fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-02-02

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Last updated: Feb 02, 2011Version comment
21 min read

[07:21:24 CST(-0600)] <ering> hi jamon, does armin know about snow day?
[08:01:59 CST(-0600)] <mlam> justin_o: svn is frozen for commits, but we can still checkout from the old repository, right?
[08:02:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> mlam: yes, you should be able to
[08:02:22 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> are you having any issues with that?
[08:02:43 CST(-0600)] <mlam> it doesn't look like it.. just wanted to make sure
[08:03:09 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> okay.. also you can start using git now
[08:03:14 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> it should be up-to-date
[08:03:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile)
[08:03:33 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i forked off infusion into my own github space already
[08:03:54 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: have you tried it out yet..
[08:04:01 CST(-0600)] <michelled> no justin_o
[08:04:14 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I might wait for the primer you're going to give us (wink)
[08:04:26 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: (smile) when do you think that should be
[08:04:54 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> I've been collecting some info but need to piece it all together and make a presentation
[08:04:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I was thinking today's dev meeting but it might be harder with everyone remote
[08:05:04 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: yah...
[08:05:35 CST(-0600)] <michelled> justin_o: do you think you'd be able to do it tomorrow?
[08:05:46 CST(-0600)] <michelled> Friday is the open house so we won't be able to use the collaboration room
[08:05:54 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> right
[08:06:03 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> okay... i guess so.. tomorrow afternoon?
[08:06:09 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i better get started on it today then (smile)
[08:06:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile) ya, I know it's soon but I figure the sooner you do that the more time you save for everyone else
[08:11:54 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: ys.. that's very true
[08:43:34 CST(-0600)] <michelled> justin_o, anastasiac: so my 10 minutes of JIRA gardening a day has paid off - I'm down to 5 JIRAs which have no component
[08:43:49 CST(-0600)] <michelled> what component do you think JIRAs relating to final reports should have?
[08:43:58 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> yay!!! congrats, that's quite a feat!
[08:44:06 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> hm...
[08:44:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: great job michelle, thanks... but tough question
[08:44:19 CST(-0600)] * anastasiac launches jira to review component types
[08:44:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I was wondering if I should change the Workshops component to be Workshops, Presentations, Reports
[08:45:22 CST(-0600)] <michelled> or I could put them under demos since we used the final report to build up the demo portal
[08:46:00 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> other possibilities include Website and Tech. Docs...
[08:46:30 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> but I think I like your first idea best: let Workshops represent that plus presentations and reports
[08:54:06 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled, anastasiac: looks like i'm late getting back, but it looks like that is the best option
[08:54:12 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> although the name is pretty long
[08:54:45 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> we could leave the name the same
[08:55:13 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> fluid-everyone: since i'm going to try to do the git primer tomorrow, do you want to just move the dev meeting to then
[08:55:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I already changed the name but I can change it back
[08:55:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> mm, jira is totally funky justin_o - is it git related? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3837 scroll to comments
[08:55:58 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: it sort of looks like they are separate components
[08:56:29 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> heidi_: hmm.. what are you seeing that is strange.. seems alright to me
[08:57:25 CST(-0600)] <michelled> justin_o: I think workshops and presentations are the same because we often end up writing sample code for both - depending on the type of presentation of course
[08:57:38 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, I think the new component name is fine
[08:57:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o your'e right. i think i just need another cup of coffee! (didn't realise we made sooo many changes... duh)
[08:57:51 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I think it makes sense to move the dev meeting to Thurs. this week
[08:57:59 CST(-0600)] <michelled> reports does feel different but I don't think we create many JIRAs for reports so it feel silly for it to have its own component
[08:58:11 CST(-0600)] <michelled> perhaps that's not a good reason
[08:58:24 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> heidi_: okay.. good.. i blame the weather though... it messes with the mind (smile)
[08:58:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> (smile)
[09:33:37 CST(-0600)] <jamon> justin_o: i made a backup for you this morning
[09:34:00 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jamon: thanks..
