fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-11-17

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Last updated: Nov 17, 2010Version comment
36 min read

[08:26:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jhung what was the url to golam's pager a11y patch ?
[09:11:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindyli , on ie8 for builder, when you click on a button does the style break on mouse down?
[09:12:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i think you might've mentioned that before - wondering if there's a jira for it
[09:12:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_, cindyli here are the current builder issues http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&amp;jqlQuery=project+%3D+FLUID+AND+component+%3D+%22Infusion+Builder%22+AND+resolution+%3D+Unresolved+ORDER+BY+priority+DESC%2C+key+DESC&amp;mode=hide
[09:13:48 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i think you would be interested in FLUID-3448 and FLUID-3449
[09:13:52 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: ya, don't rmb how the button looks like in ie8, but i'm sure the style break on button happens in ie6 and ie7
[09:14:58 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o thanks , that's them
[09:15:14 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: yes, also happens in ie8
[09:17:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o should we add FLUID-3448 to bug parade
[09:21:42 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> Justin_o: i fixed a couple of issues with ie6, one is the extra d button problem, also adjusted spinner so it does not overlap on text "download". i'm now strugging with another ie6 issue that the builder download file name gives infusion-1[1].2.1.zip instead of infusion-1.2.1.zip. this seems a ie6 behavior when there are more than one dot in the file name. do we need to fix that?
[09:44:21 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> cindyli: doesn't seem to be a big issue
[09:44:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> although i suppose it would be nice to be consistent... but i'm not sure it's worth the time investment..
[09:45:25 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: is the FLUID-3448 going to be hard to fix
[09:46:14 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> Justin_o: ok, i skip that and putting up the patch soon for d button fix
[09:46:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o i can give it a shot - i don't think so
[09:50:10 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> justin_o focus looking lovely in FF now but IE... i can't seem to focus specific things. ill spend a little more time, but i'm thinking the browser's default focus might be enough/better than the column-outline
[09:51:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> heidi_: okay...
[09:52:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> silly IE
[09:59:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Hey
[09:59:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> hey colinclark
[09:59:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm just reviewing your recent Uploader commits
[09:59:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Nice to see this shaping up
[09:59:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I don't fully get updateBrowseButton() in Uploader.js
[09:59:51 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yah, ditto
[09:59:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's got a nice comment, so I sort of get it
[10:00:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> What wasn't clear is why we have to do it
[10:00:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The way I read it, whenever you change the text of the container button, something happens to all its children?
[10:00:54 CST(-0600)] <mlam> because of the weird markup in the DOM to change the styling of the HTML5 upload ....whenever we change the text from 'Browse Files' to 'Add more', it writes over all the children
[10:01:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> so all the anchor children just disappear
[10:01:33 CST(-0600)] <mlam> so I had to make a reference to the children elements to plug them back in
[10:09:14 CST(-0600)] <jhung> @all: I've made changes to the list reorderer demo. Please update before committing.
[10:10:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: okay
[10:10:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, a question
[10:11:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is updateBrowseButton() relevant to all versions of the Uploader?
[10:11:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or just the HTML 5 one?
[10:11:59 CST(-0600)] <mlam> it only affects the HTML 5 one
[10:13:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so in that case we need to move it, right?
[10:15:08 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yah, we do
[10:15:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's interesting, actually
[10:15:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You defined a new selector...
[10:15:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> + selectFiles: ".flc-uploader-select-files"
[10:15:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And yet it's not actually used in Uploader.js
[10:16:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But it is used in the HTML 5 strategy, with a comment about the DOM fascism
[10:16:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If that selector was moved into the strategy, as well as the associated code that uses it
[10:16:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Then we'd get rid of the DOM fascism altogether
[10:16:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and keep HTML 5-specific code in one spot
[10:16:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll come over and show you shortly
[10:16:55 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok
[10:18:01 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: i have some questions with the swfuploadstrategy + htmluploadstrategy/ invoker/ IoC related stuff... i actually don't really know what the problem is that failed the tests
[10:18:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: Okay, fire away
[10:18:49 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: if you run the tests/component-tests/uploader/html/DemoUploadManager-test.html, you will see everything breaks on renderAfterElement.
[10:19:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: Yes, that's my and mlam's fault
[10:19:38 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: if you trace that function all the way back to HTML5UploaderSupport.js::setupBrowseHandler, the browseButton is somehow giving us an object on those testcases
[10:19:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: Yeah, that's right
[10:20:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: I was looking into it yesterday, so if you want you can leave it and I'll fix it up today
[10:21:04 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: oh, cool! thanks~ i was going to ask if the testcases are the problem
[10:21:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> There's a deeper problem there that needs to get fixed, but hopefully it can wait a few more days until we can freeze for Jan
[10:21:16 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: like maybe i have to add an invoker somewhere or something inside it
[10:21:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: Well, you're close
[10:21:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, the real problem is that the demo strategy wasn't correctly refactored when mlam and I introduced HTML 5
[10:22:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We just swapped it over from SWFUpload to HTML 5 and crossed our fingers and it worked
[10:22:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The test cases pass against the SWFUpload strategy, but that's not currently configurable
[10:22:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we just hardcoded it, which is terrible
[10:22:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So I think the fix to get the tests working again with the HTML 5 version is just to override the demands of the HTML 5 browseHandler invoker
[10:23:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think you could probably even replace it with a no-op (i.e. fluid.identity()) invoker, but there may be a few problems with that
[10:23:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Worth a shot
[10:23:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You can see examples of it
[10:23:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Otherwise, you'll have to give the default browseHandler invoker a button to play with
[10:24:36 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: ok. i actually asked justin a bit on this, and he took a quick look and said maybe it is missing a switch in the testcase only
[10:24:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I don't think that's the case
[10:24:52 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: but i guess this is deeper than just adding a switch to the testcase then
[10:25:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Well, I'm not sure what switch Justin_o is thinking of
[10:25:12 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: mm ok
[10:25:29 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But you'll notice that we do set things up in this test case in a "testing context," which allows us to redefine a component's configuration
[10:25:36 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: i will try something with the invoker.. if no luck, then i will wait for the fix.
