fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-09-12

[09:07:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Morning, everyone
[09:12:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> hey colinclark - how's vacay
[09:12:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's done!
[09:12:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm "back"
[09:12:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> wb!
[09:13:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've been at the Open Video Conference in NYC this weekend, and there's an informal developer's session today I'm hanging out in
[09:13:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Thanks, heidi_!
[09:13:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm excited to be back
[09:14:37 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark what kind of things are ppl dev'ing?
[09:15:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: I'm really excited to tell you about the inclusive OER design workshop I facilitated yesterday
[09:15:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Based on your exercise with the Masters students in August
[09:15:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: The people at this session today are pretty much all platform developers
[09:16:08 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Awesome! Looking forward to hearing about it colinclark
[09:16:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in other words, the WebKit teams from Apple and Google, some Mozilla folks, and YouTube and WebM developers
[09:16:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> neat
[09:17:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: It was really fun, and the group came up with some really great project ideas
[09:18:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I structured as a "Who, Where, When, How?" exercise--they developed a mini-persona, talked through the context and environment in which their learners learned, and then thought about content and platforms that would best suit their learner's needs.
[09:19:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: Frighteningly, I was just asked to chair a session on Web audio APIs here at the conference, in absence of any of the Firefox or Chrome developers who have been working on it. Yack!
[09:20:11 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Sounds excellent. What kinds of users did they target for?
[09:20:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> They came up with three different personas
[09:20:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Derek, an elementary school student who was very tech-savvy and who had ADD
[09:20:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So they tried to structure in-class exercises that enabled some multitasking and physical movement
[09:21:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> as well as a online mobile supports at home and in the classroom
[09:21:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bessie, a retired lifelong learner living in a very rural area with no broadband connectivity
[09:21:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> They designed library-based services for OER
[09:22:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> including phone based playback of audio textbooks
[09:22:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and a library service that would gather together interesting resources and mail them to her on DVD
[09:22:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The last group had Shakir, a professor in Ghana. They designed an OER platform that was naturally progressively enhanced
[09:23:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it reminded me a lot of your simplification slider
[09:23:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark do you know a lot about web audio APIs?
[09:23:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Shakir's students could select how "complex" a presentation they wanted
[09:23:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: I'm really not sure. But I am making this: https://github.com/colinbdclark/Flocking
[09:24:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: So, every media-based OER started with a basic text-only format
[09:24:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> like a transcript
[09:24:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> then there was a basic HTML version
[09:24:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and more sophisticated audio, video, etc. if appropriate
[09:25:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> After they presented their learners and OERs to the group, we spent a bit of time talking about how we'd adapt each solution to the other groups' learners, which was fun
[09:25:07 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: Sound like a nice mix of users.
[09:25:31 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> That importance on the basic text-natural language-is a really important one
[09:26:15 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> As the lowest common denominator, it makes making alternatives much easier
[09:27:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: Yep, you're right
[09:27:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark the text as inital starting point is reminding me of a project jan and i worked on with debajmajig ... ojiway as an oral language
[09:27:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ojibway *is an oral lang
[09:27:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: yep, that's an interesting point
[09:27:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> since it immediately puts a higher technology burden on the content
[09:27:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and the "language" of face to face - expressions, jestures
[09:29:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yep, it's really interesting
[09:29:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: In that case, I guess video or animations become a very important medium?
[09:29:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark video yes
[09:30:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> there is also the non-linear aspect of it too
[09:30:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> conversational, circular, back n forth etc
[09:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> it's super interesting
[09:30:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> signlinking was attempting to make sections of video "linkable"
[09:31:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah, cool
[09:31:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> it was an interesting project.... cos we are SO used to linear straight text explanations
[09:31:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> as being the best way to convey info
[09:31:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess with things like HTML5 video and Popcorn.js and the like, doing that in a really interoperable way is a lot easier than it was when you were working on Signlink
[09:31:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah, that's pretty fascinating
[09:32:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> would be cool to revisit. northern communities have great high speed i think, and many oral langs, and info passed down that way
[09:32:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> that is how teaching happens i mean
[09:32:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> (generalizing, but you know what i mean)
[09:33:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy have you done anything on OERs for sign languages / oral langs?
