fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-02-28

Owned by Fluid IRC Log Bot
Last updated: Feb 28, 2011Version comment
14 min read

[09:34:56 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o, michelled, it's back, maintenance notice about the move to a newly deployed version of the wiki is forthcoming
[09:38:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: thanks
[09:38:59 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: the wiki should be back up
[09:39:19 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> thanks
[09:56:05 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i'm not going to update the version numbers in the readme, can you include that in your draft for the updated readme
[09:56:18 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> certainly, Justin_o
[09:57:29 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[10:01:05 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac, michelled: just to double check.. the current version is "1.4-SNAPSHOT" ?
[10:01:18 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, that's my understanding
[10:01:38 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks
[10:20:04 CST(-0600)] <golam> Justin_o: I did a search on inline-edit issues and couldn't find any existing jira with "The demo codes are not showing properly for IE6". I will create a new jira.
[10:21:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> golam: check with anastasiac
[10:21:09 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i think she filed one
[10:21:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jameswy, I see that jamon's wiki shutdown coincides with your UI Options walkthrough at 2pm. I wonder if you might want to suggest that people load up with wiki page in advance?
[10:22:01 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> anastasiac: Chatted with him about it already, (smile) – going to be using the alpha instance of the new wiki for the walkthrough.
[10:22:06 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Thanks for noticing though! (big grin)
[10:22:24 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, golam: I remember the demo code not showing, but it wasn't for IE6 specifically; it also wouldn't have been filed under inline-edit, but probably "demos" since it affected all demos. I'll have a look...
[10:23:30 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, anastasiac, michelled: So i think I have the version numbers updated.. did anyone one want to review it or should i just push it in.
[10:23:37 CST(-0600)] <golam> anastasiac: that make sense I only did search on inline edit. I will do another search. thanks
[10:24:13 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> golam, does this cover it? http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3948
[10:24:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Did you get the version number in the Gallery's Maven build?
[10:24:39 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac, Justin_o: I chatted with jessm about the readme and she made a really good point about the expectations of a community member when they see a readme. perhaps it would actually be better to point to the roadmap instead of copying the points from the roadmap. also, that way we can just change one place if the plan changes mid release cycle
[10:27:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: not yet.. that's another commit.. different repo too
[10:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> so i'll do that one after
[10:27:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, no problem
[10:32:49 CST(-0600)] <golam> anastasiac: that is perfect and it's also happening on IE7. I will update the jira.
[10:46:13 CST(-0600)] <golam> I will give my update here, updating/creating jira's with the issues that I found during my tests from last week.
[10:47:55 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, michelled mentioned your point that the readme should reference the roadmap and not duplicate its content. Any other suggestions for revamping the readme?
[10:48:57 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: Here's the documentation regarding file type inclusion for the HTML5 file dialog: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/Element/input. The description of the accept attribute is about a quarter way down the page. I think the key point here is this: A valid MIMEΒ type with no extensions
[10:49:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[10:49:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks
[10:49:34 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: we just need to be clear about what we're readme
[10:49:36 CST(-0600)] <jessm> oops
[10:49:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> readme-ing about
[10:50:03 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: e.g. we have a number of different places for downloading – just need to be clear what folks are looking at when they go to github readmes
[10:50:23 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: and i thought that for the current "upstream" that is in progress it might just be helpful to point to the intended work – in the roadmap
[10:50:48 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: here's a bug report on file type inclusion where FF4 currently doesn't support mime type extensions: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=565274. It's noted that this bug won't be fixed for the FF4 release and may not be fixed for the version after that
[10:50:54 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: i'm curious if you have any other ideas for what might be in there? i'm fond of re-using content rather than putting us in a place to change manual content in many places
[10:51:17 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, yes, the readme for a snapshot version should make it clear that the reader is looking at a work in progress
[10:51:39 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> it should also mention where to get the latest stable release: the website
[10:52:07 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> for a github readme, the references to the zip files in the release are a bit inappropriate
[10:52:12 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I'm working on an alternative
[10:52:22 CST(-0600)] <jessm> great
[10:53:02 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> re-use is always good, jessm; the readme can point to other sites a lot. For the actual release, we can tweak it to be more suitable for a stable release.
[10:53:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, thanks for the pointers. I'll appreciate your review once i have a draft
[10:53:51 CST(-0600)] <jessm> will do!
