, let's walk through the concurrency use case step-by-step
[13:29:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and see what we can come up with
[13:29:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: it will grow nicely once we get some time to refactor - there is considerable duplication right now between the mockserver and real server.
[13:29:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think boyan copied the real server and then ripped out some the camera detection stuff
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[13:30:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, they need to be the same server (smile)
[13:30:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then, jhung, I guess your point is correct
[13:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Yeah, if we can get both into the same server then that would be ideal. Or at least in a way it's easier to maintain and make modifications.
[13:31:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[13:32:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Okay, so next steps...
[13:32:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm going to come into the office
[13:33:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's more ergonomic there than on my couch
[13:33:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Then let's talk through the concurrency use case step by step, jhung and michelled
[13:33:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then let's come up with a quick fix
[13:33:22 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sounds good
[13:33:29 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ok
[13:33:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm wondering if it might be enough to poll the server via AJAX periodically to sync things up
[13:33:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, see you all soon
[13:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: if you could coordinate with jamon to get the demo up we'll know better what we're up against too
[13:33:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Tell the King we'll talk about blockers in about half an hour
[13:34:01 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok
[13:35:43 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: at 10:53, jessm and jamon were talking about setting up the Decapod server in Debian.
[13:36:12 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> I haven't seen jamon active here since.
[13:39:19 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung, michelled, bak
[13:39:22 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> back even
[13:39:42 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon, phew. You saved me having to explain stuff in an email. (wink)
[13:40:06 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> what's up?
[13:40:17 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Any progress on the Decapod server?
[13:40:48 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> base image is built, have to boot it as a xen guest now
[13:41:01 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ok.
[13:41:13 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> There may be an issue with multiple users on that server. So we'd like to test it so we can figure out if we can fix it.
[13:41:19 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> process i use it to debootstrap a system into a chroot, then use that image as a xen filesystem
[13:41:29 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> multiple users, what do you mean?
[13:42:21 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Multiple users accessing the same demo server at the same time. Decapod was designed as a single user application. So multiple users manipulating the same set of images / reordering etc
[13:42:44 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> We don't know what the results will be like, and we're guessing it won't be pretty.
[13:43:12 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> oh that does sound messy, no session handling at all?
[13:43:29 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> nope.
[13:43:50 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> We're hoping to figure something that at least prevents the problem. Not necessarily fix it.
[13:43:51 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> i'd imagine using tmp directories with a sessionid as a part or all of the name would help
[13:44:08 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> or a 16bit uuid or something
[13:44:54 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> good idea.
[13:46:45 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Let us know when the server is up so we can see what happens if multiple users pound on it at the same time.
[13:47:02 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> We may end up asking you to help making an update to the code to fix anything that breaks.
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[14:22:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, michelled and jhung
[14:22:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let's rock it
[14:22:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, a question that occurred to me on the subway:
[14:22:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What happens when a user clicks the "Take Picture" button?
[14:23:41 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> in the mockserver two of the 5 test page images are selected and stitched into a spread
[14:24:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> these test images are copied into the 'capturedImages' dir where the UI will look for them
[14:24:29 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> they are also added to the global images array that keeps track of the pages in the book
[14:24:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> urls to them - not the actual images (wink)
[14:25:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so the images themselves are app-wide as well, then?
[14:25:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[14:25:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Each user is literally working on the exact same book in tandem
[14:25:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok
[14:25:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> there is only the concept of a single book
[14:25:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, I had a clever solution, but this will be a problem I think
[14:25:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so michelled...
[14:26:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If we really wanted to isolate each user, we could certainly generate a unique user token and store it as a cookie
[14:26:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then key all state from this token.
[14:26:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So for the global "images" array, we could turn it into a map, and store image references separately
[14:26:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The real question then becomes this "capturedImages" dir
[14:27:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How trivial would it be to create a separate capturedImages dir for each user?
