fluid-work IRC Logs-2013-09-04

[08:13:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> hey Justin_o jhung let me know if i can help w anything. i'm finishing 168 aria panel now. will the new TOC happen this week?

[08:13:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: I doubt we'll get to the new ToC

[08:14:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ok

[08:14:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: is this pull request ready to be looked at again? https://github.com/fluid-project/prefsEditors/pull/23

[08:15:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i can't remember what the last issue was with it - do you? The overlap in safari was fixed, and then i think there was a merge issue fixed

[08:16:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'll remerge w master now incase there've been updates since

[08:18:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i think the issue with the overlap had reappeared, but i can't quite recal

[08:18:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> recall

[08:18:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o ill dble check now

[08:19:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: thanks

[08:20:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv, Justin_o - is there anything I can help with?

[08:21:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung any thoughts on DT and keyboard users? gpii-163

[08:22:09 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: yeah, but waiting for vjoanna to discuss.

[08:36:50 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o 162 looking good to me

[08:37:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay.. i'll take another look at it, thanks

[08:47:49 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> vjoanna: I was wondering if we can chat about keyboard navigation for Discovery Tool? I have a proposal and would like your feedback.

[08:55:00 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung: yes, when's best for you?

[08:55:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> We can have it on list vjoanna.

[08:55:37 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Sorry I meant in this channel.

[08:55:56 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> sounds good

[08:56:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Here's what I propose:

[08:57:30 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> 1. A skip link be added at the top menu bar of the demo (perhaps after the Subjects link).

[08:57:46 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> 2. The skip link puts focus on the Discovery Tool hide/show button.

[08:58:51 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> 3. If the Discovery Tool is open, the user can tab through all the options until focus lands back at the top. ESC will close the panel.

[08:59:16 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> (Although ESC will conflict with AT hotkeys, so maybe we should use a different keystroke).

[08:59:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Thoughts?

[09:03:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung what would the skip link say?

[09:04:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung i believe ESC already closes the panel

[09:05:50 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung: it makes sense to me, except the skip to link. I'm worried having it might be a bit tedious and out of context. What if we can have the discovery tool button focus after the top menu bar - I think as long as the focus style is clear, it won't be too disorienting for the user.

[09:06:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: Not sure but it will have to be pretty descriptive since it will move focus. Something along the lines of "Customize Your Experience" or something like that.

[09:07:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> vjoanna: so what you're proposing is to have the tab order go through top bar, then discovery tool (and all items if panel is open), and then the demo content?

[09:08:04 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> yes

[09:09:15 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Would it be too much to have the user tab through all those links before getting to the content vjoanna?

[09:13:26 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> jhung: It would be the same amount of links if the panel closed - And if the user doesn't want to tab through all the presets when the panel is open they could close it.

[09:15:23 CDT(-0500)] <vjoanna> For the shortcut, could we use a single key like 'd' and have it both open and close the panel?

[09:15:37 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: how does that sound to you?

[09:16:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung sure focusing on DT after top links sounds ok, as long as the user can follow what's happening easily. not sure about the open/close key idea…could interfere with other stuff. ESC currently closes the panel

[09:19:27 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: true. If a hotkey opens the panel, it could cause confusion with respect to where we should put focus. Also it may be cognitively confusing if the panel suddenly opens and the user isn't aware of their actions.

[09:20:52 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung it might be a good thing to add someday…could see that being quite handy. but more research needed i think… AT hotkey interference too

[09:24:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: yeah. I'd be reluctant to add it at this point. Perhaps if we were earlier in the design cycle...

[09:45:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: could you please take a look at this pull request

[09:45:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> https://github.com/fluid-project/prefsEditors/pull/39

[09:45:21 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> for sure Justin_o

[09:45:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: thanks

[10:03:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anastasiac i was thinking of doing VP-192 this afternoon. if there's more helpful stuff to tackle for the VP tho, let me know?