[09:34:12 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i'll try to update the workflow in jira again..
[09:40:00 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: do you have any thoughts about commit log policy
[09:40:36 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> so in svn we always had the jira number at the beginning.. i don't think this is enforceable through github, although I have posted a message about this in their support forum
[09:40:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can't we write a Git web hook for this?
[09:41:08 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: i'm not sure.. the service hooks all seem to be post commit
[09:41:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> interesting
[09:41:28 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> also we couldn't really enforce this when people are working in their own repos
[09:41:43 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> and then when they try to push they will push several commits that may or may not have the jira number
[09:43:26 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i'm thinking that if you are working on something that you aren't sure should go into master or not until you are some number of commits in. Do you have to lose all the history from those previous commits or should we keep them and not worry about the jira number... or make someone go back and edit all the commit logs
[09:45:01 CST(-0600)] <jamon> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/179123/how-do-i-edit-an-incorrect-commit-message-in-git/180085#180085
[09:45:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> these are good questions
[09:47:45 CST(-0600)] <jamon> i'd imagine once people go through that pain once, they'll use jiras for everything afterwards (smile)
[09:49:07 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jamon: but there may not be one at the time or may not seem like one is needed just yet, and we don't want to pollute jira either, with unnecessary tickets... although maybe that last part is debatable
[09:49:50 CST(-0600)] <jamon> justin_o: hence the interactive rebase/reword
[09:50:34 CST(-0600)] <jamon> or have a policy that merges to origin branches require jira numbers?
[09:50:50 CST(-0600)] <jamon> that doesn't seem unreasonable
[09:51:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So git itself does support pre-commit hooks
[09:51:10 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jamon: yah.. i think that last part is sound.. not sure if github supports it though.. that's basically what i was asking them about
[09:51:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> At very least, we should be able to provide scripts and ask contributors to install them and use them
[09:51:57 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: okay.. that makes sense... is that global or will they have to set that per repo?
[09:52:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It doesn't prevent accidents or intentionally ignoring the policy, but it should go a long way to helping encourage people
[09:52:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It looks like it might be on a per-repository basis, which might actually be a good thing
[09:52:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Let me read a bit more about it
[09:53:43 CST(-0600)] <jamon> i think i'm with colin there, though i'm not commiting anything, a technical (jira specific) solution to this seems a bit too proscriptive versus having some tweaked commit guidelines
[09:53:44 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes.. you wouldn't want to force people to do that on their own code
[09:54:17 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark, jamon: here's githubs take on pre-commit hooks on their end
[09:54:18 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> http://support.github.com/discussions/feature-requests/686-pre-commit-hooks
[09:55:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o, jamon: So I think I can buy into this general argument
[09:56:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We'll provide the pre-commit hooks in our repositories, and encourage people to use them
[09:58:29 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: okay
[09:59:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does that seem satisfying to both of you?
[09:59:40 CST(-0600)] <jamon> makes the most sense to me
[10:16:12 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark, jamon : in case you're interested here's the response i got http://support.github.com/discussions/repos/5431-are-there-pre-commit-hooks
[10:16:51 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: and yes i think that's fine.. although i'm wondering if we should bother with writing the scripts
[10:17:42 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i guess they are like a safety net, and people can use it if they want?
[10:29:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o: I guess it's kind of like why we use JSLint
[10:30:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In theory, you can write awesome code from scratch
[10:30:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it's nice to have something to verify it for you
[10:30:21 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: yep that's true...
[11:01:53 CST(-0600)] * colinclark is super excited about committing mlam and heidi's patches with git today
[11:03:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey justin_o: How does organization membership work?
[11:03:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Can anyone add themselves?
[11:03:34 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: i don't think
[11:03:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Who's jboyo?
[11:03:47 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> it is based on teams
[11:03:50 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> that's jacob
[11:04:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ah, cool
[11:05:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "Hardcore Forking Action"
[11:07:41 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: you should see there cool looking 404 page
[11:17:33 CST(-0600)] <athena> so any thoughts on the timeline for fluid and jQuery 1.5?
