fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-01-17

[09:52:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: This issue was in amidst the issues you sent along to me. I think it's fixed, but perhaps you're the best person to resolve it: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3831
[09:53:40 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> (smile) i just closed it
[09:53:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> wicked
[09:53:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> How about the other Pager one filed by Jen?
[09:53:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> FLUID-3916
[09:54:34 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I'm pretty sure that's really an issue.. but has to do with the input caching in IE that is also affecting the inlineEdit textfield
[09:54:44 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> oops
[09:54:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> wrong jira
[09:54:47 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Looks like all the others in the list probably need to be quickly triaged and punted to a future revision
[09:55:15 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> but yes, that issue still exists.. verified it with Golam this morning
[09:55:24 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> and i'm working on the triage and punting now
[09:55:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: Is FLUID-3699 an issue you're working on?
[09:56:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's the one you sent me a patch for, right?
[09:56:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes, i'm just testing some more, but i have it fixed now
[09:56:16 CST(-0600)] <mlam> yes
[09:56:21 CST(-0600)] <mlam> thanks for all the pointers last night
[09:56:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you want to assign it to yourself whenever you get a chance?
[09:56:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No problem. Glad it was helpful
[09:56:33 CST(-0600)] <mlam> ok, i can do that now
[09:56:51 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark can we chat about uploader markup when yr free?
[09:57:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[09:57:06 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i got it working but i think it'll require an addition to the api
[09:57:14 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> to specify the new scrollable area
[09:57:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh, okay
[09:57:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> lay it on me
[09:57:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> wanna skype?
[09:58:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'll need a few minutes, in that case
[09:58:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> okay,, just think it'll be easier to screen share
[09:58:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[10:02:22 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I'm tempted to close this issue: http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-1831
[10:02:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's pretty vague and we never really heard back with any more details
[10:02:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and it's probably based on an old version of JAWS, etc.
[10:03:37 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i'm guessing he's referring to table navigation with Jaws
[10:03:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: ^
[10:04:02 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> and yes.. based on Jaws 9
[10:04:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> interesting
[10:04:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess it's something we'll need to think about further at some point
[10:04:46 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Although to some extent I imagine it's moot, given the recent ARIA work we've done on the component
[10:05:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> right... and i guess we're in the process of removing the table markup
[10:05:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Only parts of it
[10:06:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we've argued that it is indeed tabular data, which I think makes sense
[10:06:53 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay, for the file queue right?
[10:06:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yes
[10:07:10 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: We've moved the affects version for this one forward for a long time, but I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it. Is it familiar to you? Justin_o: We've moved the affects version
[10:07:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oops
[10:07:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cut and paste (tongue)
[10:07:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sort of a recursive sentence
[10:07:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-2846
[10:08:46 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> (smile) i'll take a look
[10:11:18 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: so i could be wrong but i believe this is because the image gallery takes you to that intermediate page where you can fill in details about the images
[10:11:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ah
[10:11:36 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> if you click the browse button before this page opens it causes problems
[10:11:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not terribly motivated to fix weirdness in the Image Gallery
[10:11:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> That seems about right
[10:14:44 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark basically there is now a div outside of the table that is scrollable - i need a var to define the selector for this in uploader.js as it's no longer that.container
[10:15:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, that makes sense
[10:15:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> i'm ready if you'd rather skype
[10:15:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> up to you
[10:15:22 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sure, ill show ya quick
[10:21:11 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: patch posted for FLUID-3699
[10:29:16 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2, anastasiac, colinclark : do you know if this issue was fully addressed for 1.3
[10:29:17 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-3487
[10:48:58 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o: fluid.deadMansBlur is now defined in the framework, in FluidView.js. It isn't defined in InlineEdit any more, so yes: I'd say this issue was fixed for 1.3
[10:50:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thank you
[10:51:29 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, I'd suggest that Bosmon2 might want to file a new jira for the issues he feels still remain (based on his comments on the JIRA)
[10:51:49 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> if there still are any...
[10:51:50 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: makes sense
[11:21:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: how does this look?
