fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-08-18

[08:11:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana looking at your vid player now - email soon
[08:12:00 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> heidi_: ok great
[08:12:07 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I'm writing some docs atm
[08:24:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I've created a blocker for that Table of Contents bug we talked about yesterday: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4401 Not sure who to assign it to...
[09:50:27 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: is it me or there's no class in FSS to put the text in italic?
[09:50:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana, checking...
[09:50:51 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac: cheers
[09:52:11 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> except the em element
[09:52:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana, you are correct. we have styles for bold and underline, but nothing for italic. Odd... heidi_, were you aware of this? Do you think we should have one?
[09:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac Justin_o i believe 1.4 fss has it?
[09:53:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i recall it was on the list
[09:53:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> tho i'm guessing that's what you checked... so maybe it didn't happen
[09:53:48 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heid_, I can't find it in the latest code base... would it use some word other than "italic" ?
[09:55:08 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac yeah looks like it's not there. maybe 1.5 also want to add uppercase, lowercase, some other stuff
[09:55:45 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> heidi_: ok
[09:55:54 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> I jira that?
[09:56:55 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> anastasiac heidi_ should I had an issue on Jira?
[09:57:16 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> lahabana, sure, that would be great, thanks
[09:57:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> there might already be one, but if not, that would be great
[09:57:25 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> ok
[09:57:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana do you have a screen reader?
[09:57:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> are you on a mac or win machine
[09:58:00 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> no
[09:58:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> linux i think
[09:58:04 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> on mac
[09:58:24 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> can you recommend one?
[09:58:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana mac's come with a screen reader called voiceover
[09:58:39 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> ho true
[09:58:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> you can turn it on in your universal access preferences
[09:59:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> then view your video player with safari
[10:00:18 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> ok thx
[10:00:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana you can see there are some issues with the controls
[10:01:09 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> ok
[10:04:36 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> that's weird my voice over is in french but it's the english voice so it's not really understandable
[10:16:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ha, that is weird
[10:19:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> can someone help me with a JS question?
[10:20:00 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> heidi_: it's annoying to be honnest
[10:20:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana likely able to change it?
[10:20:46 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> no apparently there's no voice over in french
[10:20:54 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and my OS is in french
[10:21:13 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> but doesn't matter the indication on the bottom left corner
[10:21:24 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> are what is being said isn't it?
[10:22:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana yep
[10:22:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> can you switch safari to english temporarily?
[10:22:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> huslage: not sure if i can help, but i can try
[10:23:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana looks like french is supported? http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/
[10:24:46 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> well it's ok I'm dealing with it
[10:28:52 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> so heidi_ : tell if you have found anything else than:
[10:29:03 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> the scrubber and the times are hard to select
[10:29:28 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> both sliders lack of content
[10:29:44 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and the menu is really hard to use
[10:30:02 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> have you found something else?
[10:30:04 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> ho also
[10:30:10 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> the captions are not read
[10:33:47 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> btw heidi_ http://royalgiz.fr/videoplayer/docs/ if you want to have a quick look to what I've written for the doc so far
[10:35:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana yep those seem to be most of the issues - not much feedback or direction for the controls in general
[10:36:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana it might be nice to compare the voiceover experience when using jw controls
[10:36:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> they've done a great job
[10:36:23 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> yes I'll have a look
[10:49:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: do you have a minute to look at what i've done to try to fix the issue i was having with the select menu styling
[10:50:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o sure
[10:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks... can you take a look at this branch
[10:52:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> https://github.com/jobara/infusion/tree/FLUID-4370
[10:52:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> you can try out the UIO demo
[10:53:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> here
[10:53:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> here's an example of the part i made changes to https://github.com/jobara/infusion/blob/FLUID-4370/src/webapp/framework/fss/css/fss-theme-bw.css#L13-20
[10:53:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: ^
[10:54:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[10:54:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so you can see that i've added another class called fl-force-theme
[10:54:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> which when added to the same element as the theme class name... will give it extra specificity to win out
[10:54:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> let me know if this approach seems at all reasonable or not
[10:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> seems... a little weird
[10:55:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that's sort of what i was thinking too
[10:55:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> also what is inverted-color ?
[10:55:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it jus the best thing i could think of so far
[10:55:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> ah
[10:55:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. so that's something else
[10:55:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so basically in all of the contrast themes you have cases where you really want the opposite
[10:56:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> instead of black on yellow you need yellow on black
[10:56:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> to highlight something or etc.
[10:56:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so this way we don't have to duplicate the styles
[10:56:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah, i guess as long as it's useful that makes sense
[10:56:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> the downside is that you have to make sure you include both themes
[10:56:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but this would likely be the case i think
[10:57:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and we've renamed the themes to whiteBlack and blackWhite ?