[09:33:37 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> *any thinking
[09:36:06 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: We haven't done much thinking specifically about it, but I imagine captions/subtitles are "better" than sign language for digital material, and that audio media serves very well for oral language (though I suppose the question there is how one translates to and from oral languages)
[09:36:13 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Any thoughts you have in particular?
[09:37:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy just that it's complex but interesting. as i was saying above, an oral language it's so much more than the audio (words)
[09:39:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and also usually lacks the linearity that most of us are familiar with
[09:39:25 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: That's interesting… how is it non-linear?
[09:40:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy more organic, conversational, branches off into different paths
[09:40:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> it was really interesting trying to make an oral-language website
[09:40:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> at first they asked that the info be displayed in a circle
[09:41:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> to represent the non-rigidity of the information or something... the connectedness of everything etc etc. tricky themes to fit into a website format
[09:44:20 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Sounds like an awesome challenge!
[09:44:33 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Is the website still up somewhere?
[09:44:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy totally cool to think about - and an actual need for it
[09:44:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy hmm let me see
[09:46:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy doesn't look like it. http://www.debaj.ca/ was our partner tho
[09:48:15 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Do you think a site designed to maintain oral language integrity would be difficult for a user unfamiliar with oral languages?
[09:49:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy not if it was accessible captions etc
[09:50:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy i remember really being hit with having to change my mentality from insisting "this is how websites work" to "how can we make what you need via a website"
[09:50:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> if that makes sense
[09:50:30 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Does accessible = usable?
[09:51:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy yes but maybe more emphasis on perceivable
[09:54:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: The other thing that I was interested in at this conference with the Internet Archive's new 9/11 archive
[09:54:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the UI is interesting
[09:54:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess they're missing a lot of metadata
[09:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> They've archived TV broadcasts from a large number of international TV stations
[09:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> for the week from Sept. 11 to 17
[09:55:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Other than that, they have no captions, no real metadata
[09:55:13 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: http://www.archive.org/details/911 ?
[09:55:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so they had to build a very visual interface
[09:55:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yep, that's it
[09:55:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so click on one of the "day of the week" links at the top
[09:55:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and you can see their media browser
[09:56:39 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Wow.
[09:58:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What do you think, jameswy?
[09:58:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The content is very moving and often disturbing
[09:58:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so I hope it's not to bleak
[09:58:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but
[09:59:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> what about the UI?
[10:02:57 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> colinclark: I think the timeline interface is fitting--the progression of events is important, and I like how they put in markers for significant events. A geography-based interface would've been less useful, since their breadth of stations is limited. The visuals are a bit overwhelming, but I think appropriate, and not to the point of difficult to use (it encourages exploration, which is part of the purpose, I imagine)
[10:03:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Interestingly, they also had a very long poster
[10:03:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> with a printout of that timeline
[10:03:22 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> The use of multi-layered modal dialogues is curious.
[10:03:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> erm, yes
[10:03:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> curious
[10:03:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark>
[10:04:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o and michelled: How are things going with our beloved 1.4 release?
[10:05:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: testing it going on now with a couple of pull requests that need to reviewed still for UIO
[10:06:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Testing's going well?
[10:06:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I can imagine those IE VMs boot up awfully fast on everyone's fancy new hardware
[10:10:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o did we figure out a mac 10.6 vs 10.7 thing? i'm still testing on 10.6 but you all have 10.7
[10:11:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: for this release at least i think we're sticking with 10.6
[10:12:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[10:12:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i have a 10.6 machine and anastasia's old iMac does too.. and it's accessible for anyone one in the office to use
[10:14:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm still running 10.6 on my "beast," if it helps any
[10:14:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> oh the irony
[10:14:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> amazing how fast technology goes out of date
[10:15:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> especially in the face of fancy solid state drives and really high-rez screens like you guys have
[10:17:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: you'll have yours soon too
[10:18:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Tomorrow, I guess
[10:18:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not totally sure I want to be Lionized
[10:18:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> are people digging Lion so far on their laptops?
