fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-10-23

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[06:16:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Hey, sveto and boyan
[06:16:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Do either of you know any C++?
[06:17:54 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> hi, not too much really
[06:18:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Well, it sounds like you know some
[06:19:27 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> well, i've done a webkit based browser for astea as my last assignment, so i know what a destructor is
[06:21:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> "glarg"
[06:21:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> You mean, you wrote a browser?
[06:22:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I guess webkit has some kind of plugin model...
[06:22:16 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> it was a really small, featureless browser... no keyboard input for instance
[06:22:52 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> and webkit has all the classes in place so you can just use the existing classes
[06:24:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Interesting
[06:25:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Well, "in due time", we will need to be moving our server-side Javascript away from the Java base onto the Google V8 engine
[06:25:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Since Rhino is never going to be performant enough in the long-term for a properly scalable solution
[06:26:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> So I was wondering if either of you were interested and/or capable, when that day comes, to help out with re-implementing the underlying primitives for our framework in C++ for V8
[06:31:54 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> Bosmon2: seems interesting to me, but I'm not quite sure if I am capable to do it, my experience with C++ is really basic
[06:32:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> ok, well, any help we can get would be great
[06:32:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I doubt we would need to do anything very intense... and I will be glad to help out
[06:33:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I think the worst of what we will need to do will be to make this portable
[06:34:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> The "ultimate end" is to have the "Fluid serverside" exist as some kind of plugin to Apache, perhaps as "mod_fluid" or "mod_kettle"...
[06:34:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Although really there will be a tower of such plugins... "mod_v8" already exists at a kind of vestigial level
[06:35:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> But we will need to master the tool chain in order to deliver this plugin on all the platforms that Apache itself runs on
[06:35:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> At least, taking in the UNIX based ones and Windows....
[06:35:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> This is a fairly long-term project, we are not proposing to do it before 0.5 at the earliest
[06:35:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> And will probably not really make a start before March
[06:36:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> But certainly by the end of Fluid Engage, I think we cannot deliver a Rhino-based solution for use in production by institutions
[06:41:19 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> well, there's a lot of time till March, we'll figure something out
[06:41:48 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> still I'm not sure if we are the most appropriate members of the team for this, but we'll try to help
[07:10:16 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> That's splendid
[07:10:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Well, other than me and Colin, I think you might be the only others who have worked with C++
[07:29:35 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> Antranig, what web server are you using for engage?
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[11:14:37 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> boyan: sveto: are the FE and Decapod emails to the lists making sense to you?
[11:16:45 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> some of them - yes, good thing is that the comments on the jira issue seems clear
[11:16:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> great
[11:18:38 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> jessm: yes, thanks for the effort put on creating the jira tasks
[11:18:49 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> it's now much more clear about what to do next
[11:19:07 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> great! i can't take any credit for that!
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[11:42:51 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: hello
[11:43:05 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> justin_o: hello justin
[11:43:31 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: so how far were you able to get with deploying engage?
[11:44:59 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> i managed to build the war and deployed it under tomcat... but I'm a bit confused with the url mappings that we use, it seems that / should run engage but it doesn't respond with anything - no error, no content
[11:46:43 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> jessm: I'm looking at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3316 and my idea is to do that as a start (as I said, it should be fairly easy) in order to have some basics for testing
[11:46:53 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: okay... the url for engage should be something like this http://ip:port/nameOfWar/demo/index.html
[11:46:56 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> then we can start building the UI and use images from there
[11:47:33 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: please let me know if that works.. also wondering about what you had to change in the POM file
[11:47:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> boyan: good plan
[11:48:11 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> justin_o: great, it worked!
[11:48:26 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> boyan: i'm thinking you can do that without having to do any major work on the CherryPy vs. Kettle question
[11:48:40 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> that's one that michelled and colinc will need to take a look at with you
[11:48:46 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> jessm: yes, that's right
[11:48:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> boyan: good stuff!
[11:49:05 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> i can have a discussion with them next week about that
[11:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> jessm: i'll start with FLUID-3316 on Monday
[11:50:03 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> boyan: great
[11:50:10 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> have to leave, bye for now
[11:50:18 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> have a good weekend
[11:50:22 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> you too
[11:50:23 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: feel free to message me if you have any other questions
[11:50:25 EDT(-0400)] <boyan> thanks
[11:50:29 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> justin_o: well there was this line - <targetPath>/</targetPath>, it seemed to me that it is trying to copy files in the root directory, so I changed it to <targetPath>/tmp/</targetPath>
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[11:50:55 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> oh... hmm...
