fluid-work IRC Logs-2013-07-04

[07:45:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv, jhung1: there are a couple things regarding the sprint to chat with you about 1) we will be working out of a clone of one of the gpii repos for the work https://github.com/fluid-project/prefsEditors. 2) would it be possible for the two of you to help with getting the selected resource in as the content for the demo.. this would also involve captioning the videos

[07:45:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> we'll need to chat with anastasiac for both of those

[07:47:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o here to help w any of that, for sure

[07:48:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o did you want to skype about that stuff?

[07:49:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: sure.. i can give you a high level over view but we'll probably need anastasiac for more the details.. would you prefer to wait for her to all chat together, or we can chat for now and you can ping her for more info when she's in

[07:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o let's wait for A

[07:51:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: sounds good

[08:29:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o jhung markup for widget icons… not sure how to make backwards compat. this is what's used now: <a class="fl-force-left fl-icon fl-icon-more" href="#">More</a> where fl-icon indents that txt -5000px. i think what we have to do is preserve these styles as they are (minus the image - it will just show the text) and create a new more icon style for the icon font. hope that makes sense.

[08:30:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung1> Ah this is tricky heidiv because the icon needs to go into its own element within the <a> </a>

[08:32:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> otherwise we'll be adding a font-family to the <a> which will change the way the text appears in the link.

[08:33:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung the new markup would be something like <a class="fl-force-left fl-icon" href="#"><span class="fl-icon-more" aria-label="Show more" role="img"></span></a>

[08:33:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> which is fine, but need to make sure the old markup will render ok as well

[08:33:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> prob even remove those 2 classes from the <a> tag as well

[08:37:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung Justin_o so the question is… do you think it's sufficient to show the "More" text for those using the new theme/old markup

[08:37:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> and the font icon for those using new theme/new markup

[08:37:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: you mean it would be visible on screen now?

[08:38:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'd over-ride that text-indent style and yes, "More" would then show and no image

[08:38:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: hmm.. i don't think that would work for the backwards compatibility, if we now say you get the text instead of the icon

[08:42:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o backwards compat: is the idea more that it wouldn't break/still make sense vs. working perfectly? hmm. when we say a new theme will work for old implementations i guess, what does that mean...

[08:58:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'm not sure of any other way of making the old markup <a class="fl-force-left fl-icon fl-icon-more" href="#">More</a> display an image that's not a bg image (as old themes do)

[08:59:08 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> hey heidiv. I've figured a way to get the unicode / PUA codes for our TTF font on Mac without needing the original CSS / HTML markup from the font.

[08:59:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung cool, i've already put the codes in but for future ref - how?

[08:59:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: It's a bit convoluted so I'll document it in our infusion documentation.

[08:59:37 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ok

[08:59:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah. Since we're not saving the HTML and CSS with our fonts in the repo.

[09:00:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung what are your thoughts on the backwards compat issue

[09:00:23 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung the codes are now in my theme's css so, saved there

[09:00:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> got a minute to skype heidiv?

[09:00:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ya, Justin_o can join us?

[09:01:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> he's chatting w cindyli at the moment.

[09:01:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ok

[09:06:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv, jhung: i can chat with you now if you still need to

[09:45:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, cindyli, heidiv, jhung: yzen has updated the gpii github repo structure in readiness for the discovery tool: https://github.com/fluid-project/prefsEditors

[09:45:19 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I've already created a branch in my repo and added a build of infusion: https://github.com/acheetham/prefsEditors/tree/GPII-118

[09:45:26 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so you might want to start with that branch

[09:45:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anastasiac ok cool

[09:46:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidiv, I imagine that inside the discoveryTool folder, we might create a "demos" folder for the demo-specific stuff

[09:48:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anastasiac will there be other tools within src/ that we would want to demo? If so maybe /demos should be on same level as src

[09:49:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, good point heidiv. There will eventually be the other prefs editors, the PCP and the PMT alongside the DT, so yes, perhaps demos as a sibling of src and tests, with a discoveryTool folder inside it?

