fluid-work IRC Logs-2009-07-24

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Jul 24, 2009Version comment
12 min read

[08:19:32 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[08:31:09 EDT(-0400)] * fj4000 (n=Jacob@142.150.154.106) has joined #fluid-work
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[10:01:51 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: do you have a moment?
[10:01:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura: hello
[10:02:20 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: I was going through the state tests for fixed inline edits
[10:02:33 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yep
[10:03:04 EDT(-0400)] <yura> the only bug I found is when using a kboard, I cant tab out of the advanced editor in firefox
[10:03:26 EDT(-0400)] <yura> i dont think it's been tested before , hence was not caught
[10:03:44 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> hmmm.... right.... i think there was a similar problem... maybe with fck....
[10:04:40 EDT(-0400)] <yura> I think with fck I simple can't tab into the menues
[10:04:48 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ah okay... so different
[10:05:10 EDT(-0400)] <yura> ya, once i'm in opened advanced tinymce i cant get out
[10:05:11 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> do you know of another example of tinyMCE that uses the advanced theme that we can test against
[10:05:26 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'm wondering if it is capturing the "tab" key
[10:06:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/examples/full.php#
[10:06:34 EDT(-0400)] <yura> ya this one works
[10:06:36 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> this seems to work with tab so we may have to do some investigation of this
[10:06:47 EDT(-0400)] <yura> it continues with the rest of the page
[10:08:01 EDT(-0400)] <yura> but this is a different issue from the original one right ? it would need a new jira?
[10:08:07 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yes
[10:08:10 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i believe so...
[10:08:18 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> unless it is something broken with the patch
[10:08:37 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i'm going to do a quick test of our old system and just switch it to advanced theme and see if it works
[10:08:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> do the simple themed ones work?
[10:08:53 EDT(-0400)] <yura> well simple editor works and it uses the same "priming" and initialization
[10:09:04 EDT(-0400)] <yura> yes they work
[10:12:34 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura: can you shift-tab out of the editor
[10:13:22 EDT(-0400)] <yura> one sec
[10:13:49 EDT(-0400)] <yura> yes that works
[10:14:25 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> i think we are getting stuck in the toolbar somehow
[10:15:16 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> do you know what the options for the tinyMCE editor are... i'm wondering if the bottom of the toolbar defaults to placing the tab back into the textarea
[10:17:03 EDT(-0400)] <yura> let me look into it
[10:18:35 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura: hmm... i moved the toolbar to the top, but now i can't shift-tab to the toolbar... but i can tab out
[10:36:25 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura: any luck?
[10:37:35 EDT(-0400)] <yura> ya I tried the same thing , I can't shift tab out of the text area
[10:37:52 EDT(-0400)] <yura> looking into other advanced_theme options
[10:37:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay...
[10:46:13 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: so shift doesn't work either for their example : http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/examples/full.php#
[10:46:24 EDT(-0400)] <yura> i ment shift tab
[10:57:24 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> ah okay... good...so it is there fault
[10:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <yura> yep
[10:58:30 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> okay... so we should think about what our default style should be
[10:58:37 EDT(-0400)] * alisonbenjamin (n=alisonbe@207.112.112.30) has joined #fluid-work
[10:59:38 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: hi
[10:59:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: morning
[11:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: morning. are you ok with a visit to the DIA on August 26-28
[11:00:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Justin_o and I are just working out the logistics of those dates now...
[11:00:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Making sure our release is gonna be okay with that trip.
[11:01:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hold tight for a bit and we'll get back to you.
[11:01:59 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: sure thing. thanks.
[11:06:33 EDT(-0400)] * sgithens342f (n=sgithens@149.166.143.211) has joined #fluid-work
[11:07:08 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: yes, it is on their side, I found this plugin http://code.google.com/p/tabjump/ , tried it, but it doesn't seem to work
[11:33:10 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: hey Justin I just submitted the latest patch for review: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3054. Could you please take a look.
[11:37:44 EDT(-0400)] <yura> in case it wasn't committed yet (smile)
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[11:50:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> alisonbenjamin: It looks like we're going to put an Infusion 1.1.1 release in a few weeks instead of the planned 1.2 at the end of the month. That means I'm good for those DIA dates, and I assume Justin_o is as well.
[11:50:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'll respond to the thread and get the discussion going.
[11:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena> is that just going to be a patch-release type thing?
