[08:27:15 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> anastasiac: when we provide code examples in the documentation, do you think it's better to provide actual code? or just generic, non-relatable code? <colinclark>
[08:28:12 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, I think the closer to real-world, the better
[08:28:18 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Ok.
[08:28:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, so long as it's not horribly complicated (as is often the case in the real world) 
[08:28:47 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> sounds good, thanks
[08:28:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> but real is better than "var mySubcomponent = ..."
[08:29:43 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Ok. I was just going to use a bunch of uploader examples, but didn't the documentation to be overly "uploadery"
[08:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, uploader examples are probably just fine
[08:30:33 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> cool
[08:30:44 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> fluid-everyone, good morning, and welcome to the Docs Sprint!
[08:30:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yay!
[08:30:56 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> we've got a planning page on the wiki, at http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+April+8%2C+2011
[08:31:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> where you can find some ideas for areas that need documentation
[08:31:14 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> or feel free to suggest another topic, or ask for ideas
[08:31:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: I have a few different ideas
[08:31:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I'd like your feedback
[08:31:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I have the planning page open
[08:31:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Two ideas that have been on my mind for awhile
[08:32:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy just got 108 on the typing test
[08:32:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i think that means you should give james more documentation to do
[08:32:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. An overview of what makes the Renderer unique, along with side-by-side comparisons with other rendering technologies
[08:32:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sort of a compare and contrast
[08:32:55 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> Justin_o: what's the typing test?
[08:32:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. The overview of IoC I mentioned for the last doc sprint, before I got sick
[08:33:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: You missed our nerdy competition?
[08:33:36 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, those both sound like excellent ideas, and much needed
[08:33:37 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> apparently
[08:33:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: http://www.typingtest.com/
[08:33:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jameswy is top typing dog
[08:34:13 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> have you heard the man play piano? no wonder!
[08:35:02 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, we have a start at an IoC overview, at http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Infusion+IoC (and sub-pages), but it could certainly use improving; not sure if you want to edit, or just start fresh. Starting fresh would be fine - we'd either replace or merge somehow, depending on what you write
[08:35:34 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so jamswy is, then, in a great place to whip up some Infusion docs really fast? 
[08:37:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: ok, I'll take a look
[08:39:02 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I see you've offered to work on the 'creating a component'/'hello world' docs - excellent
[08:39:28 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam is working on some documentation about grades
[08:40:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'm very curious about this "createOnEvent", so I think I'll write something about that
[08:40:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: It's great!
[08:40:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: I really like your Developer Introduction page
[08:40:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i'm glad pages are being written about types of components (grades)
[08:40:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Developer+Introduction+to+Infusion+Framework
[08:40:51 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark oh awesome. does it make sense?
[08:40:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, it's really cool
[08:41:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> If you have time, you should keep growing it
[08:41:11 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i'd like to... yeah cool
[08:41:26 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yes, I've already been directing people to that page
[08:41:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> that's awesome, i'm glad
[08:42:09 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i think more beginner doc is really helpful
[08:42:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Me too
[08:42:42 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> does doc sprinting have an impact on physical fitness?
[08:42:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There's a pretty broad audience of potential users we don't really reach out to
[08:42:58 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i'd like to sprint today
[08:43:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jessm, on mental fitness, perhaps
[08:43:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not only users who are familiar with other frameworks, like, Rails or CakePHP or Django
[08:43:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but also users who have never used something like
[08:43:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> maybe just a bit of jQuery or some PHP and HTML
[08:43:36 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yeah, like me
[08:43:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> the comparison between frameworks approach would be interesting too
[08:44:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: Have you used Smarty or one of those PHP templating engines at all?
[08:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i've used smarty yeah. and i've used...what's the rails templating system called?
[08:45:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess there are a few
[08:45:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Haml is a big and very strange one
[08:45:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Template engines seem to be a dime a dozen
[08:45:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah, liquid
[08:45:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> people competing over whether curly braces are cooler than angle brackets for template tokens
[08:45:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ha
[08:48:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: what are you going to write today?
[08:49:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sirius is contributing his valuable skill of napping on laptops for the Sprint today
[08:50:17 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, cat-napping is always a valuable contribution
[08:50:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure how I can compete with that
[08:54:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: i'm fixin' to think about that
[08:55:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Planning to make a plan?
[08:55:12 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> perpetually
[08:55:58 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, do you want to continue on your work on improving our docs on component options merging?
[08:56:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Do you know if anyone is taking a stab at writing docs for rendererComponent()?
[08:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, do you mean the rendererComponent grade?
[08:58:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That too
[08:58:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How to make a renderer component
[08:58:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, cindyli is starting to work with renderer components; michelled was thinking she could have a look at those docs
[08:58:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok, cool
[08:59:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> awesome, cindyli
[08:59:22 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> we do have some renderer component docs that could use a review: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Renderer-bearing+Components and http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/fluid.initRendererComponent
[08:59:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, do you think you'll have some time to day to work on some documentation?
