fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-10-06

[08:34:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I have updated the Decapod 0.5 planning page. Can you double-check it with the white board to see that everything is captured? I did not put in priorities or dev time.

[08:34:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.5+Planning

[10:17:53 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I just filed a pretty minor bug for Fat Panel: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4508 The styling of the tabs is a wee bit off

[10:52:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, another minor styling bug, IE6 only: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4509 Fat panel "show" button blue background extends across entire page

[10:52:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks

[11:01:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: i've reopened this http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4504

[11:01:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> and assigned it to you

[11:01:52 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thx Justin_o

[11:35:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> hey Justin_o just saw yr comment/reopening of 4504 - can you explain a little more?

[11:36:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: sure.. so i was testing UIO and notice that the sliding panel's handle and the buttons to open the full page variants of UIO didn't have focus styling

[11:36:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so we talked this out and it was decided that the contrast specific themes should come with styling by default

[11:37:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o i didn't put fl-focus on the demo

[11:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yep

[11:37:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that's how we noticed it

[11:37:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o ie. the themes should have :focus ?

[11:37:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so the idea now is that you shouldn't have to for the contrast themese

[11:37:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: they do already, but they are also scoped to fl-focus

[11:37:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so that scoping will be removed

[11:37:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o yeah so just a :focus style will be added?

[11:37:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yep

[11:38:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o gotcha

[11:38:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but scoped to the theme of course

[11:38:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: do you think that makes sense?

[11:38:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it hasn't been changed yet, so if you have some alternative thoughts or opinions we can still change it

[11:38:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> although everyone else is out for lunch

[11:38:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o yeah i think that makes sense. i'm confused about fl-focus i guess... going back to the global vs context use of it

[11:39:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> we decided :focus shouldn't be in base, but isn't it a similar argument to putting it in the contrast themes? maybe it's different

[11:39:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i guess base isn't supposed to be a theme really, just an invisible normalizer

[11:50:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yes.. we are saying that the contrast themes bring with it some extra expectations.. note that we aren't changing the other themes like this

[11:51:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o cool, sounds good

[12:02:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks

[12:03:12 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o is someone taking care of the fix for it?

[12:03:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: michelle is in the process of looking into it.. she's taking a lunch break though

[12:03:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool

[12:04:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: as far as testing goes.. we'll keep going.. but come back o make sure the contrast themes are okay in all the browsers again

[12:04:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o great

[12:12:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i'm going to look over the Decapod 0.5 planning page. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.5+Planning

[12:12:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: cool

[12:13:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I'll task out the iterations, and maybe split the iterations up a bit more...

[12:13:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> okay

[12:13:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'll show it to you when i got it all up, then i'll jira the first iteration

[12:13:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: ^

[12:15:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sounds good! From that I'll draw up the design tasks and put those into Jira as well.

[12:49:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: what do you think of this http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.5+Planning

[12:51:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: looks good at a glance. I'm going to add design tasks to that now. I may have questions.

[12:52:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: sure, let me know when you think it's ready for me to start putting in the first iteration's tasks into jira

[12:52:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> okay

[12:53:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> thanks

[12:56:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: do you remember what happened with this http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/DECA-157

[12:58:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: I don't know if this was ever resolved. We should definitely test it with Hasan's latest code and with the tagged 0.4 release.

[12:58:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: yes… i'll push that one to 0.5 for now

[13:00:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: do you remember if we supported OCR output in Decapod 0.4?

[13:00:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o, we did not. We generated only Type 1, although type 2 worked somewhat.

[13:01:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay, thanks

[13:09:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: is it going to be called "Image Management" or "Page Management"

[13:10:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Project Management is what we used to call the "Book Manager". Image Manegement is what was the Capture UI.

[13:11:04 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> They are two different things.

[13:11:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Projects are sets of images.

[13:12:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks.. i'm going to make components in Jira for those

[13:12:36 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yes makes sense. Hopefully these names don't stick because I think they can be better. (big grin)

[13:12:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> seeing some candidates have this on their site: http://www.essentialaccessibility.com/how-it-works.php

[13:12:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anyone know more about this?

[13:17:58 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: I was wondering whether we should remove the fl-focus scoping from all the themes -

[13:18:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> that way when you get a theme it automatically has a focus styling that goes with it

[13:18:22 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> what do you think?

[13:18:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled if :focus is there, then fl-focus wouldn't do anything extra

[13:18:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: luckily, it's easy to change them in jira

[13:18:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> so can replace with :focus ya

[13:18:52 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I have updated the 0.5 wiki page.

[13:19:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks.. i'll go check it out

[13:19:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Iteration 3 doesn't have any design tasks at the moment. I figure it'll likely be taken up by testing, helping you out. Otherwise we can push up Iteration 4 design tasks

[13:19:41 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: this change means a change in FSS - how does that impact testing?

[13:20:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: which page did you update exactly, i'm not seeing any changes..

