fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-11-02

[06:12:53 EST(-0500)] * sveto (n=sveto@62.44.101.70) has joined #fluid-work
[06:57:31 EST(-0500)] * boyan (n=astea@62.44.101.70) has joined #fluid-work
[08:33:53 EST(-0500)] * fj40001 (n=Main@CPE0018f85ab63e-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[08:35:04 EST(-0500)] * laurel (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[08:35:38 EST(-0500)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:44:50 EST(-0500)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176132520.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[08:53:54 EST(-0500)] <boyan> colinclark: I'm trying to actually start writing code for the thumb browser component today, and I have a couple of questions I need help with
[08:54:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> boyan: Sure. Fire away.
[08:54:10 EST(-0500)] <boyan> I imagine I should follow http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/How+to+Create+a+Fluid+Component, is that right?
[08:54:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, that's not a bad place to start.
[08:55:29 EST(-0500)] <boyan> I got to Copy the MyInfusion.js file into your infusion directory but didn't find MyInfusion.js in the repo
[08:55:47 EST(-0500)] <boyan> is that an outdated version of the document?
[08:55:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> No
[08:56:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> MyInfusion.js is a product of a custom build.
[08:56:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It looks like this tutorial walks you through linking against a pre-built version of Infusion.
[08:57:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> You can go ahead and just link against each file individually (that's what we tend to do for development)
[08:57:06 EST(-0500)] <boyan> yes, it does
[08:57:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> As Decapod grows a bit, we'll create a custom build of Infusion specifically for it. That way, we ship down only the required dependencies of the app.
[08:57:43 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> In the meantime, you should just link against the individual depedencies.
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[08:58:40 EST(-0500)] <boyan> ok, I'll try that
[08:58:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> boyan: Quick question for you.
[08:59:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm just working with fj4000 to put together a list of his priorities over the next little while.
[08:59:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> He's going to be away on paternity leave for a few months after Christmas.
[08:59:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> One of the things on my list is help with HTML and CSS for Decapod.
[08:59:41 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> I'll try not to drop off the face of the earth though
[09:00:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> boyan: I don't know a lot about your skills. Would it be helpful for us to have fj4000 put together some awesome-looking HTML and CSS for the Capture screens you're working on?
[09:00:55 EST(-0500)] <boyan> colinclark, fj40001: yes, it certainly would!
[09:01:16 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> boyan: then let's work together on this
[09:01:29 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> fj40001: are you in the office today? we need to start talking engage home
[09:01:45 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> jameswy: not today.
[09:01:48 EST(-0500)] <boyan> i was thinking to start with functionality on that and leave the styling for later
[09:02:10 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy: fj4000 has strep throat. Be glad he's away.
[09:02:14 EST(-0500)] <boyan> so, fj40001, I would really appreciate any help from you
[09:02:15 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> lol
[09:02:25 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> boyan: Okay, great. fj4000 will start in on that soon.
[09:02:27 EST(-0500)] <jameswy> fj40001: holy smokes! get better, and stay away!
[09:03:45 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Just so everyone knows, I'll be out of the office for most of today, working on getting the boat ready for winter.
[09:04:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> laurel: Are you feeling like you've got some direction with next steps for Builder? I hope my reviews were at least vaguely helpful.
[09:04:47 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> boyan: can you send me your IM info?
[09:05:17 EST(-0500)] <laurel> colinclark: yes, I'm feeling pretty good, though completely stuck on the tests failing bug
[09:05:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> laurel: Honestly, I'd leave it for now.
[09:05:33 EST(-0500)] <laurel> colinclark: I think I need some designer time though
[09:05:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Here's one thing to try, until you hear from someone else about jQuery.simulate()
[09:06:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Replace simulated clicks with explicitly setting the "checked" attribute of the checkboxes.
[09:06:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> See if that solves the problem.
[09:06:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> laurel: It's on fj4000's pre-baby to do list.
[09:06:41 EST(-0500)] <boyan> fj40001: my skypename is bajbrother, on Gmail Talk - bsheytanov
[09:06:52 EST(-0500)] <boyan> also have ICQ, but tend not to use it very much
[09:07:02 EST(-0500)] <laurel> i did try setting the checked attribute - just for the one checkbox, but the single check didn't propagate
[09:07:17 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, interesting
[09:07:22 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> No change notification
[09:07:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It seemed pretty clear to me that in some cases the simulated click event just wasn't getting fired.
[09:08:10 EST(-0500)] <laurel> yes - every second time for some wierd reason
[09:08:29 EST(-0500)] <laurel> the actual click happens, but again, it doesn't propagate
[09:08:59 EST(-0500)] <laurel> i did work my way stepping through, but I felt like I was getting too mired in jquery code
[09:09:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We can't live with oddly failing unit tests for long, but it's something that you may want hold off on in favour of getting everything else done first.