[11:17:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> athena: The plan is to get it working for 1.3.1
[11:17:53 CST(-0600)] <athena> oh wow - that's soon!
[11:17:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but not to provide full QA coverage until 1.4
[11:17:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> gotcha
[11:18:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Meaning, if you want to use it early, go for it
[11:18:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> given that it seems like it might be worth switching over for up-trunk
[11:18:34 CST(-0600)] <athena> that way we won't have to decide whether to switch in a maint branch
[11:20:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[11:21:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We won't guarantee 100% cross-browser compatibility, but we should be able to have it work reasonably for 1.3.1
[11:21:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I figure we may still have to wait for a jQuery UI upgrade anyway
[11:24:53 CST(-0600)] <athena> makes sense (smile)
[11:25:11 CST(-0600)] <athena> need to find some time to dig into the IoC stuff you've been doing
[11:25:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's really cool
[11:25:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> still early, but cool and useful
[11:26:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Uploader is probably the first big example of using IoC in a component
[11:26:40 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah it seems like it might help us out
[11:27:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In its simplest form, you can really just use it as if it were Spring
[11:27:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it can do a lot more, too
[11:27:46 CST(-0600)] <athena> awesome (smile)
[11:27:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> and we like spirng
[11:27:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> er, spring
[11:36:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o: Just to clarify from your email about QUnit
[11:36:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You've done an upgrade to the latest version of QUnit
[11:36:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but running against jQuery 1.4.x, right?
[11:37:20 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes.. that is correct
[11:37:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[12:25:06 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey harris to test your patch, will i need to set up the server-end of uploader on my machine?
[12:29:16 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey member:harris to test your patch, will i need to set up the server-end of uploader on my machine?
[12:29:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ak..
[13:01:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey justin_o , after i look over harris's uploader error patch, is there anything else for 1.3.1 i could help with?
[13:01:55 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> otherwise i'll start on the 1.4 fss work
[13:03:42 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> heidi_: i think first check in with michelled to see if there is anything she needs help on with the manual-tests
[13:03:53 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> if there isn't anything there then you could take a look at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4045
[13:04:20 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> which is basically just getting the code that is there, into the repository and making sure it all works and everything.. we should probably also write some unit tests for it too
[13:04:46 CST(-0600)] <harris> justin_o: #3878 patch includes unit tests
[13:05:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> michelled need manual-tests help?
[13:05:55 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o thanks, i'll check out 4045
[13:06:47 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> heidi_: thanks
[13:07:04 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> harris: thanks.. good to have unit tests with all our new code
[13:09:05 CST(-0600)] <michelled> heidi_: sure! there's a readme in the manual tests folder which describes the dynamic reorderer test
[13:09:14 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it needs to be turned into an automated test
[13:09:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> michelled cool is there a jira for it?
[13:10:28 CST(-0600)] <michelled> heidi_: can you create a JIRA for it and link it to 3904?
[13:10:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yep
[13:10:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thx!
[13:32:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Are you there?
[13:32:59 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> hello
[13:33:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Hello (smile)
[13:33:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So, I have an "interesting" issue with line-endings in git
[13:33:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I remember you told me before you left last night that I had to worry about it
[13:33:42 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: okay.. what's up
[13:34:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I assume this was the page you were going to reference: http://help.github.com/dealing-with-lineendings/
[13:34:07 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> yes
[13:34:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So... I did try making these settings
[13:34:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And also tried not making them
[13:34:48 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> okay... nothing changed?