[13:20:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> or maybe i'm just missing them

[13:20:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.5+Planning

[13:20:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o

[13:20:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: oh i see.. i was ignoring the new tables you created (sad)

[13:21:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I made them so beautiful too! (sad)

[13:21:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: sorry

[13:21:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> lol

[13:21:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: will you have the design ready for me to start implementing

[13:21:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> for the start of next week

[13:24:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung_actual> justin_o: Unlikely. So perhaps the way this will work is you can start with a placeholder / default Uploader implementation until I can get the designs done by mid next week,

[13:25:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung_actual: okay

[13:25:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung_actual> Does that work? I can then help with the CSS, HTML etc to make it look like the design.

[13:25:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung_actual: i'm going to create liras for the dev tasks now

[13:25:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung_actual> ok

[13:25:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung_actual: yep that's good

[13:27:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I will do the same for the design tasks.

[13:28:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks

[13:36:50 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_, Justin_o, anastasiac: I'm wondering whether the removal of fl-focus denotes an API change and whether we are still happy with that at this point in the release cycle

[13:37:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: you mean at all, or if we do so across all themes?

[13:37:44 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, can you clarify what we're removing fl-focus from, exactly?

[13:38:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: besides http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/DECA-55 what else needed to be fixed with thumbnail generation

[13:38:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> we could keep fl-focus in there - thinking about it more... it would allow a theme user to over-ride :focus and still make use of the fl-focus

[13:38:37 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: we are removing fl-focus from the themes that UIO uses. but I can't understand why we would remove it from there and not remove it from the other themes as well

[13:39:49 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: if we leave it in there then we need to programatically add and remove the fl-focus class or the implementor will need to add it in

[13:40:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: we may need to fix the thumbnail if it's being stitched in CSS.

[13:40:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: I don't remember what's being done in the markup.

[13:40:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay, thanks

[13:40:52 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> programatically removing fl-focus could be dangerous since we don't know if the implementor is the one who put in there in the first place

[13:41:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled fl-focus and :focus can both be there, so an implementer could over-ride/remove the :focus style but still make use of fl-focus

[13:41:40 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: are you saying we should add :focus to the list of matching selectors in the theme?

[13:41:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> programmatically remove from user's html ... for UIO?

[13:42:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled i thought that's what you, Justin_o, jameswy thought was best... that :focus should be styled in the contrast themes instead of fl-focus

[13:42:42 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I still think that. Focus should be styled in the contrast themes.

[13:43:11 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: why would we also put in the fl-focus scoping?

[13:43:50 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> jameswy: would also feel that we should be styling :focus in the other themes such as mist?

[13:44:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled i think it makes sense for fl-focus to not be there as well, however if we want to keep the API consistent... we can leave it. and it could theoretically be used by someone if they decide to override :focus styling and make use of fl-focus contextually.

[13:45:26 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: when did we introduce fl-focus? was it pre 1.4?

[13:45:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled i think 1.4? Justin_o when did the global/base separating happen? same time right?

[13:45:51 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> michelled, heidi_, Justin_o: I actually don't care what happens with the other themes (like mist)--I still don't know why they exist.

[13:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> er global/context

[13:46:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i believe so

[13:46:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: why do you hate our themes (sad)

[13:47:08 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> so then it is a new API if we decide to leave it in

[13:47:30 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> but I'm wondering whether we want to bother now that we feel the themes should ship with focus styling

[13:47:42 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: Because they're ugly, (wink)

[13:48:07 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> (but, no, really, no one's explained to me why they're in FSS at all)

[13:49:18 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> jameswy: I think mist was fj's beginnings at an Infusion theme

[13:49:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled i'm not sure all themes should - maybe just contrast themes

[13:49:36 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> jameswy: I think the other ones were varying degrees of contrast

[13:49:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: there are focus styles that live in reset or base too

[13:49:55 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: why would we not want to ship focus styling in themes?

[13:51:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled maybe ppl want to use a theme but not have the focus styling (smile) i think it's inline with users complaining about :focus styling in our base (old reset) file

[13:51:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> which is why fl-focus was born in the first place

[13:51:30 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I'm getting the feeling that we are rehashing things that were hashed out a long time ago (smile)

[13:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: quite possibly

[13:52:08 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: this is feeling more and more to me like we should modify the UIO generated themes with focus

[13:52:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: possibly

[13:52:26 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> instead of removing fl-focus from anything

[13:53:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy Justin_o can you guys explain why :focus styling over fl-focus styling for contrast themes? and how this differs from :focus styling in the base file?

[13:53:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I guess that partly depends on if we think the contrast themes are generally usable as standard fss themes.. which i think from the UIO Generated files being there at all suggests

[13:53:58 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> michelled: That makes sense. I guess it's up to use to finish what fj started, (smile)

[13:54:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i believe the sentiment is that the themes are giving you a highly stylized page

[13:54:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> where as the base is, just a starting point for you to work from

[13:54:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o so should all themes then style :focus and not fl-focus .... ie. remove from theme API

[13:55:14 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i guess that's what we should decide now

[13:55:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy thoughts?

[13:55:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'm not sure i have a particular preference, but i think consistency would be good

[13:55:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> how does fl-focus live in the API now michelled?

