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[11:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <theclown> FYI everyone: ie8 beta is now publicly available: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/beta/
[11:34:34 EDT(-0400)] <theclown> in case you didn't already know...
[11:34:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> theclown: thanks, I didn't know
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[12:12:32 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> Justin_o: i think yahoo still considers this X grade though, not A-grade, right?
[12:13:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jacobfarber2: sorry could you put that in context.. i'm not exactly sure what "this" is
[12:13:49 EDT(-0400)] <theclown> isn't "this" just "that"? 
Sorry...
[12:14:29 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> theclown: maybe both
[12:15:55 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> ie8 beta
[12:15:59 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> sorry about that
[12:16:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> oh yes.. it isn't on my A-grade test list..
[12:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> ok
[12:16:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> just thought it would be interesting for me to look at.. not for fluid testing per se
[12:16:54 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> but thanks for pointing it
[12:16:55 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> out
[12:17:11 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2>
[12:17:31 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> the developers beta was beyond horrible
[12:17:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> oh.. so hopefully they've brought it down to at least horrible
[12:18:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> do you know if you can run it beside IE6 and IE7
[12:18:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> IE8 is definitely not A-Grade, but is definitely worth looking at.
[12:18:26 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> nope
[12:18:33 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> i have multiple IE running
[12:18:37 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> and it overruns ie7
[12:18:45 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> at least, for the time being
[12:19:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay.. thanks... I might just need to get another vmware set up
[12:19:18 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I had heard that there was an emulation mode in IE8 that allowed to run as if it was IE7
[12:19:29 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> yeah, but it requires a restart
[12:19:31 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> unfortunately you had to restart the browser to get it to work
[12:19:32 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes
[12:19:54 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> very annoying
[12:19:59 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> does it work identical to the standard ie7 then...
[12:20:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> in emulation mode
[12:20:12 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I just run an old laptop for IE testing, but I haven't taken the IE8 dip
[12:20:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> too buggy
[12:20:22 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> im trying it out now
[12:20:30 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> lets hope i dont implode
[12:20:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> maybe you should wait till after stand up 
[12:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> naw, your right arm will be numb for a couple of hours though
[12:21:13 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> Justin_o: i have anotehr machine for that 
[12:21:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> that's good
[12:21:37 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> ecochran: my brain turns to mush when I see the IE logo....
[12:21:51 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> steam comes out my ears!
[12:22:13 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> Justin_o:it would be better if it worked properly....i think the stuttering will happen again 
[12:22:20 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran has high hopes for IE8
[12:22:29 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> perhaps foolishly
[12:23:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jacobfarber2: breeze was updated yesterday so it may work better for you... depending on where the issue actually lies
[12:23:21 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> here's hoping....
[12:23:35 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> good luck
[12:23:37 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber2> same address, right?
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[12:27:51 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> jacobfarber: are you using FF for Breeze?
[12:28:08 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> yup
[12:28:45 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> you might try making sure that Firebug is disabled as it has huge overhead
[12:31:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Now that we have Connect, we should probably all go back to using the stand-alone app.
[12:31:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It actually works again in OS X!
[12:32:17 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> well, good news
[12:32:46 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> in ie8, in the attributes section of the ie developer tools, there is a massive dump of ARIA attributes....
[12:32:50 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> which is nice to see
[12:33:34 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: what stand-along app?
[12:34:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: The Connect stand-alone app.
[12:34:10 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> stand-alone
[12:34:14 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> there is one?
[12:34:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep
[12:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> it just didn't work in leopard
[12:34:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's a little arrow in the top right corner of the screen that will prompt you to install it.
[12:34:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It allows you to do cool stuff like properly share screens.
[12:34:57 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah, yes... I'm using it
[12:35:13 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I didn't think of it as stand-alone because I launched it via the browser
[12:35:50 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'd like to test the screen sharing sometime.
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[15:46:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> jacobfarber: are you around?
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[16:30:14 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'Infusion 0.5 beta is out! http://fluidproject.org/index.php/downloads' set by colinclark on 2008-08-28 16:30:14 EDT(-0400)
[16:35:55 EDT(-0400)] <simonwang> hi colinclark
[16:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> simonwang: Hi.
[16:38:29 EDT(-0400)] <simonwang> colinclark: in the mean time of waiting for the unix test server access, do you have anything else for me to do?
[16:41:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> simonwang: I'm not sure. I'd suggest you take a look through JIRA and talk to Justin about what's on his radar,
[16:41:33 EDT(-0400)] <simonwang> ok.
[16:41:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Generally, people in the community pick their tasks based on interest, curiosity and motivation, along with their skill strengths.
[16:42:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So perhaps you can look through JIRA and see if there are some interesting uPortal-related tasks?
[16:42:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Another thing, since we'll likely be working on UC Irvine's Announcements portlet soon, would be to familiarize yourself with it.
[16:46:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Install it, try it out, and start to learn how the code works.
[16:47:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Your comments on the last bug you worked on were really helpful... so don't hesitate to grab other issues that interest you.
[16:49:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> simonwang: ^
[16:49:10 EDT(-0400)] <simonwang> thanks, I got it.
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[17:09:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: So that was a really enjoyable Uploader conversation on Breeze.
[17:09:48 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes, very nice
[17:09:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And it reminded me of a technical detail I wanted to share with you:
[17:09:57 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> cool
[17:10:01 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> please...
[17:10:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Google Gears 0.4 has apparently added Upload capability.
[17:10:12 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> they have?
[17:10:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And while Gears is far from ubiquitous (like Flash), it has some unique features...
