fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-10-05
[08:28:03 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anastasiac: re: discrepancy between UIO w/ and w/o preview's reset/reset+apply functionality--heidi_ has it right. Initially it was simply "reset" across the board, which would reset the controls to their defaults, but not apply them. This was found to be confusing when some people tested w/ preview, as the reset didn't seem to affect their preview window, so we added a simultaneous "apply" to show its effect.
[08:28:10 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I think you're right though--it's confusing.
[08:28:13 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I find it confusing.
[08:28:39 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> It's on my to-do list.
[08:29:11 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, jameswy
[08:29:37 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> But for now, the inconsistency is only across configurations. A user won't run into both a w/ and w/o preview configuration in the same app, so at least the interaction is currently consistent within whatever they're using.
[08:29:38 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> np
[08:29:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Justin_o: do you see Johnny's email to the work list?
[08:30:09 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> And thanks for confirming my suspicions that it's weird, anastasiac
[08:30:27 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't have an ipad to test, but tried with ipod, the line height seems working fine. can you reproduce the problem? Justin_o
[08:30:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> well, mostly it's just odd when you're looking at both versions, jameswy. michelled made the good point that in integrator will just pick one version, and the site's users won't be comparing them the way we do
[09:20:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: what were your thoughts on this one http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4491 ?
[09:21:07 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: Minimum of critical.
[09:21:50 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I don't think it's an edge case for developers to be setting line height styles, so this could potentially be a very common occurrence.
[09:22:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: yes.. we were just debating that here
[09:22:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> could you comment on the jira about what should happen though
[09:22:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> should it blow away the current setting or add it to that set by the user or something else
[09:23:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: ^^
[09:23:17 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I think we already know what should happen: the line height that the developer set should be multiplied by the user declared configuration.
[09:23:36 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> In other words: it should just work?
[09:24:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: i speculate that em value of line height is based on font-size not on linespacing size
[09:28:25 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: So are we saying it's technically impossible to multiply the line height value if it's set by an implementor?
[09:29:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: i'm sure it's possible, it will probably just mean that we have to try to find all instances where it is set and then manually change them
[09:31:57 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: Then that's the way we'll have to go,
[09:33:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: yes.. but maybe we'll go there for another release
[09:36:11 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Justin_o: Alright, so what's the question here? (or is there one?)
[09:36:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: well you answered them already
[09:38:23 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Ah, good.
[09:42:13 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy right now all the themes use red as the focus colour. this doesn't seem right - suggestions on what colours they should be?
[09:43:03 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: We really haven't thought much about the Fluid style as a whole yet, but I like blue. What do you think?
[09:44:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy right now it's black by default but the by, yb, wb, bw themes use red and they should prob use something within their own scheme?
[09:45:31 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I see what you mean.
[09:46:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy don't know enough about colour blindness to know if this focus would still be visible.
[09:46:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> even if someone prefers the black/yellow scheme
[09:46:33 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I'm wondering if highlights is one area we can break the themes in.
[09:46:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> what do you mean?
[09:48:25 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> I mean, the current themes were designed for people who needed additional contrast for better visibility--not colour blindness. With colour blindness you can still differentiate between shades, just not certain hues.
[09:49:54 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> So I'm wondering if it might be alright to use a third colour for highlight in a two-colour contrast theme. As a highlight, it'd only appear sparingly, and draw attention to a single region of the screen (which is exactly what we want).
[09:49:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> right ya
[09:50:08 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> agreed, i think that works
[09:50:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> so is red okay for 1.4 or should we change it while i'm working on a blocker fix
[09:51:14 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> Red's pretty close to yellow on the spectrum, which might not be good for a contrast theme. Let's try using blue throughout for the contrast themes.
[09:51:31 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> And then we'll let users decide whether we botched it bad,
[09:51:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy sounds good can you give me the colour code
[09:53:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o i think ariaTabs.js adds tabindex to the tabpanel div
[09:53:35 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I'm semi-arbitrarily drawing one out of the hat here, but let's do #00AAFF for now? Tell me what you think once you've tried it out.
[09:54:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy werd up - wasn't there some website that measured contrast between schemes or something?
[09:56:47 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: A bunch, to test for WCAG compliance, yes.
[09:57:25 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> But as I recall, WCAG contrast compliance applies to text.
[09:57:43 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> (and not focus highlights)
[09:57:58 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> i.e., contrast for readability, not recognizability
[10:00:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy gotcha. okay we'll try this and see what happens
[10:38:08 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> fluid-everyone: Is anyone in Connect? I hear and see nada.
[10:39:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> we see you but yr frozen jameswy
[11:10:37 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o it appears tabindex on the tabpanel div helps with modes in jaws: "this causes both JAWS 11 and NVDA 2010.1 to automatically exit Application Mode and permit the use of the screen readerβs normal reading commands for accessing the tabpanel content. So this is one way to help users of these two ARIA-supporting screen readers more easily find their way from tab control to content."
