fluid-work IRC Logs-2012-04-03

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Last updated: Apr 03, 2012Version comment
14 min read

[08:08:36 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I was trying to talk with you but realized I was talking to the logbot. (big grin)

[08:09:16 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I sent you an email containing the draft mass email. Let me know if it's okay and I'll shoot it out.

[08:12:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: (smile) hope the logbot was nice to you

[08:13:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: your e-mail looks really good

[08:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Surprisingly cordial. It welcomed me then told me I was being watched. Kind of creepy.

[08:14:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: that is creepy (smile)

[08:14:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i should start answering my phone like that

[08:14:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it should keep the telemarketers away

[08:14:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: lol

[08:14:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> if only

[08:15:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> (smile)

[08:15:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> okay, I'll send off that email now to the list in our google doc. is there anyone I may have missed?

[08:25:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: you're missing astieg, but i don't that persons e-mail, we just talked in the channel so far

[08:26:21 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ok. I'll check my email.

[09:25:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: asteig's name is Amanda

[09:25:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in case it helps (smile)

[09:26:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks for letting us know.. good to be able to put a name to the the irc nick

[09:26:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yup

[10:27:20 CDT(-0500)] <Daniel____> hi guys, I've sent my application up for review

[10:27:46 CDT(-0500)] <Daniel____> its a proposal on the fluid html5 image editor

[10:39:04 CDT(-0500)] <greggy> Daniel____: its been passed on the the project mentors

[10:42:14 CDT(-0500)] <Daniel____> ok thanks

[11:18:03 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Good morning. (smile)

[11:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: Catching up on the log. I see you were tracking me down. My email is asteig@gmail.com.

[11:20:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Thanks asteig! I'll send you the email I sent to the others already.

[11:20:28 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Wonderful, thank you! (smile)

[11:22:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Email on its way asteig.

[11:22:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> and no problem. (smile)

[11:22:59 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Thank you. (smile)

[11:24:16 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: I spoke with Justin_O yesterday and was hoping one or both of you would mind taking my look at my proposal before I submit it? It's finished, but I want to make sure I have all the information in it that you'd like to have.

[11:24:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: sure. Email it to us and we can take a look.

[11:33:12 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Sent. (smile)

[11:42:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yura1: what was the option to manually set the nickname of a component in IoC?

[11:43:11 CDT(-0500)] <yura1> fluid.typeTag ?

[11:43:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i thought i had seen a way to do it in the parents defaults

[11:45:24 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, michelled: I've created a JIRA for adding AfA md to the authoring tool: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLOE-6

[11:45:45 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> thanks, anastasiac

[12:10:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Justin_o - there is no such way

[12:10:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> YOu will have to do it by hand

[12:10:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The only material I wrote that way was just "notional", together with a comment that it doesn't work : P

[12:13:18 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: seems i found the way to fix the the UIEnhancer issue at detecting the browser default font size. i'm going to send a pull request.

[12:14:27 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> that's great cindyli

[12:31:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: did you make a pull request?

[12:32:41 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> no, michelled, i also need to add a test case for that, and anastasiac and i are currently working on meta data which has higher priority.

[12:33:04 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> ok good - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't holding anything up

[12:45:03 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: I don't see a FLOE-3 branch in your OERCommons repo - is your video player work somewhere else?

[12:45:58 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: at local. do you want me to push up?

[12:46:00 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> will do it

[12:46:16 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yep - that would be good

[12:46:29 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I might be able to do a little work on that this afternoon

[12:47:27 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: it's there - https://github.com/cindyli/OER-Commons/tree/FLOE-3

[12:54:26 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jameswy, do you have any draft wireframes for us?

[12:54:48 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anastasiac: I do, if you look at my screen--they're not up on the wiki yet.

[12:56:02 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: i noticed i checked in some old MyInfusion files into FLOE-3. will remove them and update the readme for infusion and video player builds. i will let you know once those are done so you can merge. this change should not affect what you will be working on i guess.

[12:57:17 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thx cindyli

[12:57:25 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np

[13:36:07 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> colinclark: I definitely think I'd like to apply to your musical instrument project as well as the HTML5 Image Editor. Is it possible to apply for both?

[13:44:20 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> asteig: you are allowed to apply to as many gsoc projects as you like

[13:44:33 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> asteig: but you will only be accepted for one of them

[13:44:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I should say 'can' not 'will'

[13:45:30 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Do I append my proposals in the GSoC website for your organization or is there a separate form to submit to multiple projects within the same organization?