[14:27:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Setting aside the question of when and how to clean such a thing up
[14:28:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> unfortunately not trivial and likely not worth doing - more walking backwards
[14:28:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> there are several places in both the UI component and the server that work under the expectation of that captured images directory
[14:28:43 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I believe jhung tried to rename it and ran into enough issues that he backed out his changes
[14:28:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> but you suggestion would actually appear to work for the users
[14:29:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: you're right, we did change the image directory at one point, but the client was expecting the images from a particular location.
[14:29:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so
[14:29:55 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark loves that phrase
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[14:30:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so.
[14:30:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> it's possible that we give each user a unique directory to play in. We'll need to fix the client to properly use the directories.
[14:30:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That's roughly what I was suggesting, jhung. It sounds like that isn't feasible. Is that right, michelled?
[14:31:20 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's just that it's enough work that I'd rather fix the problem correctly then spend time on this
[14:31:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Fair enough
[14:31:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So let's talk about ris
[14:31:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> risk
[14:31:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What I'm hearing from michelled is that addressing any kind of non-global scope is too much work to get done over the next few hours
[14:32:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And I think it's time for us to release this puppy
[14:32:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's cute, just a bit tiny
[14:32:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And like all puppies, a bit messy
[14:32:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Right, jessm?
[14:32:43 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> puppies?!
[14:32:50 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> lol
[14:32:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[14:33:11 EDT(-0400)] * jhung note to self, to get jessm's attention mention puppies.
[14:33:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So jhung and michelled, can we actually set up an instance of Mock Decapod The Puppy, and try it out?
[14:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: jamon is working on that.
[14:34:10 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> otherwise we can have it run locally and set two browsers on it.
[14:34:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> +1 try The Puppy!
[14:34:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Isn't it just something we can fire up on our machines?
[14:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: ^
[14:35:14 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: assuming we have a server configured. Jamon was working on it. afaik, it's almost done.
[14:35:55 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> so right now we only have our local copies running in ubuntu.
[14:36:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of...
[14:36:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Can we just boot that up and pass around an IP address.
[14:37:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled just drew a diagram on the whiteboard
[14:37:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And she's claiming that "half concurrency" might do the trick
[14:37:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Do you have a static IP address?
[14:37:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm sure michelled can probably connect to the wire and get one if not
[14:38:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So "half concurrency," michelled, means that we would store separate references to images for each "user," but allow Decapod to just write over the same images over and over again on the file system.
[14:38:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Meaning, everyone has the same pool of images underneath, but that's fine since it's always drawing from a static pool of available images anyway.
[14:38:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Am I understand thing correctly?
[14:39:10 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: no static IP, and my firewall is a bit domineering. (wink)
[14:39:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Okay, michelled is looking into setting her server up so we can Try The Puppy
[14:39:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> She's already hooked up to the wire, so it should just be a few minutes
[14:39:55 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> k.
[14:40:18 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: you are understanding correctly
[14:40:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[14:41:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, here's what I'm thinking we should do:
[14:41:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> http://142.150.154.119:8080/capture
[14:41:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. Set up the Puppy
[14:41:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Okay, michelled just did that (tongue)
[14:41:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. Try it out under the current implementation and assess how bad it is
[14:41:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. If desired, try to scope image references to a unique user token (UUID, probably) and update the ImageController accordingly
[14:41:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 4. Try it out again
[14:42:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, I'm starting to take some pictures now
[14:42:20 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sounds like a good plan colinclark
[14:42:27 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> taking pictures too
[14:42:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ooh, cute Puppy
[14:42:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I've now taken two pictures
[14:42:41 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> I have 3 pairs on my screen
[14:42:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And only see those two
[14:42:49 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> 4 now
[14:43:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, now i've reordered so that my 3-4 is at the top
[14:43:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then suddenly it popped back
[14:43:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> i took 2 picture and deleted 1
[14:43:43 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ahhh... refreshing causes some interesting stuff.
