fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-09-09

[08:42:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> huslage any luck with snow dev site?
[08:43:12 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> no. i got busy packing for my trip yesterday. i'll try to work on it today at some point.
[08:43:36 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i ended up having to go buy a bunch of clothes and crap because none of my cooler weather clothes fit me anymore
[08:43:42 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> (a good problem, but sucks for you)
[08:44:07 CDT(-0500)] <huslage> i'm in denver at a conference, so i'll be on and off all weekend.
[08:59:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> huslage okay thanks aaron! enjoy denver
[09:13:33 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> good morning, fluid-everyone, and welcome to day two of the docs sprint
[09:13:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> please let everyone know here in the channel what you're working on this morning
[09:14:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm going to try to finish up the Table of Contents subcomponent documentation this morning
[09:15:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: what was the wiki page with the tasks again?
[09:15:35 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+September+2011
[09:17:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac finishing looking over/editing FSS demos. hoping to wrap up this morning, then take on something else
[09:17:42 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, heidi_
[09:17:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[09:19:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think i'm done this one, but please review and let me know if it needs changes.. i didn't add much http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Component+Grades
[09:19:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, Justin_o, I'll have a look
[09:25:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i'll start in on the code review of this one http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/UI+Options+-+Default
[09:25:36 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, excellent, thanks
[09:28:21 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yura, are you able to help with the docs sprint today?
[09:28:48 CDT(-0500)] <yura> anastasiac: i currently have 2 blockers for cspace, but i will as soon as i m done with them
[09:28:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> excellent, thanks
[09:29:12 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mike, how about you? are you able to do some docs work today?
[09:29:35 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, mike seems to not be here
[09:29:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, do you have time for docs today?
[09:30:10 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yes anastasiac I intend to finish what I started yesterday
[09:30:25 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> when I get that done I'll ping you for more work
[09:30:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> that's great, michelled, thanks
[09:31:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jameswy, how about you? are you able to spend some cycles on docs today?
[09:31:32 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anastasiac: I can. What's up for grabs?
[09:32:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jameswy, a general design double-check of the docs space: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Infusion+Documentation would be helpful for a start (keeping in mind that it's only a partial step toward the goal described by the designs: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Infusion+documentation+redesign+%28April+2011%29 )
[09:34:21 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yura, I have a question about invokers: I know you can override a default invoker using a demands block, but is it possible to override a default invoker through old-fashioned options? and if so, is that "acceptable" ?
[09:36:00 CDT(-0500)] <yura> anastasiac: yes, you could do that if you provide a new funcName and/or args, generally not the best thing to do since the whole purpose of invokers is to be configured by IoC and the framework , i would think
[09:36:37 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, yura, so if I'm writing docs saying "you can override an invoker" then the example showing how should use a demands block, then, right?
[09:36:54 CDT(-0500)] <yura> yes i would thing so
[09:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> great, thanks yura
[09:37:13 CDT(-0500)] <yura> np
[09:38:00 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, the code for the uio instructional demos you're reviewing is in a github mirror of infusion, at https://github.com/acheetham/Infusion-Instructional-Demos so if you find any errors, you could just go ahead and fix them
[09:43:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks.. appreciate that
[10:12:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: just checking.. is there a reason for how you have the code in the html file?
[10:14:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, no, not really. It was simply one of the possibilities. The other would be to have them separate, and have multiple "inclusions" in the wiki page. I think I was also thinking forward to when the "including" would be into a confluence page, but into the new docs platform, and the act of inclusion would be accomplished by a JS component that would extract headers, etc. from a source file and inject them into a docs page. I think I was thinking
[10:14:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> in that future world, a single source file would be easier to work with.
[10:15:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: okay.. do you think a comment above the script block indicating that in typical use it would be in a separate file would make sense?
[10:15:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I could probably add this or make a pull request if you think it would help
[10:16:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, if it would be better to have them in a separate file, the 'proper' solution would probably be to actually split it into separate files
[10:16:31 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> it wouldn't be much work
[10:17:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I could possible work on that a bit next week
[10:17:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: okay.. so for now i'll just ignore that
[10:17:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, sounds good
[10:18:29 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac: regarding UI enhancer API - http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/UI+Enhancer, the event "onReady" has been replaced by "onCreateTOCReady", should I modify the doc?