[13:34:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I couldn't help coming to the conclusion that at least in the version of Kettle that was imported, the line endings are not correct
[13:34:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although it's very hard to reliably detect this
[13:35:02 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> interesting
[13:35:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Clearly git is quite liable to try to convert them automagically
[13:35:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But... clearly if they are not correct in the repo, they aren't going to work for people who don't have this setting
[13:35:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> As I mentioned, I'm perfectly happy to work with UNIX line endings even though I'm on Windows... since I don't use any tools that care one way or the other
[13:36:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And in fact I'd prefer to do this so that I saw something more consistent with what other people do
[13:36:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Unfortunately in the PAST I have clearly been the person most responsible for Windows line endings getting into the SVN versions of repositories
[13:36:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It seems pretty clear that Infusion was cleaned of them, but as far as I can see Kettle wasn't
[13:37:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So I have made a fork of the Kettle repository into my own space, so that I could import my Kettle node branch work into it
[13:37:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But try as I might, I couldn't get git to agree that I had NOT made any changes, when I ran dos2unix on my working copy... so there is a big commit now which to the best of my belief changes all the files through converting all the line endings to UNIX
[13:38:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Unfortunately none of the "magic formulas" for telling what line endings a file has work for me and I haven't bothered to locate a binary editor
[13:38:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> However, one useful test is, if a file has any DOS line ending in it, its datestamp will change when run through dos2unix, otherwise it will stay the same
[13:39:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I wonder if you could confirm by checking out the master Kettle repo and inspecting for example V8Loader.js and tell me what kind of line endings you think it has
[13:40:22 CST(-0600)] <athena> line endings are just about the bane of my existence w/ svn
[13:40:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> does git have anything like the subversion config file?
[13:41:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> athena - it does
[13:41:08 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: so i think if you remove the option from your config entirely you won't get that message
[13:41:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: It's more than a message - it is in the files (smile)
[13:41:26 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i believe it is telling you that it will commit the changes to the line endings
[13:41:43 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: you mean when you do git status
[13:41:52 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> you get that they all have changes?
[13:42:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well perhaps that - but I think more fundamentally, when I clone the repo and check the files out, and I look at them, they have Windows line endings in them
[13:42:41 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: what's the easiest way to check this?
[13:42:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> harris i added a comment to 3878
[13:42:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, as I mentioned, the only way I found is to try to run dos2unix on them and see if they change
[13:43:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> let me know what you think
[13:43:07 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i'll try to clone them.. i did clone them all yesterday and none of them complained
[13:43:11 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> If the timestamp changes, then she was a WITCH, and therefore should be burned
[13:43:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: How were you expecting them to complain?
[13:43:49 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> mention that the line endings would have to change...
[13:44:10 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> or that the files were all modified
[13:44:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That would only happen on a platform that had tried to convert them (tongue)
[13:44:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> By my understanding
[13:45:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Did you do that test on a Windows machine?
[13:46:06 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> no.. so that could be why
[13:46:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_, harris: I'll try to get FLUID-3837 in by the end of day, if that helps any
[13:46:17 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> so it seems like i can do this cat $1 | tr -d '\r'
[13:46:30 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> to convert dos to unix.. i'll give it a try on kettle
[13:46:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: In any case - please try to check out the files and inspect them individually
[13:46:40 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> thanks colin
[13:46:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Independently of anything git says about them (tongue)
[13:46:50 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> (smile)
[13:47:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> BUT
[13:47:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Make sure you have the "setting recommended for non-Windows users" set
[13:47:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> git config --global core.autocrlf input
[13:47:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This one
[13:47:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You may have set it to "auto" during your testing
[13:47:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In which case you would not be able to observe any problem
[13:47:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But we have to make sure that the repo will work correctly with everyone who has the appropriate settings recommended for their platform listed on this page
[13:48:49 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: i have core.autocrlf=input
[13:50:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Cool
[13:54:12 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: okay so i tried this approach
[13:54:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20031018164326986
[13:54:21 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> and nothing changed
[13:55:24 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: were there a lot of files that you noticed or only a couple?
[13:55:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A lot
[13:56:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So you used this "flip" utility?
[13:58:16 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> no sorry.. the last options mentioned at the end
[13:58:30 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i tried flip once a while back and didn't like it.. or couldn't get it to work.. can't remember
[13:59:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> At the end?? You used zip and unzip?