[09:09:14 EST(-0500)] <laurel> it may be something in the applier too.
[09:09:24 EST(-0500)] <laurel> which I don't understand all that well
[09:09:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It seems pretty unlikely
[09:09:57 EST(-0500)] <laurel> so - where to go from here - I'm addressing your emails now
[09:10:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> great
[09:10:30 EST(-0500)] <laurel> i've worked on the "deploy" documentation
[09:10:58 EST(-0500)] <laurel> but I'll get some people to test the process out a bit more.
[09:11:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> that's a really good idea
[09:11:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Our goal here is make deployment of Builder insanely easy.
[09:11:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's going to be one more thing to check off the list on our release process for Infusion
[09:11:49 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> so clear and simple are key.
[09:12:02 EST(-0500)] <laurel> i assume we want to revisit the appearance before we release - and that we need to check in with Jess about how it should fit in with the rest of the website.
[09:12:22 EST(-0500)] <laurel> do you have a goal date for release?
[09:12:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> laurel: Yeah, that's what I was saying is on fj4000's to do list
[09:13:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't have a goal. I think we've moved past dates on this one. Let's get things to a point where we feel good about the Builder, and then we'll kick of a mini-bug parade for it.
[09:14:09 EST(-0500)] <laurel> so your comments in the email probably won't take me all that long to accomplish
[09:14:14 EST(-0500)] <laurel> emails
[09:14:24 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> k
[09:14:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Then, I think you're probably due for an update and tour at our next dev meeting
[09:14:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Talk to others about the deploy process
[09:15:01 EST(-0500)] <laurel> tomorrow?
[09:15:05 EST(-0500)] <laurel> sounds good
[09:15:09 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> yep
[09:15:33 EST(-0500)] <laurel> great..hopefully I can get a couple of test drives of the deployment today.
[09:15:33 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Once fj4000 and jameswy have had time to get fluidengage.org together, we'll put some cycles on Builder design, now that it is standalone from the rest of the site.
[09:15:45 EST(-0500)] <laurel> great.
[09:15:57 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll talk to a few people, including jessm about the Builder's role within our larger web presence.
[09:16:34 EST(-0500)] <laurel> all good - let me know if anything else comes to mind and I'll get this stuff working asap.
[09:16:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[09:17:03 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Hey, how's it going?
[09:17:14 EST(-0500)] <boyan> colinclark: here's my general idea about how to structure the thumbnail browser:
[09:17:14 EST(-0500)] <boyan> build it as a Fluid component made of two subcomponents - the thumb list, and the preview
[09:17:14 EST(-0500)] <boyan> and use ModuleLayout to lay them out in two columns
[09:17:26 EST(-0500)] <boyan> does that seem sensible?
[09:18:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> boyan: Generally, yes. I wonder if Preview actually even has enough behaviour to be a real component, rather than just a bit of markup.
[09:18:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Definitely Thumb List makes sense as a subcomponent
[09:18:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And so perhaps you've actually got two components--one that represents the Capture screen as a whole
[09:19:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And it uses a Thumb List
[09:19:32 EST(-0500)] <boyan> I was wondering the same thing
[09:19:44 EST(-0500)] <boyan> i can make them together as a single component
[09:20:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ModuleLayout probably isn't what you're thinking of. It's used by the Reorderer for handling portlet-style drag and drop.
[09:20:38 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> You should be able to do all the layout work with the Fluid Skinning System's layout features.
[09:20:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj4000 can help with that.
[09:21:12 EST(-0500)] <boyan> ok, that was really helpful
[09:21:22 EST(-0500)] <boyan> I've been looking at the wrong place obviously
[09:21:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> No worries. There's a lot of code in here.
[09:21:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, in summary:
[09:22:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Start with a "Capture" component that represents the whole page. It should use-as a subcomponent-the Thumbs browser component.
[09:22:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Capture will be responsible for handling all the main actions you seen in the wireframes--Fix Image, Compare, and Take Picture
[09:24:01 EST(-0500)] <boyan> ok, got that, one final question:
[09:24:02 EST(-0500)] <boyan> should the preview be part of the Capture or Thumbs browser component
[09:24:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, I think the preview image should be just a part of the Capture component
[09:24:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> As I say, there's probably no behaviour there, other than to display an image within the preview area.