[17:10:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I was hoping to goof around some day in the fancy future with a Gears implementation of UploadManager.
[17:10:41 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I knew I should have read that GGear 0.4 article on Ajaxian this morning
[17:10:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark>
[17:10:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Because it apparently allows for real byte streaming...
[17:11:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> meaning we could do stuff like, on the client, determine if a file is actually a duplicate.
[17:11:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Again, this is a bit pie-in-the-sky, but I though you might be curious.
[17:11:33 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Well, I've always wanted to make an AIR version of the Uploader because I think that it would give us access to thumbnails and file paths
[17:11:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> As an aside, it's also got a Geolocation API.
[17:11:44 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> but I suppose that the GG might do the same
[17:11:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: That would be cool, too.
[17:12:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Where are you getting your GG info?
[17:12:17 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> from that self-same Ajaxian article... that I didn't read?
[17:12:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I read Ajaxian on my iPod touch while on the subway.
[17:12:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's awesome.
[17:12:44 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> do you have wifi on the subway?
[17:12:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> nope
[17:13:11 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I have NetNewsWire.
[17:13:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah yes
[17:16:57 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'm reading now... very cool
[17:46:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Are you free for a quick question?
[17:47:00 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yep
[17:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Tell me about the differences between Uploader.css and upload-sample.css.
[17:49:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And the .fluid-uploader style inside the inline html file.
[17:49:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What is their relationship with each other?
[17:50:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> upload-sample.css was just for implementing the Sakai skin in an earlier prototype. It should be able to be removed and have no effect on uploader
[17:51:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yep, there's no uploader styling in there
[17:51:45 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> the little bit of css in the inline example...
[17:51:50 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> hmm
[17:53:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> probably laziness on my part... something not factored back
[17:53:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Cool, okay, so I'll remove upload-sample.css.
[17:53:13 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> that's fin
[17:53:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Should it be put in uploader.css?
[17:53:16 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> fine
[17:53:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The snippet in inline-upload.html?
[17:53:35 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> no because it would mess up the pop-up version
[17:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ah.
[17:53:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Should we add a special class for the inline version, then?
[17:54:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Or is there another approach you'd recommend?
[17:54:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> no, give me a moment and I'll have the right syntax for it.
[17:54:35 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> since there is an wrapper which is the pop-up we can use that to special case it.
[17:54:55 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> which is kind of what I was doing in reverse for the inline
[17:56:22 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah, no, it's not so easy
[17:57:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's no rush, but it'd be great if you can cook something up.
[17:58:18 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> shall I just check it in
[17:58:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ?
[17:58:33 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> all ready
[17:58:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Sure, if you've got a fix. Fast!
[17:58:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> to go
[17:58:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome
[17:58:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah, just check it in.
[17:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm goofing around with formatting, so I might have merge hell, but that's my fault.
[17:59:58 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ok, Uploader.css and uploader-inline.html changed
[18:00:04 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> you sound like you're having fun
[18:00:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm just about to wire up the DemoUploadManager and the FileQueue.
[18:00:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It will seem painfully silly at first.
[18:00:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But it's coming along.
[18:00:37 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> why silly?
[18:01:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Just 'cause real functionality is only starting to emerge.
[18:01:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Getting some of the skeleton ready took time.
[18:01:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But it will be great to have something that Justin can start to QA again.
[18:01:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Does Uploader have to live inside a form?
[18:03:04 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> hmm
[18:03:34 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> as long as we're using buttons and not links then yes
[18:03:47 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> form elements must live inside forms in some browsers
[18:04:09 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> another reason to avoid the <button> tag. annoying beast
[18:04:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool. That's what I figured. But SWFUpload itself could care less about living in a form, right/
[18:04:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ?
[18:04:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> could care less
[18:04:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> however...
[18:04:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Yeah, that's a good point. It's sort a struggle, because these things semantically seem like buttons rather than links, but it gets messy... I think DHTML is really sort of smashing the distinction between buttons and links.
[18:05:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> if we doing graceful degradation (or graceful enhancement) then we would want to have a file input element for uploading if JS wasn't around. And that would require a form.!
[18:06:00 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so that's how I built it, even though I never really did much with the graceful part
[18:06:03 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ran out of time
[18:06:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool, that makes lots of sense. We should totally do graceful degradation with this new version.
[18:06:31 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> there was at least one param that was there just for that
[18:07:04 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> httpUploadElm: "",
[18:07:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> aha
[18:07:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I had no idea.
[18:07:42 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> the intention for that one was that if it was set, then the Uploader would replace that element in DOM with an instance of the Uploader
[18:07:53 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> didn't go very far down that path
[18:08:41 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I think my thought was to either replace the httpUploadElm with a button that would launch the pop-up, or put the inline version in that place depending on the other settings
[18:09:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That makes a lot of sense to me.
[18:09:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> features inside of features inside of dream inside a fragment of specification that I read once
[18:09:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark>
[18:09:37 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'features inside of features inside of dream inside a fragment of specification that I read once' set by colinclark on 2008-08-28 18:09:37 EDT(-0400)
[18:10:14 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> elmUploaderControl
[18:10:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> then there is this one
[18:10:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> which I don't even remember what it's for
[18:10:32 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> is it in the code?
[18:10:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> nope
[18:11:05 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah. I remember...
[18:12:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I think that this is what became the addFilesBtn
[18:13:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> aha.
[18:14:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey, I just discovered that Aptana includes a Visual jQuery view built-in.
[18:14:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Too bad it's so out of date now.
[18:14:22 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yep, not very useful
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