fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-08-21

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Aug 21, 2009Version comment
32 min read

[07:46:22 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=michelle@CPE001310472ade-CM0011aefd3ca8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[07:56:10 EDT(-0400)] * heidi_ (n=thesumme@bas5-oshawa95-1176338600.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[08:29:45 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:33:08 EDT(-0400)] * laurel (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[09:01:51 EDT(-0400)] * Bosmo1 (n=Antranig@ginger.caret.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fluid-work
[09:01:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Hello, KING
[09:02:04 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hello
[09:02:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I wonder if we can arrange for sgithen to be a comiter to the incubator area...
[09:02:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I will aggree to be his "mentour" (tongue)
[09:02:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> He might be able to fix a few issues in KETTOL...
[09:03:04 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: ah i see... should be able to... i think michelled and anastasiac handle that, maybe colinclark too
[09:05:39 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176130836.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[09:05:48 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> that would be great
[09:06:37 EDT(-0400)] * yura (n=yura@142.150.82.110) has joined #fluid-work
[09:08:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I hear "The Hens Respectable" is willing to share some code for Kettle!
[09:08:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And that Bosmo1 is gonna be his "mentor" for access to the incubator.
[09:08:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> +1
[09:12:27 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=michelle@CPE001310472ade-CM0011aefd3ca8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[09:13:02 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 (n=Main@CPE0018f85ab63e-CM001692f5798c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[09:13:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: seems like everyone here is in favour, we should be able to get it all set up in about an hour or so
[09:15:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Translated as: "whenever Colin finishes breakfast and get on the subway so he can help Justin_o with it." (tongue)
[09:22:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Do we have a special namespace we use for demo code?
[09:22:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess we probably have a lot of demos and springboards that just stick JS code in the HTML instead. (tongue)
[09:24:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Do you know?
[09:26:03 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: some do, some use a demo namespace i think... like fluid.demo .... i'm trying to remember so i may be a little offf
[09:26:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, I'l check it out. It seems to make sense to use one... maybe just "demo."
[09:26:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Since I guess the idea would be to convey to our users that they'll want their own special namespace independent from fluid's.
[09:27:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I have a new and improved standalone demo for the Image Reorderer just about finished here.
[09:28:32 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: really that's great
[09:29:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll also rewrite the documentation... or help someone else do it.
[09:29:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Our recent infusion-users question was a bit embarrassing--reminded me how we have some pretty old documentation still floating around in the wiki. Users find that stuff and then get confused by it. (wink)
[09:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> that's true...
[09:36:51 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: Could you help me with a couple of issues brought up by users
[09:37:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> one is in regards to inline edit and the other about reorderer
[09:37:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Hi Justin_o
[09:37:40 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hello...
[09:38:22 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> For inlineEdit what the user wants to do is this. When someone edits an inline editable field. they want to perform some validation on the server before accepting it
[09:38:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Can you tell me about these is-sues?
[09:38:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Oh yes
[09:38:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Now I start to remember this
[09:38:45 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> if it is invalid, they want to revert back to the original text and put up an error message
[09:38:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That sounds interestingly dodgy.... given that this validation would necessarily be asynchronous
[09:39:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Who are the users, out of interest?
[09:39:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> aTutor
[09:39:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Or at least, which community are they in...
[09:39:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> ok
[09:39:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> they were attempting to use the onEditFinished event and prevent it
[09:39:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Off the top of my head, this is an issue that might require a fair amount of redesign of the component...
[09:40:00 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ah okay...
[09:40:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It certainly sounds like something we would want to suppot
[09:40:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> support
[09:40:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But I can't think of any way currently we could get the event stack to "suspend"
[09:40:23 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes
[09:40:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Whilst we were waiting for a notification from the server
[09:40:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We would need to create a whole new "state" for the component
[09:40:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> In which it would be blocked and waiting for notification of a state transition
[09:41:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> sometime before the model is updated
[09:41:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I guess during this state it would also appear disabled or "busy" and not accept further input
[09:41:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> So... the short answer is, I unfortunately can't see any way we could support this, at least before the 1.2 release
[09:41:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I guess we'd need to see what kind of a priority we would make this
[09:42:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, this seems like a classic mismatch in design of old-style server-based validation and client-side interaction.
[09:42:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[09:42:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'd imagine that there are probably some pretty reasonable other ways to solve this sort of a design problem, rather than trying to do some kind of sophisticated "wait for validation" feature in the component.
[09:43:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: is there any validation support built into inlineEdit at this moment?
[09:43:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, it supports whatever validation you want, currently
[09:43:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Only with the proviso that the validation is synchronous (tongue)
[09:43:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm not sure we'd ever want to build validation specifically into the component, though I'm open to the idea.
[09:43:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We certainly give you tons of interesting callbacks to hook validation routines in and so on.
[09:44:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So a couple of options they might consider:
[09:44:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. Implement a portion of the appropriate validation logic on the client-side in JavaScript
[09:45:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. Don't validate until the whole page is submitted, in the traditional style.
[09:45:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. Create some kind of "busy" experience while the client-side goes back to the server via Ajax to perform validation.
[09:45:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I don't see why someone couldn't fairly easily implement #3 now if they really wanted.
[09:46:07 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: I think #3 is harder than that
[09:46:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So you let the user enter their data and close the inline editor, but then you give them some kind of indication that something more is happening... not unlike that Undo indicator Eli built.
[09:46:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The problem is that the thread which is in the stack trying to modify the model will not suspend
[09:46:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[09:46:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then, if validation fails, some user code could certainly roll back the changes.
[09:47:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It amounts to building a whole new "mini-component", which is very similar in functionality to Undo
[09:47:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It should be straightforward, though, right?
[09:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We could probably guide them through it if they really wanted to try.