[08:59:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: could you point at what you'd like me to work on today for the doc sprint.. i'm open to anything
[09:01:16 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac: yes, i can dump out what i've learnt but might be just a small portion of the renderer component
[09:01:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> cindyli, that would be fine. writing about what you've learned is always an excellent way to help you learn it, and more
[09:02:15 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> agree, anastasiac
[09:03:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, thanks for the topic suggestions you posted to the mailing list. I added them to the planning page at http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+April+8%2C+2011 Were you thinking of trying to tackle any of them, or just hoping someone would?
[09:04:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, what have you been working on lately? is anything fresh in your mind? or is there anything you'd like to learn about?
[09:04:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Speaking of that, harriswong
[09:04:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I had a question
[09:04:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Can you elaborate more on what you mean by this question?
[09:04:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "When to use fluid.function_name and when to use fluid.uploader.html5Strategy.function_name?"
[09:05:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is it a question about when to leave functions in the top-level namespace, vs. putting them into a narrower namespace?
[09:06:26 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: anastasiac: any thoughts re: what I can write today?
[09:06:27 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ah, it looks like harris is away from his desk right now, colinclark
[09:06:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok
[09:07:18 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, do you want to continue on your work on improving our docs on component options merging?
[09:07:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: hmm, good question
[09:07:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is there any topic that interests you?
[09:07:44 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: sure - I think they weren't all that bad - could use a section on IoC and options merging
[09:08:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, that would be great - the component references within { } could use some explaining
[09:08:32 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: Just a random idea--some kind of bridging material between our Infusion docs and the design handbook?
[09:08:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "Things to keep in mind while developing with Infusion?"
[09:08:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I dunno
[09:09:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In other words, drawing some connection between coding and designm
[09:09:46 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: hrm, ok
[09:09:58 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> lemme think a tad about that and put some notes together to get started
[09:09:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: What ideas do you have for jessm?
[09:11:06 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, jessm, not sure. you're idea sounds good. perhaps also some "why infusion" docs?
[09:11:15 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> arun197, gsoc_pulkit, pxl9: if there is documentation that you've come across that you feel could be improved, or something that you were trying to find and couldn't, let us know
[09:11:31 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> also, if you felt like it, I'm sure there's docs that could use proof reading
[09:13:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> colinclark: anastasiac: i think i've got some direction... thanks!
[09:14:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It could be neat, jessm
[09:14:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> UX Walkthroughs, user testing, etc. might be good connections
[09:16:18 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac i'd like to suggest a page called "Contributing a Component"... to add to the list. i.e how to change your component so it fits into the dir structure or if there's a contribution space that's being created at some point...
[09:17:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, that's a great idea.
[09:17:17 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> do you want to draft a start?
[09:18:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> prob not today... but i've already referenced it in my creating a component page hehe. i'm not sure what we have set up for that - we talked about a contribution space specifically for fss, not sure if we want the same approach for components etc as well?
[09:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> would contributed components go directly into the infusion download or would they be available elsewhere?
[09:20:27 CDT(-0500)] <arun197> michelled: Sure! Would let you know if there is any. But as far as my readings,documentation is pretty much good and I could understand the framework pretty well.
[09:20:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: We were thinking that there would be a kind of "showcase" section in the Builder
[09:20:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's what interesting about the Builder
[09:21:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ah, right
[09:21:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it blurs the definition of "what we ship"
[09:21:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, we could have a separate page or section in the Builder
[09:21:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> where we show off other extensions to Infusion
[09:21:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and let people build them into their custom version
[09:21:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Justin_o: I haven't really thought through how this will relate to the "Fluid Labs" idea I've been mumbling about
[09:21:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess they're distinct things
[09:22:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but maybe not
[09:22:17 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i think you guys were talking about getting rid of a .zip available on the site, and requiring everyone to use builder? not sure if i like that idea... when i go to a site to download something i just want to click "download" asap and get all the stuff. know what i mean? but this makes it harder to figure out what stuff would be included
[09:23:47 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> colinclark: yura_ : could one of you quickly take a look at the little component doc that I just wrote? http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/FLUID+Little+Component
[09:24:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i really like "plugin" sections of a software site... a library you can browse through and download things to try, understanding they're user-contributed and the code might be iffy, but going by reviews and documentation. i could see a user contributed components / fss bits being similar
[09:24:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: Would you be satisfied by going to the builder and clicking "Download All?"
[09:24:14 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> colinclark: i think maybe how it works with the builder would be pretty similar.. although they might be categorized differently.. i guess it would also depend on what it is that is in the lab... Does code work in the "Fluid Labs" need to use Infusion?
[09:24:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark maybe. it makes me have to understand what a builder is first...
[09:25:01 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> but i could see if a "download" link on the site fwd'd me to the builder's download all thing, that'd be just fine
[09:25:14 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: Sure, I can take the fluid.demand and default one.