[10:54:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, on the issue of referencing the roadmap: afaik, the most relevant current roadmap is http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Infusion+Roadmap+Draft+1.3.1+-+1.5, but it's name implies otherwise. Someone searching the wiki would likely find http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Infusion+1.3+-+1.5+Roadmap. Any chance we can clean that up?
[10:55:08 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: here's a bug ticket that gives us more background information on how the current HTML5 file type inclusion came about . https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377624
[10:55:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: http://areweprettyyet.com/
[10:55:30 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> should we deprecate the latter, and rename the former?
[10:55:31 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: that has been nagging me since the moment i put "draft" in the name and intended to fix it up – would you be so kind? do you have time for that?
[10:55:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: http://canweshipyet.com/
[10:55:38 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: exactly
[10:55:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's an interesting model for tracking progress on a release, jameswy and Justin_o, both from a UX and bug perspective
[10:55:55 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: where deprecate might mean make it a child of?
[10:55:58 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, happy to - do you want to keep the "older" one
[10:56:04 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: yes
[10:56:13 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: and just rename so it's clear
[10:56:18 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> ok, I'll make it a child, and rename it to something appropriate
[10:56:29 CST(-0600)] <jessm> anastasiac: mil gracias!
[11:01:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: There's a duplicate for our bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636976
[11:02:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Looks like Bolter might fix it, too! (smile)
[11:03:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Let's implement against the spec, and make note of these two links you sent me in a separate bug
[11:03:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's too bad
[11:03:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but such is the way with emerging technology
[11:03:26 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Ok, so we'll keep going as originally planned?
[11:03:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not sure I agree with sickling about how it's not worth the time to implement it
[11:03:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Yep, exactly
[11:03:39 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Yah, I disagree with his point as well
[11:03:59 CST(-0600)] <mlam> It eliminates the entire point of the accept attribute
[11:05:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Nice job with the research, btw, mlam
[11:05:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> This was news to me (smile)
[11:05:58 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thanks. it was news to me too.
[11:06:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: Twitter is abuzz with this today http://mbostock.github.com/d3/
[11:07:41 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> colinclark: wow!!
[11:07:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> We should play around with it for our framework demo
[11:08:00 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> Cripes, they even implemented Voronoi treemaps!
[11:11:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> jameswy: viz nerd!
[11:11:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> (smile)
[11:15:54 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: When would be the best part for you to chat on flash error handling?
[11:16:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Afternoon is best for me, harriswong
[11:16:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> After jameswy's UI Options walkthrough if possible
[11:16:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> is that too late for you?
[11:16:33 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: okay, nope it's fine. thanks!
[11:16:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[11:19:57 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: any objections to me pushing up my version number changes to the infusion and image-gallery repos?
[11:20:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> go for it
[11:43:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: The uploader server isn't loading
[11:43:47 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> http://build.fluidproject.org/sakai-imagegallery2-web/site/AddImages/
[11:43:52 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> any thoughts on why that might be
[11:46:11 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: hmm, will check the log and see?
[11:46:43 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: thanks i just rebuilt it again and it still seems like it isn't loading
[11:47:39 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: says, "Embedded error: Address already in use"
[11:47:52 CST(-0600)] <jamon> meaning the old one didn't shutdown, the new one can't bind the port
[11:48:19 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: oh.. weird.. wonder how that happened
[11:49:54 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: looks like a mismatch between the running jetty's pid and the one that the stop script checks
[11:50:28 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> hmm.. but it's been working for a while, so this was just a random occurence?
[11:51:20 CST(-0600)] <jamon> it's hard to say, what i can do is edit the script to send kill -9 (sigkill) instead of 15 (sighup)
[11:51:30 CST(-0600)] <jamon> er, sigterm
[11:51:52 CST(-0600)] <jamon> in any case, it can be blown away by explicitly sending -9
[11:52:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: hmm.. not sure if that was done for a particular reason, you might want to check with colinclark
[11:52:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: i guess we'll have to schedule some time to clean up all the daily build stuff
[11:52:51 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: yeah
[11:53:06 CST(-0600)] <jamon> but in the meantime, give me 5 and you can trigger a manual build?
[11:53:08 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark, michelled, anastasiac: FLUID-4119 and FLUID-4121 are now closed..