[10:10:44 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidiv, VP-192 would be pretty helpful, thanks

[10:10:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> k

[10:14:43 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac, michelled: Justin_o and I were chatting what's the next one to work on and not sure which of these two has higher priority: GPII-131 to implement better TOC or video player stuff. what do you think? anastasiac, anything urgent in vp that you need help with?

[10:17:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hm. good question, cindyli, regarding the relative priority of the two. Personally, I'm thinking that getting the video player stuff in place might increase the scope of the discovery tool demo more than enhancing the ToC stuff.

[10:18:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> As for video player work, the upgrade to the latest Infusion is probably the main task, cindyli: VP-297. I started on it, but didn't finish. There are links to branches on the iteration page. I don't think we'll be able to use the schema version, so that branch might not be worth pursuing

[10:18:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, what do you think regarding ToC work vs VP work?

[10:19:31 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> VP is higher priority

[10:19:32 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> agree that discovery tool may not be able to use the schema version without the new model relay and transformation in place

[10:19:46 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok, i can work on VP-192: Change to using the new Amara API. seems no one has yet taken on it

[10:20:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> cindyli: i think heidiv is looking at that one

[10:21:56 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> haha, other vp jiras are depending on VP-297 that anastasiac is working on and VP-192 that heidiv is working on.

[10:22:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i think you could prob take over vp-297 cindyli?

[10:23:01 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok, heidiv, anastasiac, you are not currently working on 297, right?

[10:23:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I think the work that heidiv is doing on VP-192 could probably be done without the Infusion upgrade, and the two merged later

[10:23:21 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, no, I'm focusing on docs right now, so if you have time to pick up 297, that would be great

[10:23:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> cindyli i'm going to start vp-192 soon, but not 297

[10:23:42 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> cool. thanks, guys

[10:39:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hey danaayotte, I'm just going through my backlog of emails and had a question for you. I see that you've been creating font icons for Chris and others working on preferences editors, which is awesome. Are these getting posted to the wiki or a JIRA where people can easily refer to them? I'm thinking that if they're only in email attachments, they might get lost, especially since I think the archives tend to strip attachments.

[10:42:23 CDT(-0500)] <danaayotte> thanks colinclark I put the first round on the wiki but not the most recently updated ones. I will do that. should they be in a JIRA too, or is the wiki enough?

[10:42:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I was just thinking about what the best approach is, and I'm really not sure

[10:42:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o or michelled might have opinions

[10:43:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> What do you guys think the best way is to manage the workflow of "UI artifacts" (e.g. images, font icons, etc.) from design to development?

[10:44:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i tend to like things in jira, it will make it easier to find based off of commit logs later..

[10:44:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> danaayotte: ^

[10:44:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> or at least link to the wiki page from the jira

[10:48:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: I merged in GPII-162

[10:48:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o sweet thanks

[11:10:18 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: I pushed your pull request - the tts is so much better

[11:15:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon2, Bosmon8: You'll be joining the docs sprint this afternoon, won't you?

[11:16:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: thanks..

[11:18:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o sent pull req for 168

[11:19:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: thanks.. i'll take a look

[11:19:56 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: can you update your GPII-176 pull request https://github.com/fluid-project/prefsEditors/pull/37

[11:20:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it wont' merge cleanly anymore

[11:20:27 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o okay

[11:20:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks

[11:29:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: left a couple of comments on your pull request for GPII-168

[11:33:28 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o thanks

[11:38:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: did you notice if the screen readers behaved any differently after adding the aria in?

[11:38:22 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o nada!

[11:38:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay

[11:38:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'm not sure how aria-expanded is read

[11:39:13 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o the aria-label changes on the button help a lot tho

[11:39:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay.. i'm noticing in the example page that it does read something out

[11:40:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: that would be the example from the page you linked to in the jira http://www.oaa-accessibility.org/example/20/

[11:40:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it says "Topic 1 Region"

[11:41:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o the "topic one region" ? this ex shifts focus to the region, and i didn't change the focus

[11:41:28 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> since the next thing you hit is a selectable within the region

[11:41:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: ah

[11:41:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'm not sure if moving the focus would help - think we should?