[11:21:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Fluid Infusion vX.X.X
[11:21:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> copyright: https://source.fluidproject.org/svn/fluid/infusion/
[11:21:07 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> license: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Fluid+Licensing
[11:21:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> for the perma commment text.
[11:25:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> For more information about copyright, see the individual Infusion source code files: <link>
[11:25:58 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Infusion is distributed under the Educational Community License 2.0 and new BSD licenses: <link>
[11:26:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I know we need to be careful about character counts
[11:26:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Do you think this is too verbose?
[11:26:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: ^
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I think it's good.. i made a minor change to the copyright one.. how does this look now
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Fluid Infusion vX.X.X
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> Infusion is distributed under the Educational Community License 2.0 and new BSD licenses:
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> <link>
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> For information on copyright, see the individual Infusion source code files:
[11:27:23 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> <link>
[11:27:37 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> sounds great
[11:27:51 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> okay... thanks.. i think i'll just make a commit with that after lunch
[12:42:09 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> mlam: I like your FLUID-3699
[12:42:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> patch
[12:42:17 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Couple of tiny suggestions:
[12:42:31 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. I might just name your new function enableRows()
[12:42:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. To go with the new name, I think I'd also just take the rows to enable/disable, rather than the whole that
[12:42:57 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so it'd be:
[12:43:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> enableRows(rows, state)
[12:43:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And, rather than walking through each of the files in the model and getting the row element for, it you should be able to grab the rows directly
[12:43:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so you'd invoke your function like this:
[12:44:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> enableRows(that.locate("fileRows"), true);
[12:45:29 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Ohh I see. I'll make the changes and re-post the patch.
[12:45:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> cool
[12:46:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> All of these awkward distinctions between rows and the actual model will be fixed when I renderize the Uploader
[12:46:29 CST(-0600)] <mlam> Ok
[12:56:41 CST(-0600)] <mlam> colinclark: I've re-posted the patch for FLUID-3699
[12:57:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks
[12:59:26 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> colinclark 2 still good to chat?
[13:00:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[13:00:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> just finishing up a chat with yura_ and michelled
[13:00:43 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> np
[13:33:05 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I am listening to KETTOL MUSSIKK (tongue)
[13:33:18 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> Let's party like its 2009......
[13:37:30 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> SUUUU-SCI-PE!!!
[13:45:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> oh wow
[13:45:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> what is going on?
[13:46:13 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: Here's that presentation about CSS variables, mixins, and modules I was telling you about: http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2011-01-12/slides.html
[13:46:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In Firefox, it actually seems to go in order (tongue)
[13:46:22 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks
[13:46:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And here's the more frustrating one about "Shadow DOM:" http://glazkov.com/2011/01/14/what-the-heck-is-shadow-dom/
[13:47:18 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Both authors work at Google
[13:50:03 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> are there only 5ish slides?
[13:50:04 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> While I'm at it, Chris Blizzard has a nice article on all the new features coming in Firefox 4: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/firefox-4-beta-9-a-huge-pile-of-awesome/
[13:50:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Justin_o: There should be more
[13:50:12 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> At least, it seemed like it
[13:50:13 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> finding the navigation to be annoying
[13:50:51 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Bosmon2 and I were complaining about other terrible Web-based slide decks
[13:50:52 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> recently
[13:50:58 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i skimmed through the beta 9 features a bit earlier.. speaking of which .. have you noticed your title bar flashing in the new beta
[13:51:27 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In Beta 9?
[13:51:31 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> iWork.com now allows you to post your keynote presentations and embed them in other web pages..
[13:51:36 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> yes.. in beta 9
[13:51:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Somehow, it hasn't been pushed to me on this machine yet
[13:52:00 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> ah
[13:52:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> On my recording studio laptop, it just installed this morning
[13:52:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but here, it seems not to have arrived yet
[13:52:35 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i guess it's good that chrome and firefox are only supporting webm
[13:52:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> guess that really will end up being the standard
[13:52:55 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I really don't know what to think about that, Justin_o
[13:53:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I think that in some ways, this is a war being fought at the user's expense
[13:53:33 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i figure mozilla wasn't going to relent and start using h.264...