[10:25:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sure, that sounds good
[10:26:30 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: yep, i noticed that "testing context" thing. I was thinking myabe the problem lies in that configuration? or maybe i just have to add the invoker into there or something
[10:26:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: You should just have to set up a new demands block for that browseHandler invoker
[10:26:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "in theory"
[10:26:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[10:27:08 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: k thanks! will try tht.
[10:57:10 CST(-0600)] <jhung> cindyli: did you try filter: alpha(opacity=75); for IE?
[10:57:35 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: ya, already in
[10:58:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: the style is like this:
[10:58:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> .fl-infusionBuilder .fl-button-left[disabled] {
[10:58:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> opacity:0.25;
[10:58:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> filter:alpha(opacity=25);
[10:58:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> }
[10:58:34 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: works with other ie but not ie6
[10:59:00 CST(-0600)] <jhung> cindyli: that's interesting since we're doing the same thing in some of the reorderer demos.
[10:59:30 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: ah ha, weird
[10:59:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> cindyli, but I haven't tested in IE6 to know what it does.
[11:00:16 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: oh ho, might be same ...
[11:02:04 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: those styles are for buttons which use a png background image. might related
[11:03:18 CST(-0600)] <jhung> cindyli: The alternative is to not use opacity but to define actual colours and use a different image graphic for a disabled state.
[11:03:48 CST(-0600)] <jhung> cindyli, in Decapod, we actually use a single background image with both enabled and disabled states, and shift the background depending on the style.
[11:09:58 CST(-0600)] <jhung> hey heidi_, I just talked with cindyli about those background images used on the buttons in the Builder...
[11:10:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> mmhm
[11:10:50 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_: I'm tempted to say to get rid of them.
[11:11:06 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cos of the IE6 probs?
[11:11:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm always a fan of simplifying
[11:11:27 CST(-0600)] <jhung> yeah... and also may present accessibility issues with respect to text on a dark background image.
[11:11:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sounds good . will prob solve http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3448
[11:11:53 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> too
[11:12:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> shall i do it cindyli?
[11:12:11 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: certainly
[11:12:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay
[11:12:34 CST(-0600)] <jhung> heidi_, cindyli: cool.
[11:12:42 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jhung: thx
[11:12:54 CST(-0600)] <jhung> np.
[11:13:10 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: but not sure getting rid of the image would help with opacity prob with ie6 but worth to try
[11:13:33 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindyli instead of opacity perhaps we can just chang bg colour?
[11:13:53 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: sounds a good option
[11:17:18 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: i'm going to put up the patch for http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3443. let's solve this ie6 button problem in 3448. what do u think
[11:17:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindyli sounds right!
[11:18:11 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: great
[11:52:23 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindli do you get an error from build dependencis.php? XML cannot be the whole program [Break on this error] ?>\n
[11:52:30 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> newline at end of file
[11:54:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hm... n/m i think it's something weird with my files..
[12:02:40 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jamon server troubles?
[12:02:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> can't connect to source or builder.fluidproject
[12:03:25 CST(-0600)] <jamon> heidi_: you here or at home today?
[12:03:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> home
[12:03:59 CST(-0600)] <jamon> /msg me your ip address heidi_? use checkip.dyndns.org
[12:04:28 CST(-0600)] <jamon> heidi_: nm, i found it
[12:05:33 CST(-0600)] <jamon> heidi_: ok, i see failed ssh logins for cscribe
[12:06:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> that was me! had wrong pw and i guess my filezilla tried a bunch of times
[12:06:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> blocks me for that eh?
[12:06:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> good to know
[12:07:16 CST(-0600)] <jamon> heidi_: yep, going to go over that with everyone soon, move to all ssh keys is almost complete (smile)
[12:07:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> mm, so what should i do now?
[12:08:56 CST(-0600)] <jamon> am unblocking
[12:09:09 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> thanks. !
[12:09:44 CST(-0600)] <jamon> should be all set, try browsing again heidi_? we'll work on the key in a moment
[12:09:53 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> works now thanks
[12:11:00 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11360/FLUID-3828-AND-3829-Test-Results.xls test results so far, I will ping you once update this document
[12:18:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> hey y'all, i am wondering if we can do a round up and figure out where we are with the demos and what y'all are working on
[12:19:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Justin_o: golam: do you two want to start ^
[12:26:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, you know what, jessm?
[12:26:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I was sitting here trying to figure out the silence...
[12:26:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> golam and Justin_o are playing soccer for their lunch break
[12:26:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ah, right, wednesday
[12:26:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> well, heidi_ is here
[12:26:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: you here?
[12:27:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jhung: here?
[12:27:08 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: marco?
[12:27:18 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: playing?
[12:27:18 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jessm: yes
[12:27:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, on phone
[12:27:36 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: not playing today
[12:27:40 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> give me 3 min?
[12:27:43 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: can you update the channel on where you are with builder and what you're working on?
[12:27:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: sure
[12:27:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> whenever – we're just trying to get things round up a bit
[12:28:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: update too?
[12:28:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i can definitively say that mlam is, in part, waiting for me to finish chewing on a burrito
[12:28:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> my estimates currently have me about 40% of the way through the burrito
[12:29:01 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: still refactoring the uploader code with colinclark, and then i still have to implement the aria live region for the uploader
[12:29:10 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: good to know /me marking down 40% burrito progress
[12:29:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: but it sounds like you're on top of the ARIA work for uploader now?
[12:29:36 CST(-0600)] <mlam> the aria live region isn't being activated, so I have to investigate why it's being ignored
[12:29:42 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm working on builder css w/ cindyli, then ill check out golam's a11y pager patch, and james's hack for the browse button on uploader
[12:29:57 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm also figuring out ssh keys with jamon
[12:30:26 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jessm: ok, builder: i just put up the patch for 3443 and sent out the email for code review. waiting on that. other than that, i supposed to fix the ie6 opacity problem. heidi is re-work on the builder button which might help with this opacity thing
[12:30:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: are those builder css fixes blockers for the demo for Jan's deadline? or are they the sorts of things that need to get in before 1.3 in December?