[09:47:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, for various values of "straightforward" (tongue)
[09:47:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[09:47:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes, we could guide them
[09:48:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> let me just read Undo for a bit and see how close it is...
[09:48:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think the issue might just be that they're not really JavaScript programmers, so some of the mechanics would be challenging in themselves.
[09:48:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[09:48:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I would expect them to seem fairly challenging
[09:49:02 EDT(-0400)] * athena (n=athena@99.129.101.129) has joined #fluid-work
[09:49:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Looking at Undo, it would be a lot easier to deal with this if Undo itself fired further events
[09:49:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Which would certainly be something easy for us to support
[09:49:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The Undo component itself has 3 internal states
[09:50:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> These are publically advertised, but it would be helpful if you received specific events tied to transitions between these
[09:50:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Then it would largely be a matter of "reskinning" Undo so that, for example, in some states it "disabled" the parent control with some kind of spinner, rather than "annotating" it the way it currently does
[09:51:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I guess using Undo as a base is not really ideal though
[09:52:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It's just a useful model for a generalised component which is "parasitic" on InlineEdit, and listens to its events and manipulates its model
[09:54:05 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: it is the model manipulation that is the real problem. They are able to listen to the onFinishEdit event and verify the input, place the error message, but the model retains the erroneous entry...
[09:55:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah, it's definitely a model but we'd probably not want to use Undo directly
[09:55:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, they have to update the model themselves
[09:55:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There has been some refactoring necessary in this area for a long time. I'm thinking way back to Eli's original implementation questions about this.
[09:55:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We have a method called that.updateModelValue()
[09:55:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ah.
[09:55:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[09:55:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so they could use that to rewrite to model directly
[09:56:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, that is what it is for (tongue)
[09:56:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay... so maybe that's all they need
[09:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Could well be
[09:56:18 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=michelle@CPE001310472ade-CM0011aefd3ca8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[09:56:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> They do need something to avoid "flash" or "flicker" in the UI though
[09:56:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> will that update the display text or will they just need to manually change that too
[09:56:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But I guess they can choose how to handle that
[09:56:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay.. thanks... i'll see what they can do with that...
[09:57:15 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1, colinclark: do you think we still need to add a specific validation feature
[09:57:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The updateModel methods naturally update the UI in sequence...
[09:57:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Justin_o: No, validation is not part of the InlineEdit facilities
[09:57:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> However we will have more useful customisation points at the DARApplier level
[09:57:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Perhaps for the next release
[09:57:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Agreed.
[09:57:49 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens (n=sgithens@ginger.caret.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fluid-work
[09:57:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I need to do a few things with this for the Pager work
[09:58:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> So it might happen naturally
[09:58:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> validation is a model-directed, not a component-directed feature
[09:58:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i see... so i'll let them know about the updateModel method for now
[09:58:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thanks
[09:58:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so the other question was about reorderer
[09:59:20 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3121
[09:59:42 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3119
[09:59:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Justin_o: carry on, but I was just mentioning that sgithens is now here
[10:00:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> He has been looking at some KETTOL issues and so we could/should confer with YURA
[10:00:20 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura: ^
[10:00:26 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> Bosmo1: did you get a chance to try that patch?
[10:00:34 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> for the file urls?
[10:01:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> sgithens: Just going to
[10:01:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yura isn't in here....
[10:01:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Justin_o: Those are very nice reports from Chris Hubick....
[10:02:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I'm just reading up on Chris Hubrick's issue. He seems to have looked into the issue with a lot detail.
[10:02:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[10:02:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[10:03:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I feel that, simply understanding what is in his report will directly lead to a solution (smile)
[10:03:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But so far reading his reports leads my brain to go round in circles a bit....
[10:04:01 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> Bosmo1: at the end he does mention that he's not sure if he is missing something or there is a bug
[10:04:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, FLUID-3121 is, I think, clearly a kind of bug
[10:04:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It seems there is a kind of semantic hole in our contract...
[10:04:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes.... it did seem like we were missing some implementation along the line
[10:06:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> for the other one it seems to be working on our demo page... so that I'm unclear on that.
[10:06:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yeah, 3119 is a bit more perplexing
[10:07:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> And may depend on some details of the way that CSS file is set up
[10:07:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But I think his basic consideration for 3121 is correct, it may well be that the reorderLayout should call initView... or at the very least should do container deconversion
[10:07:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I think we never quite considered that these layout functions would be called directly by the user in normal cases though
[10:08:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> oh wait
[10:08:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This is the other-level initialiser
[10:08:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We should undoubtedly be doing all the usual stuff with a container argument passed in from a user.
[10:08:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If we're not, it's a bug.
[10:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The comments on fluid.reorderLayout are bollocks...
[10:09:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i.e. Calling fluid.container() on it.
[10:09:40 EDT(-0400)] * yura (n=yura@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[10:09:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Thankfully CATT cannot get me for swearing, since I am doing it in my own language (tongue)
[10:10:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[10:10:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1 is speaking British!
[10:10:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> OK, I see the issue here
[10:11:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We call initView as normal, but in fact forward the "container" argument to layoutHandler unmodified
[10:11:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> On Reorderer.js line 141, it should probably read "thatReorderer.container" rather than bare "container"
[10:11:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[10:11:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What a good bug report.
[10:11:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Ah
[10:12:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I see now that is exactly what Hubick says in the middle of his report (smile)
[10:12:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yes
[10:12:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: If you see hubick in the channel today, tell him he rocks.
[10:12:52 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Has he ever been in the channel?
[10:12:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yesterday
[10:12:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And previous to that.
[10:13:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> cool
[10:13:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Did he say anything?
[10:13:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: will do (smile)
[10:13:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If I remember correctly, he's working on a kind of Java-based mini portal
[10:13:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Wacky.... a portal
[10:13:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Never heard of anyone trying to make one of those (tongue)
[10:14:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: I've pretty much got this new Image Reorderer example all set now. Would you be willing to give it a bit of a code review before I send it off to Mr. Paul?