[11:53:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: thanks
[11:57:06 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: try a build now
[12:00:33 CST(-0600)] <jessm> http://build.fluidproject.org/infusion/demos/ can't view demos
[12:00:40 CST(-0600)] <jessm> not sure why
[12:02:46 CST(-0600)] <jamon> jessm: http://build.fluidproject.org/continuum/buildResult.action?projectId=9&amp;projectGroupId=14&amp;projectName=&amp;buildId=684
[12:02:49 CST(-0600)] <jamon> that's why
[12:03:08 CST(-0600)] <jamon> you clicked in the minute that the build server was redeploying
[12:03:23 CST(-0600)] <jessm> jamon: i have great timing (smile)
[12:03:33 CST(-0600)] <jessm> went to the stable 1.3.1 demos and we're working from them
[12:05:42 CST(-0600)] <jamon> Justin_o: i see a build was triggered before jessm was browsing around, seems like it failed, all good?
[12:05:58 CST(-0600)] <jamon> http://build.fluidproject.org/continuum/buildResult.action?projectId=9&amp;projectGroupId=14&amp;projectName=&amp;buildId=678
[12:08:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> jamon: the uploader server is working now, thanks
[12:09:45 CST(-0600)] <jamon> (smile)
[12:40:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac, Justin_o: kasper has created a wiki page on the cspace wiki about using git and github
[12:41:07 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it's got great info on it and I think we probably will want something similar
[12:41:17 CST(-0600)] <michelled> kasper: we might steal your work (wink)
[12:41:24 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> excellent, thanks for the info, michelled - do you have a link?
[12:41:26 CST(-0600)] <michelled> http://wiki.collectionspace.org/display/collectionspace/Experimenting+with+GitHub+for+CollectionSpace
[12:41:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> (assuming kasper doesn't mind)
[12:48:09 CST(-0600)] <kasper> anastasiac: he wont (smile)
[13:02:47 CST(-0600)] <jameswy> fluid-everyone: Ui options walkthrough starting in a minute fyi
[13:40:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> harriswong: I've got a 3 pm meeting today, which I wasn't expecting
[13:40:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm going to take a look at your code now and then we can chat for a few minutes
[13:40:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and I'll be free at 3:30 pm
[13:41:10 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> colinclark: thanks!
[14:11:18 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Hello?
[14:12:19 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Hi!
[14:12:45 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Who is this?
[14:13:42 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> I'm sorry I've never used IRC before. Bear with me...
[14:14:32 CST(-0600)] <mlam> You're in the FLUID project's work channel
[14:14:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Hey johnny!
[14:14:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> abledaccess: How's it going?
[14:18:39 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Then I'm in the right place! First try! No bad!
[14:19:08 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Good, Colon. How are you?
[14:22:34 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> My first question is is inclusivedesign.ca, the way the page is now, considered FSS compliant? Meaning are all the hooks present? I noticed quite a few non fl_* classes present. Why?
[14:23:04 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Oops, sorry, Colin.
[14:23:43 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> I should read before I hit enter.
[14:24:15 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Or return. Whatever...
[14:24:37 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jessm, michelled, Justin_o: I've started a bit of work on updating the README. It's not finished, but I'd love some feedback. This isn't a pull request, just a feedback request (smile) You can see it at https://github.com/acheetham/infusion/tree/FLUID-4120
[14:36:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> abledaccess: Hey, sorry, I was in a meeting...
[14:37:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_ might be the best one to answer your question. She did the markup and styling for it.
[14:37:30 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I imagine she used a blend of FSS and whatever Drupal theme she started with, but I'm not sure
[14:37:44 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey abledaccess let me look
[14:39:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: so a couple things 1) how will this change for the actual release 2) on github people can actually download any tag from the download link
[14:39:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> not sure if that should be mentioned
[14:40:12 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> or if it will replace our need for the Current Working Version package
[14:40:19 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> johnny abledaccess it looks like fss is being used for the columns right now: 2 columns at the top and 3 on the bottom. the non fl- stuff is likely drupal, but we could prob add in more fss. are you working on its template?
[14:41:21 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, good thoughts. We should spell out somewhere (probably in the Release Process docs?) how the page would change for a release. In short, I suspect it will change back to what it looks like for past releases. And yes, we should somehow reference/mention the tag in github. Not quite sure how to mention it yet, and I don't know how to reference it - can you have a link directly to a tag?
[14:43:04 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think so.. try this https://github.com/acheetham/infusion/zipball/infusion-engage-0.3b1
[14:43:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> and this one for a tar ball https://github.com/acheetham/infusion/tarball/infusion-engage-0.3b1
[14:45:51 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> Heidi no. I'm trying to understand FSS to implement it in in a WordPress theme
[14:48:02 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> is there something more complete to look at? the wiki seems to be confusing me somehow
[14:48:29 CST(-0600)] <abledaccess> i can't get my head around it
[14:50:29 CST(-0600)] <harriswong> mlam: hey mike, can you show me how to build the java-based uploader server when you have a minute, thanks!