[11:51:03 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> justin_o: where could i reach you - on skype?
[11:51:36 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: i think i added you on icq the other day... not sure if you got my request though
[11:53:04 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> you can also e-mail me justin.obara AT utoronot.ca, but please also cc the fluid-work list so that others can also help.
[11:54:41 EDT(-0400)] <sveto> i must have missed the request in icq...
[11:56:05 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sveto: i'll try to send it again
[11:56:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena> is colin around today?
[11:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> athena, no - colin is off today
[11:57:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> oh ok, thanks anastasiac
[11:57:43 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> np
[12:01:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yura1, would you be able to email me an overview of how to get engage up and running on my machine? What do I need, how do I deploy it, etc...
[12:01:56 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> or point me to resources on the wiki, if there are any (I can't find developer guidance)
[12:03:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> anastasiac: The simplest method is to try running it from Eclipse
[12:03:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> The steps are these:
[12:03:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> i) Check out fluid-all, ii) run "mvn install" from inside fluid-engage
[12:04:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> ii) THEN import fluid-engage into Eclipse, and run "JettyLauncher" as a java appliction
[12:04:36 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> Bosmon2, thanks - if I already have fluid-engage in Eclipse, should I remove it, and start over?
[12:05:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Not really... but you should be aware of a particular awfulness -
[12:05:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Eclipse is absolutely terrible about noticing when new JARs have arrived as dependencies
[12:05:46 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ok, thanks
[12:05:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> The issue is that "mvn install" will cause the dependencies to be fetched into the particular place in your local repo, but Eclipse usually pays no attention
[12:05:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Personally, I have found the following cycle is the only thing which works:
[12:06:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> i) rebuild the project, ii), CLOSE the project, iii) reopen it again, iv) rebuild it again
[12:06:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> :-P
[12:06:44 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> does this work in Aptana, or does it have to be Eclipse?
[12:06:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Another method is to actually change one of the JAR dependencies and change it back again
[12:06:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Well, Aptana is Eclipse really
[12:07:01 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> and do I need Couch?
[12:07:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I never see the Eclipse developres ever fixing these issues
[12:07:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> it has been like this for over 3 years
[12:07:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Well - I believe the current setup in engage is to use some public Couch we have set up somewhere
[12:07:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> oh good, that's what I was hoping
[12:07:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Right now, the checkout "just works" assuming you have access to the net
[12:08:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> excellent That's the way I like it
[12:08:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Cool, good luck
[12:08:28 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> thanks for the pointers
[12:08:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Do tell me if you find any shorter way to get Eclipse to notice that you have JARs
[12:08:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmon: "mvn eclipse:eclipse" from the command line
[12:08:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena> then refresh the project in eclipse
[12:09:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> no
[12:09:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> what?
[12:09:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2>
[12:09:11 EDT(-0400)] <athena> the eclipse plugin actually works pretty well
[12:09:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and actually seems to work better than restarting eclipse, which had also been my strategy in the past
[12:09:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I see
[12:09:52 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> What does that plugin do?
[12:10:09 EDT(-0400)] <athena> actually, it works well enough that we've talked about asking developers not to check in eclipse project files anymore
[12:10:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> It makes project files, as I recall
[12:10:12 EDT(-0400)] <athena> MAGIC!
[12:10:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but yes, it does that
[12:10:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and also the .classpath files
[12:10:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I see...
[12:10:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> so if you just do a simple refresh of the project it's all fix-y
[12:10:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> But we already have those...
[12:12:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Ah well
[12:12:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I suspect this "eclipse plugin" is just a proxy for some further thing that makes Eclipse re-investigate the JARs it has
[12:12:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> Because as far as I know, all of these files already exist and are correct in the checkout
[12:12:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> You can see them sitting there in the project build settings
[12:12:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i i'm not sure if it updates .settings as well
[12:13:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> It is just that Eclipse is damn stubborn...
[12:13:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes, it is
[12:13:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> every new version has some new and different bug i have to work around
[12:13:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but i do like the price point
[12:13:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2>
[12:17:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> I suspect that all the plugin does is to regenerate the same files again, only with a changed datestamp
[12:17:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon2> We could probably have an identical effect with "touch"
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[12:21:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena> maybe
[12:21:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> you should try it and see
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