fluid-work IRC Logs-2011-12-19

[08:55:07 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> good morning, avtar, I'm having trouble accessing http://issues.fluidproject.org this morning. Are you able to access it from there in the office?

[08:55:38 CST(-0600)] <avtar> hi anastasiac

[08:55:49 CST(-0600)] <avtar> no, i can't access it

[08:56:02 CST(-0600)] <avtar> i'll look into it

[08:56:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> thanks

[09:36:58 CST(-0600)] <avtar> anastasiac: please try it again

[09:40:49 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> thanks, avtar, it seems to be working now.

[09:41:03 CST(-0600)] <avtar> np

[13:02:41 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, I've issued a pull request for FLUID-4544: https://github.com/fluid-project/videoPlayer/pull/7

[13:04:19 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thx anastasiac

[13:34:50 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, do you have a minute?

[14:06:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: I'm here now

[14:07:27 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> hi, michelled, I'm looking at FLUID-4546, cleaning up the HTML template for the video player

[14:08:31 CST(-0600)] <michelled> are you having issues with it?

[14:08:36 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> it seems that charly's markup is actually appropriate given that he's using jquery widgets

[14:09:47 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: the JIRA seems to imply that we were going to check whether it was appropriate, so if you've found that it is perhaps you can note your findings on the JIRA

[14:13:16 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> sorry, michelled, my wireless died - had to switch computers

[14:14:11 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I was saying: charly is using jQuery button() for the controls. I guess I'm wondering if we want to continue with that, or do it ourselves

[14:14:49 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> any thoughts, michelled?

[14:16:22 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: do we get anything by using query button?

[14:17:33 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> a little bit: jQuery styles to apply an icon as the button styling, applying your text as a tooltip,things like that

[14:17:59 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> but we don't really want to use jQuery's styles, for one

[14:22:11 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> michelled, sorry - my network came back so I switched back. Did I miss a response from you?

[14:23:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: it doesn't sound like we get anything from the plugin that are in the designs

[14:23:54 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I was also thinking about what markup we'd use if we didn't use jQuery, and I'd like to get your thoughts on that, regarding the semantics of the different controls (e.g. buttons vs. checkboxes, etc)

[14:28:31 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> one perspective goes like this: play activates a process, so the control should be a button; captions are turned on or off, so the control should be a checkbox; but I've been able to think of it in different ways, so I was hoping for some other perspectives, michelled

[14:29:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: can you see if you can find any recommendations on what they should be?

[14:29:20 CST(-0600)] <michelled> and use that as a starting point?

[14:29:27 CST(-0600)] <michelled> play as a button makes sense to me

[14:29:43 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> I've been looking for guidelines, but there doesn't seem to be anything definitive

[14:29:52 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> everyone has their own implementation, of course

[14:30:24 CST(-0600)] <michelled> did you happen to ping clown? in case he knows of some conversations that have been happening?

[14:30:42 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> nope, haven't tried him yet

[14:31:23 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> we can certainly use aria roles and properties to provide sematic info if we choose to use markup that isn't semantically informative

[14:32:01 CST(-0600)] <anastasiac> ok, I'll keep researching, and I'll just try something and submit it for review. thanks michelled

[14:37:18 CST(-0600)] <michelled> anastasiac: thanks - if you could put together a straw creature then we can chat about it

[14:37:29 CST(-0600)] <michelled> it will be a lot easier for me to have some code in front of me (smile)

[14:54:59 CST(-0600)] <clown> michelled: I was away, but I see you used my good name. looks.

[14:55:18 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I did (smile)

[14:55:38 CST(-0600)] <michelled> clown: anastasiac is making some markup for an HTML5 video player

[14:56:05 CST(-0600)] <michelled> and we were wondering if there were best practices around what elements to use for particular controls

[14:56:15 CST(-0600)] <clown> michelled: guess: you want to know what roles to use for various controls?

[14:56:51 CST(-0600)] <michelled> roles would be good too (smile) although if we can convey the semantics with plain old HTML I'd be even happier

[14:58:05 CST(-0600)] <clown> michelled: I don't know of any specific guidelines for video players. That doesn't mean that there aren't any.

[14:58:41 CST(-0600)] <clown> I can think of at least one person to ask, or, better, one list to ask on.

[14:58:52 CST(-0600)] * michelled listens

[14:59:48 CST(-0600)] <clown> My two cents: if the play button is also used to pause and restart, then it's a toggle (when depressed, it's playing, when not depressed it's paused).

[15:00:17 CST(-0600)] <michelled> that makes sense

[15:00:45 CST(-0600)] <michelled> which list were you thinking of clown? free-aria?

[15:01:00 CST(-0600)]

<clown> I don't think there is any such button type in HTML5, but could check. If not, then use a combo of role=button with the aria-pressed =

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[15:01:00 CST(-0600)] <clown> {color}

[15:01:35 CST(-0600)] <clown> the combination or role=button + aria-pressed makes it a toggle button.

[15:03:24 CST(-0600)] <clown> as for the captions button — yes, you could use checkboxes, or, again, toggle buttons. I'm not sure which is better. On Youtube, I believe the "CC" button acts like a toggle (it doesn't look like a checkbox). Are there only one set of captions?

[15:04:27 CST(-0600)] <clown> I'm thinking if you can specify different captions (aka different languages), then these might be radio buttons, or, if a lot of them, a menu.

[15:04:44 CST(-0600)] <michelled> there are several options

[15:04:53 CST(-0600)] <michelled> radio buttons might make the most sense indeed

[15:04:59 CST(-0600)] <clown> are they mutually exclusive?

[15:05:07 CST(-0600)] <michelled> for now they are

[15:05:30 CST(-0600)] <michelled> I can imagine that might change in the future (wink)

[15:05:37 CST(-0600)] <clown> rule of thumb: mutually exclusive == radio buttons or menu. additive = checkboxes or toggles.

[15:06:27 CST(-0600)] <clown> <irony> I can imagine a combinattion of mutually exclusive and additive </irony>

[15:06:37 CST(-0600)] <michelled> lol

[15:07:01 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thanks clown - this is very helpful

[15:07:09 CST(-0600)] <clown> anyhow, I'll post to the list asking if any guidelines have been suggested for the nature of controls for video players in HTML5.

[15:09:15 CST(-0600)] <michelled> thanks clown, let us know what you find out

[15:09:44 CST(-0600)] <clown> you're welcome. will do.

[15:10:04 CST(-0600)] <clown> michelled ^

[15:10:25 CST(-0600)] <michelled> (smile)