[11:51:35 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: I think you can respond on behalf of all of us since I know Justin's OK with those dates
[11:51:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena: Yep. No new features, just and handful of key fixes requested by our users.
[11:51:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena> neat (smile)
[11:52:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We'll push Infusion 1.2 to coincide with our first Engage release at the end of September.
[11:52:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That way, we won't have to go through our whole release process twice in less than a month.
[11:52:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena: So if you have any bug fix requests, let us know. (smile)
[11:52:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sadly i haven't really gotten time to play lately
[11:52:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but i know a couple others at unicon are using the pager in particular
[11:52:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Seems to me that if you're thinking of upgrading uPortal trunk's version of Infusion, I'd wait until 1.2 when you'll also get a fairly baked version of the mobile stuff.
[11:53:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, Pager is in need of some more love for sure.
[11:53:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We'll put it on the list for 1.2.
[11:53:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll check in w/ them on which versions they're using and whether they have any particular fixes they're watching for
[11:53:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena: That'd be awesome, thanks!
[11:53:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> well, i was sort of thinking i'd update it in part just to get the CSS classname switching out of the way
[11:53:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> oh, yes
[11:53:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sometimes it's easier to do that incrementally
[11:53:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> forgot about that
[11:53:47 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[11:53:51 EDT(-0400)] <athena> so that'd at least get us closer
[11:53:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> not exactly a small upgrade
[11:54:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i'm so sorry we had to go and do that (tongue)
[11:54:02 EDT(-0400)] <athena> definitely looking forward to the baked mobile-ness though (smile)
[11:54:12 EDT(-0400)] <athena> though like cookie dough, it's pretty good raw
[11:54:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[11:54:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Pretty good compliment. ^
[11:54:27 EDT(-0400)] <athena> (smile)
[11:54:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena> is it going to start looking like those wireframes at some point?
[11:54:51 EDT(-0400)] <athena> bc those are really pretty
[11:55:15 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> (smile)
[11:55:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena> colinclark: it's interesting - so far at unicon, the pager component seems to be the thing that's really getting people's attention
[11:56:30 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> athena: we're working on the hifi wireframes at the moment, but there are some critical issues standing in the way
[11:56:36 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> should be soon though
[11:56:39 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> brb
[11:56:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> cool (smile)
[11:56:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> we should really fix up the Pager API now - I don't want to cause the pain of future upgrades and API changes
[11:57:20 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sounds like a thing for the 1.2 list (smile)
[11:58:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena: That's really great. I'm glad it's useful for people, and it's gonna be great when it's fully baked.
[11:58:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled: Pager is the biggest driver for the new IoC container in the framework.
[11:59:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So they might, if we're lucky, go hand in hand for 1.2
[11:59:15 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> that would be good
[11:59:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah i'm looking forward to seeing some of those IoC changes and such - i wish i'd been able to follow all that more
[11:59:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think part of the reason working with fluid components seems so attractive is because i do so much spring development and it feels similar
[11:59:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile)
[12:00:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The new IoC will be sort of an interesting variation on the Spring model...
[12:00:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So dependencies well be defined per-context...
[12:00:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena> interesting
[12:00:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Meaning that a particular component can set up multiple configurations for how they'd like their dependencies satisfied.
[12:00:58 EDT(-0400)] * everettz (n=chatzill@69-196-133-28.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #fluid-work
[12:01:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena> that sounds pretty useful
[12:01:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> here's an example of how it might look in action:
[12:01:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid.demands("fluid.pager", "fluid.pager.renderedPageList",
[12:01:29 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ["that.container", "that.events", "that.pagerBar.options", fluid.COMPONENT_OPTIONS, "that.options.strings");
[12:01:41 EDT(-0400)] <athena> interesting
[12:01:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so here you've got a PageList component that is used by the Pager
[12:01:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and it is basically saying "when I'm being used in context of the pager, this is the stuff that I need"
[12:01:57 EDT(-0400)] <athena> so are you setting defaults for components on a global level rather than a per-component-instance level?
[12:02:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, sort of. It's interesting.
[12:02:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Defaults will stay as-is.
[12:02:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But this new fluid.demands(), which we're actually calling something else...
[12:03:06 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> Has anyone in fluid worked on a textbox autocomplete?
[12:03:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is parallel to the defaults, providing only depedency configuration.
[12:04:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fluid.demands() will be called fluid.depends()
[12:04:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: Not really, no.
[12:05:33 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: ok, thanks.
[12:05:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: What do you have in mind?