[14:43:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm basically seeing that Reordering doesn't work at all
[14:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> btw, we should be preventing the default action on all JS handlers to avoid the # getting added to our URLs
[14:44:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Refreshing seems to sync us all up again
[14:44:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> but the thumbnails are no longer thumbnails
[14:44:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> is that known issue jhung? I never noticed it before
[14:44:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes, that's right
[14:44:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> interesting
[14:45:01 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> reordering bug is known.
[14:45:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> they're monstrous when dragging the
[14:45:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Can you elaborate?
[14:45:13 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> the loss of thumbnail is new
[14:45:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Reordering just doesn't work in this release, is that what you mean, jhung?
[14:45:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: are you sure reordering isn't working? the pages get renumbered when they are moved
[14:45:53 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> there's a bug in drag and drop where the container doesn't scroll. Is that what you're seeing colinclark?
[14:46:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> oooooh
[14:46:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> no, i see what it is
[14:46:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The pages get renumbered
[14:46:21 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> when I was QAing reordering with real pictures that I'd taken it was easier to tell that it actually worked
[14:46:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I have no user-y cue that reordering actually worked
[14:46:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We should probably somehow highlight an image that was successfully dragged
[14:46:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it's quite confusing
[14:46:44 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yes. We should be doing some sort of transition to make it clear.
[14:46:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm sure real pictures are better
[14:47:02 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> or some other unique identifier.
[14:47:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But still, with a book full of continuous text , I imagine the pages start to look the same
[14:47:18 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ^yep.
[14:47:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, cool
[14:47:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> {color}
[14:47:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So this thumbnail issue is an interesting
[14:49:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It looks to me like things generally "work" even in a concurrent situation
[14:49:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Now, it does look like deleting images may cause some problems
[14:49:43 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yes. As long as the user does not refresh their screen.
[14:52:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so this is getting sort of interesting
[14:53:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I now, somehow, have a broken image showing up at the top
[14:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> When I try to delete it, I get a 500 error from the server
[14:53:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then it goes away
[14:53:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If I refresh, it returns
[14:53:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> These RESTful URLs are really excellent, by the way
[14:53:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Everything makes sense--so much easier to debug
[14:55:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I found the bug which uses the full images instead of thumbnails on refresh
[14:55:19 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> line 195 in Capture.js
[14:55:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: cool
[14:55:26 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it should 'thumb' instead of 'spread'
[14:55:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, makes sense
[14:55:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How will fixing it impact QA?
[14:56:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Or should we refrain?
[14:56:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> refrain.
[14:56:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This Puppy is starting to get cranky being kept indoors
[14:56:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[14:56:58 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> If we start down the road of fixing easy bugs, we may as well do 0.4. (wink)
[14:57:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[14:57:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, can we take another look at how bad concurrency will be?
[14:57:23 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> do you want me to restart the server?
[14:57:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm a bit worried about this "stuck image"
[14:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Sure, why not
[14:57:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I suppose we should try to be a bit more systematic
[14:57:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, let's start like this:
[14:58:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. michelled takes a picture
[14:58:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. jhung takes a picture
[14:58:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. michelled takes another picture
[14:58:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 4. michelled reorders the second picture above the first picture
[14:58:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 5. jhung takes a picture
[14:58:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 6. jhung deletes the picture he just took
[14:58:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 7. jhung takes another picture
[14:58:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 8. michelled deletes her second picture
[14:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Something like that (tongue)
[14:59:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> looks good - let's add:
[14:59:15 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ok. michelled. Tell me when you're done 1.
[14:59:18 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 9. colinclark loads up capture
[14:59:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 10. colinclark takes a picutre
[14:59:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok 1. is done - I have 1 picture on my page
[15:00:19 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> done 2. One image on my screen.
[15:00:42 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 3. Two images on my screen
[15:01:07 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 4. Images are reordered
[15:01:32 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> done 5. 2 spreads on my screen.
[15:01:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> what order, jhung
[15:01:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ?
[15:02:16 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> doh. just deleted the 2nd image.
[15:02:33 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> let's see what happens when I do #7.