[09:25:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Yep, that's definitely possible
[09:25:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> heidi_: users are also able to go to github and download a zip or tar their.. not as easy as a zip on the wiki, but maybe actually a more common place for users to go to
[09:25:30 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, excellent, thanks
[09:25:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We could certainly link to those, too
[09:25:47 CDT(-0500)] <yura_> mlam: looks good
[09:25:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: I think your point is a good one--people shouldn't have to understand what all the pieces of Infusion are before they get it for the first time
[09:26:00 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> Justin_o yeah i think as long as there's a clear, fast path to "get it now, without me having to think about how or what"
[09:26:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in that case, they just want to see what we've got and play around with it
[09:26:26 CDT(-0500)] <yura_> mlam: i like the 2 different examples
[09:26:41 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, the sprint planning page has links to what we already have for demands, you could start with that
[09:26:43 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yep once they get into actually developing with it, that would prob inspire interest in playing with the builder and tweaking
[09:26:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> mlam: Minor editing details
[09:26:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We're mixed-case Fluid
[09:26:56 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> yura_: cool, thanks. I'll soon create a page about grades to link to the component types so that people understand what i mean when I"m referring to grades
[09:27:03 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> colinclark: oops, ok
[09:27:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: Do you have a convention for naming these kinds of pages? (mlam's page)
[09:27:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> mlam: tiny, tiny details
[09:27:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> If I was less of a nerd, I would have said "this is awesome!" first, before pointing out stupid details
[09:27:49 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> haha, all the details matter
[09:27:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess the other thing is that I've never really liked the term "that-ist"
[09:27:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We used it all over the place in the documentation
[09:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: I think I was leaning towards to "putting them into a narrower namespace"
[09:28:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it's sort of a joke
[09:28:14 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, mlam: re naming conventions: we're going to have one-page-per-function, with the function name as the page name, so this page could just be called "fluid.initLittleComponent"; a general page could just be called Component Grades, or something
[09:28:17 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: okay thanks!
[09:28:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> harriswong: can you elaborate?
[09:28:29 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ok, cool anastasiac
[09:28:47 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> colinclark: should we stop using "that-ist" in our documentation?
[09:30:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> mlam: I think we should
[09:30:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure if we have a satisfying term for it
[09:30:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but speaking of nerdy, it's pretty nerdy
[09:30:48 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ok, i'm good with that. It's a strange word for people aren't familiar with crockford.
[09:31:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Even Crockford doesn't use the term--he calls it "the module pattern" or something like that
[09:32:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which might be sort of confusing, too
[09:32:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I had briefly tried to call them "units"
[09:32:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Which seems equally unenlightening
[09:32:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: Any thoughts?
[09:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> what is that-ist again?
[09:36:52 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> sorry, I was distracted - I'm catching up now
[09:37:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Objects with methods that are permanently bound to themselves
[09:37:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Meaning, in JavaScript, a method is just a properly on an object
[09:37:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> like
[09:37:47 CDT(-0500)]
[09:37:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but the language is sort of strange
[09:38:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in that you can do this
[09:38:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> var myFoo = object.doFoo;
[09:38:14 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I'd rather not invent new terminology so I suppose we could follow Crockford once again and call it a module
[09:38:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> see how I'm not invoking the function there
[09:38:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> just assigning it to a variable
[09:38:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then I can invoke it later
[09:38:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> myFoo()
[09:38:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and in ordinary JavaScript, the doFoo() method will forget what object it was attached to
[09:39:05 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> so it's an object that has a property that is a function
[09:39:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The "this" reference will be something else, or undefined
[09:39:06 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> ?
[09:39:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In short, it's an objects whose methods are permanently attached to it
[09:39:26 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: For instance, in HTML5UploaderSupport.js, line 142, fluid.uploader.html5strategy.remote, and inside you will see that.stop(), and fluid.initDependents(that). Question would be why isn't it fluid.uploader.html5strategy.remote.stop but instead, it's that.stop; and not fluid.uploader.html5strategy.remote.initDependents().
[09:39:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> not detachable
[09:39:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they always remember where they came from
[09:39:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ahhhhh
[09:39:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> harriswong: That's an interesting question
[09:39:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> there's this page http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/How+to+Define+a+Unit
[09:40:11 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: I guess developers can always trace and learn the code and find out it's a matter of calling different functions in different level of namespace..
[09:40:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> You're asking about the difference between free functions and instance methods
[09:40:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> When to make some behaviour part of an object, and when to leave it on its own
[09:40:51 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: yes!
[09:41:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's a good question
[09:41:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think someone should definitely take a stab at answering it
[09:41:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I could try, if things go well today
[09:41:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: So we're essentially saying all components are modules
[09:42:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Any object with a "method" is a module, in our world
[09:42:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Is that right?
[09:42:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: sorry.. missed your reply from a while ago
[09:43:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> I've been looking into FSS a bit, and talked to cindy about some render stuff recently.. that's about it
[09:43:40 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> colinclark: yes - but I agree that module isn't a great word
[09:43:43 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, do you know anything about event boiling, or the instantiator? if not, do you want to learn?
