fluid-work IRC Logs-2008-02-01

[08:14:05 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas1-toronto09-1279475669.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[08:40:52 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas1-toronto09-1279534418.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
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[09:00:00 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas1-toronto09-1279534418.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[09:30:52 EST(-0500)] * clown (n=clown@user383.megabit.utoronto.ca) has joined #fluid-work
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[09:42:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Today we're a real open source project!
[09:42:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Anastasia is back and she walked into work today!
[09:43:34 EST(-0500)] * anastasiac (n=chatzill@142.150.154.190) has joined #fluid-work
[09:44:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> AC is back!!!
[09:49:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Antranig suggested that my laptop belongs in Oxford: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8129850@N02/2234505752/
[09:58:21 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Yes, today is snow, snow, freezing rain so we are all at home. Apparently they are closing the UofT campus at 11:00
[10:05:57 EST(-0500)] * jhung (n=Jon@H62.C195.cci.switchworks.net) has joined #fluid-work
[10:06:20 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Good morning everyone
[10:09:38 EST(-0500)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[10:10:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: 'morning, Jonathan.
[10:11:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I sent you an email about the Sun hardware. It is literally in the mail!
[10:14:48 EST(-0500)] <clown> good morning all. how many braved the weather to come in (looks like colin and anstasia at least – welcome back AC)
[10:15:21 EST(-0500)] <clown> quite the contrast from cuba, i imagine.
[10:23:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> clown: I'm actually at home, on a call with Chris Mackie.
[10:24:45 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Colin, I sent you a reply. It's mostly accurate. Just missing some of the extras.
[10:24:50 EST(-0500)] <clown> colinclark: oh, okay. quick question perhaps: was it actually you who committed the changes to Reorderer.js and portlets.js at 5:00pm yesterday, or was it michelle, or both? I'll pick this up with michelle
[10:25:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We both worked on it.
[10:25:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled_ can probably speak to it, since I'm slightly distracted at the moment.
[10:25:48 EST(-0500)] <clown> I think we are on the verge of colliding.
[10:26:20 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> In what way?
[10:26:20 EST(-0500)] <clown> michelled_: are you seeing the discussion with colin and I?
[10:26:27 EST(-0500)] <clown> ah, yes, you are.
[10:26:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> I just read it.
[10:28:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> What's the collision?
[10:29:06 EST(-0500)]

[10:29:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> That's a good thing!
[10:29:51 EST(-0500)] <clown> My changes to getVerticalSibling() did continue to work, but that's because it no longer depends on an orderable finder function.
[10:30:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Actually, I'm confused. We didn't change the layout handlers only the Reorderer. The layouthandler should still have the orderableFinder.
[10:30:30 EST(-0500)] <clown> someone changed portlets.js, and commented out the passing in of the orderableFinder function.
[10:31:29 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Ah! Right. Well in the case of the portlet layout handler there shouldn't be an orderable finder. The portletLayout is what knows what is orderable. It should generate the orderable list.
[10:32:09 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> I did check that the portlet code worked before committing.
[10:32:35 EST(-0500)] <clown> but it doesn't since getHorizontalSibling() still has a dependency on the orderfinder (phone's ringing)...
[10:34:53 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> I think you should put the passing of the orderable finder back in for now. It will be removed when the refactoring is complete.
[10:35:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Not to the reorderer - just to the layout handler.
[10:38:25 EST(-0500)] <clown> phone call over...catching up...
[10:39:41 EST(-0500)] <clown> well, the problem I ran into was loading the portlets.html and trying to move left/right with the cursor keys. foxbug reports the error "no orderable finder function".
[10:40:11 EST(-0500)] <clown> at first, I thought it was something I had done, but upon checking the build server, I got the same error.
[10:41:15 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Sorry. I thought I'd tested throughly. I guess not. Does that mean there are no automated tests for moving left and right? We should write those.
[10:42:37 EST(-0500)] <clown> I just looked: there are testGetRightSibling(), and testGetLeftSibling(), but they are not failing. we need better tests?
[10:43:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Clearly. If the functionality is completely broken then the tests should fail.
[10:45:21 EST(-0500)] <clown> anyhow, here is the potential collision. I've re-written getVerticalSibling() to not use an orderfinder but to use only the info in the layout object. visually, it leads to moving up and down a column and allow the selection of any portlet. Nonetheless, only certain moves are allowed (again, based on the layout/permissions data). But that sounds similar to what you are doing with selectables and moveables. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.
