fluid-work IRC Logs-2008-08-26

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[13:43:34 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> anastasiac and ecochran have been IM'ing about Undo in inline edit
[13:43:39 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> here is the transcript:
[13:43:40 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> right now the undoContainer span is getting a element style of display: block. But I can't figure out who's setting that style
[13:43:40 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it does seem to be in Undo.js
[13:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Anastasia (Toronto)
[13:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:40
[13:43:42 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah - had this discussion with jacob
[13:43:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> jQuery show() sets style=display:block
[13:43:45 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Eli Cochran
[13:43:47 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:40
[13:43:49 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> hmmm
[13:43:51 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> OK
[13:43:53 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Anastasia (Toronto)
[13:43:55 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:40
[13:43:57 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so any styling we're doing should probably be through class attributes and css, instead
[13:43:59 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Eli Cochran
[13:44:01 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:41
[13:44:03 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I think that I can work around it with a little trickiness
[13:44:05 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Anastasia (Toronto)
[13:44:07 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:41
[13:44:09 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> intriguing
[13:44:11 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Eli Cochran
[13:44:13 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:42
[13:44:15 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it would be good to be able to specify undo components the same way we specify editContainers
[13:44:17 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ie. if it exists then use it
[13:44:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> don't create it
[13:44:21 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Anastasia (Toronto)
[13:44:23 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:42
[13:44:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> do you want to move this to the channel?
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[13:44:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> Eli Cochran
[13:44:29 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> 10:42
[13:44:31 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes
[13:46:18 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> i think im coming into the conversation late, but were we discussing $.hide() and $.show()
[13:46:33 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> 'cause I have a beef with those guys...
[13:47:00 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes
[13:47:07 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I was about to discuss that
[13:47:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> using show and hide is problematic for inline element
[13:47:24 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> s
[13:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> yeah, they're convenient, but they're not so nice....
[13:47:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let me just clarify by showing you the implementation of jQuery.show()...
[13:48:07 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> actually it in many cases they are not really the right thing to do since they have some overhead that really isn't needed
[13:48:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it is enough to show and hide things via setting the css directly
[13:48:37 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> or by setting a class
[13:48:43 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> usually, it would be safer/better to either remove the display property, or to set it to ""
[13:48:59 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> you dont have to use a class/id per se
[13:49:01 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes, exactly
[13:49:22 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> its just that jQuery assumes "block" is the best way to 'show' something
[13:49:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://fluid.pastebin.com/m3314f67e
[13:49:33 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Take a look at the code...
[13:50:33 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> is this just a switch for which mode to display?
[13:50:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's only setting display: block for certain types of elements.
[13:51:04 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> it sets it on a span, at the very least....
[13:51:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And presumably based on certain styles.
[13:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> which is what happens in the springboards...
[13:51:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Is it possible that we have a style that is causing this edge case to be triggered?
[13:52:05 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> im not sure what he means by "or similar"....that could be where a mistake is occuring
[13:52:48 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You can see what's being done here... We're grabbing the element's tag name, creating a new one of the same tag, and temporarily adding it to the document.
[13:52:52 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> colinclark: actually....i dont see any special care taken here....could you help me out?
[13:53:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> perhaps it is the case where the initial display is not set
[13:53:25 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> If the default styling of this newly-injected element turns out to be display: none, then he's manually forcing it to be "block" instead.
[13:53:40 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> if I predefine the element as having an inline display in css, I wonder what will happen
[13:53:47 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> which isnt so good....display:"" would be better
[13:54:07 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> but an invisible element will always be display: none
[13:54:17 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so the edge isn't an edge at all
[13:54:41 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Looks to me like they're specifically working around an issue where "" isn't appropriate.
[13:54:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: ?
[13:55:21 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> when you create an element on the fly that you want to "show" then you're going to create that element with display: none
[13:55:29 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> this is the common case
[13:55:46 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so if an element is display: none, then it will default to display: block
[13:55:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But are you going to do that on the individual element, or on all elements of that type. Do you understand what I mean?