[10:15:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> My last issue is that the drop marker has spontaneously disappeared.
[10:16:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sure, I'll take a look at it
[10:17:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k, i'll commit shortly
[10:18:07 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> Bosmo1: As to the last issue I found, it is possible to call Context.exit before enter because it's in a finally block. So if the file isn't found it goes straight there
[10:18:28 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> RhinoLoader.java:51
[10:18:37 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> err, 57
[10:20:26 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> ah, and this is the thing that I can't actually 'ls'
[10:20:29 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> /home/sgithens/code/engage-sketches/src/webapp/kettle/../../../../fluid-infusion/src/webapp/lib/jquery/core/js/jquery.js
[10:20:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You can't ls it?
[10:21:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Ah, yura is back
[10:21:46 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: No. I'm trying to figure if the nesting of up directories is wrong
[10:21:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Btw, I found this most hilarious article/preso: http://onestepback.org/articles/depinj/index.html
[10:21:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah
[10:21:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> "Dependency Injection:
[10:21:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Vitally Important or
[10:21:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Totally Irrelevant?"
[10:23:32 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> oh
[10:23:44 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> jquery.js doesn't actually exist in the engage-sketches checkout
[10:23:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The article is pretty interesting and thoughtful, but I think still nonsensical...
[10:24:10 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> sgithens@sgithens:~/code/engage-sketches$ find ./ -name jquery.js
[10:24:19 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> not in there
[10:24:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> sgithens - you need to check out fluid-infusion in parallel
[10:24:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We have just made a "checkouts" SVN thing so this should now be possible
[10:24:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We've got the new fluid-all which you could check out.
[10:24:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes, that
[10:24:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yes
[10:24:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Is fluid-engage-sketches in there yet?
[10:25:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There are naming issues I've been meaning to mention.
[10:25:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I screwed it up a bit, rushing away.
[10:25:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: It is there, yes.
[10:25:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But it's inaccurately named "kettle"
[10:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I see
[10:25:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> When in fact it's Kettle + other stuff (tongue)
[10:25:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Could we continue with the plan of naming directories and projects as "fluid-xxxx"?
[10:26:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll fix that today, or beg someone else to fix it for me. (smile)
[10:26:12 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> is this under the incubator still?
[10:26:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I could try
[10:26:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: This is because you want them all grouped together in your Eclipse?
[10:26:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: Partially, yes (tongue)
[10:26:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: You can check out fluid-all here:
[10:26:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/fluid-all
[10:26:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> beat me to it
[10:26:41 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> cheers
[10:26:52 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This is the SVN location he is talking about.... but I think we need to fix up the externals a bit
[10:26:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, then, you're suggesting
[10:26:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-all/
[10:27:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-infusion/
[10:27:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-engage-client/
[10:27:14 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> is the doco for kettol on a wiki page or README.txt ?
[10:27:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> .. and for the moment ...
[10:27:22 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> sgithens: There is nothing for kettol at all
[10:27:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-engage-server/
[10:27:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> So far it is pure "technology-demonstration"
[10:27:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> which will contain both Kettle and the other stuff
[10:27:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: We are documentation free on Kettle at the moment.
[10:27:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: Unfortunatly the "other stuff" doesn't even come under the heading of "fluid engage server" (tongue)
[10:27:49 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> we should note somewhere that it requires a JVM 6
[10:27:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We welcome contributions
[10:27:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Well, some of it does.
[10:27:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> The other stuff is experimental document conversion stuff
[10:28:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yeah, some of it (tongue)
[10:28:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok
[10:28:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But yes
[10:28:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Broadly that naming would be what I am suggesting
[10:28:25 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> where do you want me to note it? Wiki page? README?
[10:28:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So let's call it all fluid-engage-server for now, and then note that this all needs to be properly split apart in time for the 0.1 release.
[10:28:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Why not start with a wiki page?
[10:28:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I think the only important linkage right now is that "infusion" be called "fluid-infusion"
[10:28:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Since that is the path that kettle expects to find it at
[10:29:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Kettle
[10:29:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: You want to name things based on where Kettle expects them to be? (tongue)
[10:30:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That wasn't exactly my implication (tongue)
[10:30:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Ok, so we're resolved...
[10:30:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-all/
[10:30:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-infusion/
[10:30:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-engage-client/
[10:30:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid-engage-server/
[10:31:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> for now?
[10:31:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That seems good to me
[10:31:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> And might even seem logical to people...
[10:31:17 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Bosmo1: would you be able to remind how you were able to load external scripts and css files in kettle.html
[10:31:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled also mentioned that there's one other renaming that should happne.
[10:31:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yura, there is a really serious problem with the current Kettle implementation
[10:31:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: If you have the cycles to do this renaming (sorry I screwed it up), please go for it.
[10:31:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yura: It currently references "external" matters using raw file urls
[10:32:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Mysteriously, this will work for a few kinds of file on a few kinds of browser
[10:32:09 EDT(-0400)] <yura> right
[10:32:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But is a ridiculous abuse of security
[10:32:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It is the very next thing I planned to fix up...
[10:32:38 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Bosmo1: I wasnt even able to load /images/that_kettle_img.png
[10:32:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I think Firefox 2 is one of the more laxer browsers in this respect
[10:32:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I also think I could load that image in Opera (tongue)
[10:33:07 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Bosmo1: let me try right now
[10:33:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Anyway, don't worry if the actual resolution doesn't seem to work for you
[10:33:15 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: Can I get perms to edit the Kettle page? And I'll put in a short nutshell doco on checking it out and starting it up
[10:33:22 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> If the app starts out without any errors, and serves the HTML page ok, you are seeing as much as anyone sees (tongue)
[10:33:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, FF has become much less lax post-version 2.