[14:00:02 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> yes
[14:00:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Oh crikey
[14:00:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> still looking around to see if there is something better in case that did nothing
[14:00:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm sure that zip is quite capable of restoring the datestamps on the files it modifies (tongue)
[14:00:29 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> also can you tell me what one of the problem files was
[14:00:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> V8Loader.js
[14:00:38 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> okay
[14:00:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Wait sorry
[14:00:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm confused
[14:01:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That is one of the ones that I added recently
[14:01:24 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: okay
[14:01:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Look at one of the old ones, like TagPatternEntry.java
[14:04:39 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So I just cloned and checked out infusion now
[14:04:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And as far as I can see it is ok
[14:05:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But I believe the reason it is ok is because we cleaned it some time in the past, rather than because of anything that happened in the migration
[14:05:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'll test kettle again now...
[14:07:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[14:07:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I checked out fluid's kettle, and it is not clean
[14:07:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> KETTLE NEEDS CLEANING (tongue)
[14:07:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I suggest a light solution of vinegar
[14:08:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Or perhaps some kind of citrus, to avoid the smell
[14:08:02 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: yes.. looks like you are correct
[14:08:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i ran it through textmate which does line conversion when i save the file
[14:08:18 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> here's the diff
[14:08:19 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> http://fluid.pastebin.com/tRFBaCtT
[14:08:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[14:08:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That is what they look like
[14:09:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So... I have fixed this in my fork... the question is whether we want to fix it independently, or just assume my fork will be merged
[14:09:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It will be a crushing test of git's merge capabilities to see if it can correctly merge two independent attempts to correct line endings (tongue)
[14:09:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Certainly it's the kind of thing SVN would fail pathetically at
[14:10:32 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: it will be interesting to see yes... i think maybe you should create a new branch off of master, do the line ending fixes, push that... and merge that back into your current work
[14:11:11 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: by the way, if you hadn't heard we are doing the dev meeting tomorrow.. and it will be all about git
[14:12:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: That's an interesting, and terrifying suggestion (tongue)
[14:15:29 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> haha.. well let me know how it all works out... git still won't manage different changes to the same line of code
[14:15:36 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> so that's what i'd be most afraid of
[14:17:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> +
[14:18:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Sorry
[14:18:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Message from CATT (tongue)
[14:31:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Does it mean "GIVE ME SOME CHICKEN?"
[14:34:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> ever see the futurama episode where the cats try and take over earth, and on their home planet there are chicken-salmons?
[14:34:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[14:34:46 CST(-0600)] <athena> http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/File:The_Chicken-Salmon.jpg
[14:35:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: Yes, I think it does
[14:36:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So I have obliged...
[14:36:06 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> CRUNCCHING and SMASSHING is ensuing
[14:38:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Chicken salmon!
[14:38:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Sirius would love it
[14:38:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but only if it had been pre-crunched and smashed.
[14:39:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think our puppy would appreciate pre-crunched food right now - teething and it took him a good 4 hours to eat his breakfast
[14:40:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ouch!
[14:47:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> wow
[14:52:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> athena how old is your pup? mine is at the eating my macbook power cord stage :|
[14:53:19 CST(-0600)] <athena> bit over 4 months, and yes, my power cord and iphone cords now have a bunch of holes and toothmarks in them
[14:53:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> he actually doesn't really seek our stuff out to chew, but if it happens to be convenient that's another story
[15:05:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> athena lucky they're so cute huh? (smile)
[15:06:56 CST(-0600)] <athena> no kidding (smile)
[15:11:14 CST(-0600)] * Topic is 'This channel is logged – for details see: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IRC+Channel' set by jessm on 07:30:00 CST(-0600)
[15:12:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o: I missed the discussion yesterday about line endings
[15:12:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is there anything I need to know before committing and pushing changes up to the master?
[15:13:06 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: check this page
[15:13:07 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> http://help.github.com/dealing-with-lineendings/
[15:13:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks due
[15:13:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> dude
[15:13:25 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> thanks (smile)
[16:51:56 CST(-0600)] <athena> isn't there some magic functionality in infusion/engage somewhere that does the slide-across-the-page animation for moving from a list item to it's target?
