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fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-03-29

fluid-work IRC Logs-2010-03-29

Mar 29, 2010

[15:23:03 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> jhung: ok, try updating again
[15:23:16 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> tmbdev: are you there?
[15:24:28 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled1: it's looking fine now.
[15:26:03 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> so the rotate flag for decapod-stitching does in fact to something but I'm not quite sure how to use it
[15:26:22 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> I'll have to check in with Thomas at some point
[15:28:02 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> jhung: anything you want me to work on in particular or should I continue my hand off documentation?
[15:28:35 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> michelled1: I can really use help with writing up the test cases.
[15:28:53 EDT(-0400)] <michelled1> wanna skype real quick?
[15:29:02 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Sure
[16:05:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena> is it possible to use the fluid renderer and the inline editor together?
[16:05:39 EDT(-0400)] <athena> my initial tests seem to indicate that it's all ok until you re-render the data, at which point weirdness begins to occur
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[08:24:41 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'This channel is logged – for details see: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IRC+Channel' set by jessm on 2009-11-04 08:30:00 EST(-0500)
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[09:03:16 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'This channel is logged – for details see: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IRC+Channel' set by jessm on 2009-11-04 08:30:00 EST(-0500)
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[10:01:17 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jamon: the Ideum quote from jameswy – can that go into Alfresco?
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[10:01:40 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> jessm: yep
[10:01:48 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> cool
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[10:23:08 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: ping?
[10:23:37 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> jessm: yup.
[10:24:02 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> jhung: where are we this a.m. wrt Decapod and should we chat?
[10:24:19 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> I
[10:24:31 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> Yes. I think we should chat quickly.
[10:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> let me grab a headset.
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[10:42:15 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: welcome back!
[10:42:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark>
[10:42:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> thanks, boss
[10:50:57 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Hey, has anyone else noticed that we haven't been getting 24-hr updates from our wiki?
[10:51:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Seems like it's been quite awhile since I've seen one.
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[10:55:00 EDT(-0400)] <jhung> The updates have been broken since Mar 3rd it seems. The Wiki front page hasn't updated since then.
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[10:58:54 EDT(-0400)] <thomas____> I dived into the Infusion source at the weekend ... it blew my mind, I'll need to read more on the wiki
[10:59:56 EDT(-0400)] <thomas____> I like the work that's gone into incorporating aria
[11:00:43 EDT(-0400)] <thomas____> especially as part of the reorderer
[11:05:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> thomas____: Glad you like it
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[11:22:20 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> Hi
[11:22:22 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> I am here now
[11:22:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> If we are due to start talking over the jQuery upgrade issues - colinclark, justin_o
[11:23:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon7: Stand up is in seven minutes
[11:24:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is it something we can tackle in that time?
[11:24:36 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> If anyone is interested... there is a jira pertaining to this FLUID-3527 and a branch by the same name
[11:24:37 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> i can restart the wiki if no one is using it at the moment for email updates? colinclark?
[11:25:18 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3527
[11:25:24 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/branches/FLUID-3527/
[11:25:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jamon: Maybe best at the end of day, just to be safe?
[11:25:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I imagine people are busy with it at the moment
[11:25:57 EDT(-0400)] <jamon> k
[11:28:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> Wow.... these timezone changes are just wacky
[11:42:09 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> Bosmon7: why couldn't it all happen on the same day?!
[11:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <michelled> justin_o: can I get you to take a quick peek at this? http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Decapod+0.3+Test+-+Capturing+Images
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[11:56:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> jessm: No, I meant my timezone changes
[11:56:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon7> Having standup at the end of the day is just puzzling....
[11:58:02 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> ah
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[12:42:15 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> Bosmon8: how should we should we look into the jquery upgrade for engage
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[12:44:35 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I think we can be relatively confident there will be no major issues
[12:45:02 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> The problems in infusion were generally deep in framework code, where they should be
[12:53:12 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> Bosmon8: that's good.. so you think we should just merge and then fix any problems that appear
[12:53:38 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i suppose for sure the my collection page will brake because of the use of the jquery dialog
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[13:15:38 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: hi
[13:15:49 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> hello
[13:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: ^
[13:23:13 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: hey. I'm knocking "incorporate WCAG into QA test plan" jiras off my list. I was hoping we could touch base tomorrow? & look at what I've done
[13:24:09 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: sure
[13:24:11 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> sounds good
[13:24:42 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: is there a time that works for you?