[11:42:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I think vjoanna wants it to stay on the button

[11:42:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> but could be wrong

[11:42:31 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i think in our case, that works fine

[11:43:26 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o re: changing the id name - would this be ref'd in the js somewhere as well or just a formality in naming in the demo html

[11:45:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i see what you mean.. in terms of the js.. you already have another selector for the element from there… i guess it's just a formality.. so you can leave it then… can you reply to my comment with that

[11:46:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o yeah the panel already has a selector w classname

[11:46:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> i'll leave it then - sort of underlines it's not used in the js which might be helpful?

[11:47:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: yah.. could be confusing otherwise

[11:47:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o so no changes to 168 needed

[11:47:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: just the one about setting the expanded state on creation and not just on open/close of the panel

[11:47:47 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o oh wait no , i added the oncreate bit

[11:48:28 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o pushed

[11:48:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: see it, thanks

[11:49:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> one more comment

[11:49:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: ^

[11:51:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o ok, how do i do that?

[11:55:23 CDT(-0500)]

[13:24:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: added another comment to your pull request..

[13:25:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o and cindyli, I responded to ChrisP's email on the architecture list with some improvements, but I'm stumped on the console error that's happening. Maybe one of you could have a look?

[13:26:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> sure, anastasiac

[13:29:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o updated

[13:34:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: thanks

[13:37:18 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, please also double-check my suggestions to make sure they're actually a good idea

[13:37:31 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli1> ok, anastasiac

[13:39:37 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> Justin_o: ping

[13:39:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: hello

[13:40:38 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> Justin_o: hey, sorry to bother… can i be that person who rarely speaks in here but sometimes jumps in and asks silly questions to spark conversation? when should the next Infusion release be? and what should be in it?

[13:40:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> It should be SOON!

[13:41:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon2: good timing

[13:41:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: yes.. i think we'd like to have something before the end of the year, but i want to talk to Bosmon2 about what he thinks will need to go into this release..

[13:42:18 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> great timing indeed

[13:43:04 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> it makes me think Bosmon2 has alerts on the terms 'silly' and 'bother'

[13:43:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Bosmon2, we're going to be starting the docs sprint momentarily - will you be able to join us?

[13:44:33 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: i read a blog post that had been slashdotted yesterday about documentation

[13:44:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I will be here

[13:45:12 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> it was long-winded but it made a few good points. documentation should "teach, not tell" – it's something that I think we're all motivated by, but it seemed particularly timely to have read it last night.

[13:45:55 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks for the pointer, jessm. found it

[13:46:37 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: take my warning about long-windedness seriously. the title might make the biggest point already

[13:46:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> LOL

[13:46:54 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks for the warning

[13:47:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> interesting css on the page

[13:47:18 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yes, i noticed that too

[13:48:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon2> I see the observation "But I guarantee they’re going to notice if you throw in strange, uncommon words for no good reason" : P

[13:48:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> fluid-everyone, let's gather for the docs sprint. collab room for people on-site in Toronto, skupe otherwise

[13:48:56 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> it has some gems

[13:49:22 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> skupe? what is skupe?

[13:52:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac_> fluid-everyone: planning page for the docs sprint: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+Planning

[14:10:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o_> jhung: merged in your GPII-176 pull request

[14:10:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o_> heidiv: if i didn't mention i merged your GPII-168 pull request

[14:10:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> thanks

[14:17:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks Justin_o_

[14:21:43 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: it seems our fonts got messed up on the DT demo on the build site. Can you confirm? http://build.fluidproject.org/prefsEditors/demos/discoveryTool/

[14:24:55 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung do you mean the next arrow? this looks like an old bug. has the build site been updated lately?

[14:25:26 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: yeah. Also the arrows for the Download and Share links.

[14:26:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jhung yes i see that too. not sure how often that site gets updated

[14:28:28 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> heidiv: Let me check my local copy to see if they're the same.

[14:29:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> it looks like a regression heidiv

[15:28:22 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Subcomponents