[10:48:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Not necessarily. Are you near committing at all? I've been trying to catch up on lists so I don't have anything new written yet. It might help if I could see what you've got.
[10:48:22 EST(-0500)] <clown> i committed my changes this morning.
[10:49:48 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> ok. so your concern was whether I would conflict with that commit? Or are you working on something else that you are worried about conflicting with?
[10:50:53 EST(-0500)] * barbara_ (n=barbara@142.150.154.104) has joined #fluid-work
[10:52:18 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> hi
[10:52:25 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Hi Barbara, nice to see you here!
[10:52:27 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> just trying this out
[10:52:31 EST(-0500)] <jhung> hey Barbara.
[10:53:32 EST(-0500)] <clown> the conflict is more conceptual. i'm worried that i'm doing similary to something that you are doing, but doing it in a completely different way. I was going to on an rewrite getHorizontalSibling() in the same style as getVerticalSibling() – use the layout data only.
[10:53:49 EST(-0500)] <clown> hi barbara. welcome
[10:54:11 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Yes, that makes complete sense. I was trying to work in a step by step manner. Eventually not passing items to the layout handler.
[10:54:14 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> so if i'm not looking at this window then i don't know if someone is talking to me is that correct
[10:54:54 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Babara: What system are you using?
[10:54:57 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> i'll check in occsasionally to see if anyone needs me
[10:55:02 EST(-0500)] <clown> so you do not you invision using "items" down in the PortletLayountHandler?
[10:55:11 EST(-0500)] <clown> sorry garbled...
[10:55:26 EST(-0500)] <jhung> barb: there should be an option to enable sounds, so you know when people mention your name.
[10:55:39 EST(-0500)] <clown> so you do NOT invision using "items" with their -able properties in the PortletLayountHandler?
[10:55:49 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> barbara_: if you preface your message with the person's nickname they will be notified. In Colloquy I think the default is that the icon bounces.
[10:56:15 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> oh ok. that will help then
[10:57:28 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> clown: I think the vision is that porletLayout will generate the items object for use with the reorderer. Since we get all the information we need from the server in the two objects.
[10:58:17 EST(-0500)] <clown> okay. will it use the items object internally? or is it too early to tell?
[10:58:44 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> not sure. It certainly doesn't have to.
[10:59:04 EST(-0500)] <clown> okay. i'll forge ahead then.
[10:59:14 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> cool
[10:59:23 EST(-0500)] <clown> thanks for you help.
[11:00:17 EST(-0500)] <clown> actually, i'll start by looking at those tests, and seeing why they don't fail.
[11:00:44 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Thanks. That would be great. I love tests that tell me when I screw up.
[11:18:06 EST(-0500)] <clown> michelled_: here's why the tests pass, roughly. the testRunner loads portletTestConstants.js, which includes a setup() and that initializes the layout handler with an orderablefinder function. but, if just portlets.html is loaded "standalone", that setup() isn't run, and portlets.js doesn't provide an orderable finder function.
[11:19:35 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> makes sense. Thanks for looking into it.
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[11:21:31 EST(-0500)] <clown> no problem.
[11:25:07 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> clown: Just catching up. This points to a larger problem we have to resolve. We have a lot of copy pasted, duplicated code for initializing components.
[11:25:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> The model I think I put forward with the Schedule shows how we should be putting initialization into JavaScript files and reusing that init code in both the example markup and the test code.
[11:26:59 EST(-0500)] <clown> i think michelle was trying to do that when she created 'portlets.js'.
[11:28:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Right.
[11:28:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We really have to be careful about never copy-pasting code.
[11:28:38 EST(-0500)] <clown> but there was still a question of how much of the test setup code (constants used only be the tests, fro example) should stay in the test constants file.
[11:28:51 EST(-0500)] <clown> right. never. famous last words.
[11:29:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[11:30:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Have you guys heard that Microsoft is trying to buy Yahoo!?
[11:32:00 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> wow, no.
[11:33:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Scary.
[11:36:37 EST(-0500)] <clown> so YUI will becomes an IE-only toolkit?
[11:37:13 EST(-0500)] <clown> perhaps they'll rewrite it in visual basic.
[11:37:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It will all be about Silverlight, I'm sure.
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[11:45:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Looks like I'm going to have to miss the standup meeting today.
[11:46:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll be looking at installing uPortal 3 on the daily build server today.