[09:43:49 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> neither is component as we've seen again and again
[09:43:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled: It's better than unit 
[09:43:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm such a unit for coming up with that name
[09:44:06 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> lol
[09:45:18 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> in a way I find 'that' clearest. It at least makes it clear that we are talking about something particular here that is not a common programming term
[09:45:29 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> it stops people and makes the dig a bit to figure it out
[09:45:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i don't know anything, but would be willing to learn.. do you have a preference for which to start with
[09:45:33 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, it sounds like instantiator docs are not quite a priority right now (it's an "advanced" technique), so don't worry about that
[09:45:56 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> maybe what we really require is a really good glossary definition of 'that' and then link all references of 'that' to it
[09:46:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, Bosmon2 started the docs on event injection and boiling, but only did the injection part, and nothing yet on boiling
[09:46:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Event+injection+and+boiling
[09:49:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> mlam: What do you think, regarding "that-ism"?
[09:50:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> michelled's argument is that going with Crockford's term might at least be vaguely recognizable
[09:50:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> to people who have seen his website or read his book, at least
[09:50:25 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> It's a really funny word.....even after seeing "that" for 7 months
[09:50:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[09:50:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We could have called it "self"
[09:50:39 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> haha
[09:50:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> That's the keyword Python uses
[09:50:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "me"
[09:50:51 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure any real languages use "me"
[09:50:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "that" was always kind of a joke
[09:51:17 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> at least we didn't call it CATTT
[09:51:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> But the point of what I was trying awkwardly to explain to heidi_ about "this"...
[09:51:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> is that it's actively broken
[09:51:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The "this" keyword is not what it seems to be
[09:51:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in that it changes
[09:51:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> having a stable pointer to yourself is essential to making sure your objects always work
[09:52:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks.. i'll start looking at that..
[09:52:35 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: "in that it changes" as in that "that" or just that...
[09:52:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[09:52:47 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> colinclark: ignore me
[09:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: do you know if it's actually been implemented yet?
[09:52:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "this" changes
[09:52:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "that" is forever stable
[09:53:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and "me," well, that's just a weird name
[09:53:19 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, there's code in the codebase, if that's what you mean. I'm pretty sure there are tests for it
[09:53:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, collectionspace might use it, but I'm just guessing there
[09:55:13 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> It's really tough to find a name for "that"....but if we had to pick today, I would side with michelled and follow crockford since we are using his methodologies
[10:00:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Ok
[10:00:33 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: perhaps silly question, but once i have some ideas together, where should i be putting them?
[10:00:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Let's stick with the term "module," then, in our documentation, mlam
[10:00:54 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ok, sounds good.
[10:00:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In code, "that" is reasonably sensible and fairly short
[10:01:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jessm, for now, feel free to just create a sub-page of the docs sprint planning page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Docs+Sprint+April+8%2C+2011 We can easily move things to an appropriate place later, once we know what we have. make sense?
[10:02:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: thanks.. i'll take a look at that
[10:03:29 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: roger that, thanks!
[10:15:24 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac how do i delete a page attachment?
[10:15:49 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I think if you "view attachments", there's a delete link next to the attachment name
[10:15:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: on the wiki? you go to the attachments page
[10:16:14 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> i'm there but not seeing a delete option
[10:16:34 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> permission issue maybe?
[10:21:05 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: page?
[10:21:46 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jessm http://wiki.fluidproject.org/pages/viewpageattachments.action?pageId=23562588
[10:22:43 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: i see remove on the far right of each files row
[10:22:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: are you logged in?
[10:23:15 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jessm yes i am, i just have a "properties" link. can you delete the second screenshot for me? 
[10:23:39 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> heidi_: done
[10:23:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> tanks
[10:23:44 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i hope i got the right "second"
[10:24:16 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> yep you did
[10:24:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I'm checking permissions for you, to fix this
[10:24:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool thanks
[10:25:17 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o
[10:25:40 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i wanted to apply for gsoc for making skin for CMS using FSS
[10:25:45 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark i'll return your "the good parts" book next week. sorry about the wait. using it today, it's great.
[10:25:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> no worries
[10:25:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've read it more than enough
[10:26:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> keep it as long as it's helpful for you
[10:26:04 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i know its late, i had been not well and am still writing the application
[10:26:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> thanks
[10:26:14 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I think I've given you permissions to remove attachements. let me know if you still don't see the 'delete' link on an attachments page
[10:26:35 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac i see a remove now - thanks!
[10:26:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, np - use your new powers carefully
[10:26:57 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> k buwahaha
[10:27:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: hello
[10:28:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hope you're feeling better
[10:28:49 CDT(-0500)] <anky> ya i am to an extent
[10:35:48 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i wanted to know that in my report, i want to work on mediawiki and wordpress, and work on drupal if time permits
[10:36:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky> so should i mention Drupal in the title or should i mention it seperately
[10:50:00 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o ^
[10:50:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: sorry.. had to run off for a quick meeting
[10:50:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> just got back
[10:50:28 CDT(-0500)] <anky> you dont have to be sorry
[10:50:31 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i m jus a lil tensed
[10:51:11 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: i think it doesn't matter about mentioning drupal in the title
[10:51:43 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i m not too sure about me being able to complete the drupal theming
[10:52:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: that's no problem.. to be clear you don't have to implement this for all of those suggested CMS's
[10:52:31 CDT(-0500)] <anky> ok, thanks
[10:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: have you had a chance to read up on fss and ui options at all?