[10:33:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Anyone can edit anything in our wiki as long as they have an account.
[10:33:54 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> oh
[10:34:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This is a "tech demo" remember - work stalled on this whilst we waited for the "will of the community", and when I went on holiday (tongue)
[10:34:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Do you see a Page Operations menu along the left hand side Evil Navigation Bar?
[10:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> the page operations are down on the bottom here
[10:34:31 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> yup
[10:34:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> wicked. Sorry our wiki theme sucks.
[10:35:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Oh yes
[10:35:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1, yura: Everyone here knows that this is just the beginning for Kettle, and that it's a bit rickety at the moment. No judgement at all.
[10:35:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I sent a message about that out to the list about changing the theme, but didn't get any reply
[10:35:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I tried to change the theme back to the default myself, but found I was missing some permissions
[10:35:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It seemed I needed to be a "Space Administrator" (tongue)
[10:36:29 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: Actually, your theme is probably one of the nicer ones I've seen grafted on confluence
[10:37:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Yeah, you have to be an admin to change the theme.
[10:37:04 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: yes, the 'infusionTesting' directory in the engage-client space should just be 'tests'
[10:37:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You didn't get a response on list, and that's a drag. jessm and I did chat about it briefly and the feeling was that 1) we didn't want to freak out our new steering committee by suddenly changing the theme, and 2) we didn't have anyone with the time to follow it through at the moment.
[10:38:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That is to say that we all agree it sucks, and we do want to improve it.
[10:38:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's just a question of finding the time and attention to do it.
[10:40:15 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> wow, you really don't like the theme? Might as well switch to an open source wiki if you're going to change it. (smile)
[10:40:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: We'd love to. But almost every wiki sucks.
[10:41:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> What I'd really like is a good, accessible wiki and bug tracker that anyone can use, regardless of how tech-savvy they are.
[10:41:25 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Bosmo1: the only way everything is loaded for me is when I change wevApp str when creating WebAppContext in JettyLauncher
[10:41:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Strangely, Confluence and JIRA are about as good as they come, it seems.
[10:46:27 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens manages to stay focused on this bug rather than plow into a debate about OSS project management suites
[10:49:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[10:49:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah, I should do the same.
[10:52:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: I just committed against http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3122
[10:52:56 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> ok, I'll take a look
[10:53:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Here is the new HTML page: http://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/trunk/src/webapp/standalone-demos/reorderer/html/improved-form-image-reorderer.html
[10:53:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll work with fj4000 today to get it looking awesome again.
[10:53:29 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> (smile)
[10:53:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But you'll notice the significant lack of colons or id tags.
[10:53:38 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> (smile)
[10:53:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Next up, I'll make it properly progressively enhanceable, since that is something we had meant to do for a long time now.
[10:53:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Then I 'll thrash the documentation.
[10:54:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ultimately, Mr. Paul's biggest problem is that he somehow found this page, which is horrendously out of date:
[10:54:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/afterMove+Callback
[10:54:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I mean, someone updated the name of the callback in the documentation, but didn't touch the code! (tongue)
[10:55:05 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we should probably set some time aside for wiki gardening after 1.2
[10:55:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah, that'd be a good idea
[10:56:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> sgithens: The issue is that we did change the theme (tongue)
[10:56:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> All I was suggesting was that we returned to the default...
[11:01:32 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens continues to avoid the theme of wikis because it will just lead to him spending the rest of the afternoon checking out the newly open sourced launchpad code and playing with it
[11:04:21 EDT(-0400)] * jamon has been meaning to try it too, just don't want to fight with it on a non-ubuntu machine
[11:13:01 EDT(-0400)] * laurel1 (n=Laurel@142.150.154.178) has joined #fluid-work
[11:23:32 EDT(-0400)] * alisonbenjamin (n=alisonbe@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[11:34:31 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=michelle@CPE001310472ade-CM0011aefd3ca8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work
[11:46:56 EDT(-0400)] * alisonbenjamin (n=alisonbe@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[11:56:59 EDT(-0400)] <athena> does anyone have any insight into what's likely to cause "template is undefined" in the fluid pager?
[12:05:17 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[12:09:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Ok, let's get Mr. sgithens some commit access.
[12:09:51 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sure
[12:11:32 EDT(-0400)] * Bosmo1 (n=Antranig@ginger.caret.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fluid-work
[12:11:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yura: I have made a few Kettle patches dealing with JDK 5 compatibility and the UNIX file:/// issue
[12:11:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Could you update and see if they work for you?
[12:18:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin and I updated the List of Current Committers page to include a table for incubator contributors, along with who is their assigned mentor: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/List+of+Current+Fluid+Committers
[12:19:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: You around?
[12:19:50 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: Hello!
[12:20:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Are you okay with your mtu.edu email address as your account name for Fluid's svn?
[12:20:26 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> definately, it's what I use for everything
[12:20:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Email addresses tend to be our convention, though a few of us have bucked the trend.
[12:20:30 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Cool
[12:20:33 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> swgithen@mtu.edu
[12:21:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Did you come up with the name "fluid-noncore" in our svn config? (tongue)
[12:21:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (wink)
[12:22:08 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, then I came up with a better name which I put in the wiki 'contributors'
[12:22:12 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> oh hey, I'm a thing now. Will I just get an email or something with my passwd?
[12:22:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Maybe I'll skype with you to give it to you? We try to keep these things vaguely secure if possible.
[12:22:48 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> cool
[12:22:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Because unfortunately there's no easy way right now for you to reset your password yourself.
[12:25:57 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> colinclark: I took at look at your commit for image reorderer - it looks much better. I'd love to see this as the default template in the component instead of the current one.
[12:26:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Me too!
[12:26:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Do you want to hop on skype real quick to talk passwords?