[12:05:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> colinclark: gotcha, sounds interesting
[12:06:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> michelled worked on some autocomplete way back in the Dojo days, but nothing since then.
[12:07:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> athena: All the gory details are here in case you're curious: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IoC+Speculations
[12:07:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> awesome, i'll add it to my list-of-stuff-to-read (smile)
[12:07:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[12:07:42 EDT(-0400)] * athena is . . . behind on that list
[12:08:24 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: trying to generate ideas for the drupal tags autocomplete. e.g. "apple, orange, grap" in the input field would bring up suggestions for "grap". Talking to becka11y on #dojo too.
[12:10:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yeah, Dojo's autocomplete does have some ARIA built in to it. It's got some pretty monstrously bizarre data binding requirements, but it's probably a good model.
[12:10:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: I vaguely remember Rich Caloggero doing some thinking about ARIA autocomplete.
[12:10:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Check the jQuery-a11y list from back in June.
[12:12:24 EDT(-0400)] <everettz> colinclark: yep, read what he did, also found autocomplete.html - jquery-ui http://code.google.com/p/jquery-ui/source/browse/branches/dev/autocomplete/tests/static/autocomplete/autocomplete.html?spec=svn2428&amp;r=2428
[12:13:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> everettz: Right, this is one of the static HTML mockups that the Filament Group put together for future components in jQuery UI.
[12:17:41 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined #fluid-work
[12:29:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yura: hey, I just got an email from Jason Eppink at MMI with sample data!
[13:05:17 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: are you there?
[13:06:20 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: yep. I have a patch for FLUID-3011. I attached to the jira. Have been meaning to sent note to list.
[13:06:32 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I saw it (smile)
[13:06:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> good tests!
[13:06:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (smile) (smile)
[13:06:52 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I haven't tried out the patch but I had a couple of questions from reading it
[13:07:12 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> why did you decide to switch from an anchor to a div?
[13:07:25 EDT(-0400)] * michelled thinks alisonbenjamin already told her this before but can't remember the answer
[13:08:03 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: i did that? lemme check. that doens't make any sense.
[13:08:33 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: brain error
[13:08:41 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> lol
[13:09:37 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: there are several places in this patch which seem to be spacing or tabbing changes - it makes it a little hard to read. can you remove those on the next patch you create?
[13:09:50 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: no, bad error. you can't even put a tabindex in a div tag.
[13:11:15 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: re: spaces i was wondering about that. so in addition to putting that anchor back in, i'll delete the spaces out of fluid-3011.txt
[13:11:55 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> you can do a compare with base revision in aptana and revert the lines you didn't mean to change
[13:15:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: while you're at it, I'd remove the "options = {
[13:15:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> + orientation: 'horizontal',
[13:15:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> + };
[13:15:36 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> " from the "ARIA Min and Max with default options" test.
[13:15:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> unless there's a reason you can't, I'd do that test with all default options.
[13:16:21 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: i see what you mean. ok.
[13:16:46 EDT(-0400)] * Justin_o (n=Justin@142.150.154.171) has joined #fluid-work
[13:17:27 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> this is a good fix alisonbenjamin, the jQuery UI folks are going to be happy. it's always nice to get good tests along with good fixes (smile)
[13:20:24 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: well tests aren't so scary anymore, quite the opposite. but there's more questions I have, for example jquery ui slider implementers will still have to specify the aria-valuetext. i'm not sure how to bake that one in. also: the anchor issue. i think a tabindex = 0 would be fine as a solution, but still don't know the logic for why it's there in the first place. hope that makes sense.
[13:22:30 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> what should the valuetext be? also, can you refresh my memory on the anchor problem?
[13:31:15 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#aria-valuetext - human readible text equivalent of aria-valuenow.
[13:35:02 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: the anchor problem - a href="#" anchor on the handle will cause JAWS to read the URL of your page. The suspicion we had was that it's added to the handle to make it keyboard-focusable, but you suggested we check back w/ jquery to see what the logic was.
[13:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> colinclark, michelled: do you think jQuery.closest() replaces fluid.findAncestor() ?
[13:58:08 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> http://docs.jquery.com/Traversing/closest
[13:58:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> fj4000: Sounds like it might... perhaps you can compare the implementations and see?