[13:47:52 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: updates have been pushed into my github FLOE-3

[13:48:43 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thx cindyli

[13:48:49 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np

[13:49:07 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> asteig: I'm not sure actually, greggy how does a student apply to two of our projects?

[14:28:26 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Hey chaps!

[14:41:33 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: i submitted a pull request to fix the UIEnhancer px2em factor detection issue - https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion/pull/217

[14:41:51 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thx cindyli

[14:41:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np

[14:45:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: should i be able to use the nickName option to manually set the nickName of a component

[14:45:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i think i saw this option, but could be mistaken

[14:56:16 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Hey BosMon

[15:02:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: disregard my last message, michelled just showed me that you had replied to my question to yura1 much earlier. Thanks

[15:06:25 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark and justin_o: looks like we may have Ocropus sooner than later.

[15:06:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> forwarded you email from Tom

[15:06:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: really

[15:48:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> NickMayne!

[15:49:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Describe these MADD HAPPS!

[15:49:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Also, your recent triumphant journey through CLAPHAM JUNCTION....

[15:51:16 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Hello All

[15:56:59 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Yo Bosmon

[15:57:06 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Mad haps happinin!!

[15:57:28 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Clapham Junction sucks.

[15:57:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, it sort of does

[15:57:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It's sort of admirable in other ways : P

[15:57:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As an example of things...

[15:57:53 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Fun for going out in, but being on the overground in rush hour is no fun

[15:58:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I often like to talk about the "Clapham Junction Effect" in coding, but not many people over here grasp that : P

[15:58:16 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> lol

[15:58:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I was told to remove a picture of Clapham Junction from one of my slides....

[15:58:26 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Really?

[15:58:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hey there travis_84!

[15:58:38 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> its the countries busiest train station

[15:58:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It really is

[15:59:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And it explains what happens to every dependency-correct design, in the absence of a working IoC system : P

[15:59:05 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> yeah!!.. an I live it every day, and it drives me crazr.

[15:59:09 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> crazy*

[15:59:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You end up with a "single giant point of switching"

[15:59:22 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> lol...

[15:59:33 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Yupp... and it takes a while to decouple it

[15:59:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, mostly you never do

[15:59:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In fact, every effort to decouple things merely pushes more dependency to the top of your design

[16:00:01 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Exactly.

[16:00:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And Clapham Junction gets even busier (tongue)

[16:00:09 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Hey Bosmon

[16:00:15 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Yup...

[16:00:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I didn't get to look at your jQuery stuffs yet, but should do this evening

[16:00:47 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Its cool

[16:00:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I spent all of yesterday writing JS code to write to the Windows Registry (!!)

[16:01:07 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> lol

[16:01:30 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Me and a guy i work with spent all day trying to make a site work in IE6

[16:01:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Poor saps

[16:01:48 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Yup... site is for the NHS

[16:01:50 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> ouch

[16:02:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I read a posting about a startup who decided to ban all support for every version of IE

[16:02:03 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> IE6 isn't dead yet?

[16:02:11 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> nope

[16:02:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Apparently they didn't get any complaints (smile)

[16:02:17 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Banking and NHS

[16:02:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But with the NHS you have little choice

[16:02:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I remember passing through an Italian bank not so long ago and found they were still using OS/2 (smile)

[16:02:43 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Banking im suprised at, as the vendor ceesed support which forses them to upgrade

[16:02:51 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> lol!!

[16:03:05 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> But banks have to upgrade if the vendor kills support for it

[16:03:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, but this is IBM we're talking about (smile)

[16:03:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> They'll probably carry on supporting OS/2 long after MS have even dumped XP

[16:04:16 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> True be that!

[16:07:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I remember my surprise when I discovered Clapham Junction is actually a PLACE

[16:07:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I thought for years that it was just this abstract crazy state that you pass through

[16:08:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But not so many years ago I found that it actually has an OUTSIDE....

[16:10:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hey travis_84, I spent some time reading your site last night

[16:10:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Pretty cool stuff!

[16:10:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> How's the proposal coming along?

[16:12:14 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> uh oh...

[16:12:17 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> lol

[16:12:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> (smile)

[16:12:22 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> which one?

[16:12:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You have more than one?

[16:13:36 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I am a workaholic

[16:14:39 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I started a VOIP business recently as well

[16:14:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Crazy

[16:16:05 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Just a means to finish school, I take it you are speaking of Cubed?

[16:16:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> yes, that one

[16:17:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Looks like you work on a lot of interesting stuff

[16:17:17 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I need to update that again soon, have a few more sites under my belt

[16:21:14 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Thanks, I am trying to find an...end point? A point I can say I have something to contribute to. Hopefully you know what I mean

[16:22:47 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> There are so many things I would love to do but cloning is illegal (tongue)

[16:25:32 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> I am sitting here trying to find code or examples of code that chrome or firefox use to rendor the DOM into tree objects... Like in the dev tools

[16:26:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Is it? I'm sure I could clone my CATTT ...