[13:24:58 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: hmm... not sure...
[13:25:29 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i don't have any meetings or anything planned yet, so i guess anytime should be okay
[13:35:35 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: thanks
[13:36:13 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: i will be there in the afternoon. would 2 work?
[13:36:28 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: should be okay
[13:37:03 EDT(-0400)] <alisonbenjamin> justin_o: ok thanks see you then
[13:37:15 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> alisonbenjamin: np, see you then
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[13:47:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: you have added one
[13:48:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> you aren't multiplying, just incrementing
[13:48:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> the Bosmon counter
[13:48:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon++?
[13:48:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok, I'll be quiet now
[13:48:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: how's it going with the jquery upgrade
[13:48:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> things we should talk about here?
[13:49:12 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Hi
[13:49:41 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: looks like it is going well now... Bosmon8 was able to fix the big remaining issues this morning... i've updated the dependency files and yura and I just did some testing with the infusionAll.js file and they seem to be fine
[13:49:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> that's awesome!
[13:49:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: Nice work, dude
[13:50:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I wanted to talk about a release schedule, unless there are specific tech questions we should talk about first?
[13:51:06 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: we will have to merge into trunk and then make sure engage is all working.. that and updating readmes and maybe writing some wiki docs for any changes is all that is left for this...
[13:51:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[13:51:19 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> there may be a question about backwards compatibility but that's all
[13:51:19 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is always scheming
[13:51:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So here is my latest scheme...
[13:51:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm wondering if we have an opportunity to do a quick release
[13:51:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And have it cost us very little in terms of our Infusion 1.2 schedule
[13:52:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So the idea would be a jQuery-only Infusion 1.1.3 release
[13:52:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We go through a full QA cycle on it, and get it out the door as soon as we can.
[13:52:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And then, perhaps Infusion 1.2 will actually be easier
[13:52:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In that it largely contains a "mobile package"
[13:52:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So then perhaps we could do a full test of the new stuff for 1.2, along with a quick re-test of the things we've just tested for Infusion 1.1.3
[13:52:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: Does this sound insane?
[13:55:04 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: I think it would probably be quicker to do then at the same time.. is there a need to get infusion out earlier
[13:57:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Well, I think there's a question of responsiveness.
[13:57:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I know that people are keen to use jQuery 1.4.x, since it's been out for awhile.
[13:58:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Priority number one is stability
[13:58:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So we held off on any upgrades for until now for two reasons:
[13:58:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. jQuery usually requires a point release or two before stabilizing
[13:58:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. jQuery UI 1.8 was still under development
[13:59:08 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So now that 1.8 is stable and released, it seems like a good time to follow very closely and get Infusion out
[13:59:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: You have a lot of influence in this decision
[13:59:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But my personal feeling is that we should get something out by the end of the week if we can do it.
[14:03:03 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: so i guess there is a couple of things... 1) not sure how much has changed in the trunk since 1.1.2 so this may need to be a 1.2 release. 2) Also when do we need to have the other stuff planned for moving into infusion released
[14:04:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: tell me more
[14:05:29 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: so i guess with point 1... it wouldn't save us any time to do a release off of the 1.1.x line if there were lots of changes in trunk.. we would have to do all the tests again
[14:05:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: And we're pretty sure there are some substantial changes
[14:06:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Given that we did things like trim the size of many files, fix a number of Renderer bugs, etc.