[17:18:01 CST(-0600)] <athena> Bosmon: any pointers on getting elision to work in a table?
[17:28:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> athena: Your question above...
[17:28:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> l
[17:28:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> like for an iPhone-like thingy?
[17:28:31 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[17:28:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It hasn't yet been implemented
[17:28:42 CST(-0600)] <athena> or did i just imagine that in a happy dream one night?
[17:28:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> oh, ok
[17:28:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, in Engage, there is a thing that I'm keen to promote into Infusion
[17:28:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> called the ScreenNavigator
[17:29:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which takes care of lots of Ajaxiness for you
[17:29:04 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, i remember talking about that at the conference last year
[17:29:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> though you were skeptical that it was going to do much for uPortal
[17:29:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anyway, there are hooks in for page transitions
[17:29:14 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, still have reservations about that
[17:29:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> ya (smile)
[17:29:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and Jacob has all the CSS3 in the mobile FSS
[17:29:23 CST(-0600)] <athena> ok, that's what i'm remembering then
[17:29:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they just haven't been assembled
[17:29:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> gotcha
[17:29:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You should be able to do it yourself using the mFSS
[17:29:52 CST(-0600)] <athena> interesting
[17:29:58 CST(-0600)] <athena> you have examples of that anywhere?
[17:29:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So I guess you'll need to somehow have both the list and the item in the DOM at the same time
[17:30:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> however you do that
[17:30:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yeah, let me check
[17:30:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, we already have that for some of the portlets (not for the main nav)
[17:30:26 CST(-0600)] <athena> right now just doing show/hide, but it'd be fun to jazz it up a bit
[17:30:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Looks like there's no demo for it
[17:30:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let's hope I'm not imagining it
[17:30:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> no i really think you showed me that at one point
[17:31:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Fascinating
[17:31:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> They don't exist in mFSS, the transition styles
[17:32:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I know they exist somewhere
[17:32:14 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[17:32:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> in fact, i remember seeing that file and thinking bah, we can't use that anyway right now
[17:33:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> aha
[17:33:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This is crazy misleading
[17:33:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and hiding in a corner in SVN
[17:33:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/incubator/engage/client/trunk/screenNavigator/css/ScreenNavigator.css
[17:33:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So there are two "Screen Navigators"
[17:33:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> A really hard-baked thing that Jacob built quickly as a prototype
[17:34:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then the more flexible thing sort of weirdly inspired by "Chuck's PDA Portal" that Antranig and I were desperately hacking on while still at that Jasig conference
[17:34:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So this CSS is for Jacob's Screen Navigator
[17:34:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and should give you the basics for using CSS3 transitions
[17:34:47 CST(-0600)] <athena> sounds like an interesting thing to learn anyway, probably
[17:35:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's pretty cool
[17:35:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Honestly, jQuery Mobile is coming
[17:35:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we're going to have to look at what we've got and how we can make sense of it in context of jQM
[17:35:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> There's no point competing
[17:36:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> they've already done so much
[17:36:04 CST(-0600)] <athena> interesting
[17:36:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and it's the usual hard-baked code and markup assumptions
[17:36:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it's relatively well-crafted
[17:36:14 CST(-0600)] <athena> CSS framework type thing?
[17:36:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Everything
[17:36:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> full mobile framework
[17:36:33 CST(-0600)] <athena> that's pretty cool
[17:36:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Really good device coverage
[17:36:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> all sorts of non-webkit stuff
[17:36:54 CST(-0600)] <athena> makes our preference for keeping as much as we can on the web side of things more justified
[17:36:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's pretty inspiring
[17:36:56 CST(-0600)] <athena> neat!
[17:37:13 CST(-0600)] <athena> really nice to have other people's work on start from
[17:37:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Having been a Cocoa programmer since the NeXTSTEP days, I have to say that there's just no reason to write a native iPhone app
[17:37:26 CST(-0600)] <athena> so looks like this is in alpha?