[12:30:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ah, ok
[12:30:57 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm is jan using IE? (smile)
[12:31:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no
[12:31:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Firefox + NVDA
[12:31:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[12:31:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> then not blockers
[12:31:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> for jan
[12:31:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Nor is he demoing the Builder
[12:31:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> ah
[12:31:41 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: right
[12:31:47 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> well maybe i should switch to uploader/pager things
[12:31:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: i guess i should have asked –
[12:31:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i can also run through stuff w/ nvda
[12:31:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> yes, i think a switch makes sense
[12:32:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: So what did you have planned with the new HTML 5 button stuff?
[12:32:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: heidi_: to be clear we're aiming to wrap up uploader and builder by end of day if not very soon after
[12:32:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It seems to be working quite nicely, which is cool
[12:32:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark was just going to look at it
[12:32:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[12:32:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> look away
[12:32:47 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Keyboard-a11y plugin update (not part of AEGIS testing): Code in good shape; could use design iteration; needs work on screen-reader usability.
[12:33:00 CST(-0600)] <mlam> jessm: yes
[12:33:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So I checked in with golam and Justin_o before they left for soccer
[12:33:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm okay ill finish up IE css for builder soon
[12:33:26 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> then move on
[12:33:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> They had one blocker: they need to clean up the tooltip whenever the Pager re-renders itself
[12:33:32 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> soon meaning next 1/2hr i hope
[12:33:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o pinged me before he left saying he had a tentative fix, but wanted some code review
[12:34:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> With that fix in, I can imagine they'd benefit from some testing
[12:34:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> especially with NVDA and Firefox
[12:34:52 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i can help with that
[12:34:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[12:34:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung: What's on your plate?
[12:35:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> heidi_: do you have outstanding uploader/pager fixes on your plate?
[12:35:05 CST(-0600)] <greggy> jamon: what does Ubuntu use to play WMV files? It does not seem to have an mplayer package
[12:35:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jessm no fixes, just testing
[12:35:38 CST(-0600)] <jamon> greggy: should be in the multiverse repository
[12:35:52 CST(-0600)] <jamon> greggy: check gstreamer-plugins, either bad or ugly is my guess
[12:36:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, I've just checked Burrito Eating of my to do list. mlam, let's dive back into Uploader
[12:36:13 CST(-0600)] <mlam> greggy, i use gstreamer-plugins – works likea charm
[12:36:23 CST(-0600)] <mlam> haha cool.
[12:36:36 CST(-0600)] <greggy> jamon: tried gstraemer with Movie-player, no luck. will try again
[12:37:31 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jessm: what can i help with while i'm waiting for code review and button rework?
[12:38:11 CST(-0600)] <jessm> cindyli: probably best to wait until Justin_o can answer that
[12:38:19 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> jessm: alrite
[12:40:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: you around?
[12:42:43 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: yes
[12:42:44 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindyli on your local builder checkout are you getting that /n error from builderdependencies?
[12:43:17 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: what's that?
[12:43:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cindyli XML cannot be the whole program [Break on this error] ?>\n
[12:44:10 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: javascript error?
[12:44:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: colinclark reminded me of an uploader design need – that degrade button
[12:44:52 CST(-0600)] <jessm> do you have any time for a quick look and then a handoff to heidi_ maybe?
[12:45:26 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> thanks cindyli (smile)
[12:45:35 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: degrade button?
[12:45:38 CST(-0600)] <cindyli> heidi_: npnp anytime
[12:45:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: i think it says click to ...
[12:46:00 CST(-0600)] <jessm> hold on
[12:46:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> in the version i see it says "Switch to the standard single-file Uploader"
[12:46:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> and it's just text w/ a line underneath
[12:48:24 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: And we're saying that's not cool?
[12:49:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: i think it makes colinclark sad. it seems sort of a let down just in terms of styling
[12:49:21 CST(-0600)] <jessm> do you have any ideas how to improve it?
[12:52:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Something makes me sad?
[12:52:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: at least in the current version of the demo portal the text kind of gets lost in the other text and doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the styling of the demo – do you agree?
[12:53:46 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: I'm confused--in the current version in the demo portal, it doesn't show up at all for me.
[12:54:05 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm: but, yes, I have a couple of ideas of quick ways to make it fit better.
[12:54:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: here? http://fluidproject.org/releases/1.2.1/demos/uploader/demo.html
[12:55:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oh, you're looking here: http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/uploader/demo.html ?
[12:55:24 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: is the latest uploader on the build site?
[12:55:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm:
[12:55:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, this is my bad
[12:55:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I have sort of broken the daily build
[12:55:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or at least the demo
[12:55:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, here's the thing...
[12:56:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Somehow the Uploader demo in the demo portal is a complete cut and paste job
[12:56:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> totally different markup
[12:56:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Out of principle, I refused to make markup changes in two different places
[12:56:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which means I left this demo broken
[12:56:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which is a really terrible thing for me to do
[12:57:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> well, it is confusing at least – not sure it's terrible
[12:57:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> let me see if I can dig up a link to the real deal
[12:58:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/components/uploader/html/Uploader.html
[12:58:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm, jameswy ^
[12:58:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I will fix the demo as soon as I can
[12:59:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but the only way to fix it is to get rid of the cut and paste job
[12:59:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cut and paste makes puppies cry
[12:59:50 CST(-0600)] <jessm> ah, but for our purposes, the link to the gracefully degraded uploader appears the same as the 1.2.1 one
[12:59:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jameswy: and that makes colinclark cry
[13:00:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes, indeed
[13:00:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> C'mon, doesn't everyone think crying puppies are really sad?
[13:00:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I can think of few things that are worse
[13:00:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> it's got a funny challenge – this link – it isn't really part of the uploader, but is communicating about the uploader
[13:01:32 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> jessm, colinclark: I'll come up with an easy fix for it. No puppy should be left crying.
[13:01:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> aw shucks
[13:02:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, jessm, mlam and I have sort of stumbled on a big mystery with ARIA and the Uploader
[13:02:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Doing it the way we imagine should be the right way just doesn't seem to work
[13:03:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We've come up with a workaround
[13:03:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's sort of ugle
[13:03:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ugly
[13:03:07 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> heidi_: Do you want to chat at 3 about uploader hackity fixes and stuff?