[13:55:57 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> "" should always be appropriate, unless your breaking the natural flow of a element
[13:56:09 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> like using inline divs or block level spans
[13:56:42 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: either, in my opinion
[13:57:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> usually I'll have a class of stuff that is hidden then I'll want to show the indeviduals
[13:57:14 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> or in the AJAX case
[13:57:24 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'm creating stuff on the fly and then showing it
[13:57:28 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> either way
[13:57:48 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> show needs another param: what display mode to use
[13:58:11 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> although again, the animation stuff would break that terribly
[13:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> which is why I think that we should avoid show and hide
[13:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's really clear from reading the code what is going on.
[13:58:50 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: illuminate us!
[13:58:51 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The only piece missing is why, if the element is naturally hidden, they are forcing it to "block" instead of ""
[13:59:05 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> hmm
[13:59:16 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I think that it's to handle the animation
[14:00:01 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> inline elements can do most of the animation because they can't be reliably sized.
[14:00:07 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> you know whats interesting.....
[14:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> i just tried doing this on the jQuery site
[14:00:23 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> with all sorts of different elements
[14:00:26 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> it looks to me like it's inserting an element of the same type to 'generate' the computed value of the display style. Then it looks at that value, and if it's "none", sets it to "block"
[14:00:40 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> and it got it right most of the time....not using block when it shouldnt
[14:01:11 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so it will only set it to display:block if it was display:none
[14:01:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> As far as I can tell, it's only going to use "block" if you've specifically created a style that looks like this:
[14:01:19 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> so why was it display:none?
[14:01:38 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac goes to look at what hide() does
[14:01:38 EDT(-0400)]

[14:01:58 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac realizes that doesn't matter
[14:02:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In case you're interested, here's hide(): http://fluid.pastebin.com/m6a21c785
[14:02:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You can see that if the element had a "display" property, it stuffs it into "oldblock" for safekeeping.
[14:03:05 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> colinclark, thanks. But as I realized, that shouldn't have any effect on the computed display property of a new element
[14:03:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> then sets the element's display style to "none."
[14:03:22 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> colinclark: im sorry, your right
[14:03:39 EDT(-0400)] <jacobfarber1> it looks like it already does use "" or the old style as needed
[14:03:39 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> OK<
[14:03:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> You'll notice that the standard case for show() is to simply grab oldblock and reset it.
[14:04:06 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I tested this, if I predefine the undoContainer class as being inline, it gets inline when it is shown
[14:04:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so this is mostly good
[14:04:53 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> but to back up a little bit...
[14:05:11 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> my conversation with anastasiac is a little more than just show and hide
[14:05:45 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it is the ? of whether Undo should be able to use an undo element that is in markup and not always create it on the fly
[14:06:00 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> the way that inline edit will use an extant editContainer
[14:06:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> if it already is in markup
[14:07:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> At the moment, Undo is hard-wired to self render.
[14:07:25 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> ecochran, the show() will only use display:block if the default style for an un-classed element of that type includes display:none
[14:07:45 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> is there anything in the stylesheets for your section info stuff that might be doing this?
[14:07:55 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> setting display:none on an element type?
[14:08:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: There's no reason we couldn't extend it to use an undo widget if it's already in the DOM.
[14:08:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> In fact I think that's perfectly reasonable. But in this case, I wonder why you want to do that.
[14:08:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: yes, I think that it should... the Section Info sample uses icons and not text
[14:09:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Yes, but as far as I understand from the wireframes, the default for Undo should be the icon.
[14:09:08 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> although I'm going to try to do it with background images and hidden spans
[14:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I'd actually make the change in the "template" for undo.
[14:09:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> the default in the code is text
[14:09:32 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yes, that's because the icon hadn't been decided upon.