[15:02:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ack
[15:02:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[15:04:02 EDT(-0400)] * croby (~croby@c-24-128-197-96.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[15:04:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> croby: bang (smile)
[15:04:22 EDT(-0400)] <croby> jessm: there we go
[15:04:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> bang?
[15:04:31 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: bang (smile)
[15:04:41 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> done 7. on my screen: 1-2 = pages 5 and 6. 3-4 = pages 6 and 3? (starts with "lighted by it").
[15:04:55 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: croby is just poking into fluid irc – figuring out ways to ping each other
[15:05:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> cool
[15:05:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey, croby
[15:05:05 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> croby: apparently when people say puppies I also pay attention
[15:06:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 8. I have a single spread on my page
[15:06:04 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's the one I expect
[15:06:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, my turn
[15:06:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> done 8. I see two images in this order: 1-2 is "lighted", 3-4 is "The"
[15:06:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And, for the record, I don't see real thumbnails. I get big things.
[15:07:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So all users who visit this demo, except the first, will never see thumbnails in the right-hand side
[15:07:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And reordering will be mangled.
[15:08:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> done 10. Three images in this order: 1-2 is "lighted", 3-4 is "The" and 5-6 is some nice tiny thumbnail, "Other wars"
[15:08:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So this is pretty decent, with the exception of the thumbnail bug
[15:08:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think we need to come up with a reordering test case to be sure
[15:08:50 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so, I'm thinking I should fix the bug locally and we should play with reordering
[15:09:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Let's start with the latter first
[15:09:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 1. michelled takes 3 pictures
[15:09:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think we should probably also restart the Decapod demo server on a nightly basis
[15:09:43 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 2. michelled moves the last picture to the first position
[15:10:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> croby: this channel is logged – you can see the url for the logs in the topic bar – we were discussing the Infusion release earlier
[15:10:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 3. jhung loads up capture
[15:11:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 4. jhung moves the first images to the last position
[15:11:33 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 5. michelled moves the second image to the first position
[15:11:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 6. colinclark loads up capture
[15:11:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, sounds good
[15:12:11 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> k
[15:12:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled is going to stop and restart the Deca server
[15:13:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 1 - I have 3 spreads on my screen
[15:15:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 2. images in the order 4-5, 0-1, 2-3 (those are numbers in the files names which I can see with firebug)
[15:16:22 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: you're up
[15:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> loading screen.
[15:17:11 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> 3 spreads on my screen.
[15:17:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> nubmers?
[15:17:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> looking now.
[15:18:02 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> spread 1: image4-image5-thumb
[15:18:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> spread 2: image0-image1-thumb
[15:18:48 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> spread 3: image2-image3
[15:19:09 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> now going on to 4.
[15:19:39 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> done 4, now checking images...
[15:20:18 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> 0-1, 2-3, 4-5
[15:20:38 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> done. michelled, you're up.
[15:21:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> done 5. order: 0-1, 4-5, 2-3
[15:22:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> done 6.
[15:22:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Four images
[15:23:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> #1: 0-1
[15:23:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> #2: 4-5
[15:23:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> #3: 2-3
[15:23:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's actually only three images there, I just can't count
[15:24:10 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so each of us got what we expected
[15:24:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If I refresh, I do indeed see michelled's thumbnail fix
[15:24:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sneaky!
[15:24:44 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sorry - I just wanted to see if I was correct
[15:25:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> but I won't sneak it into the release - unless I get permission (wink)
[15:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so this works under a basic set of assumptions.
[15:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> hardly a blocker. (wink)
[15:25:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think it's probably okay.
[15:25:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'd argue that the Reordering issue is probably a showstopper
[15:25:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If we're not showing thumbnails, then users will get these giant drag avatars
[15:25:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And as I say, it appears that all users but the first will see non-thumbnails
[15:26:24 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ok
[15:26:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Thoughts, michelled, jhung and jessm
[15:26:43 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Can I see it without the fix?
