fluid-work IRC Logs-2013-06-04

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Last updated: Jun 04, 2013Version comment
11 min read

[08:19:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: hello.. i was looking over http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Floe+Iteration+Plan

[08:20:14 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> was wondering how FLUID-4972 and FLUID-4994 are going.. i see that michelle had some comments for the latter

[08:20:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> sorry.. fluid-4995

[08:21:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o yeah, just reviewing those this morning and will resend that pull

[08:21:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: cool thanks

[08:21:49 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i think 4972 is done, so i've been working on 5009

[08:23:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay.. are we going with jcarousellite?

[08:25:28 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o accessible version of jcarousel that hans improved http://hanshillen.github.io/jqtest/#goto_carousel

[08:25:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> trying that out

[08:25:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> jcarousel lite is also from jquery

[08:28:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay cool.. when you have a chance can you note that on the jira, if it isn't already there.

[08:28:32 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o for sure

[08:28:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> thanks

[08:29:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> cindyli: i sent in a pull request for http://issues.fluidproject.org/browse/FLUID-5031.. I wasn't sure if you were looking at it already.. sorry if you've already started it

[08:40:16 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> Justin_o: not a problem, i started but haven't completed the testing. good to see your pull request on it

[10:06:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled, anastasiac, heidiv, cindyli, yzen: did any of you need help with anything at the moment?

[10:07:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> hey Justin_o i'm having a weird IE8 issue w font icons, if you have a sec to take a look

[10:07:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> not sure it's fixable

[10:07:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: (sad) sure i can take look.. do you have a branch i should check out?

[10:07:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> it seems the font icons aren't updating until you click around/click on them… odd

[10:07:44 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> yep 4995 in my github

[10:07:56 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay… i'll pull that down

[10:08:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> thanks

[10:13:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: how can i reproduce the issue?

[10:13:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o open demo in IE8 and switch theme

[10:14:19 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> notice that reset icon doesn't update, and when closing/opening panel some others aren't updated…until you click on them

[10:14:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> tho i wonder if it's VM weirdness - let me know if it does that for you

[10:16:12 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o does the same w font size as well

[10:20:05 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: sorry.. forgot i needed to run a build to get the themes working correctly.. doing that now..

[10:20:39 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> cool

[10:21:07 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> otherwise, that pull req has been updated Justin_o michelled

[10:23:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: seems there is an issue when you change the fonts

[10:23:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> that is the "text style" option in uio

[10:23:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o so it seems any changes… the font icons are delayed in updating

[10:23:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> anything we could do about it tho? they fix when clicked on

[10:25:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o oh, i see another bug, maybe that's what you mean - when changing font style, the reset icon breaks

[10:25:28 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> and the others. will fix

[10:28:27 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o update...

[10:38:14 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> colinclark hey!

[10:38:55 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> what's up? how was the supercollider conference?

[10:39:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey

[10:39:22 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> oh wait

[10:39:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> let's try #fluid-tech, just because it tends to be a bit quieter

[10:39:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> either is fine

[10:39:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and I hang out in both

[10:40:05 CDT(-0500)] <nanook> colinclark: i'm on #fluid-tech now

[10:43:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: yes, that was the issue i was seeing, thanks for fixing it.. i'll look into the one you spotted now

[10:49:41 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i was trying out the examples from this site http://css-tricks.com/examples/IconFont/ and they seem to have the same problems in IE8

[10:49:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o oh, good idea!

[10:50:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ok… yeah it doesn't feel like soemthing we could solve

[10:50:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> bummer

[10:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yes.. sad

[10:53:22 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac, cindyli, yzen, Justin_o: are you available at 1:00 to task out content simplification?

[10:53:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i'm poking around the web to see if there is a solution somewhere

[10:53:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: yes.. i'm available

[10:53:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> sure

[10:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes, Justin_o

[10:56:05 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> sorry, not Justin_o, michelled (smile)

[10:59:14 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: this might be related to what we are seeing http://andymcfee.com/2012/04/icon-fonts-pseudo-elements-and-ie8/

[11:00:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o exact same problem ya… his solution was to use js instead of :before

[11:01:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> not sure we want to do that

[11:01:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i'd rather avoid it if possible

[11:01:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o i'll document the issue in the jira

[11:01:48 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> feel free to review the pull again

[11:01:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> if you have time

[11:02:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay.. thanks.. i was just trying this with the keyboard, same issue.. but maybe less annoying because it fixes it self with keyboard focus

[11:02:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> right, ya

[11:06:43 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: did you see michelled's comment about the font icon styles being in FatPanelUIOptionsFrame.css?

[11:06:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o yep i moved the header icons to general uio

[11:07:03 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> the prev/next icons are still in fat panel only

[11:07:28 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: okay… thanks

[11:41:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i left a comment on the pull request.. after looking at it. i think we might want to actually put the fonts into a fonts or icons directory

[11:41:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> which could either be a subdirectory of uiOptions or uiOptions/css

[11:42:05 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o agreed! uiOptions/fonts i think is good

[11:42:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> doing that now

[11:46:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: by the way, did you test with IE9?