[14:09:32 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> hmmm
[14:09:46 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> well the icon is still "undecided" because they all suck
[14:09:53 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That's not to say that it doesn't make sense that Undo should respect whatever is in the DOM.
[14:10:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> exactly
[14:10:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> But just to say that I don't want Undo to fall behind whatever our good iconic thinking comes up with.
[14:10:56 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'm actually wondering if for accessibility reasons, it make sense to use text with visibility: hidden and then a background-image icon?
[14:11:06 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> what do you accessibility experts think?
[14:13:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Icon with alt text is probably sufficient.
[14:13:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Will it be a button or a link?
[14:14:21 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> link, thinks /me
[14:14:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How come?
[14:14:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> damn, how do reference myself in IRC again
[14:14:37 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark is curious.
[14:14:37 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ?
[14:14:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "/me"
[14:14:59 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> that's what I did and it still didn't render it correctly
[14:15:05 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> anyway
[14:15:15 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> buttons carry a lot of baggage around with them
[14:15:23 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> links are easier to style
[14:15:42 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> "/me is curious."
[14:15:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> try it.
[14:15:53 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> also we've seen buttons do odd things in tab order
[14:16:05 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran is very curious
[14:16:09 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yay!
[14:16:11 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> why did it work that time
[14:16:22 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> ah because it was at the beginning not at the end /me?
[14:16:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yes
[14:16:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> that's it
[14:16:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Yep
[14:16:35 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> humph
[14:16:49 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran is running out of time todat
[14:17:01 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran also just noticed that I can pass in my own renderer
[14:17:04 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> to Undo
[14:17:10 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> tres cool
[14:17:36 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark>
[14:18:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That was my stopgap solution until we have a more solid template renderer.
[14:18:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> For little things, it works great.
[14:19:46 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: For starters, I'd suggest going with a link and a real image with alt text. It should do the right thing.
[14:20:02 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> colinclark: Justin_o can fire up the ol' screenreader and verify when you've got something in action.
[14:20:20 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: that's what I'm going to do for now
[14:20:49 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> wicked
[14:21:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> whoa, I have no idea how to pass in my own renderer using with inlineEdits implemented the way it is now
[14:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> var sectionNameEdits = fluid.inlineEdits(".sectionTable", {
[14:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> useTooltip: true,
[14:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> selectOnEdit: true,
[14:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> componentDecorators: "fluid.undoDecorator"
[14:21:43 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> });
[14:22:34 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Hmm. Might be a bug... my bug.
[14:22:38 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Let me take a look.
[14:22:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It depends on whether inlineEdits() passes its option to each inlineEdit().
[14:23:00 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I think I added it...
[14:23:07 EDT(-0400)] * colinclark should stop talking and read the code instead.
[14:23:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: my issue is that we're passing in the decorator as a string
[14:23:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I don't see a way to attach any user options
[14:23:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah
[14:23:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> let me take a look
[14:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: I could attach the decorator directly using an each after the fact
[14:25:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> should work
[14:26:01 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> one sec
[14:28:10 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Can I ask a silly question?
[14:28:17 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> sure
[14:28:22 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> How did you actually figure out how that componentDecorators option works?
[14:28:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> from the manual test
[14:28:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I had seen all this code, but not pieced it together...
[14:28:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Aha!
[14:29:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I wanted to do this: fluid.undoDecorator(sectionNameEdits); but that didn't work
[14:29:41 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac (n=team@142.150.154.160) has left #fluid-work
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[14:30:05 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: You'll have to decorate each inline editor...
[14:30:27 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I was afraid of that, but expecting it
[14:30:33 EDT(-0400)] * Topic is 'jQuery.show(), display:block, decorators, etc.' set by anastasiac on 2008-08-26 14:30:33 EDT(-0400)
[14:30:35 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So iterate through sectionNameEdits and invoke undoDecorator() on each.
[14:30:39 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I've already written half of it while we texting
[14:30:56 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's definitely a bug that there's no way to pass through options to the decorator.