[13:58:48 EDT(-0400)] <fj4000> will do
[14:10:54 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: sorry, I was on a call. This is an interesting line from the ARIA spec: "The aria-valuetext should only be set by authors when the rendered slider value cannot be completely represented in the form of a number. "
[14:13:52 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> michelled: are you around.. i can't seem to see you at all on my IM any more
[14:14:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I'm around
[14:14:28 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> I was going to ask you for some help about this upcoming infusion release
[14:14:40 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> sure - what do you need
[14:16:46 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so we are looking to do a 1.1.1 release that will be pretty much just bug fixes
[14:17:20 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: i think i misunderstand what valuetext really does. originally i thought valuetext simply gives meaning to the valuenow. e.g. a valuenow is 3, but valuetext indicates that's actually "3 percent", or "3pt font".
[14:17:43 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> would you be able to determine what has changed in trunk since 1.1 was released and what of that should be put into a 1.1.1 release... we'll probably be making a branch off of 1.1 and merging back into it all the bug fixes
[14:18:06 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> yes, I'll do that and send my recommendations to the list
[14:18:14 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> thanks
[14:18:23 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> np
[14:23:20 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> alisonbenjamin: is it an interesting problem. for instance in the color picker example http://jqueryui.com/demos/slider/#colorpicker what would we want the screen reader (or other AT) to say when a slider if moved
[14:23:39 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> is moved
[14:27:25 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: yes - the rgb value i suppose. but, "wow, the sky is a beautiful (0,0,255) today".
[14:27:47 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> lol
[14:30:30 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: a widget can only include so much meaning. some of making a page meaningful is up to the implementer.
[14:31:01 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> for sure
[14:37:17 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: so i think my question is, what happens when you have a value that can be wholly represented as a number, but also requires some meaningful explanation (e.g "degress celcius" or %) beyond that number. where does that get encoded, and is there a generalizable solution for solving that problem, so that implementers can take a widget and customize it to denote that meaning. it seems that it's this sort of question http://www.filamentgr
[14:40:38 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelle: brb
[14:50:26 EDT(-0400)] * jessm (n=Jess@c-71-232-1-65.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[15:10:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> yura, colinclark: I was just looking at the latest patch for FLUID-30.54
[15:11:06 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> sorry FLUID-3054
[15:11:58 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> so it looks good... 1) maybe we should have one of the tinyMCE's on the quickstart example use the advanced theme
[15:12:21 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> also, any thoughts on if we should have a default placement for the toolbar in the advanced theme or not
[15:12:56 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> if it is at the bottom, which i believe is the tinymce default. then you can't tab out of the editor, if it is at the top you can't get to the toolbar
[15:13:09 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> or above, using shift-tab
[15:13:32 EDT(-0400)] <Justin_o> any thoughts
[15:15:52 EDT(-0400)] <yura> Justin_o: yes, one advanced theme example is a good idea,
[15:40:40 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: hello
[15:43:45 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> hi alisonbenjamin
[15:44:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I think part of your previous comment got cut off.
[15:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> "it seems that it's this sort of question http://www.filamentgr"
[15:44:24 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: oh. "it seems that it's this sort of question http://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/update_jquery_ui_slider_from_a_select_element_now_with_aria_support/ were trying to address with their plugin."
[15:44:25 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> had you said anything else?
[15:44:45 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: just that.
[15:44:59 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> interesting
[15:45:50 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> michelled: also, valuetext is not something I added to our jquery slider in ui options.
[15:46:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> i think it's reasonable to leave valuetext off and recommend that implementers handle it as necessary
[15:46:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> as for the issue of keyboard focusability of the slider thumb, i was confused, reading back in the logs, why you can't use a div or something other than an achor
[15:46:55 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anchor
[15:47:28 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> I don't think there's any reason a div can't be used
[15:47:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> just give it a tabindex value, and it'll be keyboard focusable.
[15:47:48 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark, michelled: i don't think a div can be used with tabindex
[15:47:52 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> let me check
[15:47:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep, it'll work
[15:48:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> <div tabindex="0">foo</div> will be focusable in everything but Safari 3.x
[15:54:06 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark: will play with that with JAWS
[15:54:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> awesome
[15:58:23 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> colinclark, michelled: div tabindex works fine, will add into patch. wrt to whitespace in my patch, am i looking to avoid instances where there's a "+" in a line & only empty space added.
[16:54:52 EDT(-0400)] * michelled (n=michelle@CPE001310472ade-CM0011aefd3ca8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has left #fluid-work
[16:58:05 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac (n=team@142.150.154.189) has left #fluid-work
[17:58:07 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> wiki and jira going down in 5 minutes