[13:03:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It involves hiding a special, secret live region into the DOM
[13:03:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> jameswy sure, give me 10? just making patch w/ cindy for builder css
[13:03:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it should be good enough for Jan's demos, while we try to get to the root of the problem
[13:04:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: you have the dev meeting at 2:30 pm though, right?
[13:04:25 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> heidi_: I'm just about to go for a walk--how about 3 PM?
[13:04:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sounds good. yes dev meeting
[13:04:55 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> rightio. We'll work around it.
[13:05:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we'll probably be done by 3:30 pm at the latest
[13:05:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: is it a hack that will then result in more jiras for 1.3?
[13:06:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Indeed it will (smile)
[13:06:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think our approach is just to be incremental
[13:06:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> get it working so we can do some testing and Jan can show it off
[13:06:28 CST(-0600)] <jessm> totally
[13:06:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> then make it awesome
[13:06:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> our approach isn't horribly DOM fascist or anything, it's just slightly redundant
[13:07:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> why make a copy of something that's already visible, and then hide it off screen?
[13:07:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but somehow it works
[13:08:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: weird
[13:08:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> sound lucky to have fallen upon it as a fix
[13:08:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess it's better than having no fix at all
[13:18:25 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> everyone: several people in the room here have lost power, so they might be inaccessible until we resolve it
[13:19:25 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> we have crazy crazy wind and rain up here
[13:22:26 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> yeah, heidi_, the problem here might be a bit more kettle-related
[13:27:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i'm assuming that the dev mtg. will be in breeze?
[13:28:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> jessm - given that we've lost power we are thinking of a face to face meeting and I'll skype in anyone who wants to join remotely
[13:28:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> heidi_ and jessm: is that ok? ^
[13:29:04 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> jessm: am I here?
[13:29:09 CST(-0600)] <jessm> michelled_: yes and yes
[13:29:11 CST(-0600)] <jessm> (smile)
[13:29:17 CST(-0600)] <michelled_> (smile)
[13:29:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okee doke
[13:34:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I don't understand what's going on (tongue)
[13:34:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> they're ringing you on skype bosmon
[13:34:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[13:34:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I have answered 4 calls now (tongue)
[13:34:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But never hear anything
[13:34:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> doesn't seem to be connecting
[13:34:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> you're not in it
[13:35:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> Bosmon: you might need to restart skype
[14:33:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> so uploader & pager - yet testable with nvda ?
[14:56:32 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: just added new patch for the pager demo, added css changes to the Comments heading in the demo page. http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11362/FLUID-3828.v5.patch
[14:56:57 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cool golam - should i run through w/ screen readers ?
[14:58:19 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: yes you can, you can also use the testcases document which is in the jira http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/attachment/11360/FLUID-3828-AND-3829-Test-Results.xls
[14:58:57 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: the tooltip is not in yet, we are working on it.
[14:59:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay
[15:27:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark when is jan is demo'ing the uploader?
[15:27:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> just chattin w/ james now
[15:28:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: Jan is demoing the Uploader next week
[15:28:12 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> curious how the button solution will work w/ nvda
[15:28:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay cool
[15:28:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but we're hoping to freeze the demos tonight or tomorrow morning
[15:28:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So that means no more code changes
[15:28:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The button solution is quite hot in NVDA
[15:28:37 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> except for bug fixes?
[15:28:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> especially once mlam and I commit our latest changes
[15:28:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Well, Jan is keen to see these demos be very stable
[15:29:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hot meaning awesome?
[15:29:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so our goal is to get all bug fixes in asap
[15:29:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> When we say freeze, we mean "no changes"
[15:29:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hot as in pretty nice, at least
[15:30:02 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> cool when are you committing?
[15:33:10 CST(-0600)] <bert2> Hello all this is just a quick test - sorry
[15:34:44 CST(-0600)] <armin> Hi bert2 how is live
[15:37:43 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: do you know much about the bgiframe plugin that we use?
[15:40:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A little
[15:40:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is mainly of use on IE6 to deal with z-order issues
[15:41:01 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: okay... i'm wondering if you know if we just use it for the current tooltip plugin.. if we do switch to the new one, can we drop this from the repository?
[15:41:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In theory yes
[15:41:30 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> okay... great... i'll try to keep that in mind when we do our dependency cleanup
[15:41:47 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> but i guess we should try this new plugin in ie6 before hand
[15:42:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It will probably work "more or less"
[15:42:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> One of the crucial cases that bgiframe handles is where the popup material appears over the top of an HTML <select>
[15:42:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Without bgiframe, the material will be obscured by the select
[15:43:53 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: and that is only in IE6?
[15:44:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[15:44:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Conceivably it might happen in IE5 too, but it might be quite hard to observe (smile)
[15:45:56 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: I think we won't worry too much about IE5 (smile)
[15:53:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Yura has just prepared a patch and test case for a renderer expander issue - FLUID-3844
[15:53:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Would it be ok to commit it? I believe it will have a very low impact on the codebase
[15:53:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually it is just a one-line fix
[15:54:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Apart from the increase in test case coverage (smile)
[15:55:42 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: always enticing me with test coverage eh (smile)
[15:57:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> (tongue)
[15:57:08 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon, yura_ : so besides the extra test cases, what does this do?
[15:57:32 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well... in theory, there was a "bug" in the prototree expander
[15:57:53 CST(-0600)] <yura_> justin_o: the UIMessage was not resolving to a value
[15:58:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The renderer proper is able to accept EL references, actually more properly, an entire UIBound component, in place of the "messagekey" field
[15:58:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[15:58:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I guess this is the main fault with this JIRA
[15:58:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That the explanation is inadequate (tongue)
[15:59:09 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: it's a bit light... we've had this problem with a lot of our jiras though (wink)
[15:59:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Let me expand the description
[15:59:27 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: okay
[16:03:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3844
[16:05:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark: Could you supply just a brief rundown of the situation in which one might use a live region?
[16:05:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Does it relate to changes in the DOM other than at the currently focused element?