[14:31:06 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ah, wait
[14:31:07 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> you can
[14:31:27 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> let me double-check, but it looks like it does exactly what I was going to suggest...
[14:31:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> yep
[14:33:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> if you create a property called fluid.undoDecorator, you can pass your options to it.
[14:33:12 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So...
[14:34:21 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://fluid.pastebin.com/m116d2467
[14:34:47 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That should do the trick... we're in the beta period, so our documentation is behind the curve, but this is what I gather from the code.
[14:35:16 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> That will save you from having to do your own manual undo decoration.
[14:35:28 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: ^
[14:36:06 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'm looking at it
[14:36:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: that works?
[14:36:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> I'm guessing so.
[14:36:45 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran is confused
[14:36:50 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Judging by following the code path.
[14:37:13 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran will try it
[14:37:20 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Why confused?
[14:37:46 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: it's a funny pattern
[14:37:58 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> componentDecorators: "fluid.undoDecorator",
[14:37:59 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> "fluid.undoDecorator": {
[14:37:59 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> renderer: myUndoRenderer
[14:37:59 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> }
[14:38:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> The fact that the name of the object is in quotation marks?
[14:39:24 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> no that it is declared and then redeclared
[14:39:35 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> anyway, it (drum roll) works!!!!!
[14:39:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> yeah!
[14:39:46 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: thank you thank you thank you
[14:39:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: It's not declared and then redeclared.
[14:40:14 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it seems that way
[14:40:28 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I don't really understand the syntax but I don't have time to now
[14:40:36 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I've got to get this finished and checked in
[14:44:19 EDT(-0400)] * phiggins (n=dante@c-68-34-199-67.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #fluid-work
[14:45:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: I'm going to file a bug with a suggestion for a clearer syntax.
[14:46:03 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac agreed with you that it reads as if it's being redeclared somehow.
[14:46:18 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> So I'm going to suggest that it look more like this:
[14:46:19 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> thanks!
[14:47:04 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> http://fluid.pastebin.com/m35f2659d
[14:47:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> It's a bit more verbose, but very explicit.
[14:47:45 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Does that seem about right?
[14:48:15 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> (of course one is always welcome to do it programmatically rather than declaratively)
[14:48:47 EDT(-0400)] <anastasiac> yep, colinclark, that looks good to me - much more clear
[14:48:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> k
[14:52:45 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran likes it better too
[14:53:25 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: another issue, inline edit removes the class declaration on the editable item
[14:53:33 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> or at least it seems to
[14:53:43 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Hmm...
[14:53:48 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I'm trying to do something like this <span class="text sectionName">
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[14:54:02 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> so I can use sectionName for some additional styling
[14:54:24 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> but after init, I'm left with class=""
[14:56:37 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: That's very strange. I don't see any code in InlineEdit that manipulates classes except addClass() and removeClass().
[14:56:44 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> And of course, it only touches our own classes.
[14:56:52 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Odd.
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[14:57:21 EDT(-0400)] * ecochran continues to be confused
[14:57:37 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> and he's dragging colinclark with him
[14:58:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> ecochran: Anything I can do to help?
[14:59:24 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Could the tooltip plugin be wreaking havoc? Seems unlikely...
[14:59:38 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: well I"m going to move on from this particular problem since the styling isn't critical
[14:59:59 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Are you using the tooltip?
[15:00:16 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> if you like you could look at the current code (I'm going to check in an update in a moment) and see if you can figure out why the class disappears
[15:00:17 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> Could you check real quick if you set useTooltip; false, does it still happen?
[15:00:34 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> I just started adding the tooltip stuff,I was missing the css
[15:00:45 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: I'll try that
[15:01:30 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> colinclark: didn't fix ti
[15:01:31 EDT(-0400)] <ecochran> it
[15:05:13 EDT(-0400)] <colinclark> hmmm
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