[15:27:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sure - one sec
[15:27:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So jessm, just to fill you in:
[15:27:27 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> refresh now jhung
[15:27:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There is a bug in how we display thumbnails in Decapod
[15:27:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Any user who comes to look at the demo, except for the first user, will not see thumbnails
[15:28:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And when they try to drag and drop images, they will have huge, unwieldy avatars, giving them an impression of brokenness.
[15:28:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> who is the first user?
[15:28:44 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> first user ever or first to show up when there are concurrent connections?
[15:28:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: This is the case of a demo
[15:28:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it will be the first user each day
[15:28:57 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled. got it. thanks.
[15:28:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So it'll be the first visitor ever to the demo server
[15:29:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Each day if we restart it
[15:29:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> since we'll restart the server each night
[15:29:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[15:29:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jinc
[15:29:09 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jinx
[15:29:35 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> eek
[15:29:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: thoughts?
[15:29:57 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so, we can make that clear when we sent out the email
[15:30:02 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> So two issues: large dragging thumbnails is pretty bad user-facing problem.
[15:30:03 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i'll tell you who the first demo user will be though
[15:30:09 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Second, is the reordering sync.
[15:30:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: Me?
[15:30:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> (smile) john burns
[15:30:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[15:30:26 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: what's the reordering issue?
[15:30:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: I'm advocating that we fix the thumbnail bug
[15:30:33 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> numbering?
[15:30:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled has already shown the fix
[15:30:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We'll have to run a small QA re-test
[15:30:49 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i'm getting a QA blister (smile)
[15:30:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[15:30:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: You should talk
[15:31:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You haven't had to take twenty pictures with the slow capture algorithm
[15:31:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[15:31:11 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm getting a tagging 0.3 blister
[15:31:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> well, i have no right – i haven't tested this at all!
[15:31:20 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> michelled: i know!
[15:31:25 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok, so blisters all around
[15:31:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm getting a blister blister
[15:31:33 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> what's the time cost to the fix?
[15:31:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Enough blistering, already
[15:31:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: The fix is seconds to put into place
[15:31:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled can weigh in on QA cost
[15:31:58 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> oh, well, this is a no-brainer – let's do it gang!
[15:32:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So "seconds" meaning about 10 minutes, I imagine
[15:32:06 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> to fix
[15:32:08 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung, michelled: http://142.150.154.37:8080
[15:32:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> to text is more $
[15:32:18 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> test
[15:32:19 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung, michelled: who wants login credentials?
[15:33:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: What was the other issue you mentioned?
[15:33:18 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: You can pass them to me and colinclark.
[15:33:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[15:33:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I am credential-averse
[15:33:31 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> who is physically present today?
[15:33:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: Turn around (wink)
[15:33:48 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> rofl.
[15:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> omw (tongue)
[15:34:17 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> i'm off the grid tomw.
[15:34:33 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> DECA-94 is the thumbnail bug
[15:34:51 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so, we're fixing deca-94, right?
[15:34:57 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: what is the numbering issue?
[15:35:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: sorry, reordering
[15:36:13 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> It's when multiple users use the same data and do their own magic in their browser.
[15:36:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: is this the sort of bug we can fix for the next release?
[15:36:36 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> for the demo?
[15:37:27 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: I don't know if there's an easy fix for the reordering issue, unless somehow we can get unique sandboxes for each visiting user.
[15:37:48 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> but that requires modifying the client code as well... (forgot about that).
[15:38:11 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: in short, not something doable in the next hour. (smile)
[15:38:23 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: yes ok
[15:38:45 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: michelled: what are the next steps then? are you talking to your physical neighbor?
[15:39:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: Sorry, I was chatting with jamon
[15:39:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> About servers
[15:39:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lemme catch up, boss
[15:39:18 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: So basically we're going to have to warn users that refreshing the browser window would give them an update snapshot of the ordering done by other concurrent users.