[11:11:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy i think you might've had a jira for this ... how in fat panel the div around the tab panel's contents is focussed
[11:11:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> now that we have focus styling going... it's really distracting... but not sure we can ditch it for above reasons.
[11:13:45 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: I vaguely recall it. You mean the panel itself is highlighted?
[11:14:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy yep it's the first thing to focus before getting to the indiv controls
[11:14:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and it focuses when you use a mouse for any of the controls.... kind of distracting/ugly
[11:14:44 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Can we skip focus on it? Go from tab to first control label?
[11:15:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy ariaTabs automatically adds a tabindex to the panel div
[11:15:41 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> and i think it's important because of what i said above about jaws and switching modes? that would be my inclination otherwise (remove tabindex from the panel div)
[11:21:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> but jameswy i don't think yr gonna like the way it looks now that focus styling is visible
[11:23:35 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: In the fatty mockups here, you can see a slight blue highlight border on the top around the panel
[11:23:36 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/User+interface+options%2C+Infusion+1.4%2C+draft+1+mockups
[11:23:47 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> It doesn't look all that bad.
[11:24:07 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> What if we completed it and extended it around the entire panel?
[11:24:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy yeah maybe that's the best way... make the div fit in better.
[11:25:05 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> right now it's a rectangle within the visual panel and doesn't look right
[11:25:32 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Right, because it dissociates the content from the tab, when they're all supposed to be the same panel
[11:25:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jameswy can i skype you and show you how it is now?
[11:26:08 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> heidi_: Go for it
[12:50:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: I've merged in heidi's pull request for FLUID-4504, I think that leaves us with just one blocker left
[13:32:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> fyi Justin_o jameswy here's the tab panel focus jira i just made http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-4506 - to fix or not to fix? i'm guessing we'll have to wait
[13:32:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> testing resumed yet?
[13:33:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> if not i'll send a pull req for it
[13:37:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i don't think testing has resumed yet
[13:37:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: Dev meeting
[13:37:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I think we can just do something quick in the channel today
[13:37:56 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: michelled had some thoughts on dev meeting today...
[13:39:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> think m is c-spacing
[13:41:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so while we're waiting, i think we only have one blocker left at the moment
[13:41:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> FLUID-4500
[13:41:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: i guess we can also talk about FLUID-4506 if you like
[13:41:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: did you want to make a case for that
[13:41:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o i don't think it's a blocker
[13:41:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> was just gonna sneak it in before testing resumes if i can
[13:42:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: ah okay.. i think cindyli has a pull request in already so i'm not sure how much time there will be for sneaking it in
[13:42:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> right now the div around the controls in fat panel is focusable... ariaTabs sets a tabindex on it
[13:42:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> what did you have to do for that by the way
[13:43:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o okay cool. i'm not sure yet. i think it's tolerable for now... see what ppl say when testing?
[13:43:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: okay
[13:44:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> fluid-everyone: anyone else have anything they want to talk about during this meeting?
[13:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> cindyli, anastasiac, michelled, jameswy, bosmon, jhung1, heidi_ ?
[13:45:01 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't have anything to talk about
[13:45:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> justin_o: Plugging away at Decapod designs and Nigeria admin.
[13:45:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung1: thanks
[13:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay, well if no one has anything else, i think we can cut this one short
[13:46:18 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I'm good Justin_o - all I was saying to anastasiac earlier was that we should think about doing the in person dev meetings again but not as status based
[13:46:40 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I think they've been very successful when we had topics to discuss
[13:47:05 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I think the status updates are perfect for the channel
[13:47:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: i agree.. i think we've been too heads down with the release lately
[13:49:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> maybe we can discuss the books johnny brought in sometime
[13:50:00 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Bosmon: will you be able to review cindyli's patch please?
[13:50:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: we've pretty much wrapped up dev meeting, did you have anything you wanted to talk about
[13:50:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> michelled - yes, I will do that now
[13:50:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: that's a good idea.. i'd also like to start doing html5 and css3 stuff
[13:51:45 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: wanna pick a topic for next week and we can come prepared?
[13:53:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: how about to start we talk about the new tags in HTML5
[13:54:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> that sounds like a good idea Justin_o
[13:54:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: great, now i just have to remember
[14:07:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi cindyli (spaces from CATTT)
[14:07:14 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> lol
[14:07:16 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> hi, Bosmon
[14:07:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Patch looks great, I have reviewed and pushed
[14:07:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> fluid-everyone, I believe this makes UIO open for testing again
[14:07:27 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> cool CATTTT
[14:07:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon, has the server been re-built and re-deployed?
[14:08:06 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> anastasiac - it hasn't
[14:08:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I don't know how to do that
[14:08:24 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, so hold off on testing, fluid-everyone. I'll restart the build
[14:15:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey cindyli and Bosmon, thanks so much for all your hard word getting these UIO bugs squashed
[14:15:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> especially you, cindyli
[14:15:27 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> not a problem. anytime
[14:35:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> fluid-everyone, the build is redeployed - let the testing begin again!