[14:06:07 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: not too sure... can't quite remember what has gone in there... so i'll have to take a look at that
[14:06:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: I
[14:06:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm pretty sure it's substantial
[14:06:36 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i'm guessing mFSS would be the thing that comes to mind.. but that is probably self contained enough that it would be okay
[14:08:44 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: okay... so maybe we should just do a 1.2 release now and then do either a 1.2.1 for the mobile stuff or a 1.3
[14:08:58 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i guess it sort of depends on what from engage we want to move up into infusion asap
[14:09:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[14:09:05 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> and in what state
[14:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> so you're thinking the cheapest route is to ship what's in trunk asap
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[14:09:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and then fill it in with Nav List, Cabinet, and Screen Navigator, along with the latest and greatest mFSS after?
[14:09:46 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> i think the mFSS is already in trunk
[14:10:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> justin_o: The newest stuff?
[14:14:27 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: yes... mFSS lives in fss in the turnk
[14:14:39 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Ok, so I see three scenarios we have to explore:
[14:14:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 1. An Infusion 1.1.3 release with just the jQuery upgrade
[14:15:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. An Infusion 1.2 release that contains everything in trunk--so basically, all the new stuff except Nav List, Screen Navigator, and Cabinet
[14:15:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. The whole shebang
[14:15:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Anything in between?
[14:15:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: you might want to keep half an eye on our discussion here
[14:15:46 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> colinclark: i think that was it
[14:15:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ok
[14:15:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> let's see then
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[14:18:54 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: oh, i am – 1/2_eye_Jess
[14:19:02 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> or .5_i_Jess
[14:19:34 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> so, justin_o colinclark what is gonna highlight one option or another? how do we decide?
[14:21:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm: We're just doing a bit of real-world whiteboarding
[14:21:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> to decide exactly this
[14:21:29 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> colinclark: roger that – has anyone mentioned the KISS principle in your convo yet
[14:21:56 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> blarg
[14:22:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> blarg?
[14:22:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> jessm:
[14:22:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Principles....
[14:22:48 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> You know how dangerous those are
[14:22:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[14:22:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> like AXIOMS
[14:23:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Yeah
[14:23:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> almost exactly like those
[14:24:16 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I was chatting to THE KING on Friday that we really want to do something proper with createRendererFunction
[14:24:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I don't think it would be too hard
[14:24:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> It is absolutely silly to have to have "backed out" some Engage code into hand-rolled cutpoints again just because we didn't have the utility available
[14:25:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: Yeah, I wanted to chat about that
[14:25:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I feel a bit worried about us getting it right before unleashing it on the world
[14:25:58 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yet we have undoubtedly benefitted from it already
[14:26:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> gimme a couple of minutes, then let's discuss your idea in depth here
[14:28:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/10000/8000/200/18219/18219.strip.gif
[14:28:30 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> "STATE YOUR IDEA NOW"!
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[15:21:40 EDT(-0400)] <justin_o> Bosmon8: colinclark will update you... i'll avoid the large hammer
[15:23:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark>
[15:32:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Anyone here?
[15:33:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> sorry
[15:33:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> super distracted
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[16:06:28 EDT(-0400)] <EverettZ> colinclark: hey, do you have a sec?
[16:06:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> EverettZ: On the phone at the moment, but I should have a sec soon
[16:07:11 EDT(-0400)] <EverettZ> colinclark: ok
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[16:19:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Okay, Bosmon8
[16:19:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> are you still around?
[16:20:24 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Yes
[16:20:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I am still around
[16:20:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So sorry for such a distracted day
[16:20:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but I have time now
[16:20:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> ok
[16:21:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> First, I hear that you squashed all our jQuery-related bugs
[16:21:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Thanks so much
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[16:21:37 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Well, I had introduced all of them in the first place
[16:21:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[16:21:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> it's the least I could do
[16:22:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So justin_o and I talked for awhile today
[16:23:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We had those three scenarios for a release
[16:23:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Just cut a 1.1.3 release with the jQuery upgrades
[16:23:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 2. Cut a "whatever's in trunk" release
[16:23:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> 3. Ship everything in trunk plus the new mobile components
[16:24:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We did some of the math, and it looks like we can do #2 quite quickly, followed by a release in late April with the mobile components.
[16:24:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Hum
[16:25:04 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Aren't 1 and 2 practically the same?
[16:25:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> no
[16:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I presume by "whatever's in trunk" you mean "whatever's in trunk now"?