[10:53:16 CDT(-0500)] <anky> ya i read about it
[10:53:34 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i was fine for 2-3 days in middle, when i mailed you also
[10:53:58 CDT(-0500)] <anky> have read the basic structure, layout of files in FSS
[10:54:08 CDT(-0500)] <anky> havent read quite about UI options
[10:54:24 CDT(-0500)] <anky> and wen through wordpress and mediawiki theming
[10:55:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: cool.. just to let you know, if you didn't see this, we are actually currently working on updating UI Options. It will come out with our 1.4 release which is scheduled for around the beginning of May
[10:55:48 CDT(-0500)] <anky> ok, i havent seen it
[10:56:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: here's a mockup of it
[10:56:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/User+interface+options+mocked+up+in+Inclusive+Learning+Handbook
[10:59:44 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i would just go through it, am working on the proposal also side by side
[11:00:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: cool.. feel free to ping me again if you have anything else you'd like to chat about, and good luck with the proposal
[11:25:04 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: Should I make a FAQ page and link to the Fluid specification?
[11:26:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, I did start a FAQ page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Infusion+FAQ Feel free to add links to it
[11:26:33 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: Okay. Or should I edit existing pages? or add more to it when necessarily?
[11:27:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, feel free to edit/update/correct/add to any existing documentation
[11:27:32 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: okay.
[11:28:04 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: I will add it to the FAQ + add/edit/update/correct if I have to then. Thanks.
[11:28:14 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks
[11:44:59 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @Justin_o i am done with the 1st draft of the report, can i mail it to you so that you can review it and suggest any changes please ?
[11:45:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: sure
[11:48:02 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> mailed it
[11:52:13 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, if you have a moment, would you be willing to review this page? (it's short) http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Controlling+The+Timing+of+Subcomponent+Creation Did I get it right? Is there anything else I should mention?
[11:52:51 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> sure, I'll take a look at it
[11:52:55 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks
[11:52:58 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @Justin_o wen through the new mockup, actually had seen it before, through mailing list or archives, just did not remember it
[11:57:32 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: looks good to me - it's nice and clear
[11:58:50 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> thanks, michelled - I know you're busy, I appreciate the time
[11:58:57 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> np
[12:00:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: oh that's good that you are following the list
[12:01:48 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> is there a specific reason for using black-yellow combination ?
[12:04:00 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> i mean, is there any study or research behind it ?
[12:11:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jameswy: you might be able to explain that
[12:15:35 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @Justin_o i hope you have got the mail ?
[12:17:59 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> Hi folks
[12:17:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: yep.. reading through it thanks
[12:18:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: was just in a meeting with jameswy, when he's finished up he'll reply about the various contrasts as well
[12:18:58 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> ok. thanks
[12:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> has anybody ever looked at Universal Subtitles?
[12:21:55 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> i have
[12:24:00 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and?
[12:24:23 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> the project is quite hard to find no? like the doc etc
[12:25:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @lahabana yes it is, the link is nowhere given, although i did find it
[12:25:13 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> and is it possible to style the subtitles?
[12:25:22 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> can you share?
[12:26:21 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> cause it's easy to find the git hub but after it's quite of a treck
[12:27:57 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anky_: Yep, there's a history of research behind the colour contrast choices. There's about a four or five common well-used contrast schemes that help people read easier, and another half-dozen or so that are less-used. Every individual has their own preference, but people tend to gravitate toward that dozen or so.
[12:28:35 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @lahabana http://www.universalsubtitles.org/api/1.0/documentation/
[12:28:56 CDT(-0500)] <lahabana> cheers loads
[12:29:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @jameswy do u have any link to any such study ?
[12:34:30 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anky_: There's a few studies on the first few pages related to it here: http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=readability+colour&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
[12:34:53 CDT(-0500)] <jameswy> anky_: there's one in particular by IBM Research that I was trying to find for you, but I can't seem to find it.
[12:37:12 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @jameswy i would try to find it
[12:37:18 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @thanks
[12:40:46 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: i just finished reading through your proposal. I think one of your links is broken http://techbracket.net/
[12:41:03 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> it would be up
[12:41:14 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> we are transferring the hosting from one server to another
[12:41:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: okay..
[12:42:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: you may also want to talk more abou the theme of "One Size Fits One"
[12:42:17 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> do you know what that is refering to?
[12:42:37 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> Justin_o: any changes or suggestions?
[12:43:20 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> @Justin_o partly
[12:44:33 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> it talks about customization for every individual
[12:44:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: yes
[12:45:10 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> i would add that in it
[12:45:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: jameswy and other might have some more to say about this, but I'll try to explain a bit. It's not really possible to make something that will work perfectly for everyone. Instead, the user has the options con customize and configure the interface to their needs.
[12:46:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> ya with options we can get try and get it as close to the user as possible
[12:46:25 CDT(-0500)] <anky_> ofcourse we cant make it completely one-one relationship
[12:46:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: also if you have any thoughts to how the design might look, it would be nice to see some potential mock ups.. i understand that you may not have time for this though
[12:47:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: yes.. the user should have the freedom to say what they want..