[15:39:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, this one strikes me as no big deal
[15:39:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Harder to fix, and something substantially less likely to be encountered
[15:40:06 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: which is not expected behaviour. Just going to be a surprise since the user will expect either a blank slate or their own ordering.
[15:40:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> No one will be pretending the Deca demo is a real book
[15:40:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> right
[15:40:18 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok
[15:40:20 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> sounds good
[15:40:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I imagine they'll be fine with it changing if they go away and come back (or refresh the browser)
[15:40:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So:
[15:40:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> +1 for fixing the thumbnail bug
[15:40:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> -1 for fixing the larger issue of concurrency in the demo
[15:40:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is that the consensus?
[15:41:15 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yep
[15:42:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, Justin_o
[15:42:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let's talk Infusion 1.2
[15:42:19 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yes
[15:42:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So you sent me two JIRAs:
[15:42:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3610
[15:42:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3590
[15:42:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: The first one, FLUID-3610 looks like a textbook definition of a blocker to me
[15:43:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Can't tab out of the jQuery UI Slider in UI Options"
[15:43:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> a. It affects all platforms
[15:43:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> b. It prevents a portion of our audience from successfully using UI Options
[15:43:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Does that sound about right, Justin_o?
[15:44:51 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> colinclark: not working with wsgi, needs something like this: http://tools.cherrypy.org/wiki/ModWSGI
[15:45:16 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: the fix for DECA-94 is in
[15:45:31 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> should I retag? or do you want to QA off trunk first?
[15:46:00 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> let me retest first.
[15:46:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: Meaning, Decapod is not working with WSGI at the moment?
[15:47:02 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> colinclark: with apache's mod_wsgi, essentially, it's using cherrypy's built in dev environment
[15:47:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok
[15:47:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So we need to change the Decapod server before we can work with WSGI, yes?
[15:49:21 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: not seeing any changes. I'm at revision 9807.
[15:49:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> make sure your browser isn't cachine
[15:49:55 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> trying to update SVN. no changes apparently.
[15:50:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> 9807 was just committed
[15:50:35 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> to trunk
[15:50:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> are you looking at the tag?
[15:50:39 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> k
[15:52:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is FLUID-3610 a regression from 1.1.2?
[15:53:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes... I think it is a blocker and it is a regression... it came along with the jQuery upgrade
[15:53:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[15:53:12 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> colinclark: yeah, not gonna work without some changes, e.g. there's output going to stdout from somewhere in the application, mod_wsgi doesn't allow that
[15:53:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> FLUID-3590 looks a little less cut and dry
[15:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: Ok. I'll put it at the top of our 0.4 list, and we'll have to go without WSGI support for this particular release
[15:53:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's a totally drag, but are you okay with this?
[15:54:02 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> colinclark: timeline?
[15:54:11 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> release like, tomorrow?
[15:54:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Release 0.3 later today or early tomorrow
[15:54:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Put WSGI support on the list for 0.4 next month
[15:54:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Seem okay?
[15:55:48 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> well i don't want to get in the way, but it isn't ideal, without knowing the codebase i can't say if it would be a quick fix or not
[15:56:04 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: FLUID-3590 was in 1.1.2 by the looks of it and it does happen in firefox as well
[15:56:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: It's less a question of how long the fix will take, and more one of timelines
[15:56:22 EDT(-0400)] <greggy> there will be time after the deadline to work out some additional details, and time when the project starts to refine things further
[15:56:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: how's it going?
[15:57:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: QA takes quite a bit of time, and we've run through the plan several times in the past few days
[15:57:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> First releases are always hardest, and I really want to get this one out the door
[15:57:24 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: had some technical problems with my cameras.
[15:57:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'd even be fine with a mini-WSGI release immediately following this one
[15:57:32 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Give me a sec...
[15:57:45 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> colinclark: where does it log to? i have it sort of starting: http://142.150.154.37/capture
[15:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: FLUID-3590 maybe safari and FF 3.6
[15:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: I'd have to defer to michelled on that. I've barely seen the Deca code yet
[15:58:25 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: does not seem to work for me locally.