[12:26:54 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> um, let me download and install it quick
[12:27:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> oh, shoot
[12:27:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i'm sorry
[12:27:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> is there some other way?
[12:27:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> are you near a landline?
[12:27:14 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> I haven't used it on this netbook yet, but I really should get it
[12:28:25 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> it's so awesome they have it bundled for 7 different linux distros
[12:28:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> cool
[12:30:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: When you're back, I'd love to get some time from you to work on the new Image Reorderer example page.
[12:34:42 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark - sure, we can do it now
[12:34:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Gimme a few (smile)
[12:35:40 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: All setup and ran a test call. I'm sgithens on skype
[12:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Awesome, gimme one sec.
[12:36:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll call you
[12:36:24 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> smashing
[12:36:46 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark....hmmm, i dont see any drop markers in the new file....
[12:37:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: yep :0
[12:37:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[12:38:18 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> laurel1: are you there?
[12:51:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> okay, sgithens is all set up with commit access now
[12:51:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll post to the list
[12:52:27 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> colinclark: astronomic cheers
[12:54:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sgithens: Sorry the audio sucked while you were dictating passwords. (smile)
[12:55:22 EDT(-0400)] <sgithens> well, most people can't understand my diction when I'm two feet away from them, so I think you did pretty good
[12:55:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[12:56:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: I'm starving. Mind if I grab some food and ping you in half an hour or so?
[12:56:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I also want to get a birthday cake for Darcie. (smile)
[12:56:31 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> sure
[12:56:40 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i have a few solutions to fix up the demo for you
[12:56:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome
[12:56:51 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> more question too (tongue)
[12:56:57 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> *questions
[12:56:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In short, the instruction message was wonky, and the drop marker is missing
[12:57:10 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> can we clean it up a bit more too?
[12:57:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I am unconvinced that we need so much nesting in the actual thumbnails...
[12:57:20 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> yes, my thinking too
[12:57:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> This markup and CSS dates back several years ago to a design Seamus did. He was a wicked designer, but there's always room for improvement.
[12:57:36 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> ok
[12:57:46 EDT(-0400)] * yura (n=yura@142.150.82.110) has joined #fluid-work
[12:57:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'd like to get this sample to the point where it looks awesome, is super clean, and is ready to become the "template" for Image Reorderer.
[12:57:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i think we could take the quickstart reorderer demo and apply it to this
[12:58:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And do that by the end of the day. (wink)
[12:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok ,cool
[12:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> i'll have it ready prolly by the time you come back
[12:58:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome. see you soon
[13:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> Here's a general question to anyone:
[13:24:59 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> are our fl-* class names applicable to demo's or is it just for FSS and templates?
[13:27:34 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@142.150.154.101) has joined #fluid-work
[13:31:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: I'm back. How's it going?
[13:34:23 EDT(-0400)] * hubick (n=hubick@cs14.pc.athabascau.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[13:34:52 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> good. Did you see ^^
[13:35:38 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark: i was wondering: are our fl-* class names applicable to demo's or is it just for FSS and templates?
[13:39:15 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> woo! I got my layout reorderer working with the callback URL (big grin) Yay Fluid! I even got a JSON parser hooked up on the backend (smile)
[13:39:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Wicked!
[13:39:26 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[13:39:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hubick: Your bug report was exceptionally clear. Thanks so much.
[13:40:07 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> colinclark: hah, i wrote that at 2am after fudging through venkment JS debugger for a few hours, so that's surprising (smile)
[13:40:59 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Is it obvious to you guys how to fix it? Or should I try to muddle my way through a patch?
[13:41:40 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> I think some renaming of 'container' variables to either 'containerSpec' or 'containerElement' would be good (smile)
[13:42:15 EDT(-0400)] * hubick prefers strongly typed languages like Java
[13:43:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hubick: It's actually really clear what the fix is. The container argument passed by the user to the component is always run through a function, fluid.container(), that ensures it's unique and normalizes it to a jQuery instance.
[13:43:38 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> colinclark: ok, so, like the image reorderer does. do you plan to call directly, or via that view.init stuff?
[13:43:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The bug was simply that we were passing the raw container argument, instead of the normalized one.
[13:43:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Easy fix we'll get into Infusion 1.2. And your report made it really trivial to track down.
[13:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> colinclark: hey, glad i can help give something back in exchange for all the free code (smile)
[13:44:52 EDT(-0400)] * hubick volunteers to be test case
[13:45:08 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Oh, Hi Chris (tongue)
[13:45:16 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Bosmo1: hey (smile)
[13:45:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Isn't there a little more to the fix than the 1 line in Reorderer.js?
[13:45:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Your description mentioned some oddities in ImageReorderer also
[13:45:40 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> The image reorderer looks weird too, yeah....
[13:45:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hubick, meet Bosmo1, who has done a lot of work on the Reorderer.
[13:45:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I am making substantial changes to the Image Reorderer for Infusion 1.2 as we speak, in fact.
[13:46:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Did I miss a JIRA about it?
[13:46:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We will certainly make the fix in Reorderer
[13:46:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But I got distracted thinking about test cases....
[13:47:00 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I started a renewed hunt for a proper mock for XmlHttpRequest, and then my attention wandered....
[13:47:02 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> it defines var addThumbnailActivateHandler = function (lightboxContainer), but calls that from the main initializer with the container spec, not the element
[13:47:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: I think anastasiac was using jqMock for mocking xhr in unit tests.
[13:47:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Ah yes
[13:47:48 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> in the handler, it does $(lightboxContainer).keypress(enterKeyHandler);, which to me implies it expects that to be an element?
[13:47:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This is certainly an example of the same cabberwonkiness
[13:48:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Thanks for catching these, Chris
[13:48:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> They will definitely both be fixed for the next release
[13:48:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hubick: Lemme take a look. That code is all going to be deprecated shortly, thankfully. But I'll fix it asap while I'm already working on it.