[12:49:57 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, am I remembering correctly that you're working on a page describing component grades in general? or were you focusing on describing the particular grades individually?
[12:50:43 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> I think grades in general, then was thinking I'd list the available grades which would then link to the component pages that I'm building?
[12:50:48 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> anastasiac: ^^
[12:51:23 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, sounds good, just checking. I'm looking through the topics list for what to work on next, and I don't want to start on something you're already working on
[12:51:54 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Oh ok.
[12:52:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky_: a couple more things.. you might want to talk about what platforms you plan to have this working for. This is our browser support chart http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Support I don't expect you to have resource s to test across all of those configurations but I'd be interested in knowing what you will be expecting it to work with
[12:52:59 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o got disconnected, i don think that i would be able to give the mock-ups as i haven done work on them, and rushing through them would not do justice to the design
[12:53:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: okay.. that's fine.. I understand there isn't enough time at the moment
[12:53:58 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o i actually do have the resources to test it through all the options, i have a mac
[12:54:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> do you have any current exmamples of some pages you've styled
[12:54:11 CDT(-0500)] <anky> and also win
[12:54:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> maybe you can talk about those
[12:54:22 CDT(-0500)] <anky> ya i would just include them
[12:55:01 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: I guess at this point don't forget to submit your proposal
[12:55:38 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o i would be exteremely cautious about that
[12:56:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o>
[13:05:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky> do u think my Milestones and Deliverables are fine ?
[13:06:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: i'll read it over again
[13:10:01 CDT(-0500)] <anky> thanks a lot Justin_o
[13:25:39 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o submitted the application, would make changes to it now
[13:25:44 CDT(-0500)] <anky> just to be on the safer side
[13:25:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: that's smart
[13:26:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> sorry i'm taking a bit of time here.. just finishing up some other work
[13:26:29 CDT(-0500)] <anky> its ok, i still have 30 mins.
[13:26:39 CDT(-0500)] <anky> and i do understand you have a lot of other works also
[13:29:56 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasia are we using the word methods or functions in documentation... or do we acknowledge a difference between the two? etc
[13:30:02 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> anastasiac
[13:30:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, there is not difference between the two. As to what we should call them...
[13:30:42 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> just noticed the API is using methods
[13:32:32 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> heidi_, I'm honestly not sure. We should try to aim for consistency, but I'm not sure what the arguments for one over the other might be
[13:33:12 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, any thoughts on referring "functions" vs "methods"? Are they, in fact, the same, and if so, which word should we try to standardize, and if not, what's the diff??
[13:33:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: i think in general the timeline is fine.. although you might want to incorporate at least some testing along side development. Also it might be a good idea to solicit feedback on your designs before you move on to the implementation
[13:33:45 CDT(-0500)] <anky> i would do the testing with the development
[13:33:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Functions and methods are definitely not the same, and we should be clear to distinguish them in our documentation
[13:33:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Anyone care to describe how a method is different from a function?
[13:34:05 CDT(-0500)] <anky> the other time was for the final product testing, although i would specify it clearly
[13:34:18 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: thanks.. i figured it's probably a given, but it might be good to mention it
[13:36:08 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> colinclark, heidi_: a method is a function that is "owned" by an object. A method is a function, but a function is not necessarily a method
[13:36:10 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> colinclark methods are specific to functions within an object?
[13:36:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah
[13:36:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So methods are bound to a context
[13:36:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> The are invoked in the context of a particular object instance
[13:37:04 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> okay that makes sense. so i suppose it'd be best to call 'em methods in doc
[13:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so functions on a component are methods, whereas many of our free-floating framework functions are functions (e.g. fluid.defaults())
[13:37:12 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> when talking about a component's functions
[13:37:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anastasiac: yep
[13:37:20 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> makes sense
[13:37:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> A free function isn't invoked in any context
[13:37:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they're just global
[13:37:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So, random example
[13:37:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> fluid.each() doesn't relate to a particular object
[13:38:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> It just takes arguments--it doesn't need to access any shared state
[13:38:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> objects are typically used to share state
[13:38:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Whereas, randomly
[13:38:53 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Uploader's .start() method is a method
[13:39:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it's invoked in the context of a particular Uploader
[13:39:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and accesses shared state on that Uploader instance--for example, it might look at the files that were added into the queue by a different method
[13:39:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> etc.
[13:39:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> So yes, the framework is virtually all stateless
[13:39:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they're just free functions, not methods
[13:39:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anything attached to a "that" is a method
[13:40:33 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> cool, thanks colinclark ...gosh so rusty with this stuff. it's coming back ha
[13:40:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> JavaScript makes it a bit more complicated, I guess
[13:40:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In Java, there are no fuctions
[13:40:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> everything is a method
[13:41:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Meaning, you can't have some little bit of behaviour--it has to be attached to an object of some kind
[13:41:19 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> C++ definitely has this distinction between free functions and methods
[13:41:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> PHP does too
[13:41:52 CDT(-0500)] <anky> @Justin_o i have sent you the modified application with changes highlighted
[13:42:30 CDT(-0500)] <anky> Justin_o: if you have time, then go through it
[13:43:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: did you e-mail it to me or post it
[13:44:19 CDT(-0500)] <anky> mailed it to you
[13:44:39 CDT(-0500)] <anky> posted it before only, have been making changes to the posted application also
[13:47:48 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> anastasiac, heidi_: do both of you have time to chat about API page design?