[10:18:48 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, yes, please - if you find any errors or changes, please make them
[10:18:57 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> cool. thanks
[10:19:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: what do you think about not using the cookie store for your demos?
[10:19:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I see the benefits of that… I worry about how to implement it without confusing the reader
[10:20:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: what i'm seeing is that if you save changes in the default for example it will affect what you get in the other examples
[10:20:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes.. it could be more confusing..
[10:20:36 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes, exactly. What alternative would you suggest?
[10:21:23 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I suppose an alternative store could be demanded in a completely separate file that isn't accessible through the wiki page, and which is commented to the hilt explaining why it's happening.
[10:21:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes.. that might work
[10:21:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'd have to try it out to make sure it didn't really affect the official demo code. I think the only addition would be the definition of a context
[10:22:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so what could you use instead of a cookie store? jQuery data, maybe?
[10:22:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think there is already another store option
[10:22:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> let me check
[10:22:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes.. it's called the temp store
[10:23:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> fluid.tempStore
[10:23:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, excellent - I missed that. ok, that's great
[10:23:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so we'd just demand that in place of the cookieStore
[11:05:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi anastasiac - I'm just reviewing "onion rings" guide now
[11:05:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I really like the diagram on http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Pick+a+component+type
[11:05:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I think, in some kind of interesting way, it has actually been drawn "inside out".......
[11:05:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That is, that those things which contain other things should actually be contained by them : P
[11:06:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> interesting. that sounds backward. I think I'd have to see what your version looks like. maybe we could user-test them
[11:06:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks so much for looking at the tutorials, Bosmon
[11:06:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, drawing circles which contain things creates the idea that "things could be put in the circles"
[11:07:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which in turn makes it seem like "fewer things are little components than are renderer components"
[11:07:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Given that the circle representing little components is drawn inside the circle for renderer components
[11:07:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Whereas in fact the opposite is the case....
[11:07:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Almost EVERYTHING is a little component, and hence that should be the biggest circle, in my view
[11:08:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> As a general point, given the quite linear nature of this bit of the docs, perhaps it could be a good idea to have "next/previous" links on all of these pages?
[11:09:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, I do have a 'next' link at the bottom of each page, and I was certainly considering adding 'previous' and 'up'. I just got lazy - I was looking for a confluence macro that would do it for me
[11:10:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah yes, I see it now
[11:10:54 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> obviously, it's not prominent enough
[11:11:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> good to know
[11:11:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess it is because it is very similar in style to the Confluence-generated links "Add Labels", "Add Comments" ....
[11:13:53 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, I'm wondering if you could have a look at drafts of how to document invoker methods, as we discussed. I'm not sure if what I've got is understandable/helpful
[11:15:37 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Table+of+Contents+Model+Builder for invokers that don't have default arguments defined and for one that does. Also, feedback on the "introductory paragraph" would be great
[11:15:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> sorry: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Preview for one that does
[11:17:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh anastasiac, btw, I meant to answer the question you asked, I think now more than a week ago, about the use of the 2nd argument to "requestChange" on line 122 of UIOptions.js, in the textfieldSlider
[11:17:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This was a very good question....
[11:17:48 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, regarding the diagram: the intention was NOT a venn diagram i.e. not indicating what is or isn't a little component. The intention was more to indicate that view components have a little component at their heart
[11:18:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> anastasiac - ok - but I'm not sure they do "really" - this isn't OO after all And it does look quite a lot like a Venn diagram : P
[11:18:28 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> and that renderer components are a kind of wrapper around view components, etc
[11:18:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> So, the use of the "source" argument in these cases is primarily meant to be for purposes like "backwash detection", an issue you may remember from the very old days
[11:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, I'll show the diagram and its alternative to a few people. it's great to get this feedback
[11:19:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Unfortunately since the design of UIOptions is quite broken, the argument is currently useless
[11:19:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it is there for "future expansion" : P
[11:19:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> At the moment, UIOptions only avoids backwash through sheer accident, and if it were modified in any serious way it would probably become cyclic again
[12:27:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: I've finished looking over the uio instructional demos code... so the only things were the moving the js to a separate file which you said you'd look at later, and some missing css files in some of the demos which i sent you a pull request for
[12:28:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> excellent, thanks, Justin_o. So other than that, the code looks ok?