[10:57:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yep
[10:57:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> james thought they should all be consistent.. which makes sense.. so everything is by, yb, bw, wb
[10:58:11 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> heidi_: I'm having an issue with voice over and anchors
[11:00:09 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> do you know what I need to put so it's read by voiceover?
[11:00:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o how would a med-contrast theme be named... greyGrey?
[11:00:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: mabye grayGrey
[11:00:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o>
[11:00:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ha
[11:01:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yah james was thinking about that a bit too, but figured we'd deal with that when we came to it
[11:01:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> lahabana there seems to be a general inconsistency with how the controls are marked up. is there a reason why some are labels and not buttons?
[11:02:12 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> also i see jw player controls uses the button names to help reflect value.... like "turn mute off" and "turn mute on" depending on the value
[11:02:31 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> yes I've jsut changed to that
[11:02:40 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> for buttons and checkbox
[11:02:47 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> it's more a matter of state
[11:02:59 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o so i think my verdict is fl-force-theme is weird
[11:03:38 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i think if we're gonna do something like this, maybe add to UIOptions.css instead of the theme itself, as it's a temporary hack
[11:04:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: hmm.. okay..
[11:04:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o not sure how it would be useful/understandable to theme users
[11:04:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: you think we won't need it for the rich select menues
[11:04:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: that i agree with
[11:05:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i'm hoping we can have a better solution when we switch to a rich dropdown widget
[11:05:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yes hopefully
[11:06:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o also maybe note it's a hack in the css
[11:17:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yes.. definitely a hack
[11:18:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'll move it over to the other file too
[14:10:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: hello
[14:10:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I'm looking at FLUID-4401
[14:10:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi
[14:10:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> O KINGG, live forever
[14:11:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I think I basically have it worked out.. so I've wrapped the onReady event in a call to document ready.. this way the ToC won't init till after the page is all there
[14:11:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> this way we know all the headers are added and the ToC template is in place
[14:11:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes
[14:11:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Do you want to show me how you did it?
[14:11:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> does that seem reasonable.. there's probably a bit of flicker now though
[14:12:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> sure.. one second.. just pushing it to my github repo now
[14:13:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> document.ready() is probably later than we need
[14:13:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah wait, I always misread this page
[14:13:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It is probably fine
[14:14:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> here's the commit in my branch
[14:14:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> https://github.com/jobara/infusion/commit/13b0ba6225d7a5a2519848dd16d5021412de73b9
[14:14:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah yes
[14:14:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, I think it would be much better if only ToC itself were delayed
[14:15:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Particularly to avoid the flicker you are mentioning
[14:15:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: there's flicker for the ToC to be rendered
[14:15:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> and i guess wait for it to scan the document for the headers
[14:15:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Actually yes, this is fine
[14:16:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Does it appear to resolve the issue?
[14:16:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: it does
[14:16:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> there's another problem though with an uncaught exception when you try to turn off ToC only with the Fat Panel version though
[14:17:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm testing this change with the changes from your FLUID-4397 branch now to see if is fixed with that
[14:18:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: okay.. so i think that second half of the issue is fixed with your FLUID-4397 branch changes
[14:18:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it seems to be working for me at least
[14:18:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What is the second half?
[14:18:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> when you turn off ToC you get an uncaught exception
[14:18:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What causes it
[14:20:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's coming from line 6497
[14:20:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm guessing it's from jquery and that has to do with getComputedStyle
[14:20:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah, that
[14:21:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i've tried it with your branch a few times now and it is working...
[14:21:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's cool
[14:22:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Was there another thing you wanted to talk about?
[14:23:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: okay.. i filed a pull request for that one.. and yes.. i have some more to chat about
[14:23:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: i've been working on FLUID-4370 for a bit
[14:24:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: here's my branch https://github.com/jobara/infusion/tree/FLUID-4370
[14:25:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> So basically I've started styling everything in the theme, giving all elements the theme specific color, background-color, and border-color by using the universal selector "*"
[14:26:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I've been able to address all of the side effects I've come across except for 1
[14:26:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> for the "Color & Contrast" select menu the individual options are supposed to have their own themes styles instead of the active themes
[14:27:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but since they will all have the same specificity which ever theme was add last in the head will win out
[14:27:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes
[14:27:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so you can get cases where some of them have the active theme's styles or all of them do
[14:27:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> depending on the current theme
[14:27:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You will just have to find a more specific styling rule to hit them
[14:27:56 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i addressed this by adding another level of specificity with another class name "fl-force-theme"
[14:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Although I may not be the person with the most expert opinion on that
[14:28:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o>
[14:28:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so there are some code side effects to this though
[14:28:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> let me show you something
[14:28:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Even though I did find the SITTH SPETHIFITHTHITY DIAGRAM
[14:28:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: that was a great diagram.. helped a lot
[14:28:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o>
[14:28:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon>
[14:28:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, you are attacking this problem with the force of two Darth Vaders
[14:29:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm puzzled this has any code effects though
[14:29:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Aren't these purely styling selectors?