[16:26:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> travis_84, yes, a properly accessible tree view would be a really major contribution

[16:27:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You might be interested to look at some of the material about our renderer

[16:27:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The "Fluid Renderer"

[16:27:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> it might not be usable directly for this task, but it might give you a few ideas

[16:29:12 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Is cloning illegal?

[16:29:35 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> I dont know if I could compete with another one of me

[16:29:45 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> that is a part of my plan, there are a few fluid things that could prove useful

[16:29:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The workload is probably bit too "heavy" for our renderer

[16:30:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> it tends to get itself, and its user, highly confused in deeply recursive situations

[16:30:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> On the other hand, you almost certainly don't want to represent DOM recursion by means of DOM recursion (smile)

[16:30:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since you will then end up punishing the browser to the tune of the square of the amount of work you are doing....

[16:32:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: are you really saying that IBM still supports OS/2?!?

[16:32:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and travis_84, what is your Cubed site? I'm curious now! (smile)

[16:33:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and hi, by the way

[16:33:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I believe they still do! Certainly for "the right customer"

[16:33:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> wowza

[16:33:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, consider all these people they still have on MVS....

[16:33:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I wouldn't be surprised if they even had some OS/360 customers (smile)

[16:33:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You're probably right

[16:34:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - here's travis' site

[16:34:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> http://cubed-media.com/

[16:34:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> At least, one of them that I know about : P

[16:34:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> awesome, thanks

[16:34:50 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> that's it

[16:34:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The channel's been so busy with people these days, it's exciting

[16:35:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I haven't had the chance to keep up, what with my six meetings per day (tongue)

[16:35:17 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> the other is www.newideanetworks.com

[16:36:30 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Busy huh!

[16:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> heh just needing something to stick

[16:37:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've had various ideas about how Asterisk could be interesting to reach out to people with "dumb phones"

[16:38:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> As an alternative interface

[16:38:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or places with low bandwidth, or where smartphone adoption isn't strong

[16:38:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Speaking of IBM's eternal support.... I'm wondering how long businesses will be insistent on supplying each employee with a sort of chunky plastic object with a part which detaches on a bungy cord

[16:38:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It would be quite interesting to render alternative interfaces to websites, based on some kind of Asterisk voice interface

[16:38:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I have one of these

[16:38:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's a VOIP phone

[16:39:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and I'm always suspicious when it rings

[16:39:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It reminds of that scene in Father Ted when Dougall picks up the front of the destroyed television and sticks his head through it, saying... "HEY, I'M ON THE TELEVISION!" : P

[16:39:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol

[16:39:43 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> lol

[16:41:13 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> colinclark that is what me and Bosmon have been discussing (smile)

[16:41:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess there is something very ergonomic about a physical phone, but it doesn't help seeming like a pretty inefficient use of space....

[16:41:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Although I can hardly speak, I'm sure by 2030 I'll be one of the final crusty holdouts in favour of having a physical computer keyboard : P

[16:42:03 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> lol

[16:42:38 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I remember when I went to my first work experience job in the early 90s.... and my boss would make fun of trends as he saw them

[16:42:50 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> not a light emitted keyboard? lol

[16:43:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And he said, "and you know, one day there will just be a PICTURE of a keyboard on the screen, and they'll expect you to click on the buttons somehow"

[16:43:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Little did he suspect that in fewer than 20 short years, his grim joke would become a reality

[16:46:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> like on my iPad!

[16:47:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Like on that!

[16:47:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> He was always a bit of a futurist...... I remember he puzzled me by his insistence, in 1991, on what we would now recognise as a "declarative scheme for specifying a user interface" : P

[16:48:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> HTML!

[16:48:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, in those days, it was just desktop GUIs...

[16:48:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But he was explaining to me, how when the "GUI" was produced on a VT100 terminal, he could specify its layout very easily in a declarative way : P

[16:49:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And how he considered the move to these new-fangled mouse-based systems was a big step backwards....

[16:53:43 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Yo Lads, in fluidview.js if I were to call locate("text");

[16:53:53 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> what exactly do you thin it should look up?