[11:46:27 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> Bosmon: are you free to chat about the naming and api issues now?

[11:46:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o running through browsers again now - were there issues for ya

[11:46:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> ?

[11:47:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: i just loaded it in IE9 and the font icons are showing up as boxes

[11:47:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidiv> Justin_o ok i'll take a look thanks

[11:47:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: thanks

[11:51:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidiv: also in IE10 they seem to be missing completely

[12:04:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> Justin_o: can we try to clarify what it is we are attempting to name? it might help us in coming up with names.

[12:05:02 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> my take is that we are trying to names these:

[12:05:07 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 1. the empty UIO component

[12:05:08 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 2. the set of out of the box (production worthy?) UIO settings panels

[12:05:09 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 3. the empty UIE component

[12:05:10 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 4. the set of out of the box actions

[12:05:11 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> 5. the model that the integrator has specified and the user has not altered

[12:05:20 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> does that seem right to you?

[12:06:23 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac, Bosmon: have I covered the things we are trying to name for FLUID-4686?

[12:07:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: that's my take for 1-4 not sure about 5 though.. i'd like to get more clarification on what it actually is.

[12:08:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, I think your #5 should be two things, the 'empty' model and the 'out-of-the-box' model, which is not empty

[12:09:31 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: where 'out-of-the-box' means what we ship in Infusion? or what the integrator has specified?

[12:10:29 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, I'm not entirely sure. Bosmon's email describes it as 'the "filled" grade'

[12:12:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac, michelled: there is a grade called fluid.uiOptions.defaultModel.outOfTheBox

[12:12:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right, Justin_o, that's the name for the 'filled' one, and Bosmon pointed out that the naming pattern breaks our other naming patterns, hence the entire thread

[12:29:54 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> fluid-everyone, hi everyone, I'm one of the GSOC students. I'm gonna be working on the Drupal Plugins for Infusion Project

[12:30:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> hi ramil - nice to meet you (smile)

[12:31:14 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> Hi michelled , nice to meet you

[12:32:53 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> hi, ramil, nice to see you here

[12:33:14 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> hi anastasiac, sorry ive been sick the past few days

[12:35:26 CDT(-0500)] <ramil> anastasiac, is everyone subscribed to the mailing list that you emailed me?

[12:35:50 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac, cindyli, Justin_o: want to meet in the collab room?

[12:35:52 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes, we're all on the list

[12:35:58 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> yzen: I'll Skype you

[12:36:23 CDT(-0500)] <yzen> thanks

[12:37:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> michelled: on my way

[12:44:10 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> notes from our last content simplification meeting: http://lists.idrc.ocad.ca/pipermail/fluid-work/2013-April/009026.html

[12:47:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> http://old.nabble.com/uio-content-simplification-to35440461.html

[13:18:24 CDT(-0500)] * Topic is 'This channel is logged – for details see: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IRC+Channel' set by jessm on 07:30:00 CST(-0600)

[13:37:00 CDT(-0500)] * Topic is 'This channel is logged – for details see: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/IRC+Channel' set by jessm on 07:30:00 CST(-0600)

[16:32:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> all looks good, avtar, thanks!

[16:32:45 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> sweeeet

[21:34:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey thealphanerd, nice presentation

[21:34:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in your Current_Faust_Compilation demo, you've got a file:// url, which means I couldn't try it out

[22:08:43 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: I have a few things I need to clean up in the presentation

[22:08:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[22:09:00 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> hows it going?

[22:09:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> good

[22:09:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> how about you?

[22:09:16 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> not too bad

[22:09:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> back in Palo Alto, I guess?

[22:09:19 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> back from korea

[22:09:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[22:09:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> how was NIME?

[22:09:28 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> it was great

[22:09:30 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> met some awesome people

[22:09:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> nice!

[22:09:47 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> met a handful of folks develping web audio stuff

[22:09:55 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I also talked with Hongchan a bit about waax

[22:10:07 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> he let me know that he is going to be interning with Chris Rogers this summer

[22:10:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> nice

[22:10:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Tell him to implement fucking web workers (wink)

[22:12:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Did you meet Charles Roberts at NIME, too?

[22:12:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> He's done some interesting stuff, it looks like

[22:12:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> very impressive

[22:13:46 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I met him too

[22:13:51 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> he won best paper

[22:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> For the one about Gibber?

[22:14:13 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> yup

[22:14:15 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> and interface.js

[22:14:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> bizarre

[22:14:44 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> his ideas are great

[22:14:50 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> but I wasn't crazy about the implementation

[22:15:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is there a difference?

[22:15:04 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> no thatism… non responsive

[22:15:11 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> all class based

[22:15:19 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> he has to hand roll it everytime

[22:15:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that's sort of my point (wink)

[22:15:38 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I am a total convert

[22:15:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> All his widgets are Canvas-based

[22:15:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which is fine

[22:16:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but as you say, non-responsive

[22:16:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> etc.