[11:46:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And then working on finishing up my keyboard accessibility library.
[12:01:04 EST(-0500)] * shaw-hanliem (n=chatzill@CPE000fb555b47b-CM001371142f4a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
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[12:03:32 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> hi, simonjb
[12:04:06 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> amazing what a snow day will do for the IRC room.
[12:04:10 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> anastasiac: ping
[12:04:35 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> simonjb - test again
[12:05:04 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled_: indeed!
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[12:05:50 EST(-0500)] <shaw-hanliem> test
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[12:06:30 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark: did you happen to hear anything from IMS about reaching finalist status in the Learning Impact Awards?
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[12:07:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Yep, we're in. Thanks for drafting that.
[12:08:03 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> no problem - TransformAble is also in
[12:08:09 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> Apparently, Jutta will be our representative
[12:08:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, exactly.
[12:08:32 EST(-0500)] <jhung> back in a bit. Lunch and baby duty
[12:14:19 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> wow - I've just skimmed over the commit logs for the last two weeks - you guys have been busy!! I can't wait to have a look at the code
[12:14:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[12:53:04 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> anastasiac: take a look at the whiteboard or FLUID-49 in JIRA and you'll see what we are all up to.
[12:53:17 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> will do - thanks for the pointer
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[14:14:40 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm looking at FLUID-49, and the majority of sub-tasks are still marked as Open, so it's difficult to assess what's in progress and who's working on it
[14:15:04 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> any chance that folks could update their issues, assigning them appropriately and marking them In Progress?
[14:17:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> good point.
[14:17:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I will mark mine.
[14:17:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> If I can ever get to the point of being In Progress.
[14:28:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I added a task for the uP3 upgrade and set it in progress. Michelle's tasks are in progress. Clown, if you get some free to time adjust yours, that would be great.
[14:28:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> If you feel so compelled, you can also track your time in JIRA. The designers are doing this for all their tasks now, so I think we should probably start ourselves.
[14:32:15 EST(-0500)] <clown> I've been using FLUID-185 for my commits because when I last paired with Michelle, that's what we were working on. Perhaps another JIRA is better.
[14:33:32 EST(-0500)] <clown> actually, it's still accurate, but michelle is marked as working on it.
[14:33:36 EST(-0500)] <clown> advice?
[14:35:01 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I think that's fine - personally, I know that we pair on everything.
[14:35:44 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I also know that I often forget to mark something as in progress, so I imagine that it's possible that some of the other subtasks may be in progress, but not marked as such. So just a gentle reminder
[14:36:09 EST(-0500)] <jhung> But there's a problem no way of seeing who the other pair is and how much time was put into it as an individual.
[14:36:11 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, I just looked at the time-logging feature - cool! I didn't know you could do that
[14:36:12 EST(-0500)] <clown> I'm working on modifications to the PortletLayoutHandler in terms of determining vertical/horizontal siblings for moving and navigating via keyboard. Perhaps FLUID-189 is apropos.
[14:36:26 EST(-0500)] <jhung> (going to check time logging)
[14:36:36 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung, maybe the individual time could be accomplished with the time logging
[14:36:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I'm glad you're gently reminding us all.
[14:36:55 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> also, we tend to put all relevant initials in the commit log, which helps
[14:36:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I had to enable the time-tracking feature in JIRA.
[14:37:01 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So it's new for us.
[14:37:10 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> seems very cool
[14:37:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: As far as I know, anyone can log time against a task.
[14:37:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I wonder if it's possible to see time logged by each person?
[14:37:49 EST(-0500)] <jhung> but we can't have more than one assignee.
[14:37:50 EST(-0500)] <clown> because, in fact, that's what I'm wrestling with now. horizontal navigation is fine, but I've wrecked portlet moving with the keyboard. I'm assigning myself to 189...
[14:38:08 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Can you not log time against something you're not the assignee on?
[14:38:30 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> anyone know offhand of an issue that does have time logged, so I can see what the log looks like?
[14:38:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> shaw-hanliem: Do you know?
[14:39:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Oh, one other thing I forgot to tell you on the phone.
[14:39:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> PreferAble was broken. People were bugging us to fix it.
[14:40:00 EST(-0500)] <clown> anastasiac: when you have chance, can you tell me what the white board's esitmate is for 189?
[14:40:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> JH and I spent two days poking at it.
[14:40:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Frustration ensued.