[10:19:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i love it
[10:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's a very royal and regal cat
[10:19:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[10:19:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: What do you think of it?
[10:20:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark haven't played with it enough yet. what i love are those mice!
[10:20:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i left my lappy at the office
[10:20:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i can't get too attached to it with mat leave coming up
[10:20:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[10:27:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> michelled: do you have time early this afternoon to test out a design with me?
[10:28:06 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> jhung: yep - do you have a time in mind?
[10:28:23 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Around 1p?
[10:28:57 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> actually I've got a meeting at that time - we could meet after standup or at 2
[10:29:11 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> How about 2p?
[10:29:15 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> sounds good
[10:29:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> https://connect.ocad.ca/fluid-work not working for me. jhung , you?
[10:29:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> nor for me
[10:30:12 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah. Down for me too
[10:30:34 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Backup Breeze is down too.
[10:31:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> channel stand up?
[10:31:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The York breeze seems to be working for me
[10:31:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not for others?
[10:31:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> url?
[10:31:45 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Was just able to get in now.
[10:31:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> http://connect.yorku.ca/fluidwork
[10:41:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jhung: Can you fill me in on the details of the genpdf issue?
[10:41:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You're saying the version in our repo actively doesn't work?
[10:41:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but there is a version floating around that does work? Any tradeoffs or issues with this version?
[10:42:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and if not, can we just get the author to commit it to hg?
[10:42:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: I should have clarified that. 0.4 works as we tagged it.
[10:42:29 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> however, the tip version (which includes Michael Cutter's work) does not.
[10:43:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hasan has been working on type 4 PDF generation and his code appears to be working.
[10:43:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[10:43:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> do we know why it was broken, and why it was fix?
[10:43:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> fixed
[10:43:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In other words, did Hasan actively fix some bugs that are in the repository?
[10:44:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or is it some kind of side effect, or one code path working and the other not?
[10:44:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> colinclark: it appears to be a pathing issue with Michael's code. Despite the shared libraries being installed in the right places, the current tip (aka. Michael's code) can not find the decapod shared object.
[10:44:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> *correction ocropus shared object.
[10:45:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So Hasan fixed that issue somewhere along the way?
[10:45:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> it appears that way. I have both the tip and hasan's installed in the same instance and Hasan's works.
[10:45:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[10:45:55 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> That said, I only tested type 2 so far. Still have yet to test type 3 or 1.
[10:46:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is there any reason why Hasan's fixes just shouldn't be committed, assuming the other types work?
[10:46:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Assuming type 1 to 3 work, then there shouldn't be any reason to not put it in.
[10:49:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[10:50:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Let me know what your testing turns up
[10:50:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then, if necessary, I can send an email about keeping builds working
[10:50:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and hopefully flattering hasan into committing his code
[10:51:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o, michelled: Jörn has written a good article on unit testing at SoundCloud: http://backstage.soundcloud.com/2011/09/mobile-unit-testing/
[10:58:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks i'll take a look
[11:14:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> mlam did you get rid of the green shading behind the uploader status bar/totals?
[11:14:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> the progress is only behind the files now right?
[11:17:49 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> heidi_: no i didn't
[11:23:59 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark the uploader no longr has a progress bar behind the status bar/totals - has that been removed?
[11:24:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Not that I know of
[11:24:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sounds like a regression to me
[11:25:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark ok i'll make a jira - is it a blocker?
[11:25:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> the progress bars behind the files are still there
[11:25:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll defer to jameswy and Justin_o on that question
[11:36:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy Justin_o - blocker? ^
[11:37:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i'll take a look.. jameswy is out at the moment
[11:37:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o try uploading a file from http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/uploader/html/uploader.html
[11:38:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i'm leaning towards not a blocker.. but i'll talk it over with james when he gets back
[11:39:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool thanks can you update FLUID-4438 when you decide
[11:42:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o is there a way to add the max # files limit to our build site uploader?
[11:43:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i'm not sure how to test that part
[11:43:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: it's there for the server version
[11:43:22 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Nope, not a blocker.