[13:48:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep, that's it
[13:48:59 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> I can't imagine that many people build portals and such?
[13:49:12 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> not too many testers i guess (sad)
[13:49:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Chris... I would say it is the most prevalent occupational disease in the current developer population (tongue)
[13:49:39 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Bosmo1: hah, really?
[13:49:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Only yesterday we discovered that two of our own developers were developing portals (tongue)
[13:50:00 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Bosmo1: I been working on mine for 2 years
[13:50:03 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Although one of them was a one-app portal...
[13:50:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> One of our main consumers is also a portal.... the "uPortal" community
[13:50:28 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> mine is more like, a REST based aggregating HTTP proxy than a portal
[13:50:44 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Bosmo1: I heard of you guys through uPortal... I run one of those as my day job
[13:50:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> cool
[13:52:19 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> I'm aiming NOT to do portlets though - I think most portals are just poor application server implementations... just pure HTTP and only a proxy channel for me.
[13:52:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, portlets are a very strange idea
[13:53:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Like most Java technologies, they specify exactly the most useless part of the system
[13:53:14 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> the spec forces you to do sessions and cookies, and I don't like that
[13:53:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That is, they specify almost nothing about the behaviour of the system in the world of the user (tongue)
[13:54:13 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> I could graft pluto onto wwweee-portal, but i think i will code JCR/Alfresco integration instead (smile)
[13:54:21 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That is, in terms of wire protocols, markup and namespaces in CSS and Javascript
[13:57:07 EDT(-0400)] <hubick> Bosmo1: they would have been better to just create a wire protocol to allow for tighter integration between back-end web apps written in any language, and the portal
[13:57:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark: I can't find anything inside jqMock that does that, but perhaps I didn't look hard enough
[13:57:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, it's interesting.
[13:57:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I found this, inside jsUnit: http://www.koders.com/javascript/fid1862D3D77106F15D74097F49082D1F9D36777680.aspx?s=xmlhttprequest
[13:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's not a mock xhr as you'd imagine it.
[13:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But it is a bit pathetic, as a Mock
[13:57:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well... does it actually do anything (tongue)
[13:57:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But you can essentially use it to create a mock xhr, if that makes sense.
[13:57:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yes, JSUnit always had that mock.
[13:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac sent an email, I think to fluid-work, about her use of jqMock.
[13:58:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Maybe check out the archives and see what you think?
[13:58:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> ok
[13:58:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> No guarantees it's what you want.
[13:58:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I find a mail from some joker calling himself "Colin Clark"....
[13:59:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[13:59:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> what a joker
[13:59:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Do you remember AC's post about jqMock, or am I dreaming?
[13:59:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> http://www.nabble.com/Using-jqMock-to-test-AJAX-calls-td24745626.html
[13:59:46 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This post, I think
[14:00:04 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> she posted on july 30
[14:00:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> Using jqMock to test AJAX calls
[14:00:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep, that's it
[14:00:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I was on vacation then, which is why I only remember it fuzzily.
[14:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well
[14:00:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> This is, as you say, odd....
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[14:02:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I am now reading the Fowler article, but don't feel particularly illuminated
[14:02:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> In any case, this "mock" doesn't deal with the part of the problem I am interested in (tongue)
[14:03:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> "So should I be a classicist or a mockist?
[14:03:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I find this a difficult question to answer with confidence. Personally I've always been a old fashioned classic TDDer and thus far I don't see any reason to change. I don't see any compelling benefits for mockist TDD, and am concerned about the consequences of coupling tests to implementation."
[14:05:05 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It seems what I really want is an XHR "stub"
[14:05:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> According to this lingo
[14:13:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: So what do you want it to do?
[14:14:34 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> laurel1: are you there now?
[14:15:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: She is here now, but seems to be distracted chatting with Justin_o.
[14:15:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, I want it to actually behave in the plausible manner of an XHR request
[14:15:56 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> thanks colinclark
[14:16:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I want it to accept the arguments, and then asynchronously invoke a callback with some file and status data
[14:16:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> anyone happen to have insight into why root:"#_moodleactivities_WAR_MoodlePortlet_activitiesPager table tbody" wouldn't work as a selector?
[14:17:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Yeah, jqMock won't cut it there.
[14:17:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We really are probably going to have to roll our own xhr mock
[14:18:04 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> michelled: I am here
[14:18:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Any insights into athena's question? Seems pretty interesting.
[14:18:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> colinclark: really interested in what you come up with for testing ajax
[14:18:53 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i wrote some unit tests for javascript in one of my last projects and definitely ran into problems w/ all the xhr code
[14:18:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> colinclark, athena: Just looked up the XML id rules, and it is permitted to start with an underscore
[14:19:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmo1: it's not the underscores, apparently
[14:19:14 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> So I can't see it is invalid on that front
[14:19:16 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[14:19:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> What sort of "not working" are you seeing?
[14:19:40 EDT(-0400)] <athena> since "#_moodleactivities_WAR_MoodlePortlet_activitiesTableBody" does work
[14:19:51 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i don't know if it doesn't like the multiple tagnames in there?
[14:20:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i get a "template is undefined" error
[14:20:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> !
[14:20:37 EDT(-0400)] <athena> debugging it with firebug it looked like the that.locate("root") was returning "undefined"
[14:20:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> template is undefined!
[14:20:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, the string is just handed to jQuery
[14:21:17 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Is the tbody actually there?
[14:21:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> it's odd though, because i tried doing console.log($("#_moodleactivities_WAR_MoodlePortlet_activitiesPager table tbody")) and that worked
[14:21:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> gah
[14:21:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, what did it log?