[09:24:53 EST(-0500)] <boyan> ok, things seem a bit more clear now
[09:25:00 EST(-0500)] <boyan> thanks
[09:25:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> No problem
[09:25:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So, Capture will have a central model--a list of images
[09:25:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It can share that model with Thumbs Browser
[09:25:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So Thumbs Browser has access to the model to things like deleting images
[09:25:39 EST(-0500)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-71-232-1-65.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[09:25:59 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> And then you can create some simple API for selecting an image to be previewed.
[09:29:52 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> hey fj4000 and Justin_o: I'll say again what a great presentation that was on Friday. I really enjoyed it.
[09:30:55 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thank you glad you liked it
[09:31:35 EST(-0500)] * jessm watched the tweets of appreciation as you presented – very impressive
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[09:34:59 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: good, what's up?
[09:35:23 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> colinclark: thanks very much
[09:35:31 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Wondering if you have some time this week to do some whiteboarding with me.
[09:35:48 EST(-0500)] <jamon> yep i'm around
[09:35:58 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I want to put together a map of Fluid's infrastructure. I think it'll help us plan a bit, what with all the pending changes and updates we have on tap.
[09:36:01 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> jessm: do you know where we could see those tweets?
[09:36:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> jamon: Today's shot, but I'm pretty free for the rest of the week.
[09:36:27 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: yeah jessm and i talked about it last tuesday as well, so now's a great time
[09:36:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Cool
[09:36:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Do you want to book a specific date/time?
[09:36:53 EST(-0500)] <jamon> colinclark: ok, when you're in you know where to find me, any time i'm at my desk is fine
[09:37:00 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[09:39:08 EST(-0500)] <jessm> fj40001: not sure – the older tweets seem "temporarily disabled"
[09:39:17 EST(-0500)] <jessm> i'll keep my eyes open and try to screenshot them
[09:39:24 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> thank you
[09:39:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> fj40001, jessm: I did a search for #FSOSS and found several tweets related to your presentation
[09:40:16 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> colinclark: did you just have to look through them, or can you narrow your search?
[09:40:27 EST(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: weird, that works, but fsoss2009 is sparsely populated
[09:40:32 EST(-0500)] <jessm> my search term was bad
[09:40:50 EST(-0500)] <jessm> @digibomb was tweeting your talk
[09:41:44 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> ah, right
[09:41:48 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> he mentioned he did that
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[10:11:01 EST(-0500)] <Justin_o> fj4000, jessm: here are some pictures that I think digibomb posted on flickr too. http://www.flickr.com/photos/phug/
[10:12:06 EST(-0500)] <jessm> Justin_o: awesome!
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[10:28:42 EST(-0500)] <laurel> fj4000: do you have time to test deploy the infusion-builder today - I'd like to try out the instructions a little before tomorrows dev meeting
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[10:34:19 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> laurel: would that require installing maven and and on my machine?
[10:35:00 EST(-0500)] <laurel> um...yes it would
[10:35:01 EST(-0500)] <laurel> sigh
[10:35:15 EST(-0500)] <laurel> however, even a test of the procedure without actual build would be helppful
[10:37:13 EST(-0500)] <laurel> Anyone else out there interested in helping me test drive some instructions in deploying the infusion-builder? http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Deploying+the+Infusion+Builder
[10:38:32 EST(-0500)] <laurel> You can install locally on your own machine and follow the local install instructions.
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[10:45:48 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj4000, jessm: I wasn't quite sure how to categorize our presentation so I just posted it on the presentation page on the wiki under an FSOSS 2009 heading... http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Presentations
[10:46:01 EST(-0500)] <jessm> justin_o: perfect
[10:46:10 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> thanks
[10:46:47 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> thanks very much
[10:52:56 EST(-0500)] <jamon> laurel, anastasiac, done
[10:57:22 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> justin_o: the slides for pdf and ppt didnt come out right, i dont think
[10:57:34 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> really.. what's wrong
[10:58:11 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> for the ppt file, the layout and fonts are incomlplete
[10:58:37 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> for the pdf, page 23 is missing the text
[10:58:53 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> page 18 is in the wrong character set
[10:59:04 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> im not sure how this happens, but you might want to re-export it
[11:00:34 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj40001: just looking at the issue with the pdf... i'll see if it will re-export... not sure if it will work though..
[11:00:41 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> i have no idea
[11:01:57 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj40001: my guess is that the ppt won't be fixable because they don't support all of the things we did....