[13:53:37 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> that i agree with
[13:53:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It may well be a really important war to fight
[13:53:45 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> it's not good for the users to have this fragmentation
[13:54:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> No, it's not
[13:54:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I mean, people just want to watch videos of silly cats and gadget unboxings and that sort of thing
[13:54:56 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess Apple has an awful lot at stake with H.264
[13:55:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> And I've never read anything from YouTube engineers about their confidence that WebM will scale
[13:55:26 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> there was a really great article about Theora not scaling to YouTube levels
[13:55:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> so one can only imagine that WebM satisfies that complaint
[13:55:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I forget what Microsoft has planned for IE 9... are they supporting HTML 5 video?
[14:06:00 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> yes
[14:06:24 CST(-0600)] <Bosmon2> I thought so....
[14:11:27 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> I think it still may be better to have a single, even if slightly inferior, standard than multiple ones
[14:11:42 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> although i do like h.264
[14:12:06 CST(-0600)] <Justin_o> i think if we continue to have the multiple standards, flash will stick around longer
[15:30:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: How's it going? Were you able to make any progress while I was giving the tour?
[15:34:59 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> hey colinclark, a little - $('.flc-scrollableTable-scrollable').scrollTo("100%"); works
[15:35:07 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm not sure why that.scroller doesn't still tho...
[15:35:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> when i print it out in console, it says that selector
[15:35:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i wonder if other selectors on it are interfering
[15:36:43 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm not sure that can is possible
[15:37:07 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> can you do me a favour? In the debugger, can you double check that that.scrollable and $('.flc-scrollableTable-scrollable') are the same things?
[15:37:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> You'll have to check the DOM element "underneath" the jQuery
[15:37:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> by doing something like this
[15:37:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> it says the later is a selector
[15:37:39 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> and "scrollabe" is a selectorName
[15:37:40 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> that.scrollable[0] === $('.flc-scrollableTable-scrollable')[0]
[15:37:49 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I don't quite understand what you mean, heidi_
[15:39:34 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm not sure how to do what you asked
[15:41:15 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok
[15:41:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> can you make me a patch of what we have, and I can take a quick look
[15:41:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ?
[15:41:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> sure
[15:43:21 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> thanks!
[15:43:59 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So the next thing I'll need to show you is how to set up the scroller as a subcomponent of the File Queue View, so that we don't hard-bake table-ism int o the code
[15:48:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> hey heidi_ so, the height issue with our scrollable table
[15:49:01 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> If I understand it correctly, we need to set a fixed height on the scrollable element so that it can, well, scroll
[15:49:02 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> right?
[15:49:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> right, and it's set in fss_layout.css now, as like 160px or something
[15:49:27 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> so it could be over-ridden in your own styesheet
[15:49:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> ok, sort of a strangely arbitrary size for a general FSS style
[15:49:36 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i feel like that might be the simplest way
[15:49:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but yes, as you say, it could be overridden with your own styles
[15:49:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> on
[15:49:44 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> on the other hand
[15:49:54 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah i just copied from what uploader was using... we could make it a percentage or em
[15:50:08 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we could take a different approach and provide a height option to the scrollableTable component
[15:50:15 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yep
[15:50:25 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> the upside of that is that it's a relatively general way for people to override stuff
[15:50:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> but it sort of breaks a nice clean separation
[15:50:42 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> where you style stuff in stylesheets
[15:50:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and put code stuff in code
[15:50:53 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> here we'd be asking users to specify a height right in the options, instead
[15:51:00 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we do this, I believe, in InlineEdit at the moment
[15:51:05 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and it's one of Justin_o's pet peeves
[15:51:36 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I'm feeling rather on the fence about it
[15:51:45 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i'm just thinking about the implementer... what's the simplest way
[15:52:01 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i feel like someone using this feature might be a css-er
[15:52:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's always nice to offer functionality at the highest, simplest level possible
[15:52:23 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> and CSS is right at the top
[15:52:28 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> nice, clean, easy place to put styles
[15:52:39 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> so right now if i want my table to be scrollable with a fixed header
[15:52:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i call fluid.scrollableTable(mytable)
[15:53:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> and voila. with a height option it would look like?
[15:53:41 CST(-0600)]