[14:40:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Githens offered to port it to RSF.
[14:40:18 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> wow
[14:40:27 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> was the offer accepted?
[14:40:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I cleaned up all the templates, including making all the JavaScript totally unobtrusive and (almost) beautiful.
[14:40:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Added rsf:ids and the like.
[14:40:45 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> clown: momentarily
[14:40:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Played the "designer" role in the RSF worldview.
[14:40:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So apparently he's now half done.
[14:40:57 EST(-0500)] <clown> anastasiac: no rush
[14:41:33 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark: very cool!
[14:41:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I'm kind of excited about it.
[14:41:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Open source is great. People volunteer to help out!
[14:41:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[14:41:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> https://source.sakaiproject.org/contrib/utoronto/transformable/trunk/preferablewow/
[14:42:08 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I had seen th commit logs, but not looked closely enough to understand what was going on yet
[14:42:23 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> (two weeks of email to catch up on
[14:42:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Must be a bit overwhelming.
[14:42:47 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> just a wee bit
[14:44:05 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> clown: the whiteboard shows a half-day for FLUID-189
[14:44:39 EST(-0500)] <clown> anastasiac; oh my, I'd better get busy then.
[14:44:50 EST(-0500)] <clown>
[14:53:12 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> i think i'm going to go home and work from there for the rest of the day. doesn't look so good outside.
[14:53:51 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Sounds good.
[14:54:00 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Be careful out there.
[14:54:20 EST(-0500)] <barbara_> i'll take the subway back no more walking in this stuff!
[14:55:29 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm thinking I'll follow barbara's lead - the subway's not much of an option for me, so I'm on foot
[14:55:48 EST(-0500)] <jhung> good luck!
[14:55:49 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> I want to head out before the snow changes to freezing rain
[15:02:50 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I still haven't shoveled my stairs like clown suggest I should.
[15:02:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[15:03:36 EST(-0500)] <jhung> if it's turning into freezing rain, best to keep the snow on the ground.
[15:03:37 EST(-0500)] <clown> i've done my driveway, stairs, and part of the patio near the back door.
[15:03:42 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Otherwise you have ice on your stairs.
[15:03:47 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ack
[15:04:01 EST(-0500)] <clown> but, looking out, it doesn't look like I did anything.
[15:04:05 EST(-0500)] <clown> sigh
[15:04:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I am Doomed.
[15:04:30 EST(-0500)] <clown> good for your biceps. bad for you back.
[15:04:42 EST(-0500)] <jhung> The drift in front of my house is only 1 foot. I'm still okay.
[15:06:13 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, this condo-owner wishes all you house-owners happy shovelling
[15:06:30 EST(-0500)] <jhung> Enjoy your walk!
[15:06:38 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> always!
[15:07:01 EST(-0500)] <clown> thank you. have a good weekend.
[15:07:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> have a great weekend, anastasiac!
[15:07:40 EST(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, colinclark - you too
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[15:24:08 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> colinclark: I just committed a very basic fluid.wrap - feel free to switch it for the one I know you have lurking on your machine.
[15:24:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Great, I'll take a look.
[15:38:51 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> Ack. I forgot to jsLint Fluid.js before committing. Missing semicolon on line 54. I'll commit the fix with my next commit.
[15:46:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark>
[15:46:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled_: Douglas Crockford is very disappointed with you right now.
[15:47:02 EST(-0500)] <michelled_>
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[16:41:41 EST(-0500)] <jhun1> Seems like I have a clone.
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[16:54:28 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> you guys probably read xkcd already? if not: http://xkcd.com/378/
[16:54:47 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> such a great comic
[16:54:53 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> yeah, it rocks
[16:56:22 EST(-0500)] <jhun1> haha
[16:56:25 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> http://xkcd.com/327/
[16:56:31 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I think that one is still my favorite
[16:58:37 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> EricDalquist: that's a really good one
[16:59:46 EST(-0500)] <jhun1> oh that's good.
[16:59:51 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist>
[17:00:03 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> isn't that tempting?
[17:00:15 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> very
[17:05:42 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> simonjb: That's the real reason I grow milkweed.
[17:06:03 EST(-0500)] <simonjb> michelled_:
[17:12:23 EST(-0500)] <clown> so long everyone. have a great weekend!
[17:12:47 EST(-0500)] <michelled_> you too
[17:12:58 EST(-0500)] <jhun1> see ya
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