[11:02:05 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> so i should pull the link
[11:02:17 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> i'll see if i can fix up the pdf
[11:02:22 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> forget the ppt, i think - pdf is good enough for windows
[11:06:07 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj40001: what's missing on page 23
[11:06:39 EST(-0500)] * fj40001 goes to open the pdf
[11:07:21 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> if you look closely
[11:07:30 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> the text is in dark grey
[11:07:40 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> all the Reset stuff
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[11:09:22 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj40001: what does the text say
[11:09:30 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> i just want to make sure i'm not missing it
[11:09:43 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> Reset:
[11:09:43 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> normalize the little things
[11:09:43 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> for a consistent starting
[11:09:43 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> point
[11:09:43 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> Monday, November
[11:10:14 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> skip that last line, my mistake
[11:11:05 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> okay.... i think it's all there now.. i'm going to re-upload the files
[11:12:33 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> fj40001: okay you can try it again... although you may have to clear your cache and wait a bit for the server to update and point at the new files
[11:12:54 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> thanks a bunch
[11:18:56 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> justin_o: sorry, still impossible to read.....
[11:19:28 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> if it looks the same, it is probably the old file you are getting
[11:19:47 EST(-0500)] <justin_o> so can you check page 18 the one where the text was in the wrong font
[11:20:31 EST(-0500)] <sveto> can you help me by having a look at http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/ENGAGE-179 ?
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[14:04:44 EST(-0500)] <jessm> laurel: ping
[14:05:19 EST(-0500)] <laurel> jessm: hi there
[14:05:25 EST(-0500)] <jessm> laurel: let's skype
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[14:36:17 EST(-0500)] <joan> hi mechelled
[14:36:21 EST(-0500)] <joan> hi michelled
[14:37:20 EST(-0500)] <joan> i'm trying to use kettle as a ajax remote data proxy (jira server) provider.
[14:38:29 EST(-0500)] <joan> so the question is: my i ajax to jira server inside a handler in a synchronous ajax call (i've seen something similar in the kettle demos)?
[14:39:28 EST(-0500)] <joan> sorry, today i fail writting. (... the question is: may I ajax... )
[14:46:00 EST(-0500)] <joan> like ... fluid.browseDemo.initBrowseDataFeed ?
[14:48:22 EST(-0500)] <michelled> joan, it makes sense to me to use ajax to get the data from JIRA
[14:48:55 EST(-0500)] <michelled> joan, did you get kettle working?
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[14:49:08 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I wasn't quite sure about the problems you were having.
[14:49:18 EST(-0500)] <michelled> did boyan's suggestion help?
[14:49:27 EST(-0500)] <joan> i hope this helps me to prevent security cross-domain browser ajax issue
[14:49:49 EST(-0500)] <joan> michelled: i have kettle working an i can debug it.
[14:50:16 EST(-0500)] <michelled> good to hear
[14:50:26 EST(-0500)] <joan> i've found a micro bug in engageConfig.json a comma is missing before debug param
[14:50:47 EST(-0500)] <joan> and also i've found something courious
[14:52:08 EST(-0500)] <michelled> wow, I'm surprised it worked with that bug
[14:52:10 EST(-0500)] <joan> kettle hasn't a clean maven structure (you know src/main/java, src/main/resources, src/main/webapp, ...)
[14:52:36 EST(-0500)] <joan> so i decided do change src/java to src/main/java locally.
[14:52:43 EST(-0500)] <joan> the same for webapp.
[14:52:54 EST(-0500)] <michelled> hmmm... sounds like an oversight to me
[14:53:04 EST(-0500)] <michelled> are you going to be at the developer's meeting tomorrow?
[14:53:12 EST(-0500)] <michelled> it would be a good time to bring it up
[14:53:23 EST(-0500)] <joan> so i can mvn eclipse:clean and eclipse:eclipse and also activate Wtp so i can debug in tomcat and jetty too.
[14:54:08 EST(-0500)] <joan> yes. what time? 17:30?
[14:54:59 EST(-0500)] <michelled> it's after stand up
[14:55:19 EST(-0500)] <michelled> unless the time got changed? I'm really behind on my list mail
[14:55:25 EST(-0500)] <joan> i'd rather prefer to keep "standard" maven folder's structure. So all plugins have the folders that they expect to find ...
[14:55:50 EST(-0500)] <joan> no problem .i'll connect.
[14:55:52 EST(-0500)] <michelled> makes sense to me
[14:56:35 EST(-0500)] <joan> near 21:00 for me. Going home. see you tomorrow?
[14:56:44 EST(-0500)] <michelled> for sure
[14:56:52 EST(-0500)] <joan> :-D
[14:56:59 EST(-0500)] <michelled> I'll be online earlier tomorrow - maybe we can check in then
[14:57:03 EST(-0500)] <michelled> sorry I've been so scarce
[14:57:26 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> We have a standard maven folder structure for infusion and kettle, I believe, but not for any other projects
[14:57:27 EST(-0500)] <joan> no problem. See you.