[13:48:53 CDT(-0500)] <heidi_> jhung yep
[13:50:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jhung, sure - let me launch skype
[13:54:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> heidi_: I guess functions in PHP these days are an awful lot like JavaScript in terms of their behavior: http://www.php.net/manual/en/functions.anonymous.php
[13:59:14 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> checkin'in on the doc sprint
[13:59:48 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> i'm continuing to sprint – writing some silly stuff, but maybe it'll be useful for someone? http://wiki.fluidproject.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=24936908
[14:06:11 CDT(-0500)] <arun197> colinclark: Hi! Had a look at my final proposal?
[14:09:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> arun197: hi
[14:09:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes
[14:09:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks for sending it along
[14:09:57 CDT(-0500)] <arun197> colinclark: No problem. Thanks
[14:10:40 CDT(-0500)] <arun197> I have a doubt. I ll have to mail this to info@atutor.ca. Can I attach the pdf and send them?
[14:11:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Sure
[14:12:18 CDT(-0500)] <arun197> fine
[14:15:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool
[14:17:52 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ping athena
[14:21:57 CDT(-0500)] <anky> hey Justin_o, got to go for dinner, would mail you with further details and updates on mockups
[14:22:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: thanks
[14:23:23 CDT(-0500)] <anky> jameswy: please let me know if you find that IBM paper, i could not find it right now
[14:23:44 CDT(-0500)] <anky> Justin_o: i should thank you, you got back to me so quickly on the application
[14:24:07 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> ping harriswong
[14:24:09 CDT(-0500)] <anky> Justin_o: thanks and i would get back for your help soon
[14:24:23 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> jhung: hello.
[14:24:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anky: no problem.. thanks for the application
[14:24:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> and good luck
[14:24:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> harriswong: Do you have 15 - 20 minutes to take a look at a design?
[14:26:33 CDT(-0500)] <anky> Justin_o: thanks a lot
[14:27:12 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> jhung: I think I can multi-task that, would love to see the design!
[14:28:40 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> harriswong: http://bit.ly/h2JQdK
[14:29:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> harriswong: maybe you can look at it now and we can chat on skype at 4p?
[14:29:58 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: I have added a FAQ page here for "What's fluid.demand()". : http://wiki.fluidproject.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=24936994. I think the specification explained pretty much what i needed to know, and it provided links to other materials that I needed to know such as "context". The only thing that I didn't know and had to search it up was "EL".
[14:30:13 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> jhung: sure. is there anything I should focus on?
[14:30:37 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, thanks! I'll have a look
[14:30:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> harriswong: structure and organization, elements that works / doesn't work well, and anything missing or lacking.
[14:36:05 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: i figured it would be better to point developers to the actual docs rather than to summarize everything on the FAQ page. Thus I have answered the question briefly and provided links to the actual documentation/specification. Please let me know if more details are required, I will then add them in. Thanks.
[14:36:27 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> jhung: will do!
[14:36:33 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, yes, I think that's the right approach: overview, with links to detailed information
[14:40:03 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, you're back! good timing. got a minute?
[14:40:25 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> i'm back , but only for about 20 mins.....i have to head back to the car shop 
[14:40:31 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> but fire away
[14:40:32 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> bleck
[14:40:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> my question is about argumentMap
[14:40:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> uploader is the only component that uses it yet
[14:40:54 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so I'm hoping you can help me understand what it's about
[14:41:21 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> the argumentMap is needed to indicate which argument being passed through IoC is the options
[14:41:43 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> else , there would be no way of figuring out which argument contains the options to merge
[14:42:07 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok, so argument map is only for options?
[14:42:17 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> and let me dig up some line numbers that confuse me...
[14:42:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> first: is argumentMap 0-based, mlam?
[14:42:51 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> I'm not sure if it's ONLY for options, but I know that a big importance of the argumentsMap is for the options
[14:43:16 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> anastasiac: yes , 0 is the first value....treat it as an array i suppose
[14:43:18 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> HTML5UploaderSupport.js, line 172, and line 142
[14:44:05 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> yes, so in line 172, you're telling the framework that the 3rd argument is going to be the options
[14:44:11 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> line 172 seems to say options is the third argument, but line on line 142 it looks like the second
[14:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> what am I not getting?
[14:46:30 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> so at line 170, you'll see that the fluid.uploader.html5Strategy.remote component is given a grade of an evented component
[14:47:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right...
[14:48:05 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> so, if you go to the defaults block of fluid.eventedComponent in line 1007 of Fluid.js, you'll see that an evented component is actually a little component with the addition of a mergePolicy
[14:48:12 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> right
[14:49:25 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> so looking at the function fluid.initLIttleComponent, line 1223, the 3rd option is an options argument for backwards compatibility
[14:50:16 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> so the arguments map actually has no relation to the actual creator function signature?