[09:49:59 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> that sounds good to me!

[09:51:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What will the demo-specific stuff include?

[09:52:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, that would include the HTML, css, images for that electrons resource, and any JS specific to instantiating the DT on that page

[09:52:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ah, yes

[09:52:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that makes sense to me

[09:52:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "the content"

[09:53:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right

[09:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anastasiac oops i think i meant /demos within src, on same level as /discTool /lib vs. within /discTool

[09:55:18 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hm. thinking, heidiv

[09:55:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> prefsEditors / src / demos

[09:56:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidiv, I just chatted with yzen about what would likely be consistent with gpii setups, and he thinks top level, sibling to src would work, with a discoveryTool folder inside

[09:56:38 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> yeah, not sure how much we want to align w how infusion is organised?

[09:56:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ok cool

[10:04:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't think we need to align too closely to how Infusion is organized, in general

[10:04:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen: I was going to ask you about the name of the "lib" directory, which has always historically been where we put third party libraries

[10:05:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I was under the impression that it meant something more specific in the npm world

[10:05:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Like, "lib" is where most libraries put their src files?

[10:05:18 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> colinclark: ya i believe that's where the source code goes (node specific in particular)

[10:05:23 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> colinclark: yes

[10:05:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I wonder if we should take that into account here

[10:05:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Here's an example: https://github.com/visionmedia/express/tree/master/lib

[10:05:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That contains the implementation code for Express

[10:06:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yzen, anastasiac: Do you think it would make sense to rename our "lib" directories here to something else?

[10:08:37 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> i believe so yes

[10:08:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yzen and I came up with the folder hierarchy together, but given the potential for confusion, I'd be happy to rename the client-side lib folder. What would you suggest, colinclark?

[10:09:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess I'm not suggesting anything if yzen thinks it's consistent

[10:09:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> when it comes to these sorts of topics, I defer entirely to him

[10:13:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yzen says anything inside src is assumed to be static and so lib should be fine

[10:14:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ok, sounds good to me

[10:34:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hey nanook, greggy wants to check out your blog. Can you send him a link whenever you get a spare moment?

[10:38:42 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> Hey greggy. haven't updated it yet but here's the link: http://flocking-playground.tumblr.com/

[10:41:55 CDT(-0500)] <greggy> nanook: thanks, try to keep it up to date so we can see how your project is progress. Once a week is enough, a paragraph or two.

[10:43:28 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> greggy: yup. I'll post an update this weekend.

[11:01:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: I was thinking that it might make sense for me to review FLUID-5082 for you today

[11:01:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Since Fish is gone for the week

[11:01:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and we talked about it here yesterday

[11:02:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There's also FLUID-4035, I see--related to the Pager

[11:02:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> colinclark - that would be marvellous

[11:02:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Is cindyli away as well?

[11:02:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I believe she was around this morning

[11:02:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> In looking over UIO I found there was a final HEART OF DARKNESS : P

[11:02:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol

[11:02:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> what is that?

[11:03:08 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> In that FLUID-4035 has not quite smashed the VERY FINAL manual init component

[11:03:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Although I did rewrite Jacob's "FSS mobile demo" last night

[11:03:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, interesting

[11:03:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Which it seems has been broken since late 2010

[11:03:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark>

[11:03:45 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It is the PAGEENHANCER

[11:03:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Just as we start to raise the question of adding the FSS to our "arson list"

[11:03:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> tell me more, Bosmon2

[11:03:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I'm not quite sure how this escaped review... I was sure that it got fixed

[11:04:01 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> But it seems it was only half-fixed

[11:04:11 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It currently has a really ridiculous workflow which must not be tolerated

[11:05:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I guess I always assumed that the fixed version was just around the corner in one or other of the branches we have flying around

[11:05:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion/blob/master/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/js/UIEnhancer.js#L240-L249

[11:05:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> But this is the kind of thing up with which we will not put : P

[11:19:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you're funny, Bosmon2

[11:20:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey yzen and Bosmon2, are you guys up for chatting with me a bit later here about things we can do to help along the various preference editor teams?