[16:08:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Yes indeed
[16:09:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So an example fresh from the Uploader
[16:09:29 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: I'll add FLUID-3844 to the bug parade
[16:09:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> An upload succeeds, we show various pieces of status information that tells the user they were successful
[16:09:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> these are visible to a sighted user
[16:10:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> a live region allows us to mark areas where status information or other dynamic textual updates are located
[16:10:25 CST(-0600)] <jessm> justin_o: mlam: golam: heidi_: where are we on uploader and pager?
[16:10:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In the case of Uploader, we are actually creating a hidden offscreen area that has customized text for an AT user--more minimal and essential in nature so that the screen reader doesn't end up being excessively chatty
[16:11:15 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jessm: the pager stuff isn't ready for release, but is probably in working condition to be demoed, so we will probably just create patches now that we'll apply to the branch that Jan will demo with
[16:11:39 CST(-0600)] <jessm> is it on the daily build?
[16:11:52 CST(-0600)] <golam> jessm: going through code review with michelle
[16:12:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: For the Uploader, mlam and I just made a commit that gives the user some improved ARIA feedback. However, it's really chatty
[16:12:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> exceedingly chatty
[16:12:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so mlam and I are working on pairing it down to the essentials
[16:12:32 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: justin_o: are the latest on the daily build site? uploader and pager?
[16:12:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The other major issue we'd like to tackle is to try to remove extra labeling from eli's tables so they are less chatty
[16:12:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: We just need to rebuild it
[16:12:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> kk
[16:12:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you know how to do that, jessm?
[16:13:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If not, can I teach you?
[16:13:02 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: you showed me once
[16:13:05 CST(-0600)] <jessm> let's do it
[16:13:06 CST(-0600)] <jessm> !
[16:13:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: ok, quick refresher
[16:13:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> First, check with everyone before rebuilding
[16:13:37 CST(-0600)] <jessm> justin_o: are you ok with rebuilding?
[16:13:47 CST(-0600)] <jessm> justin_o: is the latest pager up there or waiting to be built?
[16:13:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oops, golam ^
[16:14:04 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jessm: i'm okay... and no the latest pager stuff won't show up there till after we create the aegis branch
[16:14:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> justin_o: ok
[16:14:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> because it's not sufficiently baked to appear in trunk, right justin_o?
[16:14:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Second, go here: http://build.fluidproject.org/continuum/servlet/continuum
[16:14:33 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes.. that's correct
[16:14:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Login with the team account
[16:14:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> username: fluid
[16:14:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> password is the usual one, which I can whisper to you if you don't remember
[16:14:53 CST(-0600)] <jessm> so, Bosmon: colinclark: golam: heidi_: jamon: justin_o: michelled: mlam: i'm about to rebuild! hold onto your seats and kettles
[16:14:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> But it's very corny, right michelled
[16:15:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[16:15:09 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (tongue)
[16:15:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks
[16:15:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So I'm guessing I shouldn't need a live region for reorderer, since its only changes in status are user-initiated
[16:16:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Third, once you're logged in press the play/gear button beside "Fluid Incubator Nightly Build"
[16:16:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And if there are any interesting changes in trunk, you can rebuild that after
[16:16:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam and I are still in the incubator
[16:16:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Yes, I think you're probably correct
[16:16:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We typically use described-by for those sorts of things
[16:16:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> For example, that's what golam has done in Pager
[16:16:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: fluid all nightly build and deploy?
[16:17:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's trunk.
[16:17:09 CST(-0600)] <jessm> or fluid incubator nightly deploy?
[16:17:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Let me check the change log to see if anything is really new
[16:17:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> build Incubator Nightly first
[16:17:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yeah, rebuild trunk, too
[16:17:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jhung made some changes this afternoon
[16:17:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> brb
[16:17:45 CST(-0600)] <jessm> roger that
[16:19:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam it'd be nice if there were something to describe the page list. an introduction. right now the word 'page' isn't even used. like you get "164 items" "previous" "1" "2" "3" "15" etc.... there's no context about those numbers being page numbers. know what i mean?
[16:20:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> eek, it's queued my build
[16:20:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> is that a bad thing, jessm?
[16:22:52 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: maybe it's a misunderstanding. i thought it would build right away
[16:23:10 CST(-0600)] <jessm> maybe it is, but this thing needs a progress bar!
[16:24:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: no kidding
[16:24:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's always nerve-wracking
[16:24:46 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark, Bosmon: i'm thinking about the reorderer aria... so are you are thinking that each reorderable element will get a describedby of the location, and on move these will all be updated?
[16:25:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Progress bar for server-running processes egh? Sounds like a vital part of KETTOL (smile)
[16:25:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o: Yes, that is right
[16:26:03 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: and when you move an item it will say that it just moved to location x or will it just announce its new location which would be its normal describedby?
[16:26:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> The idea currently is that the "just moved item" will have a "temporary annotation"
[16:28:34 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: not sure what you mean
[16:31:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam, with screen reader. it doesn't ever say "page" so the context around "previous 1 2 3" isn't explicit. it says "164 items, previous, 1, 2, 3, 15, 16". it'd be nice if it was more "Page 1, showing 1-10 of 164 items. Go to previous page, page 2, page 3,"
[16:31:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: seriously, still queued
[16:31:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> eek
[16:31:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> it also doesn't tell me that the current page is page 1
[16:31:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lemme take a look
[16:31:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> using NVDA
[16:32:27 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: let me see what I can do
[16:32:41 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam is it working for you on nvda?
[16:33:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam so sorry!!! i think i'm using a build w/o your patch. let me dble check!
[16:33:08 CST(-0600)] <golam> nvda browse mode is working
[16:33:32 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: no worries
[16:33:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i checked out a different dir for my virtual machine... sec
[16:34:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay patched, trying again
[16:35:29 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: try using the browse mode with NVDA (insert+spacebar)
[16:35:42 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: and firefox
[16:38:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam the "viewing page 1" is super helpful. i guess it'd be a bit slicker/clearer if "previous 1 2 3" were read with more context. "Go to previous page. Go to page 1, go to page 2" btw, why is page 1 a link if yr on page 1 already. little things
[16:39:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey jessm
[16:39:02 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: do you have the latest version 6
[16:39:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> "user error"
[16:39:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: WOOT
[16:39:19 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: what'd i do this time!