[14:50:23 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam: ^
[14:50:46 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> it's only related to the framework component intialization function?
[14:50:58 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Yes, I believe so. It's only duty is to indicate the argument order
[14:51:09 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> yura_: pls correct me if i'm wrong ^^^
[14:51:10 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> but not the argument order of the component creator function
[14:51:28 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> yura_ is getting coffee, and I didn't see any use of argument map in CSpace
[14:52:39 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, if the argument map is not related to the arguments to the creator function, but only to the arguments to the framework initialization function: doesn't the framework know what its own arguments are?
[14:53:22 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> anastasiac: I think the deeper reasoning behind it's intentions are out of range with knowledge with the argumentMaps
[14:54:01 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> ...with my knowledge
[14:54:37 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> ok. hm... I'll check with yura_, maybe he knows. If not, maybe I can get ahold of Bosmon2 some time. he doesn't seem to be around today
[14:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> we need to explain to developers how to use it, so...
[14:56:39 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> Yah, I agree. I remember a brief chat about the argumentsMap in the channel a few weeks back.
[15:03:30 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> anastasiac: I've got to run, but there's a brief note about the argumentMap in this chat: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/fluid-work+IRC+Logs-2011-03-21
[15:03:38 CDT(-0500)] <mlam> I'm not sure if it will help answer your question though
[15:03:47 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> mlam, thanks - I'm just looking through that
[15:15:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> hey jhung
[15:15:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> what's up?
[15:19:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> athena: wondering if you have 15 minutes to spare to look over a design for technical docs?
[15:20:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i'll try my best to, at least
[15:20:25 CDT(-0500)] <athena> though i may have to get back to you on monday
[15:20:40 CDT(-0500)] <athena> there a link?
[15:20:44 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> athena, not a prob. http://bit.ly/h2JQdK
[15:21:00 CDT(-0500)] <athena> thanks! will try and go over it
[15:21:10 CDT(-0500)] <athena> definitely appreciate the doc work you guys are doing
[15:22:02 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Cool.
[15:22:50 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> It's a team effort for sure... so much documentation, so little time.
[15:23:38 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Maybe you can take a look at that and we can chat about it on Monday? That good athena?
[15:24:25 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that'd be awesome, thanks
[15:24:55 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i'm putting my head in the sand and pretending that my schedule will be reasonable after today
[15:27:17 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> lol good luck
[15:33:20 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> athena: forgot to mention that the design isn't a complete API page. Content is omitted to keep it shorter while conveying enough of the design.
[15:33:34 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok, makes sense!
[15:35:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> anastasiac: i've got some code in as a start to the event boiling. http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/Event+injection+and+boiling
[15:35:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i'll try to finish it up on monday
[15:35:51 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> Justin_o, thanks so much!
[15:45:20 CDT(-0500)] <harriswong> anastasiac: I have added a page here: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=24937041 for fluid.defaults(); i have also updated this page: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/docs/fluid.defaults
[15:46:01 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> harriswong, great - thanks!
[15:49:22 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> fluid-everyone, thanks so much for all the work on the docs today - we got a lot done!
[15:49:31 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I'll email a summary to the list
[15:59:27 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: ?
[16:03:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jessm, I'm here
[16:03:48 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: who evaluates what we've written and decides if it's useful
[16:04:04 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> jessm, the community does!
[16:04:17 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> oh, ok!
[16:04:38 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I had a look at your page - nice!
[16:05:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> jessm: I like it too!
[16:05:59 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> it was my first doc sprint – i was feeling sheepish – thanks for the feedback!
[16:06:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> nice work
[16:06:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> you made more progress than i did
[16:06:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but i'm gonna do mine on monday
[16:06:28 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> advanced doc sprint is monday then
[16:06:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol
[16:07:08 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: oh, i like these doc sprints
[16:07:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> me too
[16:07:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> they're really fun
[16:07:23 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> now i feel as though i get it – next time i'm going to take on even more!
[16:07:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and they seem reasonably productive
[16:07:25 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> excellent! it is fun, I think
[16:07:32 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> even though i don't type as fast as jamesy
[16:07:33 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> I think we got a lot done today
[16:07:45 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> none of us type as fast as jameswy
[16:08:11 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> yay team!
[16:08:18 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> anastasiac: thanks for fearlessly leading
[16:42:35 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> Hello Everyone, my name is Chen. I'm interested in the fluid infusion project in google summer code 2011
[16:44:47 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> i emailed Grey only my resume, i didn't have time to write a detailed project plan yet. but i will do it tonight, is it okay?
[16:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> Justin asked me to drop in here to introduce myself. i'm an undergrads in software engineering from McGill University, Montreal
[16:46:08 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> 4th year
[16:46:23 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> and i have extensive experience in web development
[16:47:15 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> i have experience at javascript. and familiar with html5 and css3
[16:47:39 CDT(-0500)] <ChenBi> i also have used dojo, jquery, gwt before
[20:37:09 CDT(-0500)] <diraol> Hi all, can i talk to someone about GSoC?
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