[22:17:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It was pretty inspiring to hear the SuperCollider community talk about their problems and challenges

[22:17:17 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> well I think canvas can be responsive

[22:17:26 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> but he had to restart to fix interface

[22:17:30 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> if size changed

[22:17:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[22:17:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I wasn't saying Canvas can't be done well

[22:17:49 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> (tongue)

[22:17:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> just that he hadn't done so (tongue)

[22:17:59 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> indeed

[22:18:05 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I talked to him about my problems with canvas

[22:18:10 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> it was actually a funny conversation

[22:18:17 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> he asked why I was using svg

[22:18:25 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> and I said "Because canvas doesn't have a dom"

[22:18:30 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> he responds… "Isn't that a feature"

[22:18:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> wow

[22:19:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm just biting my tongue in this logged channel here (tongue)

[22:21:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There were a couple things in your presentation that I thought you could elaborate

[22:22:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and maybe you did in person

[22:22:10 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> which parts?

[22:22:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the issue of "integers" was one

[22:22:13 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> you can fork it (big grin)

[22:22:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[22:22:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The point isn't that JavaScript doesn't have integers

[22:22:42 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: elaborate

[22:22:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but rather that there is no integer arithmetic

[22:23:01 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> ahhhh

[22:23:03 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I did say that

[22:23:10 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> all numbers are stored as 32 bit floating point

[22:23:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So architecture-specific optimizations like assuming 32-bit integers will wrap when they overflow don't work

[22:23:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which, honestly, doesn't necessarily strike me as a problem

[22:23:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Since there have been, and will be again, architectures where assuming this behaviour isn't valid

[22:23:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> such as a GPU

[22:24:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> apparently old DSP units didn't support it either

[22:24:53 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I switched the line to "Integer Arithmatic"

[22:25:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So that particular Faust .dsp file is just written for an environment where this the default behaviour… where it assumes that when an integer gets larger than 2147483647 or whatever, it'll wrap back down again

[22:26:02 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> ahhhhh

[22:26:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow

[22:26:40 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> did you manage to get integer arithmatic working with asm?

[22:28:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Presumably one has to trust the VM (smile)

[22:28:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I have no idea what kind of overflow behaviour you get--again, presumably whatever the underlying architecture does

[22:30:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I was curious about this statement, "Unfortunately some of the semantics of C++ do not translate perfectly to JavaScript, the unfortunate side effect of moving from an Object Oriented language to a Functional Language."

[22:31:18 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: is asm a vm though by itself???

[22:31:29 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: emscripten by default doesn't automate wrappers

[22:31:38 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> it is easy to break out a function

[22:31:46 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> but a class or a struct is a bit more difficult

[22:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> well, yes

[22:32:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's pretty well just C (smile)

[22:32:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> One likely wouldn't refer to C as a "Functional Language" either

[22:32:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It seems to me less an issue of semantics not translating...

[22:32:51 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> definitely not

[22:33:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> though there are plenty of C++ semantics that wouldn't have equivalents in JavaScript, but that's sort of a separate issue

[22:33:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and more a question of what kind of "bridge" or language bindings are available between C++ and JavaScript in Emscripten

[22:33:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and your experience and sample code makes it clear that the answer is currently "none"

[22:34:00 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> there are some projects

[22:34:12 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> in forks of emscripten

[22:34:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yeah, I saw reference to something coming

[22:34:54 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> brb

[22:35:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess Emscripten is still very raw

[22:42:57 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> and back

[22:43:13 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: I think that I need to go through and look at the way in which some of the larger projects using emscripten is done

[22:43:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do

[22:44:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The other thing I wondered about is why you didn't mention the question of how much of a speed benefit we can expect with asm.js, based on the architecture of Web Audio, etc.

[22:44:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess we haven't had much of a chance to talk about it, what with our travel schedules

[22:44:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I'm increasingly doubtful that asm.js offers terribly much benefit

[22:44:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I suppose we should suffer through trying to port a few more examples to see

[22:45:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I mean, garbage is probably our first enemy

[22:45:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and I've written all of Flocking's unit generators to essentially be garbage-free

[22:45:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> at least until you go swapping one unit generator for another or other much more esoteric things

[22:46:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> my impression is that the VMs are really good at optimizing hot loops

[22:46:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which is what most unit generators tend to be

[22:46:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Types are totally stable

[22:46:36 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> oh yeah

[22:46:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so an engine like V8 is likely going to compile a UGen to the point where it's pretty fast to begin with

[22:46:54 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Hongchan is maybe interested in using flocking to link together his waax modules

[22:47:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, nice

[22:47:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> why is that?

[22:47:11 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> becuase I was talking about it

[22:47:28 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> have may have just been polite about it

[22:47:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[22:47:51 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> brb again

[22:47:53 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> sorry

[22:47:58 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> so much to tlak about though (big grin)

[22:52:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[22:52:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> totally