<heidi_> fluid.scrollabelTable(mytable,

Unknown macro: {height}

); ?

[15:53:48 CST(-0600)]

<colinclark> fluid.scrollableTable(myTable,

Unknown macro: { height}


[15:53:48 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[15:54:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So, tell me
[15:54:17 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> easier perhaps
[15:54:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> I guess I'll look at the patch first, before asking obvious questions (smile)
[15:54:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> vs finding out div name and tweaking it
[15:55:32 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Uploader's stylesheet is just so gigantic
[15:55:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yes
[15:55:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> it'll be great to go a little deeper and refactor all that
[15:55:50 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> maybe not this release? Or maybe we can?
[15:56:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> i tried to organise it a bit but i think we can pare it down more with these recent changes
[15:56:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> Does your patch include the changes to fss.layout?
[15:56:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: Makes sense that if we're tidying up the markup we should also try to streamline the styles
[15:56:39 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> once we get all this working, that is (smile)
[15:56:56 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> patch should have fss-layout
[15:57:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> regardless of streamlining, uploader still has a ton of styles
[15:57:46 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> but will still clean up
[15:59:27 CST(-0600)] <jamon> fluid-everyone: need to do a wiki restart to update a username. easiest is to find/replace in an sql dump. also need to restart to see about resolving james' permissions issue. anyone have a problem with that being done around 21:00 EST tonight?
[16:00:21 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> jamon, works for me
[16:00:41 CST(-0600)] <michelled> jamon: are you changing someone's username?
[16:00:59 CST(-0600)] <jamon> michelled: yes, jutta's (wink)
[16:01:16 CST(-0600)] <jamon> however, maybe this is something all fluid-everyone users would find useful?
[16:01:24 CST(-0600)] <michelled> ah - any chance you feel like changing mine at the same time?
[16:01:26 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile)
[16:01:37 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I'd love it match my irc nick: michelled
[16:01:40 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I see I'm not the only one
[16:01:55 CST(-0600)] <jamon> heh, might be worth me finding all u of t names and sending a message about it
[16:01:59 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I'd also welcome a switch to anastasiac
[16:02:12 CST(-0600)] <jamon> i would like to change mine too now that y'all have me thinking about it
[16:02:44 CST(-0600)] <jamon> anastasiac, michelled, tell you what, i will test on a dev instance first and get back to you tomorrow?
[16:02:56 CST(-0600)] <michelled> sounds like a good idea
[16:03:13 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> thanks!
[16:03:16 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> heidi_: I just had a verbal conversation with Justin_o
[16:03:17 CST(-0600)] <michelled> and no issue if it's a lot of trouble - I'm pretty used to typing that old invalid email address (wink)
[16:03:20 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> He makes a compelling argument
[16:03:29 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> oh?
[16:03:41 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> In short, he pointed out that there is not really any sensible, universal fixed size for "some scrollable table"
[16:03:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> It's going to depend on each table
[16:04:04 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yeah
[16:04:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> So if we stick the height in the component's options, it's really the same sort of issue
[16:04:11 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> as if we were to put it in a stylesheet
[16:04:24 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> we have to provide some default, but nothing is particularly better than any other
[16:04:28 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> do you just mean, there's not good default
[16:04:31 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> right
[16:04:33 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> yep
[16:04:34 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> which argues for one of two approaches
[16:04:54 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 1. Don't specify this anywhere. Let each component or user of fluid.scrollableTable take care of it themselves
[16:05:14 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> 2. Specify some relatively arbitrary but sensible value in the CSS, and let people override it however they see fit
[16:05:34 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> not sure if 1. makes it obvious enough that height has to be set?
[16:05:45 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> probably not
[16:06:03 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> better to set one, and then have the styler say "hey, that's not what I want. I guess I have to go override the height value here."
[16:06:06 CST(-0600)] <colinclark> do you think?
[16:06:24 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> yep for sure
[16:06:38 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> and i think setting it when you call it is best, as an option
[16:07:00 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> vs digging around for div name, finding css etc
[16:07:03 CST(-0600)] <heidi_> over-riding