[13:56:17 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I don't think I'll be very helpful in deciding that.

[13:56:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: this one seems a bit too general can we close it and just open new ones later http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/DECA-118

[13:56:36 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> (rather, I don't think my thoughts are very helpful for that)

[13:56:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy if all themes should style :focus over fl-focus

[13:56:37 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: I don't really know - I don't remember being a big part of the focus conversations

[13:56:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: or should we keep it around so we don't forget in case we don't get there for this release

[13:56:55 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: it looks to me like fl-focus is mostly used in the themse

[13:57:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled yeah but we're deciding to replace that with :focus it sounds like

[13:57:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> so fl-focus would only live where Justin_o? base and reset?

[13:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> er, base

[13:57:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> it's also being used in layout with fl-hidden-accessible

[13:57:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: yes, if we removed it from the themes

[13:58:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled that makes sense

[13:58:41 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> and it's in base-context and base-global

[13:58:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: DECA-118 is actually scheduled for Iteration 6. So we can link it there. It should be updated to be more descriptive of course.

[13:59:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: yah.. i'll add it for now and we can touch it up then

[13:59:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i dunno this is so confusing. we've set things up so that focus styling only happens with fl-focus. yet now we're saying if you use themes, that is no longer true.

[13:59:45 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> so I guess the question is: do we think that it's better to have something to scope :focus to other then a theme?

[13:59:57 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: sounds good.

[13:59:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: at the moment i think it sort of cuts across two of my tasks, that's all

[14:00:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I think it fits more properly under the "Export to image PDF w/ text overlay" bucket.

[14:01:01 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: correct me if I'm wrong - my understanding was that we introduced fl-focus because we needed to scope our focus styling to something rather then being heavy handed

[14:01:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled yep that's right

[14:01:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay, also.. isn't this one already finished http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/DECA-101

[14:01:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> or was there more to be done for calibration

[14:01:41 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> but if we scope it to the theme name then we aren't being heavy handed, are we?

[14:01:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: never mind, it was a parent issue

[14:02:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: okay

[14:02:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: that was a question for you (smile)

[14:02:35 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: do we have any docs about fl-focus?

[14:02:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled it's better yep. but what if someone has been happily using fl-focus on things, then adds a theme, and everything is focussed... fl-focus no longer respected

[14:02:56 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> checking

[14:03:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> is that ok? maybe it is

[14:03:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> will :focus over-ride fl-focus ?

[14:03:34 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> no, michelled, at the moment, no docs about fl-focus (which was probably an oversight)

[14:03:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i.e. will the focus be styled by the theme or the base?

[14:03:43 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: I imagine not - since the later would be more specific

[14:03:55 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> but you certainly know more about that then I do

[14:04:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled so that's why you were thinking we would remove all the fl-focus's in someones html?

[14:05:03 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> heidi_: the only reason I was thinking of removing it was because I was thinking of programatically adding it when someone selected a theme. but I now think that was a terrible idea so I don't want to add or remove the class programatically

[14:05:10 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I want to either:

[14:05:33 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 1. remove fl-focus from the theme files so focus styling is scoped to a theme

[14:05:56 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> or 2. add focus styling to the UIO generated theme files

[14:06:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy do you think the focus styling is important for UIO users or for all theme users

[14:09:51 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I think focus styling is important generally for all users, full stop.

[14:10:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> michelled so that's a vote for #1 - let's do it and move on with our lives hehe

[14:15:11 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, michelled, another bug: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4510 Text size adjustments not applying to the blue buttons in the demo, IE6 and IE7

[14:23:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: here's something to look at http://old.nabble.com/Let%27s-talk-about-FSS-td31035264.html#a31289536

[14:24:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: that one we might leave for future considerations

[14:24:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> out of curiosity could you look at the fss unit tests and see if the font size works there

[14:26:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: this is the jira http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3880

[14:33:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i have all of the liras for Decapod 0.5 represented on the planning page http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.5+Planning

[14:33:34 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, the unit test for font sizes seems to work fine for buttons - but I suspect the implementation is different: the unit tests use one of the canned FSS font size classes, e.g. fl-font-size-150, right on the <input>. That's not how UIO does it, is it?

[14:33:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> note that i have made liras for anything in the iterations past the first one

[14:33:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: ^, i'll do those as we get to each interation

[14:34:23 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> it seems colloquy's autocorrect doesn't like "jira" (smile)

[14:34:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks for checking, i was just wondering if changing the font size in buttons worked at all in IE 6 and IE 7

[14:34:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes, it likes to use "Jura" instead

[14:34:42 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> or lira

[14:34:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yura1: you might like that

[14:37:56 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ugh. Justin_o, michelled, the UIO dialogs are supposed to have focus styling on their controls now, right?

[14:38:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes

[14:38:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hm. Not seeing it in IE7

[14:38:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: hmm

[14:56:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, michelled, another (probably minor) bug: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4511 Textfield-slider doesn't clear invalid text entry if it starts with digits

[14:58:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: interesting, thanks for passing that along