[11:20:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I was thinking about Chris' email to the list, which I had pinged yzen about responding to

[11:20:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but knowing that you're busy yzen, maybe we could talk about it here and then I can compose a quick response, if that is helpful

[11:20:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yzen is afk colinclark. Should be back in 20 maybe?

[11:20:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> no worries

[11:20:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The channel is logged

[11:21:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon2: Will cindyli be able to implement this change fairly easily, or are you going to work on it as part of your global upgrade of our components?

[11:23:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> colinclark - it should be pretty simple for cindyli

[11:23:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[11:24:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, i'm going to hop on the subway shortly, and then hopefully we'll chat this afternoon

[11:24:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> ok, catch you soon

[12:04:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Hi cindyli

[12:05:16 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I was noting earlier that there is a remaining HEART OF DARKNESS left in UIOptions : P

[12:05:36 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> hi all, i'm putting together the icons for the discovery tool presets we decided on last week: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/download/attachments/34578639/DiscoveryTool-icons.jpg

[12:05:36 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung, Justin_O, anastasiac, heidiv, danaayotte, and others what do you think of the icons and labels used?

[12:07:19 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Hi, Bosmon2, what's that darkness about?

[12:08:08 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> vjoanna i like the icons! the only labels that feel a little off to me are "spoken" and "written" as they're past-tense. "spoken" sort of implies something already happened… "speak" might be better?

[12:08:15 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> vjoanna, they look good to me, I think. The simpler icon – without the label, I might not be able to guess what it means, but with the label, it works

[12:08:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> what does "written" do?

[12:09:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> cindyli - it is about the PAGEENHANCER!

[12:09:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i wonder if "listen" would make any more/less sense than "speak" ...

[12:09:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion/blob/master/src/webapp/components/uiOptions/js/UIEnhancer.js#L240-L249

[12:10:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> tho i sort of like how the possible vagueness kind of encourages "discovery" - you click on it to better figure out the meaning!

[12:12:38 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> heidiv: 'written' always shows image alt text and turns on transcripts, maybe labelling it 'more text' makes more sense?

[12:12:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> too bad "textier" isn't a word

[12:13:29 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> true, Bosmon2, we are trying to get rid of the pageEnhancer with the schema work

[12:13:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> 'more text' makes better sense to me than 'written'

[12:13:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> cindyli - do you think you could fix its workflow in the meantime?

[12:14:15 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon2: what do you expect in the new workflow?

[12:14:25 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> get rid of pageEnhancer completely

[12:14:35 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> or just the manual instantiation part?

[12:14:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> cindyli - for it to be a standard component, and not to call the framework methods which will shortly be deprecated

[12:14:39 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> vjoanna: I personally prefer verbs to describe buttons. So maybe "Enlarge", "More Contrast", "Less Contrast", "Simplify", "Speak", "???"

[12:14:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> Just the manual instantiation

[12:14:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> By next week it will be the only manual init component left in the framework, most likely

[12:16:31 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: If we call it "More Text", it sounds like it's the opposite of "Simplify", which isn't the case.

[12:16:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Textify

[12:16:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> no

[12:16:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv>

[12:17:03 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> +1

[12:17:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "Text Only" ?

[12:17:19 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> hmm, how about 'describe'?

[12:18:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "put into words"

[12:18:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> hmm

[12:18:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> vjoanna: better, but it doesn't quite fit transcripts or subtitles since they're alternatives, not descriptions.

[12:18:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "spell out"

[12:18:35 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> yeah... hmmm

[12:19:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "less images"

[12:19:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> no, for video too...

[12:19:09 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Bosmon2: the reason we are doing the manual instantiation is to keep track of the original UIE options which can be achieve by our primary schema grades. can we wait that it disappears when our schema work is in place? or before that?