[16:39:20 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam there is also no feedback with sorting
[16:39:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam just put a role="presentation" on the tables in Uploader
[16:39:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the evil tables
[16:39:38 CST(-0600)] <jessm> don't tell me i have to hit build all
[16:39:44 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: if you have then it's not a link
[16:39:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it apparently works great
[16:39:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Continuum is like an "old application"
[16:40:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You know, like all server-side and Java-y
[16:40:08 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam i go to say "members" and it says "link members"
[16:40:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Meaning, it never refreshes
[16:40:16 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: sorry stepped away for a bit... i guess that makes sense.. i'm only curious if the screenreader will get confused about the movement of the items and if it will read the describedby again after move... but it seems like it should work
[16:40:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> it doesn't say what it does, how to use it, or the current state of the sort
[16:40:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Meaning, it looks like things are forever queued
[16:40:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The secret trick, jessm, is to compulsively click "Show Projects" while you're waiting for it to build
[16:41:01 CST(-0600)] <jessm> doh!
[16:41:05 CST(-0600)] <jessm> that makes no sense
[16:41:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no kidding
[16:41:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's an app for nerds, written by nerds (wink)
[16:41:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i doubt this satisfies nerds
[16:41:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> being a nerd my self, i'm inclined to agree
[16:41:49 CST(-0600)] <jessm> there must be a CLI for watching things move – SOMETHING!
[16:41:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam am i missing something? is that information there
[16:42:53 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: sorry I was in the middle of something
[16:44:59 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: when focus on Members it says "members link select to sort"
[16:49:21 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> golam does it give feedback about the sorting when you use the link? can't get demo to work properly on my FF win, just IE
[16:50:25 CST(-0600)] <golam> heidi_: which screen reader
[16:50:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> nvda
[16:51:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> anyway, i need to end my day - ill be in the office tomorrow to test pager and uploader w/ screenreaders jessm and colinclark. night!
[16:51:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey Bosmon
[16:51:42 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> KENTT
[16:51:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> does your little component actually exist yet?
[16:51:48 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, it does
[16:51:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Suddenly I have a burning desire to use it
[16:51:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> gah
[16:51:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Where do I find it, and can you summarize what it does?
[16:52:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> gah to you to (tongue)
[16:52:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> too
[16:52:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is on my local disk here
[16:52:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah
[16:52:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> great
[16:52:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so, tell me what it does
[16:53:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> And it goes through a little rigmarole of i) finding or constructing if it does not exist a "little component" attached to a nominated DOM node, which then ii) finds or constructs if it does not exist a hidden "aria-describedby" target elsewhere in the DOM and associates the two
[16:53:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It will shortly have some functionality to allow a (probably 1-element) "stack" of descriptions which are to be fallen back among in response to "once-only" events
[16:53:32 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Such as "blur"
[16:53:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> apparently dogs are supposed follow horses here
[16:53:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> or courses
[16:54:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm interested once I finish this up to see what common code there might be between this, and pager + uploader
[16:54:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i guess to get a cat to follow a course, you just leave a trail of chicken
[16:54:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> possible justin_o will follow, too
[16:54:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since I suspect there may well be some
[16:54:27 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> My CATTTT just climbed a tree (smile)
[16:54:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wow
[16:54:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although I don't believe there was any chicken at the top
[16:54:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Not in Sirius' repertoire
[16:54:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Sadly I fear not
[16:55:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, is it a 1:1 association
[16:55:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> justin_o just commented that this Bug Parade is as if we're walking the length of Yonge St. (smile)
[16:55:20 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, it is 1:1
[16:55:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[16:55:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we're walking the entire length of Yonge Street?
[16:55:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Doesn't it end in, like, Barrie or something?
[16:55:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes... since it is the Longest Parade Ever (tongue)
[16:56:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> perhaps we should just always be in parade
[16:56:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No New Features!
[16:56:12 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'm not entirely convinced of that (tongue)
[16:56:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> How is your thing configured, Bosmon?
[16:56:37 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although we certainly have more than enough work for the next few months dealing with our existing feature set
[16:56:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Indeed (tongue)
[16:56:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Especially if you count "finish implementing IoC" as an existing feature
[16:57:05 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon, colinclark : we are sort of adding new features in this parade...
[16:57:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I was just talking to justin_o about the work we have ahead of us in terms of improving the UX of debugging IoC
[16:57:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o: Name one!
[16:57:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> There is a top-level driver which has this signature: fluid.updateAriaLabel = function(element, text, options) {
[16:57:28 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> HTML5 upload
[16:57:34 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> it just happens to fix a major bug
[16:57:39 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> so it is also a bug fix i guess
[16:57:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That's a bug fix, yes (smile)
[16:58:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is backed by a "true component" which has a standard view signature: fluid.ariaLabeller = function(element, options) {
[16:58:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I guess Mike and I are sitting on something that will, post-demo freeze, become a generic live region component
[16:58:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[16:58:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so I guess I really would like to try using your component
[16:58:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is it ready for that?
[16:58:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Could you possibly wait till the morning? (tongue)
[16:58:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> not really
[16:58:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Or shall I try commiting it to a branch right now
[16:58:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I could whip something temporary up
[16:58:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok
[16:58:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's up to you
[16:58:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o: What do you think we should do?
[16:58:59 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: does the uploader still have the degrade link?
[16:59:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: It should, yes
[16:59:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> are you not seeing it?
[16:59:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> nope
[16:59:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> have we broken things catastrophically?
[16:59:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what URL, jessm?
[16:59:26 CST(-0600)] <jessm> http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/uploader/demo.html
[16:59:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I really wish the entire community could just eat a magic pill or take a "sleep-learning" course in learning git (tongue)
[16:59:30 CST(-0600)] <jessm> no worky
[16:59:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: Ah, that's the location of weeping puppies
[16:59:42 CST(-0600)] <jessm> right
[16:59:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> One sec, jessm
[16:59:44 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I am so bloody completely fed up of SVN... I have 6 separate complete checkouts of trunk now
[16:59:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[16:59:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> welcome to the club
[17:00:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you should have heard mlam and I other day (wink)
[17:00:39 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> i can't seam to make a patch of current pager work
[17:00:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/uploader/FLUID-3722/src/webapp/components/uploader/html/Uploader.html
[17:00:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Modern browser required, for the moment
[17:02:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: i can break it – but i assume that it isn't completed
[17:03:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no no
[17:03:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if you can break it, we are doomed
[17:03:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what's going on?