[15:59:43 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: what's not working?
[15:59:55 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> The large thumbnail fix.
[16:00:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: and you're using trunk?
[16:00:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> yes
[16:00:44 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> oh... wait.
[16:00:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> and your browser isn't cacheing?
[16:00:56 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> no.
[16:00:58 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Shoot. Yes I'm in the tag.
[16:01:04 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> (brain is mush)
[16:01:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's been a long haul
[16:01:37 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> grabbing trunk now...
[16:08:07 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: Deca-94 is confirmed fixed.
[16:08:31 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok, I'll retag
[16:08:42 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> k
[16:11:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: retagging complete
[16:12:07 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> excellent.
[16:12:15 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> So we'll need to get this change onto the demo server.
[16:16:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I have to go unfortunately... i was just looking at the stuff with jameswy... and the safari cases are slightly different... i was able to loop around with using option-tab but would get stuck between two elements just tabbing... for james the opposite was true... he is using 10.5 vs 10.6 that i have
[16:17:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> very, very odd
[16:18:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: indeed...,
[16:20:38 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: I just set http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3610 as a blocker
[16:20:42 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung: getting this message when running mockserver.py: "GtkWarning: could not open display"
[16:20:50 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (~Justin@142.150.154.171) has left #fluid-work
[16:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung: it looks like gtk is requiring a graphical framebuffer, e.g. in your case a desktop environment (gnome)
[16:22:08 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> ah...
[16:22:13 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> that's not good.
[16:23:04 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> my guess is that if you were to run it anywhere without a desktop environment, the same error would crop up, researching a little more now
[16:24:10 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon, thanks!
[16:25:09 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm, michelled, colinclark: looks like the server may not run without a desktop environment. We're requiring it somehwere in the code.
[16:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon is looking into it now, but we should discuss options.
[16:25:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think it's in the thumbnail generation - that's my guess
[16:25:58 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: so, the demo won't work at all really?
[16:26:40 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> not sure how this problem affects the demo.
[16:26:51 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> The server is down currently so I can't see the effects.
[16:27:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> oh, i see, server w/o desktop environment – when would a user encounter that though?
[16:29:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> if they were to go to our demo server unfortunately jessm
[16:30:48 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> michelled: is this demo a good idea?
[16:30:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> we need to push this out
[16:31:27 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so what would we be pushing out?
[16:31:54 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: source code and documentation.
[16:32:01 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so, if i understand correctly then this will affect the demo only?
[16:32:13 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes
[16:32:23 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> possibly. The effects are unknown at the moment though.
[16:32:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, I'm just catching up
[16:33:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This is starting to feel messy
[16:33:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> the Puppy wants out
[16:33:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Here's an idea:
[16:33:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let's ship 0.3 and make a really hot screencast
[16:33:30 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> screenshots
[16:33:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[16:33:40 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> video dies the minute it goes off the lot!
[16:33:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm is bitter about video
[16:33:56 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> grrrrrr
[16:34:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Despite that we still have an old video on fluidengage.org and no link to the nice working version of the app (tongue)
[16:34:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, I'll buy screenshots
[16:34:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Lots of them
[16:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Nice ones, with descriptions
[16:34:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> A bit of a Screenshot Narrative
[16:34:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And we let the Puppy out
[16:34:45 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: as of last week jameswy ditched the vid on fluidengage.org and put up a screenshot!
[16:34:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> glarg
[16:34:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Try a link!
[16:34:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> lol
[16:34:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[16:35:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so, screenshots?
[16:35:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The next question is "who, and when?"
[16:35:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yes
[16:35:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> it's fine with me - I can do them tomorrow but you know I'm not skilled with the verbage
[16:36:00 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> so someone will have to help
[16:36:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: You're away the rest of the week, right?
[16:36:10 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: That's the plan.
[16:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> I can pitch in, but I've made appts. already.