[14:21:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena> a table body (smile)
[14:22:12 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and it's inside a $(document).ready() block, so i wouldn't think it's some sort of timing issue
[14:22:34 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll try and find some time to try something similar in a simpler environment and see if i can reproduce it
[14:22:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Actually I can't see a code path for the DOM binder to return undefined
[14:22:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It should never do that
[14:22:41 EDT(-0400)] <athena> oh
[14:22:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i've definitely gotten that
[14:22:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Again, unless that is what we get back from jQuery
[14:22:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[14:23:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> well usually when i see "template is undefined" it's because i typo'd the element id of the root or something
[14:23:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, jQuery should never be returning undefined.... it certainly never used to do that
[14:23:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> intersting
[14:23:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Not in the "good old days"
[14:23:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i've seen this in both liferay and uportal now
[14:23:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> (sad)
[14:23:57 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think with jQuery 1.3.2
[14:24:10 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i mean, as long as i feed it data it likes it all works and everything (smile)
[14:24:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but it's a confusing error to get
[14:24:22 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We may have to patch up the framework to compensate for this... but all the same, it seems even more impossible
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[14:24:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> If we get undefined from jQuery, it seems we will probably throw an exception
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[14:25:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I can't see a code path for this to happen at all
[14:25:22 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Can you make up a test case?
[14:25:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes, i'll do that
[14:25:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Thanks
[14:25:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll try and do that tonight and make sure i can reproduce it
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[14:25:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Awesome
[14:25:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and will send you the files when i get it not-working
[14:25:40 EDT(-0400)] <athena> (smile)
[14:25:44 EDT(-0400)] <athena> thanks!
[14:26:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> athena: Are you really sure it was returning "undefined"?
[14:26:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> There is an interesting issue with the latest Firebug
[14:27:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> good question, i suppose
[14:27:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It reports the top level structure for a compound object as "undefined"
[14:27:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> interesting
[14:27:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But if you unfold it, you will find stuff inside
[14:27:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll have to look closer
[14:27:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I really can't understand how they can't get Firebug right...
[14:27:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena> "template is undefined" was certainly the printed error message, but i'll look closer at the dom structure
[14:27:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Ok, fine, it is the best debugger we have
[14:27:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But still
[14:28:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> hey, better than IE
[14:28:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> yes
[14:29:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> "what? it doesn't work on ie? well i didn't test there and i uhhh . . . i gotta get lunch bye!"
[14:29:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> IE6 support has now been extended to 2014 ...
[14:30:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena> seriously!?
[14:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <athena> hasn't yahoo dropped it off the supported list for most OSes?
[14:31:09 EDT(-0400)] <laurel1> michelled: i am here..sorry for the irc tag game
[14:31:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> athena: they still have it on for Win XP
[14:31:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> (sad)
[14:31:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, I guess Microsoft's support and the industry's are two different matters
[14:31:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But, all the same
[14:32:44 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i have to say the fluid pager crops up as a solution all the time
[14:33:13 EDT(-0400)] <athena> it's sort of surprising how often it's the fluid component we use most heavily
[14:33:42 EDT(-0400)] <athena> you can live with an application that doesn't have cool draggable bits
[14:33:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but just about everything has to list data items at some point
[14:34:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Ah
[14:34:26 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> laurel1: did you want to talk about your todo items in the builder?
[14:34:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes, I am just beginning to blast the bits out of the pager
[14:34:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> You should discover the new design a lot more flexible and logical...
[14:34:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Although, unfortunately, practically 100% API incompatible (sad)
[14:35:10 EDT(-0400)] <athena> well, i approve of flexible and logical
[14:35:30 EDT(-0400)] <athena> dan mentioned that in 1.1.1 the pager's capable of re-rendering itself or something?
[14:35:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> ?
[14:36:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i don't know
[14:36:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll ask him what he was talking about (smile)
[14:36:36 EDT(-0400)] <athena> rather than asking you
[14:36:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well
[14:36:41 EDT(-0400)] <athena> because that would probably be more effective
[14:36:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> What did you understand, from what he said? (tongue)
[14:37:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> not much.
[14:37:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena> rather scattered today, apparently
[14:37:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll follow up with him (smile)
[14:37:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, there have been no changes in pager for 1.1.1 versus 1.1
[14:37:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> So any features that were in there were ones that were in 1.0
[14:38:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> that's good to know
[14:39:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> 1.1.1 was an update release mainly fixing bugs in Reorderer and InlineEdit
[14:39:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Apart from those couple of fixes you requested to fetchResources
[14:39:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena> ah
[14:39:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes
[14:40:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i just upgraded uportal trunk to 1.1.1
[14:40:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i need to check that in
[14:44:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Then away they/we go to an island fair
[14:44:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That lies in a Southern sea:
[14:44:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We know not where, and we don't much care,
[14:44:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Wherever that isle may be.
[15:26:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The isle of yura, maybe?
[15:27:01 EDT(-0400)] <yura> hey colinclark
[15:42:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hey yura
[15:42:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sorry, i was just responding to Bosmo1 funny song
[15:42:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura: How are things going? Are you getting Kettle working now?
[15:43:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess the Isle of Jura is one of these Scotch producing islands.
[15:43:54 EDT(-0400)] <yura> colinclark: well Kettle is working (smile), although I need to change some paths in jettyJauncher, in particular a webApp path
[15:44:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, cool
[15:56:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena> colinclark: it is indeed
[15:56:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena> we have some of their produce handy, in fact
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[15:57:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome
[15:59:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Hey yura
[16:00:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmo1: Do you like Jura scotch?
[16:00:33 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Well, it is ok
[16:00:36 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I think it is a bit "cheapo"
[16:00:40 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (tongue)
[16:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Although I ahve only tried their low-end stuff...
[16:00:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But it is the sort you get in supermarkets here
[16:01:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> That said, you usually get low-end Bowmore in supermarkets too...
[16:01:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But I like the low-end Bowmore!