[14:29:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: they are, but we have to add the styles some how.. and option elements don't appear in the template
[14:29:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> https://github.com/jobara/infusion/blob/FLUID-4370/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/js/UIEnhancer.js#L142-148
[14:30:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, can't you just apply a CSS rule that hits them from their parent?
[14:30:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The code really shouldn't get involved in this kind of issue
[14:30:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You should just apply another "*" rule that has greater specificity
[14:31:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so you can see from that code
[14:31:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that i have to place it in there for it to take effect
[14:31:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hmm..
[14:31:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i wonder if i could have done something like this instead
[14:31:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think it would be best if you removed the force-theme classes from the code
[14:32:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This is an issue that arose purely from the styling domain, and it should be addressed there if possible
[14:33:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: here are the styles https://github.com/jobara/infusion/blob/FLUID-4370/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/css/UIOptions.css#L229-239
[14:33:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: heidi_ recommended that they shouldn't be part of the themes themselves.. since they are just overrides.. and we should think of something better when we have the proper rich select menues
[14:33:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> menus
[14:34:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so i had originally had them in the themes and that's why i needed the fl-force-theme class.. but that's probably not necessary if they are uio specific overrides
[14:34:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i guess i could just add an element style like option.fl-theme-bw
[14:34:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that would probably also work and get rid of the code part
[14:35:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You should just write a rule that looks as much as possible like the genuine styling rule
[14:35:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Otherwise it will become difficult to maintain
[14:35:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. i'll try something out
[14:36:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Shouldn't this go into the theme file?
[14:36:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Otherwise it will be truly impossible to maintain
[14:40:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Each theme should manage its own "force" rules
[14:41:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And so there should really be no mention of "options" in them
[14:57:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: hmm heidi_ didn't think it was really relevant to a theme
[14:58:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i just don't think a theme user would understand what it does, or have a need for it. it seems like a specific hack for UIO
[14:58:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and not a great one... so one that will likely be replaced in upcoming versions when we use a better rich dropdown widget
[15:00:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It needs to go in the theme file, all the same
[15:03:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon, heidi_: I'm about to head out for the day.. so maybe we can bring it back up tomorrow
[15:03:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> heidi - imagine what the "adding a style to UIOptions" instruction sheet will look like
[15:03:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It will start to look almost as bad as "adding a new kind of option to UIOptions"
[15:05:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: can we have ants for FSS too?
[15:05:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - as far as possible...
[15:05:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, CSS only allows some kinds of modularity
[15:06:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Perhaps in the fullness of time we can build this kind of thing into our "CSS building tool" that michelled has been working on
[15:06:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, the core issue is I'm not really convinced that this requirement is a "hack"
[15:06:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean - the current implementation of meeting the requirement is a hack
[15:06:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: yes.. that is..
[15:07:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But actually, "displaying an isolated control styled with some of the colour aspects of a theme" is a fundamental new requirement on a theme
[15:07:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And it's not something that the dependency aspects of can be ignored
[15:07:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> in the future we will have a new widget, which may or may not help
[15:07:28 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> only if I get to rewrite the parser part
[15:07:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We can't have a model that says - "If you want to add this theme to UIOptions, hunt through the theme file until you find something that looks like part of a colour styling rule, and cut and paste the following modified version of it into the UIOptions main style sheet"
[15:08:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's a kind of unacceptable model
[15:08:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What we need to do is find out what the most generalised representative of this requirement is, and push it back onto the authors of themes themselves
[15:11:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Perhaps what goes in the theme file doesn't look exactly like what Justin_o has written... but I think we will find at the end of the day that some kind of thing needs to go into the theme file...
[15:11:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: you mean a general override?
[15:11:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We just need to figure out what the smallest possible thing can be, given the restrictions of what CSS and our pipelines for dealing with it are
[15:12:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - it sounds like this is a "category of thing" a bit like the thing we decided we needed, when we started to work on our "!important" generation pipeline
[15:12:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That is, a way of having a "version" of a theme which applies with different specificity to the way the standard theme operates
[15:13:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So perhaps in the fulness of time it should be dealt with by the same kind of method, that is, some kind of "automatic munging"
[15:13:23 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But still, the basic issue is that this kind of material "belongs with the theme" rather than "belonging with UIOptions"
[15:13:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: not sure how that would work though..
[15:13:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, let's concentrate on necessities first
[15:13:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Then we can figure out how to meet them...
[15:14:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I feel it is Shakespeare time again
[15:14:33 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://shakespeare.mit.edu/2henryiv/2henryiv.3.1.html
[15:14:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Are these things then necessities?
[15:14:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Then let us meet them like necessities:
[15:15:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon>
[15:15:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Firstly you need to think of what the simplest kind of rule you can write is, that is as independent as possible from the particular form of the control that UIOptions has