[12:19:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "less media" ? too vague...

[12:19:42 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> how about "Extra Text" ?

[12:19:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> and less implies removing

[12:20:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i think extra has sort of the same issue as "more text"

[12:20:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> sounds like something added?

[12:20:12 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidiv, there wouldn't be less media, afaik, all the media would stay, just be supplemented by text

[12:20:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ya

[12:20:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "replace media"

[12:21:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> swap, exchange, substitute, change...

[12:21:35 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> hi anastasiac, will the tutorial here: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Tutorial+-+Full+Page+UI+Options still work with the v1.5 since I'm using this version?

[12:22:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ramil, no that tutorial isn't valid. You'll have to look at the demo in v1.5 to see an example of how to set it up

[12:22:37 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> hm, 'extra text' makes sense to me because image descriptions and transcripts are added to the media?

[12:22:38 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "show alternatives"

[12:22:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidiv, replace is exactly wrong: There is will be no swapping or exchanging or substituting

[12:23:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> "show alternatives" is probably not text-specific enough

[12:23:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anastasiac ah, so images will remain, but their alt text will show.. .below?

[12:23:16 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> anastasiac, the demo seems to only have the fat panels version

[12:23:18 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> "show text" or "show transcripts"

[12:23:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> we don't mean audio alternatives, or anything like that. It's just more text

[12:23:59 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ramil, try having a look inside the tests/manual-tests folder. I think we moved the full-page demos there

[12:24:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> make sure they work, before you follow their example!

[12:24:25 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> vjoanna so that button keeps all media, but just adds text below them?

[12:24:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> then "more text" makes sense, jhung?

[12:24:58 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I looked up "verbosity" and came across "expression". I like expression because the text expresses the visuals in different ways.

[12:25:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> what about "caption"

[12:25:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> captions are used for images and video

[12:25:24 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> it depends on how it's rendered Justin_o

[12:25:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it would have to accompany the visual form

[12:25:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: "More text" is okay… but I feel like we can get a better description.

[12:25:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> can someone explain what the button does exactly?

[12:26:30 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> the intial "written" implied to me that media would be replaced by text, but doesn't sound like that's the case

[12:26:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: turn on transcripts and subtitles for video, and alt text to images.

[12:27:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung are images removed?

[12:27:14 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> no. they're still shown.

[12:27:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> got it

[12:27:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> so alt-text becomes , as Justin_o said, a caption?

[12:27:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> So "more" is right, but it isn't just text. It's more nuanced than that.

[12:28:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: not quite a caption. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Preference+Discovery+Tool+%28June+7%29

[12:29:22 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> shows up as a "CC" above the image.

[12:29:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> then rendered like a tooltip.

[12:29:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Is that right?

[12:29:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "transcribe" ?

[12:30:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> not sure that applies to images… tricky images/video alts are hard to umbrella under one thing

[12:30:19 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> yeah.

[12:30:29 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> "transcribe & describe" :|

[12:32:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Maybe go with "More Text" until we see more wireframes / clarity on what it does? What about "More Words"?

[12:33:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> "Text" is nerdy. 8)

[12:34:49 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung sounds good, i'll do that

[12:35:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i like anastasiac 's word "supplemental" but not sure how that could fit in

[12:35:38 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> thanks everyone for your input!

[12:35:41 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'll grab some friends later tonight and see what labels they come up with.

[12:35:57 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna>

[12:36:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen, cindyli: any problem with me referening to the auxiliary schema with just "aux"

[12:36:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so "auxBuilder", "auxSchema" and etc.

[12:36:47 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> i like that

[12:36:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> thanks

[12:37:01 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> Justin_o: what about the top level option

[12:37:08 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> will it still be auxiliarySchema or just aux ?