[14:57:44 EST(-0500)] <Bosmon2> There is a discussion on the list between me and Colin about whether/why we would extend this to other projects
[14:58:57 EST(-0500)] <michelled> Bosmon2: joan said he had to change his directory structure locally to 'src/main/java' and 'src/main/webapp' so that his eclipse plugins would work properly
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[15:31:30 EST(-0500)] <athena7> another advantage of using the standard maven folders is that it's more intuitive to people new to the project
[16:07:22 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> If anyone is still interested in halloween spookiness or just flat out terror, check this out
[16:07:23 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/10/not-funny-60-still-using-ie6-in-south-korea/
[16:07:47 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> absofrigginlutely terrifying
[16:08:50 EST(-0500)] <athena7> that's . . . depressing
[16:09:10 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> isn't it?
[16:09:57 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah
[16:11:08 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i still think colin's going to owe me beer in a year
[16:13:01 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> what was your bet?
[16:13:52 EST(-0500)] <athena7> actually i think i'll owe him beer, to remember more accurately
[16:14:12 EST(-0500)] <athena7> here we go
[16:14:14 EST(-0500)] <athena7> "I'll buy you beers if IE isn't dead by 2011, though."
[16:14:45 EST(-0500)] <athena7> and i agreed and said "if we're still supporting it in 2011, i'll buy you beer and we can cry into them"
[16:15:32 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> are you thinking about marketplace relevance or just global stats?
[16:15:48 EST(-0500)] <athena7> we agreed on a definition of supported by fluid or uportal
[16:16:20 EST(-0500)] <athena7> so yeah, he'll owe me beer
[16:16:30 EST(-0500)] <athena7> because there is no way that mess is going to disappear in the next year
[16:17:20 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> i think it will greatly depend on biz uptake for windows 7
[16:17:31 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> but yeah, thats a tough bet to take
[16:17:42 EST(-0500)] <athena7> windows 7 has kittens and unicorns!!!!
[16:17:46 EST(-0500)] <athena7> how can you not want that!
[16:18:04 EST(-0500)] <athena7> best commercials ever.
[16:18:14 EST(-0500)] <fj40001>
[16:18:34 EST(-0500)] * athena7 abuses the DVR button to repeat those
[16:18:35 EST(-0500)] <athena7> lol
[16:19:22 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> I should get my 3yr old son to make a windows 7 commercial
[16:19:32 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> it would be a hilarious disaster
[16:19:46 EST(-0500)] <athena7> lol
[16:20:03 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i've always thought it was an adorable but stupid campaign
[16:20:12 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i mean, small children are notorious for absorbing technology
[16:20:31 EST(-0500)] <athena7> how many people are there out there whose elementary school kids fix their computers for them?
[16:20:48 EST(-0500)] <athena7> "small child can operate this" shouldn't be a ringing endorsement of ease of use
[16:24:01 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> they're the new face of microsoft, yknow
[16:24:38 EST(-0500)] <athena7> gotta indoctrinate the next generation
[16:24:41 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> Microsoft - so cute, you'll want to give your own kids up for adoption
[16:24:51 EST(-0500)] <athena7> lol
[16:24:53 EST(-0500)] <athena7> so funny user interface story about adults
[16:25:03 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i met up with some family while i was at the unconference
[16:25:17 EST(-0500)] <athena7> my aunt's fallen in love with facebook, uses it a ton
[16:25:31 EST(-0500)] <athena7> but she said the first time someone tried to chat with her on it, she couldn't figure out how to respond
[16:25:42 EST(-0500)] <athena7> because the text input box was obvious, and she typed a message there
[16:25:51 EST(-0500)] <athena7> but couldn't figure out how to send it because there was no "send" button
[16:25:59 EST(-0500)] <athena7> and hitting enter didn't occur to her
[16:25:59 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> oh
[16:26:16 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> wow...sounds like a graling oversight actually
[16:26:21 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah
[16:26:22 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> *glaring
[16:26:38 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i think it says something about what happens to some users when you remove well-known cues in an effort to be concise
[16:26:56 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sometimes it helps to have the extra buttons even if you let the enter key just perform the submit action or whatever
[16:28:00 EST(-0500)] <fj40001> indeed
[16:28:28 EST(-0500)] <athena7> anyway, seems like an argument for not being too cutting-edge on the user interface side
[16:28:54 EST(-0500)] <athena7> at least for uportal there's not really much reason for us to be teaching users new interaction styles
[16:29:17 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i think it makes more sense to just try and use well-established conventions as much as we can (or the good conventions, anyway)
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