[16:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: I'll gonna be away for most of tomorrow, but could probably help with words for an hour or two
[16:37:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> No worries
[16:37:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung: Take the time off, we'll get this stuff ready
[16:37:25 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> michelled: i can help a bit tomorrow
[16:37:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let continue with our release preparations
[16:37:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jameswy: How's your day looking tomorrow?
[16:38:13 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> colinclark: Nothing immediately pressing--what's up?
[16:38:23 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ah - jameswy would be perfect!
[16:38:24 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> (smile)
[16:38:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How'd you like to lend a hand with creating a bit of an "intro to Decapod" set of screenshots
[16:38:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ?
[16:38:45 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: let's time-box this
[16:38:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[16:38:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "Let's time box this"
[16:39:02 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> Sure thing. Let me know what's involved.
[16:39:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> End of day tomorrow seems like a good solid deadline
[16:39:27 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm, colinclark, michelled, jameswy: Btw, you can use the decapod 0.3 user guide as a start. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.3+User+Guide
[16:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jameswy: we can take the screen shots together and talk about what they should say
[16:40:05 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> michelled: Sounds like a plan.
[16:40:14 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> hmmm... wait - do we actually need more the what jhung has already don?
[16:40:28 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung, michelled: update, python-matplotlib seems to be using a gtk backend, does gtkagg sound familiar?
[16:40:46 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jamon: sounds like ocropus.
[16:41:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> or maybe the stitching code Thomas wrote
[16:41:24 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> matplotlib was a dependency before stitching was written.
[16:41:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jhung's page looks pretty nice, and the screenshots are great
[16:41:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Perhaps we'll just want to distill some of this into a more digestible form
[16:41:55 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jhung: this describes the problem pretty well i think: http://old.nabble.com/Error-when-running-code-on-remote-machine:-how-can-I-overpass-this--td21224501.html
[16:42:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Focussed on "what can it do, and how would I use it?"
[16:42:03 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> colinclark: agreed. there's a lot of info in the user guide.
[16:42:40 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Jamon, can you summarize the problem in an email? This will need to be addressed by the guys who handle the ocropus / IUPR code.
[16:42:58 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> to fluid-work and you can fwd jhung?
[16:43:10 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> sure!
[16:43:14 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> k
[16:45:27 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: how can you forward if you're out wed-fri?
[16:45:42 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> or is this an immediate email?
[16:46:05 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> I have bandwidth for some email.
[16:46:14 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok
[16:47:35 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm, michelled, colinclark, jameswy: so we're good on what to do for the release? Seems weird that I'm going to be away when it happens.
[16:48:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: i think i understand
[16:48:46 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> tomorrow jameswy and michelled are going to put together some nice screenshots and narrative
[16:48:50 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> then release, yes?
[16:48:59 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> where release means send out an e-mail
[16:49:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> pointing at everything
[16:49:11 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yes
[16:49:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jamon will continue to try to get a demo working but no longer has a release blocker
[16:49:39 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled: links to the "Online Demo" need to be removed from the Decapod 0.3 Release page and sub pages.
[16:50:27 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'll switch to helping with infusion release or working on cspace while jameswy takes the heavy lifting of screenshots + narrative
[16:50:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> jhung: ok
[16:51:17 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> michelled, jhung: if I need more screenshots, how do I do it?
[16:51:29 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Use jacob's old machine.
[16:52:57 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jameswy: is that what you meant?
[16:53:00 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> on what machine?
[16:53:52 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> jessm, jhung: yep, thanks!
[16:54:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jameswy: jhung: michelled: so we have clarity about what needs to happen to release tomorrow?
[16:54:22 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and we're all ok with it?
[16:54:26 EDT(-0400)] <jameswy> Yep.
[16:54:43 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> michelled: ?
[16:54:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: +1 from me
[16:56:06 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> cool! We'll have to celebrate somehow next week.
[16:56:16 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Perhaps by smashing some bugs. (big grin)
[16:56:43 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> is michelled ok with this – ?
[16:57:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yep