[12:37:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: auxSchema maybe

[12:37:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: i'm wondering if the name of your component will be confused with mine.. yours is fluid.uiOptions.schemaBuilder

[12:38:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i was thinking of naming mine fluid.uiOptions.auxBuilder

[12:38:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but was thinking they are too different like that

[12:38:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> what do you think?

[12:39:58 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> Justin_o: i can call mine primaryBuilder

[12:40:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: okay.. do you think we need to put schema in there somewhere.. i don't have a preference either way

[12:41:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: by the way.. here is the component http://pastie.org/private/rd9ipasnckhhvznkokzohg

[12:41:42 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> i guess not , since we are only concerned with the schema as just one part of the build process

[12:41:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> the auxiliary builder

[12:42:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: cindyli had already created the function to expand the "@" references

[12:42:11 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> makes sense , o think the name of the input schema options should be full though

[12:42:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i need to write a test for it still though

[12:42:15 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> ncie

[12:42:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: you mean auxiliarySchema instead of auxSchema

[12:42:57 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> ya

[12:43:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> okay.. will do

[12:43:03 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> internally i think aux is cool

[12:43:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yzen: okay thanks

[12:43:46 CDT(-0500)] <yzen>

[12:51:56 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> vjoanna: are the icons ready? (I think I missed this).

[12:53:56 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung: yes, should i export them as a font or are you doing this?

[12:54:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'll do that vjoanna since the SVG export can be a bit finicky. The AI file would be best.

[12:55:37 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung: thanks, i'll upload the ai file to the wiki

[12:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> cool thanks vjoanna

[13:50:37 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> anastasiac, is the initSettingsStore() functions only for the fat panel?

[13:50:46 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> *function

[13:51:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> no, ramil, that function should happen on any page, whether it's used with fat panel or full-page

[13:51:24 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> in the example for the full page with no preview its not included

[13:52:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ramil, it's possible that the demo is not fully updated. Without that function, I think that any changes made won't affect the page

[14:26:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark, Bosmon2: have you ever done a test of with jqUnit.assertDeepEq where one of the expected values for one of the object keys is undefined

[14:27:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Can you elaborate?

[14:27:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: basically i want to test out our expansion of the auxiliary schema.. there are spots where you can reference other parts of the schema for the actual values..

[14:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: if the path specified there doesn't exist, it is set instead to undefined

[14:28:06 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so we want to test this

[14:28:36 CDT(-0500)]

[14:28:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anyways.. this object is created as {}

[14:28:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> with the key removed

[14:29:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which seems to me to be what you want

[14:29:04 CDT(-0500)]

[14:29:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure it makes sense to distinguish between a key set to undefined and non-existent key

[14:29:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> if I remember correctly, you can't actually even set a key in a JSON object to undefined

[14:29:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> both of those should be equivalent

[14:29:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> we don't

[14:29:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but assertDeepEq does

[14:29:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> right

[14:30:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> so there in lies the problem.. it keeps causing the test to fail

[14:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> even though to us they are the same

[14:30:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i was wondering if you knew a way around it besides changing our code to delete those keys

[14:30:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Or changing your test expectation to include them?

[14:31:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: by the way, you are right from what i can see that you can't assign a key to undefined in a json object, it will just ignore that key

[14:31:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> well because you can't set the key to undefined you can never create that expectation

[14:31:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> we actually do have it there

[14:31:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but of course it never gets created

[14:39:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Summary of an in-person chat with Justin_o...

[14:40:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> For whatever reason, setting a property directly on an object to undefined, at least in Firefox, causes the property to be no longer visible

[14:41:12 CDT(-0500)]

[14:41:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Whereas setting a property on a contained object will cause the property to remain visible but with a value of undefined

[14:42:05 CDT(-0500)]

[14:42:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I suggested to Justin_o that he explicitly delete properties when he doesn't want them to be included in the target object

[14:43:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: thanks for the suggestion and the summary

[14:47:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It's certainly not ideal

[16:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hi Bosmon2

[16:55:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "integral tendency"