fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-06-30

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Jun 30, 2010Version comment
6 min read

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[10:39:08 CDT(-0500)] <alison-b> hi Fluid friends. I'm using mobile fss for my summer of code project. Firstly, Mobile FSS is awesome :o), thanks guys. Secondly I have discovered a small issue in the navigation list demos. the color contrast of the description text (class="fl-link-summary") is insufficient against a white background. Do you want me to file a bug?
[10:42:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> oh hey alison-b
[10:42:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks
[10:42:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> alison-b: Yep, filing a bug would be great
[10:42:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Thanks for catching that
[10:43:28 CDT(-0500)] <alison-b> thanks I'll file, who should I assign to?
[10:43:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Leave it hanging for now
[10:44:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It'll get sucked up when we do some improvements do demos for the next release
[10:44:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There's a tag you can add to mark it as an accessibility issue
[10:44:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which I recommend doing
[10:44:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> let me just look up what the tag is
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[10:46:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> alison-b: If you include the words "a11y issue" anywhere in the descriptions or comments, it will automatically be caught by the Infusion Accessibility Issues filter
[10:46:10 CDT(-0500)] <alison-b> k
[10:46:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks so much
[10:46:27 CDT(-0500)] <alison-b> np thanks for fss :o)
[10:48:38 CDT(-0500)] <alison-b> FYI http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3676. see you later
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[11:24:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> do you guys happen to have any good links that talk about whether javascript is ok for accessibility?
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[11:41:00 CDT(-0500)] <bsparks> http://webaim.org/articles/ might have somethimg
[11:41:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> athena: What's the context?
[11:41:43 CDT(-0500)] <athena> mostly just to answer questions from people who have heard that using javascript means your code's not accessible
[11:41:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The whole "JavaScript isn't accessible" thing stems back to the old WCAG 1.0 guidelines, which were pretty awkwardly technology-specific
[11:41:57 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[11:41:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> WCAG 2.0 clarifies that
[11:42:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Let me see what I can dig up for you
[11:42:23 CDT(-0500)] <athena> thanks, being able to point to that as a specific resource will be helpful
[11:43:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> bsparks' recommendation of webaim is a good one, so I'll check there as well
[11:46:09 CDT(-0500)] <athena> thanks (smile)
[11:49:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm actually quite surprised by how little clarity there really is
[11:49:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess I should try to write something about it
[11:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <athena> totally
[11:49:32 CDT(-0500)] <athena> you know, when you get bored and have nothing to do
[11:49:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[11:49:39 CDT(-0500)] <athena> which i know is a really consistent problem (tongue)
[11:49:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> always bored and idle
[11:50:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> i'm a trouble maker
[11:50:03 CDT(-0500)] <athena> slacker.
[11:50:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Section 508 is decent, in that it clearly says that scripting functionality needs to be accessible to an AT user, or an alternative needs to be provided.
[11:50:15 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah, and there are some good links in here
[11:50:27 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i think there's enough that i could pull together a response if i had to
[11:50:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> WCAG 2.0 is very abstract, and basically outlines the principles your scripted code needs to conform to
[11:50:31 CDT(-0500)] <athena> appreciate the pointers (smile)
[11:50:32 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[11:50:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Worst case, you can quote me (tongue)
[11:50:48 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes (smile)
[11:51:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "Rich JavaScript can be accessible, and conform to both the WCAG 2.0 and Section 508 guidelines. The key is ensure that JavaScript-powered code can be used without the mouse and provides additional semantic information to assistive technologies via WAI-ARIA and extended labelling techniques"
[11:51:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "A wicked developer like athena is already well-versed in these techniques, and can make your JavaScript code accessible without fear."
[11:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How's that? (tongue)
[11:52:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> lol
[11:52:27 CDT(-0500)] * athena looks amused
[11:53:10 CDT(-0500)] <athena> we occasionally get questions because we haven't really provided non-javascript ways to interact w/ some of the features in the portal
[11:54:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[11:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess the key is to test with ATs
[11:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[11:55:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which isn't always easy, I know
[11:55:05 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and i know gary does test the portal w/ a screen reader periodically
[11:55:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> And there are still rough edges in this space
[11:55:26 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah, and i know our code isn't perfect
[11:55:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There are places where even Infusion components aren't particularly awesome for ATs, in part due to the uptake of ARIA
[11:55:40 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i bet there's a place or to we're using an on-change event or something where we shouldn't be
[11:56:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah, i know that my AT tests of uPortal not that long ago were pretty good, though
[11:56:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i do think that we're probably better than most portals though, if only because we're using your code (smile)
[11:56:32 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah, you guys and gary have done a great job keeping it inline
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[12:32:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung, are you there?
[12:32:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yep
[12:32:16 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> vistek called
[12:32:27 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ok
[12:32:28 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Chris Oliver 416-277-7474
[12:32:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks!
[12:32:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> they want ot check that they're filling the spreadsheet out correctly
[12:32:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung ^
[12:32:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ok
[12:33:03 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks anastasiac
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[13:48:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ping jamon
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[15:04:05 CDT(-0500)] <bsparks> does it go against being "dom agnostic" to insert elements into the dom if "required" elements are not provided? (in the context of a fluid component)
[15:04:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, that's an interesting question, bsparks
[15:04:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You'll find that we do that in some components
[15:04:55 CDT(-0500)] <bsparks> assuming also that you use selectors as the basis for the new elements
[15:04:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, for example, Inline Edit will inject the "edit mode" DOM elements if they're not already included in the DOM
[15:05:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The way we try to keep that customizable is to make the DOM injection code override-able
[15:06:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, we usually put the "render" function for that kind of stuff into the options of the component, so a user can inject their own implementation if they want
[15:06:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> If you check out the options for InlineEdit, you'll see that it can a function in the options called "editModeRenderer," which you can supply your own version of
[15:07:33 CDT(-0500)] <bsparks> I see, ok, cool. That makes sense, thanks.
[15:08:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Any time
[15:08:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Your questions are always interesting
[15:56:37 CDT(-0500)] <athena> argh
[15:56:53 CDT(-0500)] <athena> is there a way to set the for attribute for a label without putting an ID on the form input element?
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[16:41:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> athena: Just saw your message, sorry
[16:41:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The answer is no
[16:41:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's annoying
[16:41:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes (sad)
[16:41:28 CDT(-0500)] <athena> since we really can't have duplicate IDs
[16:41:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We regularly hit this, and wish we could use a selector of some kind
[16:41:42 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:41:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You probably have lots of ID-uniquing stuff in the portal already
[16:42:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Worst case, you could use fluid.id() or whatever it's called
[16:42:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I forget, but will check
[16:42:13 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok
[16:42:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It will stick a unique ID on a node
[16:42:24 CDT(-0500)] <athena> sounds useful (smile)
[16:42:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Not a brilliant implementation, but it works
[16:42:34 CDT(-0500)] <athena> this unfortunately is a XSL template
[16:42:41 CDT(-0500)] <athena> haven't converted it to a fluid component, though we will
[16:42:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ack
[16:42:49 CDT(-0500)] <athena> maybe just set an ID prefix as a variable for now
[16:42:51 CDT(-0500)] <athena> stupid (smile)
[16:43:06 CDT(-0500)] <athena> some of our stuff is kinda halfway-in-between things right now
[16:43:23 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but working on getting yale's pulled tab implementation in, which should be cool
[16:44:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Not that it will help you in this case, but the function is actually fluid.allocateSimpleId()
[16:44:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, that will be cool
[16:44:35 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ah, excellent, thanks!
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