[11:43:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o ah, what's the url to it?
[11:43:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy ok thanks
[11:43:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: but that looks like it isn't working.. hmm
[11:44:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> mlam, colinclark, cindyli: any idea why the server example of the builder is not working
[11:44:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o what's the url to the uploader server version?
[11:50:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> http://build.fluidproject.org/image-gallery/image-gallery.php
[11:51:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah yeah that's the one i tried too. cindy at the office Justin_o?
[11:51:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> she is but not at her desk now
[12:08:34 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Justin_o: no idea about the builder. cindyli any ideas?
[12:18:10 CDT(-0500)] <clown> cindyli: are you there?
[12:18:21 CDT(-0500)] <clown> see, it works!
[12:20:22 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Justin_o, mlam, was the question about builder that image-gallery link is not accessible?
[12:22:28 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't know too. seems we should check the apache setting on the url mapping. Aaron might know.
[12:23:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cindyli is there an alternate url for http://build.fluidproject.org/image-gallery/image-gallery.php
[12:23:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> checking..
[12:29:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> harriswong: do you have 15 minutes to spare to do a little user testing for me?
[12:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> sure juhung
[12:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> no luck, heidi_, would the image gallery hourly build work for you ? http://build.fluidproject.org/uploader/hourly/image-gallery.php
[12:32:50 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> jhung*
[12:32:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung>
[12:32:57 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> finger slipped
[12:33:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Skype?
[12:33:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cindyli sweet yeah i can test this
[12:33:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> thanks
[12:33:20 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> sure let me install that one s.
[12:33:28 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np, heidi_
[12:51:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cindyli did you email aaron about the broken build url
[12:51:38 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> if not, i can
[12:51:49 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i didn't, heidi_
[12:51:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[13:07:06 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> michelled: ping me when you're free to chat.
[13:14:33 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> sorry jhung - our meeting is stretching a little
[13:16:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> michelled: not a problem. Let me know when you're free.
[13:19:35 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> jhung: I'm done
[13:19:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> cool. Skype michelled?
[13:20:07 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yep
[13:36:27 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> Justin_o: are you around?
[13:37:34 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> the nightly build for the image-gallery is broken
[13:38:04 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> "fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git"
[13:38:06 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> is the error
[13:38:19 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it looks like something is wonky, but i don't have the login to fix it
[13:38:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> huslage: Where are you seeing the error?
[13:38:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> continuum
[13:38:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I have a break in sessions, I can take a quick peek
[13:38:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> link?
[13:38:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> welcome back, btw, huslage
[13:38:51 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> http://build.fluidproject.org/continuum/scmResult.action?projectScmRootId=51&amp;projectGroupId=14
[13:38:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sounds like your conference was really awesome
[13:38:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks!
[13:38:55 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> likewise colinclark
[13:39:01 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yes it was amazing
[13:39:04 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> too many ideas
[13:39:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Denver's a reasonably okay city
[13:39:18 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah i was impressed
[13:39:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> especially when baseball is involved
[13:39:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess you probably didn't get a chance to see Boulder
[13:39:29 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> no sadly
[13:42:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> huslage: it's very bizarre
[13:42:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it looks like somehow the working directory for this project has been eaten
[13:43:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is it safe to just hose a continuum working directory, and assume it will recreate it as needed?
[13:43:13 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yeah but i thought it would recreate them
[13:43:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> okay, lemme get fancy with rm
[13:43:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and watch me make a mess
[13:43:45 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ok
[13:44:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> okay, I've forgotten Justin's username for continuum
[13:45:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not to mention how insane it is that I use Justin's user name
[13:45:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> is anyone able to log into continuum?
[13:46:11 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i can login but i can't administer
[13:46:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> frack
[13:46:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: um.. i'm i'll try, but i'm not sure i remember the password. AC had to change it for me because it had expired
[13:46:54 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it doesn't actually expire
[13:46:57 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> it just says it does
[13:46:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> this is all, for the record, fairly insane
[13:47:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark>
[13:47:09 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> yes. aren't we gonna fix this now that you're back
[13:47:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think we were going to burn it to the ground, yes
[13:47:26 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> sw8
[13:47:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll just rm -rf the whole continuum directory
[13:47:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you can delete the whole VM
[13:47:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> then we're done
[13:47:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yah.. i can't login
[13:47:49 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> works for me. just don't whine that it doesn't work
[13:48:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i'm going to reset my pw
[13:48:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yay!