[16:25:19 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> We released 1.1.2 quite awhile ago...
[16:25:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Oh
[16:25:31 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I did a full diff between 1.1.2 and trunk, and they're quite different
[16:25:32 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> You mean JUST the jQuery upgrades?
[16:25:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> as you well know
[16:25:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: Yes
[16:25:40 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> We would just backport my fixes from the branch....
[16:25:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think we need to get these out very quickly
[16:25:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yeah
[16:25:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> but I think it's smarter to do trunk
[16:25:57 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> ok
[16:26:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> There's lots of good stuff in there, all of which is pretty much ready to go
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[16:27:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I guess justin_o knows the scoop best
[16:27:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But we probably can merge our jQuery upgrade branch into trunk
[16:27:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> and finish up the last fixes before freezing and QAing
[16:27:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> we'll have to update Engage as well, perhaps as a quick b4 release
[16:28:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So Bosmon8, I guess I'm most interested in chatting about createRendererFunction() and the pseudo components stuff
[16:29:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> which would be slotted into a 1.3 release
[16:29:45 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> ok
[16:30:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But are there other things you want to chat about now?
[16:30:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Primarily that, for now...
[16:30:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I need to review the latest work on Cabinet &c
[16:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> But most of that is fairly routine, I think
[16:30:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, yes
[16:30:43 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> We decided, at length, that this component needs a MODEL
[16:31:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> +1 for that
[16:31:06 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8>
[16:31:19 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Surely this idea should be debated on its own merits
[16:31:34 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> It's not as if, after all, we have a commitment to.... AXIOMS
[16:32:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> lol
[16:32:20 EDT(-0400)] <jessm> just principles
[16:32:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> !!!
[16:32:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> WakinG CATT!
[16:32:40 EDT(-0400)] <jessm>
[16:33:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So, Bosmon8, I need to catch up on the JIRA you commented on regarding createRendererFunction() etc.
[16:33:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I will do that now
[16:34:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But I think we could probably harmonize this stuff with the DOM Binder as we had discussed
[16:34:11 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I guess the "open end" of the debate is "exactly how much" "render" should be "like a subcomponent"
[16:34:23 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: Ah, interesting
[16:34:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> tell me more
[16:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I think a new record of 4 quoted items in a 17 words
[16:34:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "i'm very impressed"
[16:34:54 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> hahahahahahaha
[16:35:09 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Anyway, yes... I sketched out a block of "putative configuration"
[16:35:44 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I was thinking that, like "events/selectors" etc. this would become a new standard top-level thing
[16:35:54 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> the render() function?
[16:35:55 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> yes
[16:35:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> or will it be a Thing?
[16:35:58 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Well
[16:36:01 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> i think it might be both
[16:36:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> like the DOM Binder
[16:36:18 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> We have already showed our disgraceful colours in a few places, by making functions which have properties hanging off them
[16:36:25 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I see no reason to discontinue this practice
[16:36:38 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> So, another interesting "open end" to the debate is the relationship with "refreshView"
[16:36:51 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I guess part of that debate only happened in my mind as we were walking home from the cafe
[16:37:13 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> So, the last thing I mentioned to the KING on Friday was that there is a clear, stereotypical relationship between render() and refreshView
[16:37:26 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> but clearly, that "top-level refreshView" itself needs to be "open for extension"
[16:37:42 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> To borrow a phrase from the confused, stumbling "object-oriented" camp [16:38:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Bosmon8: yes, this all makes sense so far [16:38:59 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> So, I was imagining that what might happen could be, that the "render" "subcomponent", as well as directly being invokable as a function, would expose various other "helpful properties" [16:39:14 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> such as? [16:39:23 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> One of which might be a bare-bones refreshView function that could either be assigned directly to the top-level one, or invoked by a custom one at some point within its lifecycle [16:40:39 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> I guess we could argue that this thing "itself" is really outside the responsibilities of a thing called a "render function" [16:40:53 EDT(-0400)] <Bosmon8> Perhaps it should just be a separate, configurable "component" [16:41:57 EDT(-0400)]