[16:54:10 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> think*

[16:54:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It will look up whatever you have configured in the DOM BINDER to which the method is attached

[16:54:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The DOM BINDER is basically just a list of named selectors

[16:54:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> + a parent container

[16:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, whatever selector you have configured named "text" it will look up that one, in the scope of its container

[16:54:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It is a devilishly simple idea : P

[16:55:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> When colinclark first proposed it in 2008, I wondered, "why will people actually want this thing which can be implemented in 3 lines of code?" : P

[16:56:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi NickMayne_ - did your connection drop out?

[16:57:03 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What was the last you got

[16:57:36 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> Yeah, i was debuggin javascript an my firefox instance crashed lol

[16:57:44 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> I got it all, I jsut checked the logs (smile)

[16:58:30 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> interesting idea

[16:58:44 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> Hmm why do I now have an underscore hmm

[16:59:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> !

[16:59:23 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You're reading IRC using a browser?! : P

[17:00:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> there are some pretty good browser-based IRC clients

[17:00:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> one is a FF extension, if I remember correctly

[17:00:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I used it on Windows for awhile

[17:00:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, I have more than enough browser windows...

[17:00:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'd prefer ones I could tell apart from the others (smile)

[17:00:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> indeed you do

[17:00:52 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> lol

[17:01:01 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> Yeah, I dont like to install too much stuff on my pc

[17:01:23 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> same

[17:02:04 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> Thans fro you response btw Bosmon

[17:02:19 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> for*

[17:02:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The DOM BINDER is an instance of that legendary Comp Sci canard.... "There's no problem that can't be solved with an extra layer of indirection" : P

[17:02:53 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> haha

[17:02:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But mainly, it allows your users to change their markup, without you having to change your code

[17:04:05 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> I see, thats a good thing

[17:04:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> A huge part of the problem we see with other people's widgets is that not only can you not subsititute their markup, it's often baked right into their JS code itself

[17:05:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We usually try manfully to use these things for a while and then miserably have to turn back to implement our own again : P

[17:05:29 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The latest in this long line of failed adoptions is the "HTML5 captionator" we tried to use in our video player

[17:06:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But still we keep trying to adopt rather than develop, in the perpetual hope that "men have grown honest" : P

[17:07:00 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> While there are good developers, there will always be bad developers

[17:08:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I imagine that most developers are at least trying to be good....

[17:08:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It's just in most cases they lack the tools and traditions that would let them be good with a minimum investment of time : P

[17:08:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> After all, who would choose to be good, if it stopped them being able to SHIP....

[17:09:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, in this direction, I think that "little inventions" like the DOM BINDER are incredibly useful

[17:10:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Mostly they are not particularly huge pieces of technology, but often something which is more a way of approaching a problem....

[17:10:18 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> Alot of it comes down to people teaching other people what best practice is

[17:10:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I mean, now I've described the DOM BINDER to you, you could implement your own one in 3 lines of code (smile)

[17:10:37 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne_> i could try (wink)

[17:11:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And then the rest can just be "convention"

[17:11:23 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You can see that every Fluid component has a block named "selectors"

[17:11:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which in every case is the configuration sent to the DOM binder

[17:11:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Being just a named collection of selectors.....

[17:11:59 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Once you know this, you know to look for it in the same place every time, when you are wondering how to change the markup on a component

[17:12:26 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> hmmm

[17:12:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Although in practice, just using standard class names gives people the flexibility they need

[17:12:33 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> debugging js killed my browser again

[17:12:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This is why I keep my FF mostly for debugging (smile)

[17:12:56 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> interesting... when I F11 to this like

[17:12:57 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> defaultViewText: "Edit this"

[17:13:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I hardly want to lose my 220 Chrome windows due to some stray bug

[17:13:06 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> it crashes

[17:13:14 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> 220 chrome windows?

[17:13:21 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> lol

[17:13:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> 222 as of right now : P

[17:13:26 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> Memory hog!

[17:14:15 CDT(-0500)] <NickMayne> darn

[17:14:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I remember back in the day, people would make fun of Emacs because it used 8Mb when running

[17:14:29 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Now my Chrome windows use 1000x that amount and I barely notice....

[17:14:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you could probably run 222 Lynx windows inside Emacs, Bosmon

[17:15:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's quite right!

[20:05:56 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Bosmon, are you still around?

[20:15:00 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi there travis_84 - in and out

[20:17:24 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> Ok, I just wanted to ask how IDI prefers the submission of the cover letter and resume for the proposals and additional imagrs

[20:17:56 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> all pasted in or links?

[20:26:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess I'm not too familiar with the procedure (smile)

[20:26:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> How does the thing get submitted anyway... as some kind of HTML?

[20:27:40 CDT(-0500)] <travis_84> pretty much a glorified RTE

[20:41:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm sure links will be fine : P