[13:48:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Is your account an administrator? And if so, can you make huslage's account an admin, too?
[13:49:10 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i thought we had done that, colinclark, but it appears to have forgotten
[13:49:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sure.. just waiting for the password reset
[13:49:30 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> who's resetting it?
[13:49:33 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i'm confused
[13:49:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: While you're at it, can you make a few other accounts?
[13:49:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and maybe hand them around randomly
[13:49:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> have a contest
[13:49:47 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> lol
[13:49:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anyone in the channel who can answer a basic math question gets root
[13:50:08 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> 4!
[13:50:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> 0 + 0 = ?
[13:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> I WIN!!!
[13:50:11 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> oh
[13:50:14 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> shit
[13:50:22 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i already "won" that contest
[13:51:59 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> so what do i need to do? continuum appears to not operate in a plane of existence I'm familiar with
[13:52:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> well, this is sort of interesting
[13:52:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> worst case, we wait an hour
[13:52:24 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> for some value of interesting
[13:52:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes, that
[13:52:33 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> heidi emailed me about this a couple of hours ago
[13:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> well, huslage, I guess we're both back...
[13:52:55 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> lol
[13:53:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'd say provision a fresh, hot new VM
[13:53:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Put the latest and greatest Jenkins on it
[13:53:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> as well as Git, Ant, and a few of the key basics
[13:53:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then maybe tomorrow we can start to build the new system
[13:53:33 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i'm too brain dead from a red eye last night and lack of sleep to do that. but i'll work on it in the morning.
[13:53:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> fair enough
[13:53:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Tomorrow morning, let's do it
[13:53:59 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i was mostly just making sure something didn't catch fire, which it did, so i logged on to fix the thing
[13:54:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> there's no point in us just complaining about how much continuum sucks, as fun as it really is
[13:54:14 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> indeed your plan is golden
[13:54:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> huslage: Go back to bed, we'll be fine
[13:54:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've at least got shell access
[13:54:37 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> cool. i feel like i've failed heidi_ again. sorry
[13:54:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you might want to add your ssh key to the continuum user on build.fluidproject.org
[13:54:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then you can log in, too
[13:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i'm logged in
[13:54:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_'s very forgiving, don't worry
[13:54:49 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i haz root
[13:54:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[13:54:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> right
[13:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that
[13:55:09 CDT(-0500)] <huslage>
[13:55:12 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> ttyl
[13:55:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i've broken back into continuum
[13:55:41 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> haxx0r
[14:08:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: have you tested your FLUID-4362 branch in IE 8?
[14:11:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Looks like the Gallery is back...
[14:11:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> http://build.fluidproject.org/image-gallery/image-gallery.php
[14:11:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but not fully working
[14:12:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: yes.. it's like it's just the template
[14:15:31 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: the clear fix demo issue is 4440
[14:16:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: thanks
[14:39:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: i've made FLUID-4440 a blocker
[14:48:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o was 4362 ok in I8?
[14:48:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark Justin_o i emailed aaron about it - image gallery working now?
[14:51:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: No, it's not
[14:51:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> we've got some problems with our build server
[14:52:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yeah http://build.fluidproject.org/uploader/hourly/image-gallery.php isn't working either
[14:53:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> funny you mention that URL, heidi_
[14:53:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> seems to be working for me
[14:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Now I'm a bit perplexed
[14:53:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark are you able to upload something ?
[14:53:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yep
[14:53:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I put up a couple of pictures of the skydome
[14:54:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the styling of Uploader has changed so much
[14:54:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's looking a bit more solid than it used to, which is nice
[14:54:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: What is the problem you are seeing?
[14:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> For the nightly build, I'm guessing we'll just have to wait until tomorrow morning to see it in action
[14:55:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark the progress bar flickers back n forth on the file
[14:55:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> HTTP status code: 403 ?