[17:03:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> add one file
[17:03:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> remove it
[17:03:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay, Bosmon, is there any reason I shouldn't try to use your little component?
[17:03:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> 'browse files' is off center and isn't clickable
[17:04:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> rorororor
[17:04:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jessm: You rule
[17:04:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Can you check that out, I'll poke around with aria-describedby?
[17:04:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, the fact that it is sort of half written? (tongue)
[17:04:41 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Anyway, I committed it to FLUID-3730 branch now
[17:04:52 CST(-0600)] <mlam> k
[17:05:06 CST(-0600)] <jessm> mlam: there seems to be more than that
[17:05:15 CST(-0600)] <jessm> i just added two files and can't remove either
[17:06:07 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ack!
[17:06:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, Bosmon I'll give it a shot
[17:06:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wow
[17:06:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so, jessm
[17:06:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry we really suck at estimates
[17:06:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> this is the problem with the bleeding edge
[17:06:59 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I am in the middle of "reorderer proper tinkering" now since it looks like this functionality will require an adjustment in the interface between the Reorderer and its LayoutManagers
[17:07:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we're bleeding (tongue)
[17:07:10 CST(-0600)] <jessm> colinclark: nothing to be sorry about
[17:07:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> if it's any consolation, most people seem to be having fun
[17:07:27 CST(-0600)] <jessm> we aren't twiddling thumbs – we're trying
[17:07:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> only the puppies seem to be not having fun
[17:07:44 CST(-0600)] <jessm> well, that's not only consolation, it's a requirement
[17:07:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cats are following chickens in mazes
[17:07:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> dogs are following horses
[17:07:57 CST(-0600)] <jessm> puppies are resilient
[17:07:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> pretty productive, no?
[17:08:02 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I am just poking around the ModuleLayout now to see the best way to reorganise this code since there is lots of "suggestive stuff" that dates from the Historical Days....
[17:08:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think I am missing out on this whole dog/horse angle (tongue)
[17:08:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: It came from a mishearing of something michelled said in person
[17:08:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> She was drawing an analogy between coding for screen readers and trying to convince dogs to follow a course
[17:08:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So I asked why dogs would want to follow horses?
[17:09:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think mostly I'm just confused
[17:09:14 CST(-0600)] <jessm> well, many dogs do like horse poop
[17:09:40 CST(-0600)] <michelled> and nipping horse ankles
[17:09:48 CST(-0600)] <jessm> that too
[17:11:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Where will I find your little component, specifically?
[17:13:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is in the new file "FluidView.js"
[17:13:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> k
[17:14:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Outrageously, this "little component" is not really a "little component" at all
[17:15:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is simply a view component which is not very big (tongue)
[17:16:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It is a "diminutive component?"
[17:16:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> hahaha
[17:16:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Maybe more specifically, it is an "amplifying component" (tongue)
[17:17:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, I think we had enough of "submediant components" last month...
[17:17:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Although I forget specifically what that joke was (tongue)
[17:17:23 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Ah yes... it was about the "options priority" stuff
[17:17:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "subdominant options"....
[17:17:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:19:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh, by the way, Bosmon
[17:19:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> justin_o and I were sort of thinking that merging FluidDocument.js back with keyboard-a11y might make sense
[17:19:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok
[17:19:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no rush on that
[17:20:06 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well, I'll do it in the same sweep that I update everything for fluidView.js
[17:20:21 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It should be pretty much a straight swap
[17:21:10 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> A ZNUUUZZZINg CATTT is so lovely
[17:22:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess we have a casing issue
[17:23:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I really hate our file name conventions, but it's not something we can fix any time soon
[17:23:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so fluidView.js should probably be FluidView.js?
[17:23:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think justin_o actually has a secret plan for normalizing all our file naming conventions some day
[17:23:56 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes that would be nice
[17:24:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> colinclark - yes, thanks - I will fix that
[17:24:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> "For he purrs in thankfulness, when God tells him he's a good Cat.
[17:24:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For he is an instrument for the children to learn benevolence upon.
[17:24:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For every house is incompleat without him & a blessing is lacking in the spirit....
[17:24:50 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> For the English cats are the best in Europe."
[17:25:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And in America, apparently
[17:26:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, in your branch, the only thing in FluidView.js is the labeller, eh, Bosmon?
[17:27:29 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> So far, yes
[17:27:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[17:27:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I haven't moved DMB yet
[17:27:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually I refer to the file as "FluidView" in the layout demo
[17:27:51 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Just that Windows sloppiness took it up so far (tongue)
[17:28:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Is Windows not case sensitive?
[17:29:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Perhaps you remember
[17:29:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It is "case retentive" but not "case sensitive"
[17:29:45 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It can create some pretty insane issues
[17:30:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Mac OS is similarly bizarre about case
[17:30:09 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Such as that time I was totally unable to update some JARs in the Maven repository over WebDAV....
[17:30:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually Eclipse refused to let me rename the file
[17:30:28 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> svn: Cannot move path 'E:\workspace\fluid-infusion-3730\src\webapp\framework\core\js\fluidView.js' into itself
[17:33:13 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jessm, colinclark, michelled : can i update the daily build site.. i just committed an update to the pager in the incubator branch
[17:33:56 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Crikey... trunk is so busy today
[17:35:18 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fine with me Justin_o
[17:35:30 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> Bosmon: sometimes for renaming like that i change it first locally to something different and then to what i want and it will commit fine
[17:35:36 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> michelled: thanks
[17:37:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I wonder if we should use display:none or if we should give the aria label element a class of fl-offScreen-hidden
[17:37:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I don't know that one is better than the other
[17:37:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I believe it's JAWS that sometimes refuses to read elements with display:none
[17:37:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we'd have to test
[17:37:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok
[17:38:15 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Once we figure it out, that should also become a framework utility
[17:38:46 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> fluid.causeToBeHiddenFromVisibilityButNotScreenreaders(element) (tongue)
[17:39:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which would just be a call to element.addClass("fl-offScreen-hidden")?