[16:01:21 EDT(-0400)] <yura> hey Bosmo1
[16:01:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Yes
[16:01:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I meant it by contrast (tongue)
[16:01:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[16:01:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena> we generally don't get their low end - it's not great
[16:02:09 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think the brand of the day in our household right now is edradour
[16:02:10 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Oh benighted Canadians, never to know the joys of getting Whisky in a Supermarket (tongue)
[16:02:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[16:02:22 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> scotch is for those who don't own a nose hair trimmer
[16:02:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Hmm
[16:02:36 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> (smile)
[16:02:41 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> An unusually offensive remark for our politico CATT (tongue)
[16:02:47 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> lol
[16:02:52 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Have you been drinking? (tongue)
[16:02:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Or, perhaps trimming your nose....
[16:03:02 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> oh no! how did you know – Hendricks!
[16:03:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Clearly, you can't have been doing both....
[16:03:11 EDT(-0400)] <athena> when i visit arizona i'm always tempted to buy hard liquor from the grocery store at 1AM
[16:03:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena> just because i can
[16:03:16 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> with cucumbers — mmmmmm
[16:03:22 EDT(-0400)] * athena rebels against ct's blue laws
[16:03:41 EDT(-0400)] * athena has not been drinking enough, today
[16:04:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I just had my Pint, at lunch...
[16:04:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> We will probably get to some Whisky, later on....
[16:04:34 EDT(-0400)] <athena> every time i see gin i just remember a freshman year classmate exclaiming "it tastes like pine trees!"
[16:04:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I have some Longrow C.V. as well as some Arran 10
[16:04:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena> you guys seem to have a good time while working (smile)
[16:05:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I guess the time change helps for Bosmo1. (smile)
[16:05:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> indeed (smile)
[16:05:47 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i'm trying to teach Piglet to mix Gin and Tonics
[16:05:50 EDT(-0400)] <athena> hey i have nothing against a nice relaxed lunch
[16:05:53 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it's not going so well
[16:05:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena> unfortunate
[16:06:22 EDT(-0400)] <athena> cleo doesn't really help either - mostly just threatens to knock things down
[16:06:31 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Did you see this incredible CATTT story? http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1230101599&amp;count=1
[16:07:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena> http://yfrog.com/0w97ymj
[16:07:28 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> I was telling Colin that this closely resembles my traditional problem-solving techniques...
[16:07:47 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> gah
[16:07:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> How cuddly is a SSSNAKE!
[16:08:12 EDT(-0400)] <athena> well, if she's around your neck, you kind of hope not too cuddly
[16:08:25 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> holy cow – you have a snake?
[16:08:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> CATTs are harder to keep as illegal dorm pets
[16:08:29 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes
[16:08:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena> she doesn't get to come out much when i'm working because she likes to lay on the keyboard
[16:09:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> she's got good taste – sam adams double bock
[16:09:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> But she has no useful way of pressing the keys (tongue)
[16:09:36 EDT(-0400)] <athena> jessm: yes (smile)
[16:09:42 EDT(-0400)] * athena likes dark beers, particularly good ones
[16:10:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmo1: well, they get pressed if she lays on them right
[16:10:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> she's also learned out to take off my glasses and hair tie
[16:10:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> ....
[16:10:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> With teeth?
[16:11:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena> no, she'll just hook it with her head/body/whatever
[16:11:42 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i look forward to having a mammal someday, but she's pretty friendly and low-maintenance
[16:11:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> She could probably also eat RawMeatyBones
[16:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: quick question?
[16:12:44 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> sure
[16:13:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000 and I are working on a renewed Image Reorderer example.
[16:13:19 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: that's great
[16:13:28 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> just committing the caption cleanup
[16:13:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If you update, you'll find it in the Reorderer standalone demos folder called improved-form-image-reorderer.html
[16:13:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I can get it to break in FF2
[16:14:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm wondering if you have 5 mintues to bash on it with your subtle component-breaking expertise?
[16:15:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> colinclark: sure will do
[16:16:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o: thanks so much
[16:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Which, perhaps, a judgement hasty
[16:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Might consider rather tasty:
[16:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> Once (to speak without disguise)
[16:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmo1> It found favour in our eyes.
[16:34:10 EDT(-0400)] <athena> Bosmo1: do you have tips for figuring out why column sorting isn't doing anything on a pager component?
[16:34:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm quite sure it's something stupid that i did
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[18:49:16 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> jessm, Bosmo1, others: I'm going to set up a new project in jira for Engage any thoughts on what the project key should be... this is what will be displayed in front of the jira issue number... so currently we have FLUID-###
[18:51:29 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> It should be something short but descriptive
[18:56:04 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> we've been using "engage" as a filter tag
[18:56:08 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> not sure if you want to use that
[18:56:40 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> jessm: yes... that was my first thought too... so it would look something like Engage-100
[18:56:47 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yes
[18:56:56 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> and there will likely still be Fluid-xxx
[18:57:13 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> yes... for the infusion components
[18:57:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> they are basically synonymous with infusion, right?
[18:57:16 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> yes
[18:57:18 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> (smile)
[18:57:55 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> thanks... i'm also talking to Bosmo1 on IM he's having trouble getting into the channel
[18:58:00 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> it seems you can make the change and then if others are concerned with the name, as long as there aren't a number of issues with that name, you can always change it
[18:58:04 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ah
[18:58:05 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ok
[18:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> i'm heading out
[18:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> have a great week!
[18:58:16 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> jessm: you too
[18:58:19 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> have a good vacation
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[21:30:22 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark (n=colin@bas2-toronto09-1176130836.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #fluid-work
[21:49:57 EDT(-0400)] * yura (n=yura@70.53.44.87) has joined #fluid-work
[22:05:41 EDT(-0400)] * justin_o (n=jmo@CPE000f6653d93c-CM00223a6ac9e1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fluid-work