[14:56:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It updates oddly for me, too, but it does upload the file
[14:56:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> what are you trying to upload, heidi_?
[14:56:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark like a 250mb pdf ... it jumps to the next file, but doesn't give any check marks
[14:57:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't believe it supports PDF files
[14:57:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> intentionally
[14:57:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and the 403 status code
[14:57:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but you should get one of cindyli error message from the gallery app itself
[14:57:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yeah... no it just acts freaky. do you have a pdf you can try colinclark?
[14:58:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I just did
[14:58:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Uploader politely tells me there was an error
[14:58:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "Uploaded: 0 of 1 file (0.0 KB), 1 error"
[14:58:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> And then cindyli's gallery, somewhat more abruptly, tells me in a green box:
[14:58:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "HTTP status code: 403 FirefoxScreenSnapz001.pdf failed to upload."
[14:59:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah, yeah i get the green box
[14:59:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and Uploaded: 0 of 3 files (0.0 KB), 2 errors
[14:59:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> but doesn't say what the error is
[14:59:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's correct
[14:59:39 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes, only 403 without the detail message
[14:59:42 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> that's correct
[14:59:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> If it's a server-side error, it's the server's job to inform the user
[15:00:24 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't think it's a server side error
[15:00:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it is if she's getting a 403, no?
[15:00:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark hm, it feels broken, i think cos of the weird progress bar and the numbers going up. also my 'add more' is disabled now
[15:01:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> this is a bit of a bigger issue, heidi_
[15:01:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not an easy one to resolve
[15:01:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: If the error can only be detected on the server, how could we not upload the file?
[15:01:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The weird progress bar is probably a legitimate bug
[15:01:49 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> let me double check if the server script still checks on file types
[15:01:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and if the Add More is disable, that's also a separate bug
[15:02:09 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i feel the file types are set dynamically into uploader setting
[15:02:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cindyli: they are
[15:02:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I believe no HTML5 browser currently filters them out
[15:02:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark feels like before it tries to do stuff (cause flickery progress bar/numbers) it should immediately shoot an error cos it's a pdf ?
[15:02:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: How could it?
[15:02:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and explicitly say "not a supported file type"
[15:03:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> No HTML5 browser currently supports the filtering of file types with a input type="file"
[15:03:05 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark check the extension?
[15:03:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Meaning, we have no API
[15:03:21 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes, colinclark, html5 responds the server error back, but not the flash version of uploader
[15:03:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Right, we've got a whole bunch of layers of stupid bugs here
[15:04:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and of course the behaviour will be different between Flash and HTML5
[15:04:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in 1.5 we'll likely retire the Flash version, which'll be nice
[15:04:21 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> am still getting the super flickery bar/numbers with jpg
[15:04:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but we've got some browser implementation bugs in the meantime
[15:04:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: That's a real bug
[15:04:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you've got to split them up into discrete chunks
[15:04:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There should be an issue filed already for the fact that the HTML5 version doesn't filter based on file types as it is supposed to
[15:05:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Then it sounds like both the weird progress bar and the disabled Add More button are two new bugs
[15:05:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ok i'll file those
[15:05:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> does that seem about right, heidi_ ?
[15:05:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i think the flickery numbers might be why the progress bar is weird? is it following the number value's lead?
[15:06:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yep
[15:06:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The odd question, though, is why you seem to be successfully able to add a file larger than 20 MB
[15:06:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> When I add a 27 MB PDF to the queue, it immediately tells me it's too big
[15:07:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which is the correct behaviour, at least for the Image Gallery app
[15:08:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> did i upload a big file?
[15:08:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> or you did?
[15:09:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You said you had a 250 MB PDF
[15:09:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or did you mean KB or something?