[17:39:54 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well.... now you say it like that...
[17:40:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[17:40:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I misread what you wrote and thought it was an aria attribute we would add
[17:40:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> nope, just an FSS class
[17:42:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey Bosmon
[17:42:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> perhaps I'm misunderstanding this code
[17:42:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but you have some invokers
[17:42:53 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[17:43:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It will not work unless you use the version of FluidIoC in the branch too
[17:43:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh eek
[17:43:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that's how you're automatically filling in the reference to "that" without a demands block?
[17:43:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i vaguely remember you mentioning this yesterday
[17:43:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Actually it is not filling it in
[17:43:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> These are "natural invokers" (tongue)
[17:43:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> They just have whatever signature you give them....
[17:44:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah yes
[17:44:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i see the arguments
[17:44:22 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> In theory we want a different name/semantic for this
[17:44:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Since we really want them resolved just once
[17:45:04 CST(-0600)] <justin_o> jessm, michelled: you can take a look at the pager in the incubator branch http://build.fluidproject.org/incubator/aegis-demo-nov-2010/src/webapp/demos/pager/html/pager.html
[17:46:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Our current "invoker taxonomy" is a bit incomplete.... it's rather slow to have an invoker that resolves on every invocation
[17:46:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> But right now the only ones we have that are not like that are "free invokers"
[17:52:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Your diminutive component is great
[17:53:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> totally fixed my bug
[17:54:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> wow... that's great
[17:54:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What was your bug?
[17:56:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> well, my bug was that the FileQueueView rows were really very opaque with a screenreader
[17:56:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Now they speak their file name and size
[17:57:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> brb
[18:15:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: You still there?
[18:16:38 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes
[18:16:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, sorry, one sec
[18:16:57 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> This reorderer code is really so intricate, without IoC
[18:17:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> here i am pinging you
[18:17:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think my unit tests have found a little bug in the ariaLabeller
[18:17:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it doesn't quite make sense
[18:17:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sorry, give me another two minutes and i'll ping you again
[18:17:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> ok
[18:17:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I'll be around
[18:19:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Certainly the DOM binder remains a perpectual victory of design
[18:19:13 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You can get so much done with it (tongue)
[18:19:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[18:19:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it is really great
[18:20:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, so I think this is indeed a bug
[18:20:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Line 63 of fluidView.js
[18:20:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> you can see that it goes looking for an element using fluid.byId()
[18:20:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Which returns a plain old element
[18:20:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which will then subsequently have text() called on it
[18:21:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not quite sure why only my unit tests caught this, but I imagine it should be using jById()
[18:21:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Am I missing anything?
[18:23:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the problem is that it doesn't work
[18:25:31 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Seems reasonable
[18:26:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It's an obvious inconsistency... since the other route returns a jQuery
[18:26:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> exactly
[18:27:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> somehow, this is not working
[18:27:01 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> It's just so annoying to test jQueries whether they exist or not (smile)
[18:27:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i'll figure it out
[18:27:14 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What is not working?
[18:27:19 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> You mean it doesn't work even if you fix it up?
[18:28:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> no no
[18:28:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it works
[18:28:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> just getting all my tests passing again
[18:33:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Here's a patch in case you haven't already just made the fix
[18:33:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://issues.fluidproject.org/secure/ManageAttachments.jspa?id=14640
[18:33:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> in your branch, that is (smile)
[18:34:36 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Thanks, colinclark
[18:35:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> okay, i'm pretty happy with how HTML 5 Uploader is sounding in NVDA
[18:35:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Eat your heart out, SWFUpload (tongue)
[18:35:34 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> (smile)
[18:35:40 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> If only it would
[18:36:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Okay, I'm going to bounce
[18:37:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think we're pretty well on the verge of "Jan's Demo Freeze" tomorrow morning
[18:37:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We're just going to do a round of all hands QA testing first, and then we'll freeze
[18:37:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Bounce?
[18:43:38 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh, like head out the door
[18:43:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> leave
[18:43:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but i haven't quite bounced
[18:43:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> gonna merge first
[18:43:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> bounce & merge (tongue)
[18:45:08 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I wonder where a CATTT is....
[18:45:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Off the top of your head, can you remember the Firefox setting for local XHR?
[18:46:43 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> yes
[18:46:52 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Just search the options page for "strict"
[18:49:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks
[18:53:35 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I'm going to rebuild the incubator nightly
[18:53:35 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> CATTTTTTOOOOO!
[18:53:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hopefully you don't mind
[18:53:49 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> * A CATTT * has come in (tongue)
[18:53:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[18:53:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I need to get home to my cat
[18:53:55 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What do you mean by "rebuilding" it
[18:53:58 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Does it actually do anything?
[18:54:16 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Isn't it just a junkheap of random half-finished projects? (tongue)
[18:54:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[18:54:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> now now
[18:54:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> scratchpad is the junkheap
[18:54:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Honestly, I can't remember what this build actually does
[18:55:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but I believe it actually also builds fluid-all, for some reason
[18:55:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I imagine all it should do is copy over a WAR file containing the entirety of an incubator checkout
[18:55:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it does appear to be building something
[18:55:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> can't for the life of me figure out why it builds fluid-all
[18:56:33 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Well
[18:56:39 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> What have you seen it "build"? (tongue)
[18:56:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah, you know what
[18:57:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it doesn't build anything, which is sensible
[18:57:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it's just that there must be stuff in here with externals pointing to fluid-all
[18:57:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and i can only assume it's somehow running on an exceedingly slow server
[18:57:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sin
[18:57:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> since it takes 4 minutes to check it all out and copy it over
[18:57:47 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> crikey
[18:58:04 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> That would be only comprehensible if there were a minify step in there somewhere
[18:59:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I doubt there is
[18:59:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll have to look at the scripts some day
[19:12:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, bounce time
[19:13:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks again, Bosmon
[19:13:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> fun day of coding
[19:13:17 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Yes, fun day
[19:14:03 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I think I am going to make the reorderer depend on ioC
[19:14:07 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> I am fed up with this crap
[19:14:25 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon> Its dependencies are going to change anyway since it will depend on FluidView.js