[17:37:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[17:37:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> interesting though - in the unconference some people said that they want something in the app store just for visibility
[17:37:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yeah, PhoneGap is good for that
[17:38:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I was having beers with a friend last night
[17:38:13 CST(-0600)] <athena> the apple store won't let that through though will they?
[17:38:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and we were joking about how the App Store is becoming like Yahoo! circa 1997
[17:38:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep, PhoneGap is totally kosher now
[17:38:34 CST(-0600)] <athena> oh! that's great to know
[17:38:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Remember when Yahoo! was more of a directory than a search engine?
[17:38:45 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[17:38:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> browse down those trees
[17:38:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Back in the early days, every dorky company was making a new web site
[17:38:58 CST(-0600)] <athena> find a swim team in the city i just moved to
[17:39:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and it was just a brochure
[17:39:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[17:39:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[17:39:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and the App Store is becoming the same way
[17:39:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> that's really great to know that apple's ok with this now
[17:39:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> full of people's company brochures
[17:39:34 CST(-0600)] <athena> i could see us wanting to have some targeted integration with maps, persistent credentials, etc.
[17:39:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> for sure
[17:39:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> but most of the portal should just be a web page
[17:39:54 CST(-0600)] <athena> maybe build off phone gap as a starting point?
[17:39:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I would
[17:40:07 CST(-0600)] <athena> that's terrific
[17:40:20 CST(-0600)] <athena> i can't tell you how helpful all this info is
[17:40:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And then you know it'll run on Blackberry, Android, and-my favourite-webOS
[17:40:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no problem
[17:40:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I just wish we had stuff
[17:40:41 CST(-0600)] <athena> had stuff?
[17:40:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if we hadn't lost our Engage funding, we'd probably have a lot more mobile stuff
[17:40:55 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah (sad)
[17:40:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and we could have been working on jQuery mobile with them
[17:40:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh well
[17:41:05 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, i'm sure that sucks
[17:41:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> People are, for the record, releasing production sites with jQM already
[17:41:23 CST(-0600)] <athena> though we will be using a lot of fluid stuff in up mobile
[17:41:41 CST(-0600)] <athena> finished wiring up renderer-based mobile views for the news reader portlet this afternoon
[17:41:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[17:41:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that's great
[17:41:56 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, we've gotten a lot of value out of it
[17:42:10 CST(-0600)] <athena> so do you think you're not going to keep maintaining mFSS?
[17:43:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No, we'll keep maintaining mFSS
[17:44:05 CST(-0600)] <athena> that's good to know
[17:44:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we'll keep building stuff that fits a particular niche
[17:44:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The "DOM agnostic" thing
[17:44:16 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[17:44:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So ScreenNavigator will still be around
[17:44:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> anything that can make it easier to adapt or transform your existing content to make it look nice on mobile
[17:44:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> hmm, looks like phonegap is more of an app compiler for static web content than something that can wrap a hosted java webapp really
[17:44:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think you should be able to stick a "Start page" or something in
[17:44:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and then basically send it off to a remote server for the rest
[17:45:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Do you remember what Neeti did in this regard?
[17:45:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The biggest problem we encountered with PhoneGap is that it had no easy way to use it
[17:45:31 CST(-0600)] <athena> ah, gotcha
[17:45:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you'd just sort of toss your shit inside it and go
[17:45:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which is, erm, odd
[17:45:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[17:46:52 CST(-0600)] <athena> i built a prototype iphone app during the unconference that takes the portal and wraps it up in a UIWebView
[17:47:08 CST(-0600)] <athena> you lose all the safari built-in stuff around handling phone numbers, addresses, etc. though
[17:48:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> you think we should be looking at JQM for up-trunk?
[17:53:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I don't think it's a bad idea
[17:53:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> worth trying, anyway
[17:53:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, worth having an idea of what's out there
[17:54:00 CST(-0600)] <athena> though we may run into problems for some of the complex use cases we seem to generate (tongue)
[17:57:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:57:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> People rarely build things with portals in mind, which is a drag
[17:58:02 CST(-0600)] <athena> indeed