[15:09:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yeah meant kb oops
[15:10:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, good
[15:10:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so at least we don't have three bugs
[15:10:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_>
[15:10:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i get the nice 'too large' error too
[15:10:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> tho grammar not great "1 files were too large "
[15:11:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes
[15:11:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not very awesome
[15:11:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Given the code for converting between MIME types and file extensions that mlam added in the last release, I think we could write our own code to exclude by file extension as you suggest, heidi_
[15:11:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's not our job, according to the HTML5 spec
[15:11:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's browser's job
[15:11:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but they aren't doing it
[15:12:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It'll take a bit of work
[15:12:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in that the spec, and thus our API, allows users to do things like filter based on wildcards
[15:12:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> allowing, say "image/*"
[15:13:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark ah...funny the browser doesn't catch it. seems like such a basic thing
[15:13:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah, it's really annoying
[15:13:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I forget exactly the details
[15:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but if I remember, the guy from Mozilla who implemented it said something like "We don't think users really want this feature"
[15:14:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> erm, right
[15:14:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyway, I don't think we should do it for 1.4
[15:14:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but your messed up progress and disabled Add More strike me as real issues
[15:15:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll leave it to Justin_o and jameswy to determine blockerageness again
[15:15:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I'll fix 'em if they need fixing
[15:15:38 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool i'll do the jiras up now
[15:15:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've got to catch a plane now
[15:15:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and a lil one for the grammar
[15:15:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> see you all in the office tomorrow
[15:16:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> happy flying!
[15:16:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: I hope the grammar one is already filed
[15:16:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you might want to check
[15:16:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k
[15:16:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> bye
[15:16:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks again for catching these
[15:16:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> np see you tomorra
[15:18:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: sorry i haven't been following can you fill me in
[15:18:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o two biggish bugs on http://build.fluidproject.org/uploader/hourly/image-gallery.php
[15:18:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> when uploading a file, the progress bar/number flickers
[15:18:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and second is when you upload a file and it fails, the add more remains disabled
[15:19:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: these are specific to the demo.. or with uploader itself?
[15:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o i guess i have no way of knowing?
[15:22:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o blocker?
[15:23:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o jameswy http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4442
[15:24:02 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I don't think 4442 is a blocker, but the other one you've described sounds pretty bad to me.
[15:24:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy have you seen 4442 in action? kind of brutal
[15:24:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_, jameswy: i think if they are specific to this demo than they are not blockers
[15:25:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o how would it be specific to this demo
[15:26:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: if it had something to do with extra functionality or something
[15:27:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o how can we know
[15:27:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i guess we can start by asking cindyli
[15:27:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o oh good idea ...cindyli !
[15:28:15 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> catching up the conversation
[15:30:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cindyli thoughts on why 4442 is happening?
[15:30:49 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> umm.. i don't see "the progress bar goes back and forth and the uploaded size value also goes up and down"
[15:30:57 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> when trying with demo
[15:31:20 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I can't seem to replicate 4442.
[15:32:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy colin was able to. try a bigger file maybe?
[15:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i wonder cindyli if there's something weird about being outside the network?
[15:33:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> can either of you replicate http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4443
[15:33:44 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> heidi_: do u mean outisde the intranet?
[15:33:51 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> should not make difference
[15:33:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cindyli yeah didn't think so
[15:34:42 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Tried using larger files, but still can't replicate. It's possible our network here is too fast for it to be noticeable.
[15:36:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy how about http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4443 ?
[15:36:51 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> heidi_: i can reproduce 4443
[15:37:00 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> not 4442 tho, tried with a 10M file
[15:37:12 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: We could replicate that one. Incidentally, it only happens when there are no other acceptable filet to upload. If you add an acceptable file to the mix, it works.
[15:37:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy could you add that as a comment?
[15:37:40 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't think 4443 is demo specific
[15:43:08 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy is 4443 a blocker
[15:43:41 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Yes.
[15:43:47 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: Do you agree?
[15:48:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: interestingly i just talked to greggy1 about these and we couldn't reproduce either.. but it may have something do with the atutor context
[15:48:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: also how fast was the flickering
[15:48:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o good call checking there. what's the url? maybe i can try on my slower network
[15:49:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o fast. show you on skype?
[15:49:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: sure
[15:49:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o k oneeee sec
[15:50:08 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o call me?
[16:01:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: thanks for showing those to me
[16:01:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> np