[12:28:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: yes.. i think so
[12:28:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> great, thanks Justin_o
[12:29:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: how are you indicating which of the tasks are done?
[12:29:44 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, by adding the green check mark next to them - I just updated the ones you've done
[12:30:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> anastasiac - "mergeOptions" and "mergeAllOptions" should be removed from the "Would Really be Great" section since we are planning to remove them immediately in the next release
[12:30:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> They are sort of "emergency" features which are quite hard to use
[12:30:19 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, Bosmon
[12:30:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[12:31:33 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In terms of IoC debugging, the single most useful thing to suggest is to hunt up and down the stack until you can find a frame in which you can see the "instantiator"
[12:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Inside there is a very helpful structure named "pathToComponent"
[12:32:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This contains all the components which have been instantiated so far, indexed by EL path
[12:50:20 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac: i've reviewed UIO API. made some changes into UI Enhancer and Sliding Panel. I've marked green checks besides those docs. what's next I can help with?
[12:50:37 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, excellent, thanks so much
[12:50:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac have you found an easy way to over-ride confluence's styles? they're over-riding our fss for http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/FSS+Text+-+Font+size
[12:51:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, I think the documentation for produceTree() is out of date, I was wondering if you could double-check it. There are some links on the planning page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+September+2011. If you search that page for your name, you should find them
[12:52:02 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, the only way I've found is selector specificity
[12:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac this will be fun then..ha.. i'll try to haggle with it
[12:53:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, heidi_
[12:53:13 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i will try, anastasiac
[13:53:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yura, how are things coming with IoC docs? is there anything I can help with?
[13:54:11 CDT(-0500)] <yura> I am at the context page right now
[13:54:16 CDT(-0500)] <yura> it's coming along
[13:54:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> great, thanks
[13:54:47 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, how are things coming with the renderer decorators docs? is there anything I can help with?
[13:55:18 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I was actually just about to ping you and ask what you thought we should do about functions that we expect will be deprecated before long
[13:55:55 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> apparently 'getDecoratorComponents' fills a gap in the way the framework works at the moment
[13:56:44 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> but once additive demands blocks works as Bosmon has designed them it will no longer be needed
[13:58:15 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Bosmon: is that true for clearDecorators and visitDecorators as well?
[13:58:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess so, yes
[13:58:40 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> The idea is that before too long, people will not need to "find" components any more
[13:59:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Although I guess it's not 100% clear that that vision is completely realisable
[13:59:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But yes, the expectation is that once additive demands blocks work, it should be possible to start working in a "findless" world - we can only see how things turn out
[14:01:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: I'm pretty well wrapped up all the tasks you had me down for that can be documented at this point.. is there anything you'd like me to pick up, or any one I could help out
[14:01:46 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yura: are you using those functions in cspace now?
[14:02:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, the CookieStore subcomponent has no documentation yet, you could perhaps add a page for that? You could start with a copy of another subcomponent (say, Links Controls) which should get you most of the formatting
[14:03:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: sure.. i'll take a look at that
[14:03:05 CDT(-0500)] <yura> michelled: i don't think i do directly
[14:03:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks
[14:03:35 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Bosmon: where do those functions get used now? how are you expecting people to use them?
[14:04:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, sorry - just saw your response now. Bosmon, are you basically saying that these functions are going to go away? And if so, how soon? soon enough that we shouldn't bother documenting them? If so, that would be because we don't really expect that anyone will use them
[14:35:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm not really sure
[14:38:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Unlike "mergeOptions" etc., "getDecoratorComponents" won't be actively destroyed immediately
[14:38:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But we expect that it will become unnecessary and then removed in time
[15:00:27 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac: I'm half way thru modifying http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Renderer-bearing+Components. i have to go now, will finish it off on Monday
[15:41:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> fluid-everyone, thanks so much for a great Docs Sprint. We got an amazing amount accomplished.
[15:41:52 CDT(-0500)] <clown> you're welcome anastasiac
[15:42:00 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac>
[15:42:05 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac thanks for your great organising! you've done so much work with the docs
[15:42:48 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, they're certainly shaping up. I'm hoping jameswy might have some input on how to improve them.
[15:43:42 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, I'm off to see a movie. Have a great week next week everyone, and good luck with the release. I'm sure I'll be checking email occasionally, so let me know if there are any emergencies.