[14:50:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Yeah, the wiki documentation isn't the best, abledaccess
[14:50:42 CST(-0600)] <mlam> harriswong: for sure, i'll pop by now
[14:50:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think most people tend to learn FSS by example
[14:50:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The demos, some good examples of sites, etc.
[15:18:11 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> abledaccess when i was learning FSS i went the nerdy way and just looked at the css files and picked out what i wanted... and then got the hang of it so i could assume certain classes were present and how best to use them
[15:44:05 CST(-0600)] <michelled> fluid-everyone: I'm going to bulk close some resolved JIRAs so you might get a bunch of JIRA mail
[15:44:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yay
[15:44:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mass JIRA email
[15:44:33 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile)
[16:15:12 CST(-0600)] <athena> colinclark: if you're interested, i finished some analysis of jQM in a portal environment at https://wiki.jasig.org/display/UPC/jQuery+Mobile+and+uPortal
[16:15:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> so far it looks like the trickiest issue is going to be the elision syntax in the fluid renderer
[16:20:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess I'll have to spend some time with jQM soon
[16:20:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Wouldn't it make more sense to run the Renderer first, and then have jQM do its progressive enhancement thing on top of fully-rendered markup?
[16:21:32 CST(-0600)] <athena> not sure - i haven't yet figured out how to selectively call jQM's enhancement engine on select blocks of markup
[16:21:49 CST(-0600)] <athena> jQM runs really early - before document.ready
[16:22:20 CST(-0600)] <athena> so maybe if we turned it's auto-enhancement off, and then figured out how to get it to run on just chunks of markup . . . although honestly i'm not sure it supports that right now
[16:22:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> we hardly ever run the renderer just once - the beauty is in being able to re-bind with new data
[16:23:08 CST(-0600)] <athena> so we'd need to run some sort of jQM task each time we bound new data via the renderer
[16:23:51 CST(-0600)] <athena> jQM is . . . i dunno, it's a whole framework unto itself
[16:24:05 CST(-0600)] <athena> but it seems like a lot of the issues went away when i turned off ajax navigation
[16:24:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ah, interesting
[16:24:23 CST(-0600)] <athena> by the way, do you have any thoughts about phonegap vs. titanium appcelerator?
[16:24:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Those are the parts of jQM I was always most suspicious of
[16:24:37 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, understandably so
[16:24:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ajax navigation and the fact that it was hard-baked in terms of its initialization timing
[16:24:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I just don't quite understand why people write code that is baked this way
[16:24:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[16:25:03 CST(-0600)] <athena> so you can actually turn the initialization off, at least
[16:25:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[16:25:09 CST(-0600)] <athena> i know (sad)
[16:25:16 CST(-0600)] <athena> initialization changes a lot of markup
[16:25:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> As for Phonegap vs. Appcelerator, I don't know
[16:25:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I haven't spent much time with Appcelerator
[16:25:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Phonegap was pretty amateurish in a lot of ways
[16:25:33 CST(-0600)] <athena> it's not just applying CSS classes - it adds new elements, adds in aria roles, etc.
[16:25:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah - phonegap seems awfully broken on android
[16:25:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It has no real "containment" model--you just toss your stuff in with their stuff
[16:26:14 CST(-0600)] <athena> as far as i can tell, the big difference is that phonegap is actually interpreted in real-time, whereas titanium actually compiles the js from the very beginning
[16:26:32 CST(-0600)] <athena> which means that titanium can render native tabs, etc.
[16:26:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Ah, interesting and scary
[16:26:53 CST(-0600)] <athena> dunno
[16:26:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> phonegap might be scarier (smile)
[16:27:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lol
[16:27:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> true that
[16:27:20 CST(-0600)] <athena> the fact that it doesn't complie down to native means that it seems like it can run native-ish stuff against remote web page js
[16:27:28 CST(-0600)] <athena> which could be cool for a use case like uportal
[16:27:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[16:27:38 CST(-0600)] <athena> but super dangerous if a non-controlled page winds up w/ access
[16:27:46 CST(-0600)] <athena> and honestly i'm not so sure apple's going to allow that
[16:28:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Well, that's the thing
[16:28:19 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> The same origin policy will still apply for things you load remotely
[16:28:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> just not for things that run locally, as far as I know
[16:29:19 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah